Like Father, Like Son?

Otis Foster

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I split this off from the general discussion about Kraft's alleged involvement with the Jupiter Spa for a couple of reasons, but principally because JOnathan's succession is an issue that the NEP must face sooner or later, and my guess is it's a lot sooner today than it was same time/last week.

As DCMissile observed in the other thread:

That tape comes out, Kraft at a minimum is off all of those important NFL Committees. Completely untenable situation.

And we might be looking at an early step aside in favor of Jonathan as principal owner. I don’t know that the NFL would force that, but it could happen as part of the natural course of events.
Based solely on impressions and a tiny bit of inside info, Jonathan strikes me as unlike his father - certainly not a schmaltzy back-slapper, a financial type, bottom line oriented, and possibly rather rigid in his dealings with others. Much more important, I have no idea what his relationship is with either BB or TB. Will he be inclined to stay hands-off on football related issues, or is he inclined to put his own stamp on operations?

The latter is the real risk. Right now, I think decision-making on these concerns must adhere to the physician's first credo - do no harm. It may be accelerated by the pr/marketing desire to show that it's a new day in Foxboro with a new management team and style at work.

Some other questions: What's Gisele's take on this? Seriously? RK has been a father figure to her husband, but its likely she has very deep feelings about sexual traveling and the treatment of women in general, and I wonder if disillusionment with RK would affect TB's relationship with management.

Anyway, I'm interested on the take others have. Mods, if this veers to closely to the other thread, please feel free to merge.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm not sure there is much difference between Kraft Jr and Sr in how they view running the team. We do know that Jonathan is heavily involved already with day to day team operations, and he does seem to have a working relationship with Belichick.

The Krafts still have control over the budget, and at times that will cause friction between owners and GM of any franchise. We likely saw evidence of that in 2017-18 season during the entire Brady/Garropolo episode.

Belichick will still be given a lot of leeway. However, it is highly likely that JK will be running even more of the team's business (if not owning the team outright) when the transition occurs to Brady's successor. And Belichick the GM will be scrutinized in how he handles that transition, which we know will not be easy.

I'm not as worried about Giselle's feelings on the whole affair. They're probably not exactly pleased, but I doubt they're naive enough to think that the other NFL owners are boy scouts when compared to Kraft.

EDIT: I don't believe any of the nonsense that Kraft Sr will be somehow forced to give up control or sell the team. I'm sure the Krafts have a succession plan in place already, and this incident does nothing to change either the logistics or the timeframe of that transition.
 

bakahump

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*I was talking to Bakette about this. I used the "Myras death took a toll on Bob, He loved her completely, tried to hook up with a young replacement and realized he wasnt going to fall in love again and dumped her. That said he has needs/desires. Hence the situation he is in now." She looked at me sidways. But I dont think this is too far off. I have a hard time imagining that this would have happened had Myra still been alive. I have known people (men) that were completely in love....and after losing that person sex became simply a biological thing.

*As many of us said....we were not shocked that he wanted to get some sexual companionship. Rather we were shocked/amused he got it from a strip mall.

Who knows if this is indeed the case....but *I think most adults (Giselle included) could understand that type of situation. While they might not like it, familiarity and affinity for a person makes people overlook their flaws.

(*All that said if underage or a situation of forced sex is discovered then all bets/explanations are off)
 

pappymojo

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*I was talking to Bakette about this. I used the "Myras death took a toll on Bob, He loved her completely, tried to hook up with a young replacement and realized he wasnt going to fall in love again and dumped her. That said he has needs/desires. Hence the situation he is in now." She looked at me sidways. But I dont think this is too far off. I have a hard time imagining that this would have happened had Myra still been alive. I have known people (men) that were completely in love....and after losing that person sex became simply a biological thing.

*As many of us said....we were not shocked that he wanted to get some sexual companionship. Rather we were shocked/amused he got it from a strip mall.

Who knows if this is indeed the case....but *I think most adults (Giselle included) could understand that type of situation. While they might not like it, familiarity and affinity for a person makes people overlook their flaws.

(*All that said if underage or a situation of forced sex is discovered then all bets/explanations are off)
I assume Giselle will see through that b.s. as easily as your own wife did.
 

Bleedred

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Some random thoughts based on my knowledge of the Kraft family from direct (business) and indirect (personal) people who interact with them.

1. RK's wandering eye/schlong predated Myra's departure.
2. JK has the same predilection as RK re: #1 above, I just assume he's smarter about it that his dad has been recently.
3. JK is a very bright guy but an insufferable prick and not terribly honorable in certain lines of business (by that I mean promises not kept with regard to promises made on a handshake -- yes, woe be the person who foolishly relies on a hand shake).

My information is about 3-5 years old, but I think it's reasonably accurate. That doesn't mean that JK cannot be a great steward of the team once he succeeds RK, but JK's historical M.O. in most areas that he works is that he's incredibly impressed with himself and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room at all times (again, he's very bright and capable, but sometimes doesn't admit that he doesn't know what he doesn't know). I worry about this with regard to BB.
 

