Life is a Beach - Summer 2023 Transfer
- Thread starter Vinho Tinto
- Start date
The American parallel is the NFL before and after the Super Bowl era. What are you more likely to hear, that the Detroit Lions have won 4 NFL Championships, or that they've never won (or even appeared in) a Super Bowl?
OK this makes the most sense to me. I'm old enough to have watched the NFL when the Super Bowl was as old as the Premier League right now. (That would be the Super Bowl XXXI season.)
Some online scuttlebutt today that Tyler Adams is a hot commodity - half a dozen EPL teams have checked in as well as a few clubs from Germany. Not surprising, but good to hear.
But there’s a lot of dominos yet to fall before Adams, Aaronson, and friends start moving. It appears that 49ers Enterprises, the DeBartolo holding company - is going to up their stake in the club from 44% to 100%. And then rumors are they are going to try to land Brendan Rodgers and make a push to make an immediate promotion.
Who knows how this will all play out, but it smells like Leeds will be delayed in doing summer business until ownership and then club leadership get sorted.
But there’s a lot of dominos yet to fall before Adams, Aaronson, and friends start moving. It appears that 49ers Enterprises, the DeBartolo holding company - is going to up their stake in the club from 44% to 100%. And then rumors are they are going to try to land Brendan Rodgers and make a push to make an immediate promotion.
Who knows how this will all play out, but it smells like Leeds will be delayed in doing summer business until ownership and then club leadership get sorted.
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On the flip side, nobody ever paid the least bit of attention to the idea of Walter Payton breaking the Super Bowl era record for most career rushing yards. It was Jim Brown's record and it didn't matter the least bit whether those yards were accrued in the pre-Super Bowl era.
Most NFL records are de facto Super Bowl era records because its been nearly 60 years, lots of stats weren't tracked way back when, and the game developed so that more of everything happened on offense. But there has been a sense among the sporting public that only Super Bowl era statistics counted or that pre-Super Bowl NFL statistics shouldn't count when discussing records.
Kante getting that Saudi bag too.
I wonder how players who retired ~5 years ago feel about missing out on this kind of gravy train.
View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666178209942056962
I wonder how players who retired ~5 years ago feel about missing out on this kind of gravy train.
View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666178209942056962
Five years ago they could still grab a Chinese league payout I think. Those were not nearly as remunerative as this, but you could get one as like a Moussa Dembele, not just a Ronaldo type.
Regarding Shearer’s record - in all likelihood he probably had the Premier League all time goal scoring record by the third year of his career (1994/1995) - which shows how stupid the record is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_first_tier_top_scorers#Top_50_all-time_top_scorers
Of the post-war guys in that list you’ve got Greaves, Shearer, Rush, Herd, Coffee and Kane, Hurst, Allen ,Rooney and Law all north of 200 goals.
Shearer knows this of course. He has said he’s immensely proud of the record but deep down knows it’s a fake record born of a marketing ploy. Heartily recommend that doc on the birth of the Premier League .
All that being said comparing eras is probably impossible. The Prem is the best league in the world now - probably has been for 4-5 years what with all the TV money. So, in my books Kane is already the greatest scorer. I bet he stays in England , and probably at Spurs.
That fee is MUCH lower than I expected....the LFC Transfer Team is pulling some crazy Obi Wan level Jedi mind tricks to make that happen. Or, Brighton did not negotiate well with regards to the release clause in the freshly signed contract.
Reporting is all over the map on that Mac Allister fee. Some people are saying 55m.
View: https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1666071419443093505
Bellingham is done, according to Ornstein.
View: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1666429911274340354
View: https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1666071419443093505
Bellingham is done, according to Ornstein.
View: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1666429911274340354
Messi to Inter Miami, according to one report at least. Let's see what confirmation comes but that would be a huge get for MLS.
View: https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1666436645082497027
View: https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1666436645082497027
In my experience at least, Alfredo Pedulla is in the upper echelon of complete bullshitters when it comes to transfer rumors.
Him, Tancredi Palmeri, and Gianluigi Longari are like this Italian triumvirate of fabricated rumors and guesswork.
Him, Tancredi Palmeri, and Gianluigi Longari are like this Italian triumvirate of fabricated rumors and guesswork.
This move by Bayern really surprises me. Guerrero turns 30 in December.
View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666519036253839364?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1666519036253839364?s=20
Weaken a rival, I guess.
Good for Kante, btw. Guy didn't break into the top flight until he was, what, 26? He hasn't made half the bank that his talents deserved. Get that WC trophy, then get the oil money.
Good for Kante, btw. Guy didn't break into the top flight until he was, what, 26? He hasn't made half the bank that his talents deserved. Get that WC trophy, then get the oil money.
View: https://twitter.com/WhoScored/status/1666802503676207106?s=20
This is the kind of guy who goes under the radar but can be immense, especially for a side likePalace who are looking to consolidate and build on a strong finish. A healthy and productive season probably means a place or two in the table just by himself. Excellent business candy
in case the tweet doesn’t show: Palace sign Jefferson Lerma, Bournemouth and Colombia international.
