Liverpool 2022/23: We Go Again

Pesky Pole

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James Pearce with a good overview of Liverpool tour of Asia, including the fun tidbit that Elliott got to hang around with the Celtics this spring.
It's nice to see Elliott focus on his fitness and acknowledge he had to lose some weight / did so. He seems poised to be the breakout player this year from the team. He was really firing well with Salah early last season before the horrific injury.

In other news, the Paris police chief who made the call to close gates and tear gas fans at the Champions League final has stepped down.

Paris Police Chief steps down
 

Pesky Pole

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Liverpool beats Leipzig 5-0. Turns out this Nunez guy might be ok after all?


Based on the results from the last few days, looks like LFC, Man City and Charlotte FC will be fighting it out at the top of the Premier League table. And Everton will be relegated to the USL.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So … I saw this rumour on twitter yesterday but didn’t bother reporting it because … transfer rumours. It’s popped up, again today on Football Insider (which I know nothing about) (Via the Echo)

normally this would be easily dismissed , but it makes all kinds of sense.

https://www.footballinsider247.com/liverpool-bellingham-sources-deal/

LFC are supposedly very interested in Bellingham for next summer as Dortmund don’t want to sell. But he’s going to be put up for auction next year with all that entails.

So pulling a Keita transfer seems to solve that .. maybe pay a little extra to get your man and Dortmund gets cost certainty.
 

67YAZ

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So … I saw this rumour on twitter yesterday but didn’t bother reporting it because … transfer rumours. It’s popped up, again today on Football Insider (which I know nothing about) (Via the Echo)

normally this would be easily dismissed , but it makes all kinds of sense.

https://www.footballinsider247.com/liverpool-bellingham-sources-deal/

LFC are supposedly very interested in Bellingham for next summer as Dortmund don’t want to sell. But he’s going to be put up for auction next year with all that entails.

So pulling a Keita transfer seems to solve that .. maybe pay a little extra to get your man and Dortmund gets cost certainty.
Wow. That would be fine business. But the premium will be massive…total fee certainly would exceed Nunez’s. I wonder if the club can amortize the fee over that extra pre-transfer year as a way to stretch FFP hit.
 

teddykgb

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I think someone is going to overpay for Bellingham but there’s no way you get a free run at him. It’s just not in his best interests as you know City, Liverpool, Chelsea, and United will all be there and Dortmund/Bellingham stand to profit considerably from the auction
 

SocrManiac

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I don’t see any chatter about this anywhere else. The Echo is pretty low on the reliability scale. I’d love it to be true but it doesn’t make much sense.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think someone is going to overpay for Bellingham but there’s no way you get a free run at him. It’s just not in his best interests as you know City, Liverpool, Chelsea, and United will all be there and Dortmund/Bellingham stand to profit considerably from the auction
Lots of rumors about Real Madrid as well.
 

SocrManiac

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Jota's importance jumped with Mané's departure and Firmino's advancing years, but he can't seem to stay healthy. Let's hope he does well in a heavy rotation and can be on the pitch when called upon.
 

OCST

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I don’t see any chatter about this anywhere else. The Echo is pretty low on the reliability scale. I’d love it to be true but it doesn’t make much sense.
If there's one thing Reds and Blues agree on it's that the Echo is turd.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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If there's one thing Reds and Blues agree on it's that the Echo is turd.
I think they’ve had a problem since Pearce left for The Athletic. He’s a total homer but a decent jouno.

They like like to have it both ways … breathlessly reporting every transfer link no matter how silly (of which there are dozens and dozens) while at the same time stressing their inside knowledge that it’s all rubbish. Can’t comment on the Blue side but I’m guessing it’s the same.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Martin Tyler managed to say something stupid, or, as he would have it say something stupidly. In a Beeb interview he conjoined Hillsborough and football hooliganism while discussing the birth of the Premier League.

he has since apologized but LFC are not impressed.


Liverpool invite BBC and Sky for Hillsborough clarity talks after Tyler comments
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-hillsborough-martin-tyler-comments-24687542

FWIW I believe Tyler’s explanation of a poorly worded sentence. Given his reputation in the Reds fan base , this may percolate for awhile,
 

SocrManiac

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James Pearce reports Thiago out for 6 weeks. Sigh.
I wonder if they’ll react before the window closes. I doubt it- they had to know they’d lose Thiago at some point and have a plan, but it probably wasn’t a Week 2 implementation.
 