JGray38

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Yeah, I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself trying to figure out Giselle's feelings. She comes from a culture that has very different views on sex, prostitution and infidelity than we do up here. Brazil had a president who showed up at Carnival with an under-wearless call girl a while back, and the newspapers photoshopped Brazilian flags over the upskirt shots they published.
 

Average Reds

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There is no (mainstream) profession I can think of that objectifies and/or mistreats women like the modeling industry. And we're supposed to believe that Giselle wil be so shocked by the behavior of Bob Kraft that she's wants Tom to distance himself from him?

Giselle wants Tom to retire because she doesn't want his brains to be any more scrambled than they are already. I don't think Bob Kraft's sex life is a consideration.
 

dcmissle

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Dynastic succession is always an issue with professional sports teams in the US. They are not run like public companies. Sooner or later, we’re facing it.

In certain respects, we are well positioned. The team has never been hotter; very talented people would line up to work for it. Jonathan has been at this for a while. For a while at least, he has Belichick.

The stakes are high because there is no more important variable in team success than ownership. There are no guarantees, but there are several pretty clear guidelines.

1. Know the limits of your competence and stick to them. Specifically, don’t delude yourself into thinking you can run personnel. Don’t be Daniel Snyder; be Steve Bisciotti — or Robert Kraft.

2. Hire the very best people — and let them do their jobs. Be patient.

3. Invest in your team, particularly the aspects that are going to have on field ramifications.

4. Make sure the team culture is right.

5. Watch your back with the other owners.

This isn’t mission impossible. I don’t know whether Dan Rooney is up to Art Rooney, John Mara up to Wellington Mara. But they are good enough. What you have to avoid is a disaster.
 

Otis Foster

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Some random thoughts based on my knowledge of the Kraft family from direct (business) and indirect (personal) people who interact with them.

1. RK's wandering eye/schlong predated Myra's departure.
2. JK has the same predilection as RK re: #1 above, I just assume he's smarter about it that his dad has been recently.
3. JK is a very bright guy but an insufferable prick and not terribly honorable in certain lines of business (by that I mean promises not kept with regard to promises made on a handshake -- yes, woe be the person who foolishly relies on a hand shake).

My information is about 3-5 years old, but I think it's reasonably accurate. That doesn't mean that JK cannot be a great steward of the team once he succeeds RK, but JK's historical M.O. in most areas that he works is that he's incredibly impressed with himself and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room at all times (again, he's very bright and capable, but sometimes doesn't admit that he doesn't know what he doesn't know). I worry about this with regard to BB.
#3 corresponds to my impressions of the guy. He better clean up his act in dealing with BB/TB.
 

pappymojo

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Dynastic succession is always an issue with professional sports teams in the US. They are not run like public companies. Sooner or later, we’re facing it.

In certain respects, we are well positioned. The team has never been hotter; very talented people would line up to work for it. Jonathan has been at this for a while. For a while at least, he has Belichick.

The stakes are high because there is no more important variable in team success than ownership. There are no guarantees, but there are several pretty clear guidelines.

1. Know the limits of your competence and stick to them. Specifically, don’t delude yourself into thinking you can run personnel. Don’t be Daniel Snyder; be Steve Bisciotti — or Robert Kraft.

2. Hire the very best people — and let them do their jobs. Be patient.

3. Invest in your team, particularly the aspects that are going to have on field ramifications.

4. Make sure the team culture is right.

5. Watch your back with the other owners.

This isn’t mission impossible. I don’t know whether Dan Rooney is up to Art Rooney, John Mara up to Wellington Mara. But they are good enough. What you have to avoid is a disaster.
Not disagreeing, but it's funny that you write (paraphrasing) that 'the owner is the most important piece to a successful team' but that 'the number one rule for an owner is to get the hell out of the way and let the G.M. build the team.'
 

dcmissle

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Not disagreeing, but it's funny that you write (paraphrasing) that 'the owner is the most important piece to a successful team' but that 'the number one rule for an owner is to get the hell out of the way and let the G.M. build the team.'
See Snyder, Daniel and, until very recently, Angelos, Peter.

One of the many remarkable things about Bob Kraft is before he was owner he was long time fan -- with his ass planted on the ice cold aluminum seats of Schaefer Stadium. And he seldom if ever gave into the fanboy temptation of thinking he could run the football aspects of the operation.

The worst owners have callous contempt for professionals. They actually believe anyone can do this, or at least that they can.
 

Otis Foster

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"And he seldom if ever gave into the fanboy temptation of thinking he could run the football aspects of the operation."

See Jones, Tebucky - #fanboy.

But yes, Bob learned that lesson pretty quickly. Don't meddle with what you don't know, hire people who do. Jonathan doesn't sound like a guy who understands that.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I don't know, the impression I get is that Jonathan is very involved in the day-to-day operation surrounding the Pats (business wise, not football obviously). Jonathan is on the pre-game shows and speaks for ownership on a myriad of different issues relating to players, coaches, the NFL, etc., and frankly he comes across as a lot more in command than Robert does when he gives interviews these days. Obviously who knows who does what in the Kraft organization, but I think they are as well positioned as you can possibly be in for succession when Bob finally does step aside. I've heard the stories about him being more of a prick than his father, I'm not sure if that's a net positive or net negative when it comes to navigating the politics around NFL ownership.