This is the kind of guy who goes under the radar but can be immense, especially for a side likePalace who are looking to consolidate and build on a strong finish. A healthy and productive season probably means a place or two in the table just by himself. Excellent business candy
in case the tweet doesn’t show: Palace sign Jefferson Lerma, Bournemouth and Colombia international.
Yeah Palace fans are pretty excited about this one, especially on a free transfer. Seems like the Gallagher window keeps closing.
Orkun Kokc to Benfica is close to being official for 30m EUR.
View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1667165514735443969
View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1667165514735443969
Belgian international Youri Tielemans to Aston Villa on a free:
View: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1667570071844077572
EXCL: Aston Villa have agreed a deal to sign Youri Tielemans. Doing medical before finalising contract. 26yo midfielder set to join as free agent after Leicester deal expired. #AVFC overcame plenty of competition for Belgium international
@TheAthleticFC
View: https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1667570071844077572
EXCL: Aston Villa have agreed a deal to sign Youri Tielemans. Doing medical before finalising contract. 26yo midfielder set to join as free agent after Leicester deal expired. #AVFC overcame plenty of competition for Belgium international
@TheAthleticFC
Villa continue building a really good team. They'll also assumedly have Diego Carlos fit and available for most of next year after he missed almost this entire year with injury.
Speaking of Aston Villa and free agents - there was a report today that Oxlade-Chamberlain was signed on a free.
I’m pretty down on Tielemans now. I know if makes no sense that I’m high on an Ndidi bounce back and Tielemans being cooked, but Tielemans was so invisible for Leicester this season. I was watching him closely because I was thinking Liverpool would be in on him, but Tielemans would go long stretches of matches with no discernible influence on proceedings. And then there was his World Cup debacle…Youri’s soul now resides on Alphonso Davie’s kitchen junk drawer.
Clubs will usually take a risk on the ceiling of a player more than the average or floor, especially for a 26 y.o. international on a free transfer. Good biz by Villa, even if it is just a flyer. Although our Sons of Ben Cherington contingent might disagree.
I might be biased as an Everton fan who grew up in that time, but I think many people actually care about the 1970s/1980s decades immediately preceding the PL. Even Dizzy Dean got some mention in Haaland's run-up to the season goals record, though that had a bit more of a "it was a different time" feel. I don't think the American football comparison quite holds, in that you still hear a lot about Liverpool's First Division records and European records, you still hear about "years in the top flight" that include First Division football whenever relegation is discussed, etc. It's not as clean cut as the pre-/post-Super Bowl divide in the NFL - I think some people will care about Shearer's record, and others will think of Greaves as the big record.
I think we are significantly closer to the start of the PL than we are to the Super Bowl era, which means a lot more people have memories of glory days pre-EPL, which makes the history feel more relevant. You'd have to be around 65 or older to have any real memories of the NFL pre-Super Bowl, which cuts down on a lot of the history. I think we will get to that point probably in the PL, although since the PL only started in the early 90s, we have a lot more media of the pre-PL era, which will help teams from the 70s and 80s endure.
The thing about the PL/Football League divide that is different from the time divides in American sports is that the PL is unquestionably a better, more competitive league in terms of individual accomplishment. Not just advances in technology and training, but because of the influx of money and the number of international players in the league, it's far harder to achieve individual milestones than in the previous eras. This isn't true for the NFL or the NBA, the player pool is largely the same (some more Euros in the NBA now, for sure, but nothing like in international soccer) and if the game is harder, or better, it's because technology and strategy have improved. So the PL serves as an easy divider between a league that was compromised mainly of UK and Ireland players, and a truly global league.
Even for the first few years of the EPL, international players were fairly rare. There were only 70 total players from outside the UK nations and Ireland in 1995, the year Alan Shearer set the former goal-scoring record. This season there were 72 players just from Brazil and Spain.
For sure - a better analogy might be dead ball era baseball - where the best players could hit .400 because the competition was much worse compared to a fully integrated MLB.
Mbappe on the move this summer? We've been here before, multiple times, so I'll believe it when I see it.
View: https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1668351675034214400
View: https://twitter.com/tariqpanja/status/1668351675034214400
PSG don't operate like other clubs. What I mean by that is they're probably fine with him playing his final season at wages of $1-2M and then him walking next season. They don't put as much value on getting any value back for him this year--he's more valuable to them. That said, this could just as easily be posturing by his representatives to extend the deal at the same or better numbers.
I think he plays in Paris this year, and signs for Madrid in Summer 2024.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/12/arsenal-closing-in-on-100m-deal-for-west-ham-midfielder-declan-rice
Jacob Steinberg says close to done on Rice for over 90M (pounds) with add-ons that could take it over 100M. Rumors on Twitter is 92M upfront with up to 10M depending on placement in CL and PL.
Steinberg is near the very top of David Sullivan's speed-dial, so I would guess it's very very close to done.
Jacob Steinberg says close to done on Rice for over 90M (pounds) with add-ons that could take it over 100M. Rumors on Twitter is 92M upfront with up to 10M depending on placement in CL and PL.
Steinberg is near the very top of David Sullivan's speed-dial, so I would guess it's very very close to done.