OCST

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Just heard on the Guardian’s football podcast- Trent on the back post is the Death Star’s exhaust port
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I wonder if they’ll react before the window closes. I doubt it- they had to know they’d lose Thiago at some point and have a plan, but it probably wasn’t a Week 2 implementation.
Id be shocked if they move for someone. This was hardly a surprise. Thiago is made of glass and Klopp knows it and plans accordingly. It’s only an issue with both Jones and Keita out - and he’s due back this weekend.
 

67YAZ

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I’m being snarky. It’s clearly a good thing. They must LOVE the kid given he signed a new deal last summer, lost almost an entire year to the broken ankle, and got a new deal now. No doubt, this has also been in the works for a while.
 

67YAZ

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Post match, Klopp mentioned that Bobby is out 6 weeks with a hamstring pull. Add that to Nuñez picking up a multi-match suspension, and the front line is thin.

Plus knocks to Matip, Konate, and Gomez are straining the back line…And, of course, there’s Thiago, Ox, and Jones out from the mid.

Luckily, there’s a full week to prep for United
 

SocrManiac

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Darwin’s red card cannot be beaten hard enough. Klopp needs to absolutely shred him for it and rebuild the pieces.

Two draws by no means concedes the title race. It does start narrowing the error margin pretty significantly.

Fabinho is my biggest worry right now. I don’t think he’s necessarily rusty, but he doesn’t look himself. With Thiago out, there’s a lot riding on Fab’s ability to show up in gaps and generate confusion. He’s not doing it and everything becomes a bit predictable as a result.
 

teddykgb

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As someone who lived through Balotelli the kid is now gonna have every Cb trying to wind him up for weeks now too. So he’s gonna get a crash course on dark arts.

How many of the injured players played in the community shield? Not trolling but the intensity Liverpool displayed that day was way out of normal for that match, wondering if it may have been a case of too much too soon
 

67YAZ

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As someone who lived through Balotelli the kid is now gonna have every Cb trying to wind him up for weeks now too. So he’s gonna get a crash course on dark arts.

How many of the injured players played in the community shield? Not trolling but the intensity Liverpool displayed that day was way out of normal for that match, wondering if it may have been a case of too much too soon
This is a great point - Nunez has shown he can be baited, which is a flaw as bad as being a 5’9” CB. I’d love to see upcoming training session where his teammates try to steel him to all the bullshit. Not sure how ManU is going to stretch Martinez…

don’t think it was the community shield, per se, but the soft tissue problems suggest the preseason was not well calibrated overall. Just a horrible year for this to happen.
 

Pesky Pole

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Post match, Klopp mentioned that Bobby is out 6 weeks with a hamstring pull. Add that to Nuñez picking up a multi-match suspension, and the front line is thin.

Plus knocks to Matip, Konate, and Gomez are straining the back line…And, of course, there’s Thiago, Ox, and Jones out from the mid.

Luckily, there’s a full week to prep for United
Where are you seeing the 6 week Firmino injury? I saw an article this morning at said he should be back to training this week. Given we desperately need him, I hope he's ready.
 

67YAZ

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Where are you seeing the 6 week Firmino injury? I saw an article this morning at said he should be back to training this week. Given we desperately need him, I hope he's ready.
The Athletic, but as I double check it, it might be my misreading. They threw Bobby & Thiago into the same sentence, but only mentioned Thiago’s specter layoff. I transferred that to Firmino.

Agree, having Bobby back this week is huge.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Posted in the weekly game thread by mistake…

Speaking of Elliot , he’s probably the replacement for Nunez - on the RW with Salah moving to the middle. Which is good news for Naby Keita.

Against ManU I’d expect

Allison
Robertson/VVD/Gomez/AA
Keita/Fabinho/Henderson
Diaz/Salah//Elliot

If Matip is fit he starts.

Could also be an opportunity for Carvalho. Maybe at RW ?
 

67YAZ

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Pearce reports that Bobby & Gomez trained in full today, expects both to start against United. Matip did some individual light training, not looking ready for prime time yet.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So .. I suspect we are going to hear a cacophony calling for strengthening … particularly in mid field.

Thiago: out for a month
Ox : out for two months
Jones: no time frame
Keita: where was Keita today ? Klopp just said he was “Out”
Fabinho: don’t know what the issue is but he looks physically incapable of playing
Henderson: healthy but not very good
Milner: ditto
Elliot: looks OK
Carvalho: looked really lively

Not to mention Jota, Konate and Matip being hurt and Nunez suspended.