Now once BB is gone all bets are off, I'm sure it is easier for the Krafts to keep their fingers out of the football side of things by reflecting on the 6 Lombardis in the trophy case. But that's going to be a risk whether it is Bob or Jonathan in charge when Bill retires.
 

tims4wins

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I don't know, the impression I get is that Jonathan is very involved in the day-to-day operation surrounding the Pats (business wise, not football obviously). Jonathan is on the pre-game shows and speaks for ownership on a myriad of different issues relating to players, coaches, the NFL, etc., and frankly he comes across as a lot more in command than Robert does when he gives interviews these days. Obviously who knows who does what in the Kraft organization, but I think they are as well positioned as you can possibly be in for succession when Bob finally does step aside. I've heard the stories about him being more of a prick than his father, I'm not sure if that's a net positive or net negative when it comes to navigating the politics around NFL ownership.

Now once BB is gone all bets are off, I'm sure it is easier for the Krafts to keep their fingers out of the football side of things by reflecting on the 6 Lombardis in the trophy case. But that's going to be a risk whether it is Bob or Jonathan in charge when Bill retires.
I completely agree with all of this. I personally think they are in perfectly fine hands. I think Jonathan has learned enough to not meddle.
 

Pxer

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Saw the thread title, and my heart skipped a beat thinking Jonathan got busted, too.
 

The Social Chair

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This probably means nothing but the players in the locker room can barely hide their contempt for Jonthan Kraft when they interact with him in those sights + sounds videos.
 

dcmissle

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"And he seldom if ever gave into the fanboy temptation of thinking he could run the football aspects of the operation."

See Jones, Tebucky - #fanboy.

But yes, Bob learned that lesson pretty quickly. Don't meddle with what you don't know, hire people who do. Jonathan doesn't sound like a guy who understands that.
Petey Carroll learned from that episode too.

What underlies your assessment of Jonathan? I was not impressed by his in-your-face stuff during Deflategate, but that doesn’t necessarily represent how he would run the team if left to his own devices. I’m not sure I have any impression of him at all.
 

rodderick

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Yeah, I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself trying to figure out Giselle's feelings. She comes from a culture that has very different views on sex, prostitution and infidelity than we do up here. Brazil had a president who showed up at Carnival with an under-wearless call girl a while back, and the newspapers photoshopped Brazilian flags over the upskirt shots they published.
Yeah, check out who we recently elected President and get back to me about how Brazilian culture is so sex positive and liberal about prostitution. We just had a congressman from the current ruling party try to pass a law to make it a crime to sell contraceptives over here.
 

Rough Carrigan

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I'm not sure there is much difference between Kraft Jr and Sr in how they view running the team. We do know that Jonathan is heavily involved already with day to day team operations, and he does seem to have a working relationship with Belichick.

The Krafts still have control over the budget, and at times that will cause friction between owners and GM of any franchise. We likely saw evidence of that in 2017-18 season during the entire Brady/Garropolo episode.

Belichick will still be given a lot of leeway. However, it is highly likely that JK will be running even more of the team's business (if not owning the team outright) when the transition occurs to Brady's successor. And Belichick the GM will be scrutinized in how he handles that transition, which we know will not be easy.

I'm not as worried about Giselle's feelings on the whole affair. They're probably not exactly pleased, but I doubt they're naive enough to think that the other NFL owners are boy scouts when compared to Kraft.

EDIT: I don't believe any of the nonsense that Kraft Sr will be somehow forced to give up control or sell the team. I'm sure the Krafts have a succession plan in place already, and this incident does nothing to change either the logistics or the timeframe of that transition.
Giselle made it to the top of the international modeling world. She probably knew about sleaziness, perhaps first hand, that would make Kraft look like a saint by comparison.
 

genoasalami

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This probably means nothing but the players in the locker room can barely hide their contempt for Jonthan Kraft when they interact with him in those sights + sounds videos.
Now that you say that .... Didn't Gronk give JK a "get lost prick" look when he interacted with him in the clubhouse after the KC win??
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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I don't think Gisele or Brady have a problem with Kraft.

Quarterback Tom Brady gave Patriots owner Robert Kraft a hug after they both got off a private jet at an airport in Boston early Monday morning, according to TMZ.

TMZ published a photo of the embrace, in addition to other shots of Kraft, Brady, and Brady’s wife, Gisele Bündchen, at the airport. The trio had traveled together from Los Angeles to Boston, the tabloid news outlet reported. Brady and Bündchen were in California for the 2019 Hollywood for Science Gala, where Bündchen was selected as an honoree for her efforts promoting sustainability, while Kraft was reportedly hitting up the pre-Oscars party circuit.