For me the Premier League is a very successful rebranding that gave plenty of material benefits to the teams. But the first division of yore isn't a different league, it's the same one.
He wanted to go to Madrid last time around, and PSG just came in with too much money. Now he's got that money, the marginal utility isn't there for him, Messi won't be there, might as well go with the heart this time.
I get that it's not a perfect parallel, especially as a Liverpool fan who had to hear "you're never won the Premier League" from Man United fans for years even though Liverpool won 11 of the last 20 First Division titles before the EPL was formed. Just saying it's a similar example of a time when a sport had a restructuring/rebranding that causes certain sectors of the media/fanbase to focus more on what happened post-reorg than pre. This will likely increase as all the 70's-80's players currently in the media retire. As for the records, someone else made the good correlation to the Dead Ball era, where yes, we know a bunch of guys hit.400 way back when, but there's a set of "modern-era" records referenced as well.
It's also a realization for me that I've been a legal drinker the entirely of the Premier League era and I'm getting old.
Transfer-related news out of Sevilla and Birmingham. Aston Villa look to have gotten Monchi, the architect behind the golden age at Sevilla. He might get too much of the credit for the successes and not enough blame for this season’s awful start (though he did play a part in salvaging the season) but there is no doubt that he has a special eye for talent.
The brain drain out of Spain is becoming a huge pain.
The brain drain out of Spain is becoming a huge pain.
There was a report in the Liverpool Echo that Christian Pursloe (ex Red SD) had let his job (President) at Villa yesterday. It didn’t say if he left voluntarily.
Honest question--didn't the EPL make some pretty big changes in terms of loosening domestic player quotas and other rules/regs?
While I get the sentiment that it was just a re-branding exercise, I think that's selling it quite short. England was not a worldly place for football pre-EPL and it still took 10 or so years for the game to go truly international. As much as I hate to say it, Wenger deserves a fair amount of that credit as he brought training, nutrition, and related methods from the continent. Not a huge data point, but English clubs didn't have a finalist in the European Cup from 85-92 after a period of dominance in the late 70s and early 80s.
Monchi is an absolute legend. I have no idea if he's still got the fastball after all these years, but him getting jostled out of southern Spain is something.
English clubs were banned from European play for five years after the 1985 Heysel disaster, which was precipitated by Liverpool supporters.
In the end, the transition to the PL did not make a near term decisive difference for the competitiveness of the league. It was really a combination of factors that accrued over time, only some of which were really linked to the PL switch. The backpass rules were changed, which made a huge difference eventually in changing how the game was played. The rules on foreign players were relaxed at European and domestic level during the 1990s, which changed a lot. Ferguson and United did a lot in terms of reestablishing English clubs in top level European competition and eventually figuring out how to adapt tactically to that play. And then culturally more clubs became receptive to foreign players and eventually managers. Wenger deserves a lot of credit but it was really a wider phenomenon, especially the introduction of creative attacking players like Bergkamp (who predated Wenger at Arsenal), Zola, Juninho Paulista, Cantona, etc.
All this said, its important to remember that Serie A was BY FAR the best European league throughout the 1990s and really until Calciopoli. The overall talent level in England couldn't hold a candle to the ridiculous level of talent in Serie A.
What ultimately made the difference for the success of English top flight soccer in the long run is not the Premier League but the British Empire, which set the league up to be the most marketable European league internationally during a time when international marketability became the ultimate driver of revenue generating capacity.
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And why didn't England have any teams in European Cup finals during this time?
(hint- don't ask Liverpool fans,)
The Premier League was/is simply a consolidation of power by the biggest clubs to make more money (and share less). The reason it became more worldly is because it had the money to buy the best players.
Edit: and Wenger absolutely deserves credit for helping modernize the game.
Wenger also had a huge advantage over other clubs by being French and speaking French and had some insight into who good players on the continent were, particularly French players. It was a novel strategy at the time, which further illustrates your point.
Oh wow, I didn't realize that. It makes the absence of English/EPL clubs from 91-99 more relevant.
Everyone loosened domestic players quotas because of the Bosman ruling that allowed free movement for EU players within EU. And while the first division wasn't as popular as it is today, when I was growing up it Greece in the 80s and we had two tv stations, the only match I could watch live on the whole weekend was an English first division game on Saturday afternoon; not even Greek league games were shown live back then. Then you would get highlights from foreign leagues on sunday nights and the English first division was the first.
Oh and btw, the English division had an advantage over others, because the average European team could only have two foreigners, while English sides could have Welsh, Scots etc. They may have been able to sign commonwealth players too; I am not sure for example whether Bruce Gropelaar who was South African players a foreigner or a domestic player with Liverpool.
What happened IMO is that the EPL was a rebrand that was accompanied with stadium upgrades & a hooliganism clampdown, an infusion of new TV money and free player movement (like everywhere). The difference was that the English league was the most popular abroad to begin with so it was always the first league to sell their TV rights abroad, so they got the best deals, which led to better players, which in turn improved to more people abroad following it, more merchandizing being sold, more money into the game, better players being signed, which in turn led to better TV deals and so on.
Basically a small initial advantage snowballed into a larger advantage over the rest of the world.
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