The Fabinho issue would worry me the most. IIRC he didn’t start in the community shield either?

Do we have a full blown crisis?

Thank god the window is still open.

There have been Keita rumblings all week ..wonder if he’s forcing a transfer?
 

SocrManiac

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Liverpool are absolutely dependent on having a powerful presence in the center of the park. Fabinho allows TAA and Robbo to play farther forward. It changes everything. The press is far more effective. The CB pair (including a VVD that, while fantastic, isn’t who we was before that punk blew his ACL out) gains protection. Fab also creates incredibly timed overloads that are particularly good at making Salah and TAA so lethal

Thiago is, well, Thiago. He’s a quarterback. He becomes a focus that creates space anywhere within 50 yards.

Liverpool can usually get by with one of the two. When they have both they’re the CL-contender. When both go down… There are effective pieces but no way to play the same brand. The midfield instantly loses cohesion, the press breaks down, the wingbacks stat home, and the guys up front are forced to play deeper to come get the ball.

I don’t see how they can find a superstar to fill that void right now. Hell, United probably just snapped up the guy that could have done it, but I’d balk at that price anyway. Frankie De Jong, maybe? Too bad Wini ended up loaned to Roma (not to mention what happened to the poor guy once there).

This doesn’t seem like a fixable personnel problem right now. It feels like a system tweak will be needed, and it’ll be a hell of a testament to Klopp if he can pull it off.
 

Zososoxfan

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Liverpool are absolutely dependent on having a powerful presence in the center of the park. Fabinho allows TAA and Robbo to play farther forward. It changes everything. The press is far more effective. The CB pair (including a VVD that, while fantastic, isn’t who we was before that punk blew his ACL out) gains protection. Fab also creates incredibly timed overloads that are particularly good at making Salah and TAA so lethal

Thiago is, well, Thiago. He’s a quarterback. He becomes a focus that creates space anywhere within 50 yards.

Liverpool can usually get by with one of the two. When they have both they’re the CL-contender. When both go down… There are effective pieces but no way to play the same brand. The midfield instantly loses cohesion, the press breaks down, the wingbacks stat home, and the guys up front are forced to play deeper to come get the ball.

I don’t see how they can find a superstar to fill that void right now. Hell, United probably just snapped up the guy that could have done it, but I’d balk at that price anyway. Frankie De Jong, maybe? Too bad Wini ended up loaned to Roma (not to mention what happened to the poor guy once there).

This doesn’t seem like a fixable personnel problem right now. It feels like a system tweak will be needed, and it’ll be a hell of a testament to Klopp if he can pull it off.
FDJ at Pool would be majestic. I hope for the player's sake this happens, although I'll miss rooting for him.
 

67YAZ

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It’s hard to tell what’s been going on with Fabian Ruiz to PSG, but Ruiz profiles as a perfect fit for Liverpool’s midfield.
 

67YAZ

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The other 2 names bouncing around today are Brighton’s Caciedo and Milan’s Bennacer.

Rumor has it that Bennacer recently rejected a new contract, but Milan don’t seem inclined to move him with a congested season ahead and Bennacer’s value down after a disappointing final leg to last season. He has 2 years left to run, and Maldini let fly that he’s preparing a new contract proposal. I don’t think this one gets done despite Bennacer profiling as a strong fit for Klopp’s system.

Caciedo looks like a blossoming star, but I also see a player that Klopp would really need to mold. In other words, he wouldn't solve the short term problem, but would be a nice long term investment. Caciedo still has 3 years to run on his deal, but is only banking £3,500/week. My guess is that his agent will turn all this transfer interest into a nice raise for the the player, which also has the benefit of letting Potter further develop Caciedo.
 
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SocrManiac

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I’m struggling to pull up previous years’ average position m. Here’s the United match:
54589

Bobby and Milner share the 7 dot. That’s not ideal. Milner was essentially useless while Bobby was probably the Pool MOTM.

When Fab is in and on his game, TAA and Robbo are further forward by the diameter of their marker. It’s striking to see.

Now, here is why Hendo can’t replace Fab. Here’s Henderson yesterday against Fabinho in the 4-0 against United last year.

