Liverpool 2022/23: We Go Again

[Jimy Hendrix]

I suspect given the relative condition of the two sides from an injury and fitness standpoint that Spurs are going to grab a late goal this weekend off a gassed Liverpool side. Both sides are hurt but Conte’s obsessiveness will come in to play. Whether it’s a winner, equalizer, or extends a lead, I have no idea, but I think the red shirts will be glorified cones by the 80th minute.

An odd thing that occurred to me is that if you took both teams and look at the combined midfield corps, the two mid-20s endless engine 90min runners that could really make a Klopp press sing are both starting for Spurs and the one deep lying playmaker who could be a Pirlo/Brozovic type for Conte is starting for Liverpool.

 

[SoxFanInCali]

Thanks to not being able to draw an English side or Napoli, there's only 4 possibilities in the CL Round of 16.

Bayern
Benfica
Porto
Real

 

[Dummy Hoy]

I laughed.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Benfica's a load this year too. Schmidt has them rolling. Even more impressive after selling Darwin.

 

[SocrManiac]

Benfica's a load this year too. Schmidt has them rolling. Even more impressive after selling Darwin.

Or… Maybe Darwin was a problem there and is now a problem here…

Kidding, kidding…

Mostly.

 

[67YAZ]

The Captain is available for Spurs, but Milner is out with a concussion. Apparently Boring James is doing well enough for non-contact training.

 

[JayMags71]

Eight years ago today, we played Real at the Bernabeu. This was the line up BRod sent out:


He left Hendo, Sterling, and Stevie G on the bench. How many of these guys make it into the squad today? Can? Skrtel?

Hell, who is that between Makarovic and Lucas?

 

[swiftaw]

Eight years ago today, we played Real at the Bernabeu. This was the line up BRod sent out:
View attachment 57230

He left Hendo, Sterling, and Stevie G on the bench. How many of these guys make it into the squad today? Can? Skrtel?

Hell, who is that between Makarovic and Lucas?

It’s Manquillo, who is currently at Newcastle.

 

[SocrManiac]

Lucas looks like he's resigned to a prostate exam.

 

[JayMags71]

It’s Manquillo, who is currently at Newcastle.

Man, I don’t remember him at all.

 

[swiftaw]

Man, I don’t remember him at all.

If I recall, that was his only season at Liverpool.

 

[JayMags71]

If I recall, that was his only season at Liverpool.

Wiki agrees with you

 

[SocrManiac]

I suspect given the relative condition of the two sides from an injury and fitness standpoint that Spurs are going to grab a late goal this weekend off a gassed Liverpool side. Both sides are hurt but Conte’s obsessiveness will come in to play. Whether it’s a winner, equalizer, or extends a lead, I have no idea, but I think the red shirts will be glorified cones by the 80th minute.

My predictions are about as accurate as the Mirror’s transfer speculation but I’m taking credit for this one, dammit.

 

[SocrManiac]

The Athletic reporting the JV team is about to sack Ralph. Here’s hoping they wait for the WC break. The last thing the Reds need is to face the 18th place team on a managerial bump. They’ll lose 9-0 and we’ll have that to think about for half the winter.

 

[67YAZ]

Konate did yeoman’s work today backing up Trent. Hopefully Konate stays fit and his reliable coverage can help settle TAA? I
Trent is so deep in own his head while defending now - every high diagonal out towards him was like Jarren Duran against the Blhe Jays.

Anyway, I see Varane limped off today. That might open the door for Konate to make it to Qatar. Konate didn’t make the squad in September and France has like 8 or so class CBs, so who knows what Deschamps will do.

 

[pedro1918]

And Liverpool gets Real Madrid in the UCL.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

And Liverpool gets Real Madrid in the UCL.

50/50 for an easy matchup - oh well - look at Bayern who gets PSG

Hopefully Diaz, Jota, Matip and the rest of of the injured are healthy by the time this rolls around.

 

[sodenj5]

FSG put Liverpool up for sale.

https://theathletic.com/3770928/2022/11/07/fsg-liverpool-for-sale/?source=user_shared_article

 

[SocrManiac]

Well, shit.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Fuckity fuckity fuck

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Wow. Will be interesting to see whether it’s the same American investment groups that lost out on Chelsea that get into the action or not.

Jim Ratcliffe would be hilarious just to see the United fan responses. Not sure how well he’d sit with Pool supporters though.

 

[67YAZ]

I look forward to going back on every negative thing I ever said about petro-state ownership.

Reading between the lines, sounds like FSG have a number in mind and are testing to see if the market will meet it. My guess is that it’s in the £3b range.

 

[teddykgb]

Everything I’ve read says FSG are considering new shareholders. Why does that mean they are up for sale? City brought one shareholders from Silver Lake but didn’t sell the club. Is there a more explicit statement of intent to fully sell?

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Everything I’ve read says FSG are considering new shareholders. Why does that mean they are up for sale? City brought one shareholders from Silver Lake but didn’t sell the club. Is there a more explicit statement of intent to fully sell?

Ornstein is usually pretty reliable, him saying “Liverpool have been put up for sale by Fenway Sports Group” sounds a lot more like a full sale then just looking for new shareholders:
View: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1589599834985537547


The article says they won’t sell unless it’s the right offer so maybe nothing happens, but sounds like they are open to bidding for the entire club.

FSG’s statement is also a classic non-denial:
View: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1589600203308298241

 

[SocrManiac]

FSG has done a fantastic job with Moneyball style player evaluation and finding undervalued skill sets. That well eventually runs dry as other clubs get up to speed. I wonder if the writing is on the wall and they have determined only way to compete is to throw massive amounts of money around. That’s not their style (or likely their capability), so it’s time to get out before the club becomes uncompetitive.

 

[Pesky Pole]

So if I win Powerball tonight......

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

So what we need is LFC to be bought by some socially acceptable petro-dollar state - Is that Norway’s music I hear?

 

[67YAZ]

So what we need is LFC to be bought by some socially acceptable petro-dollar state - Is that Norway’s music I hear?

Only if they bring Haaland with them.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

FSG has done a fantastic job with Moneyball style player evaluation and finding undervalued skill sets. That well eventually runs dry as other clubs get up to speed. I wonder if the writing is on the wall and they have determined only way to compete is to throw massive amounts of money around. That’s not their style (or likely their capability), so it’s time to get out before the club becomes uncompetitive.

As a money making enterprise FSG doesn’t exactly rake in the cash - no soccer team does for that matter. So the Sell/Keep tipping point would seem to be growth in the club’s evaluation. If that has stalled (for whatever reason) then it’s time to get out. One suspects SA’s acquisition of Newcastle has triggered the alarm bells that their financial model is no longer tenable.

Edit: when Henry bought the club he publicly stated the reason was FFP .. which would ensure a reasonably level playing field for the super rich clubs (which LFC definitely was not at the time)

Believing UEFA’s lies in 2011 would seem to have been an honest mistake. Fool me once.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

I agree with MJY's take - they thought they could find inefficiencies with FFP as an effective soft cap, that's proven to be toothless, and they are not willing to run the club at the loss required to maintain current resale value. The alternatives for revenue growth (Super League) have been rebuffed.

I hope they are selling the club and not simply selling equity to de-risk, but who knows.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

I know I'm the resident asshole around these parts but I think you guys are missing the simplest answer. FSG bought Liverpool because they figured they could make a bunch of money off of it when they sold it. Right now things are looking a bit dodgy w/r/t Champions League and whatnot so the time has come to cash in when the value is at it's highest. There's nothing more than that IMO. And that's totally fine, you guys have all gotten a lot of joy out of the FSG ownership era.

 

[67YAZ]

Back in May, Forbes valued LFC at £3.86b.

I'll be interested to see how the steady climb in interest rates will reshape the buyer pool from even the Chelsea suitors last spring. The current moment would seem to favor the sovereign wealth types who can stump up cash or otherwise self-finance over the large consortium bids or highly leveraged packages. We'll see. I don't think FSG will much care about the politics or source of funds except to the extent they think public or other EPL owner blowback would scuttle a deal.

A quick look shows LFC carries about £180m in debt owed to FSG, which covers COVID loses, the new training ground as well as completed and ongoing Anfield renovations. Considering the likely final price tag, £180m is a small figure to factor in. This should increase the attractiveness of the club.

 

[Lukiewerle]

delete

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Back in May, Forbes valued LFC at £3.86b.

I'll be interested to see how the steady climb in interest rates will reshape the buyer pool from even the Chelsea suitors last spring. The current moment would seem to favor the sovereign wealth types who can stump up cash or otherwise self-finance over the large consortium bids or highly leveraged packages. We'll see. I don't think FSG will much care about the politics or source of funds except to the extent they think public or other EPL owner blowback would scuttle a deal.