F6237340-8302-44CC-B7F2-CD9D76FF3CF3.jpeg
3E349A38-CF8F-4A96-8D3D-297FA0E63ADC.jpeg

Fab somehow both screens the CB pair more effectively and is more involved in the attack. The dropoff is massive.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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The news continues to worsen. The Echo is reporting Naby Keita is undergoing a scan for a muscle injury. That sounds like a month on the sidelines to me.

The Liverpool press have been strangely silent on Fabinho’s lack of game time and, to many eyes hearabouts, abysmal form when he has played. Which is odd given they have been baying for a new midfielder all summer. Even watching him warm up before the second half was painful.
 

67YAZ

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The FDJ rumors are out in force today. I don’t think it happens for 2 reasons:

first, FDJ can’t seem to get a satisfactory agreement on his deferred wages

second, his likely wages would complicate Liverpools new wage structure.

I think the most likely candidate is Florian Neuhaus since he’s been linked forever and it sounds of if Liverpool and Gladbach have had conversations stretching back 2 years or so. This could come together quickly, but Gladbach will drive a very hard bargain given all the leverage in the situation.

In the end, I don’t think we are seeing anyone new.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I guess the question is - exactly what kind of mid do they need? Given the more likeky of the rumours - The guy who went to Madrid who’s name I won’t attempt to spell and Bellingham - they want a complete box to box guy. FDJ probably is that guy - but the wages are probably prohibitive , and it would rule out Bellingham.

Speaking of which - basing a two year transfer strategy on getting a guy who’s going to be in a huge bidding war seems precarious. Unless they already have an under the table agreement in place (please please please).

Today’s rumour is Atletico’s Marcus Llorente . Yesterday’s rumour was PSG’s Paredes - but he seems to be going to Juventus. He’s hurt all the time too. He would have fit right in.

And Youri Tielemans has indicated a willingness to join Liverpool.
 

SocrManiac

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I haven’t seen any rumors from any source that deserves the attention. That sort of fits the Liverpool model- when they make a big swoop it’s often a surprise.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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The worst part of this is that I was successfully completely ignoring the daily cascade of links, no matter how silly. Keita‘s injury seems to kickstarted a transfer into the realm of possibility, if still unlikely. As there’s been no update on Keita I’m starting to think it’s serious and Liverpool aren’t publicizing the fact as they are in the market.
 

SocrManiac

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I suspect the comments from the Keita camp kickstarted the fans’ ire. Coupled with poor performance from the midfield and the unending injury list and we’re all panicking. The media is just leveraging that for clicks.

If there’s a signing I feel like it’ll be for a data-driven undervaluation. It won’t immediately satiate the fans need but may be more sustainable long term.

In other words, they aren’t going to do a Casemiero.
 

allstonite

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I suspect the comments from the Keita camp kickstarted the fans’ ire. Coupled with poor performance from the midfield and the unending injury list and we’re all panicking. The media is just leveraging that for clicks.

If there’s a signing I feel like it’ll be for a data-driven undervaluation. It won’t immediately satiate the fans need but may be more sustainable long term.

In other words, they aren’t going to do a Casemiero.
Yeah and that’s fine because at this point they just need bodies in the midfield. Especially if their plan is to wait for Bellingham.

What is McKennie’s status at Juve? He’d kind of fit what they’re looking for, I don’t think would cost a ton, and he’d probably pay for himself in jersey sales because their are a LOT of LFC fans in the states. He does seem to get injured often which might defeat the purpose
 

SocrManiac

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McKennie isn’t leaving Juventus. They have their own midfield shortage. Di Maria and Pogba are both injured.
 

67YAZ

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I guess the question is - exactly what kind of mid do they need? Given the more likeky of the rumours - The guy who went to Madrid who’s name I won’t attempt to spell and Bellingham - they want a complete box to box guy. FDJ probably is that guy - but the wages are probably prohibitive , and it would rule out Bellingham.
This is why I think Neuhaus. He can credibly cover all 3 midfield spots in the mold of Henderson, meaning he'll always be in the 20. He's 25, so a 5 year contract sees him through his prime years. He hasn't missed a game to injury in 4 seasons. Liverpool have been scouting him for 2 years, so they know exactly what they're getting into.

And he only has 2 years left on his contract, meaning Gladbach should be willing to deal.
 

67YAZ

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Reports today that Fab trained fully, though no word on how well he was moving.

Otherwise, the same cast remain injured and unlikely to make the 20 against Bournemouth: Kelleher, Matip, Konate, Ramsay, Thiago Keita, Ox, Jones, Gordon, Jota