A quick look shows LFC carries about £180m in debt owed to FSG, which covers COVID loses, the new training ground as well as completed and ongoing Anfield renovations. Considering the likely final price tag, £180m is a small figure to factor in. This should increase the attractiveness of the club.

This article suggests possibly £5billion

https://theathletic.com/3771121/2022/11/07/liverpool-fsg-sale-facts/?source=user_shared_article

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

I know I'm the resident asshole around these parts but I think you guys are missing the simplest answer. FSG bought Liverpool because they figured they could make a bunch of money off of it when they sold it. Right now things are looking a bit dodgy w/r/t Champions League and whatnot so the time has come to cash in when the value is at it's highest. There's nothing more than that IMO. And that's totally fine, you guys have all gotten a lot of joy out of the FSG ownership era.

I think that's probably right. Sell high if you can. When you're sitting on a gain of upwards of $3 billion, every day you let it ride you're making a significant financial decision, and there are some warning signs on the horizon about how sustainable the big football clubs' value might be in the short to medium term. Doesn't seem like it was ever for love of the game for Henry, but if they sell they will have left the club in significantly better shape than when they bought it, with some amazing times along the way.

 

[ifmanis5]

Klopp says despite a possible sale he wants to stay.
View: https://twitter.com/AnfieldWatch/status/1590473112365113344
Jürgen Klopp on FSG: "Chelsea got sold. We are looking for investors. It is completely different. As far as I know [FSG] are looking for investors and that makes sense. Whatever happens I am committed to the club." #lfc [paul gorst - liverpool echo]

 

[SocrManiac]

Klopp is already losing the dressing room. Only Bobby followed instructions in the shootout.

 

[67YAZ]

Konate gets the call. Happy for him. I’m more worried about the batshit crazy French locker room messing with his head than an injury.

 

[67YAZ]

Per the Athletic, the FA appealed the decision to fine but not ban Klopp. So now Klopp will serve a 1 game ban against Soton.

 

[SocrManiac]

Correct decision. New Manager vs. No Manager farm team derby this weekend!

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Somehow I’m guessing the pathetic incompetent referring that lead to the Red Card will not addressed with as much fervour

 

[67YAZ]

Mike Gordon stepping back from the day to day in order to focus on the sale.

 

[67YAZ]

Rounding up a few tidbits:

Curtis Jones has a signed a new deal running to 2027.

Billy Hogan is taking on some of the responsibilities Mike Gordon is dropping.

There's a friendly scheduled for Dec 11 with Lyon.

And FSG says there's been lost of interest in...not clear what exactly. They keep using vague language that suggests they could sell the club outright or take on more investors. We'll see.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Julian Ward has given his notice as Sporting Director - leaving at the end of the season.


Julian Ward to leave Liverpool as transfer overhaul considered
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/julian-ward-liverpool-breaking-25594284?utm_source=app

This can’t be good. He’s only been SD for for a few months. Reading the writing on the wall no doubt.

 

[67YAZ]

This is very odd. Hmmmmm.

 

[SocrManiac]

It would have been odd before ManU went up for sale. Now it’s becoming a more cohesive narrative.

We clearly won’t be seeing Jude in January (not that I thought it would really happen anyway).

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

This all seems to revolve around a Mike Gordon stepping away from his day to day duties. Its looking like he was patron of all these guys (Ian Graham , the head of the data analyst department is also leaving.)

the Echo is claiming the Klopp will play a much bigger role in the transfer market. Which , I think is a good thing?

Billy Hogan has Liverpool boost after disappointing Julian Ward decision
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-already-hinted-liverpool-25596596?utm_source=app

 

[SocrManiac]

Saudi Arabia/Qatar AND not state owned? Is there a worse-case scenario?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11473447/Liverpool-enter-talks-Saudi-Arabian-Qatari-consortiums-potential-3BILLION-takeover.html

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Saudi Arabia/Qatar AND not state owned? Is there a worse-case scenario?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11473447/Liverpool-enter-talks-Saudi-Arabian-Qatari-consortiums-potential-3BILLION-takeover.html

So we've got:

Man City - UAE
Newcastle - Saudi's Public Investment Fund

Liverpool going to Qatari or Saudi owner
ManU gets the other?

At least Abromovich is out of the league.

Considering Qatar supposedly spent $220B on the World Cup, it seems like $3B to actually own one of the top clubs in the world is much better investment.

 

[Zomp]

Doesn’t 3 billion seem low?
The rumored united figure is 6-8.