Let's Talk about the manager -- The John Farrell Thread

[MakMan44]

Mort had only thrown 13 pitches in the first game. I thought he had become somewhat of a long man in Ace absence?

In any case yes, I would have had him out there with the bases loaded before I let Miller pitch. Farrell clearly disagreed and at the end of day, you're 100% right about the offense being the cause of the loss, they ran into too many outs on the base paths.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Maybe Papi was sore tonight.  Many will answer that JF was right to take the long view in not pinch hitting Papi for Salty in the 10th.  But if Papi felt fine, I think it was a mistake to not let him hit there.  It's not as if he would have had to go into the field and one swing might have tied that game.  True, Salty has HR ability also, but Ortiz has been hot since he got back.  The long view is fine but every game counts.
 
I also don't trust Andrew Miller at all in high leverage situations.  I'm not sure who else I would have used there but I was pretty much expecting at least a run when the top of the 10th started, and I'm guessing I'm not alone in that.

I assume that Papi wasn't available, otherwise he should be hitting for Salty. I would have also liked to see Papi or Drew hitting for Ciriaco to lead off the inning (I believe it was the 10th?).
 
I don't think the bullpen could have been handled much differently tonight. Yes Miller isn't our best reliever, but he was also the 4th guy out of the pen in game 2 of a double header. Would you have rather seen Mortensen there?
 
If Miller can't pitch there, why is he on the roster?

 

[Plympton91]

I found it frustrating that Miller got the righthanders out and gave up hits to the two lefthanders.  If I'm not mistaken, he again approached the lefthanders by trying to pound sliders to the outside and outside corner nearly every pitch. Eventually, a professional lefthanded hitter is just going to wait on the pitch and hit it between third and shortstop or draw the walk.  The last time that happened, I blamed Salty for terrible pitch calling, but this time it was Ross behind the plate so it seems like more of a plan by Miller or the Red Sox.  Either Miller is too uncomfortable with his command to throw inside to lefthanders right now, or they have a strategy I don't understand.  I'd love to hear an explanation.

 

[joe dokes]

I found it frustrating that Miller got the righthanders out and gave up hits to the two lefthanders.  If I'm not mistaken, he again approached the lefthanders by trying to pound sliders to the outside and outside corner nearly every pitch. Eventually, a professional lefthanded hitter is just going to wait on the pitch and hit it between third and shortstop or draw the walk.  The last time that happened, I blamed Salty for terrible pitch calling, but this time it was Ross behind the plate so it seems like more of a plan by Miller or the Red Sox.  Either Miller is too uncomfortable with his command to throw inside to lefthanders right now, or they have a strategy I don't understand.  I'd love to hear an explanation.

 
 
Miller was having trouble on his arm side the whole inning. The RBI walk to Cain was the most obvious example. That might explain his unwillingness to even try that side vs LHB's.

 

[bozzs]

I figured that Farrell coming back would have a good effect on Lester and Bucholz but so far it has been pretty impressive, the sox at 14- 7 is alot better than I thought they would be certainly not leading the division. 
While I realize it's very early it is pretty refreshing compared to last season.

 

[Rasputin]

He seems to be pinch hitting more aggressively than regular season Tito.
 
Last night, after Resop relieved Anderson and hit Napoli, Gomes was due up with the bases loaded and nobody out. The Sox had already scored two but Farrell pinch hit with Nava, clearly thinking this was a chance to put up a really big number and put the game away. 
 
It was the fifth inning. I seem to remember that regular season Tito would basically have platoon partners get the whole day off unless there was a late game pinch hitting opportunity.
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS201304240.shtml

 

[luckysox]

I was a little surprised about that particular pinch hit - though not necessarily in disagreement with it. I do wonder how long Gomes will be the good "team guy" if he keeps seeing the pine as he has so far. Hopefully Farrell has a good idea of where Gomes is mentally, because I don't think you want to "lose" a guy whom everyone else sees as a leader in the clubhouse. But riding the hot hand in Nava is the right way to play things right now, I think. And Nava will either come back down to earth, which will open up more at bats for Gomes, or Nava will keep getting on base and raking, and then Gomes won't have much to argue with, and may become expendable at the trade deadline. Good problem to have.

 

[MakMan44]

Nava is the LHH portion of the LF platoon. Gomes was not brought into to hit against RHPs, he's a guy who we want to crush lefties. Which is why I think the PH was totally justified 

 

[Rasputin]

Nava is the LHH portion of the LF platoon. Gomes was not brought into to hit against RHPs, he's a guy who we want to crush lefties. Which is why I think the PH was totally justified 

 
Oh, I completely think it was justified. I wholeheartedly endorse the move. I just wanted to comment as it was something that seemed different than the previous not-completely-incompetent manager.
 
 
 

I was a little surprised about that particular pinch hit - though not necessarily in disagreement with it. I do wonder how long Gomes will be the good "team guy" if he keeps seeing the pine as he has so far. Hopefully Farrell has a good idea of where Gomes is mentally, because I don't think you want to "lose" a guy whom everyone else sees as a leader in the clubhouse. But riding the hot hand in Nava is the right way to play things right now, I think. And Nava will either come back down to earth, which will open up more at bats for Gomes, or Nava will keep getting on base and raking, and then Gomes won't have much to argue with, and may become expendable at the trade deadline. Good problem to have.

 
I don't think it's a matter of riding the hot hand. I think it's a matter of Daniel Nava being a better hitter against right handed batters than Jonny Gomes. I think when Nava cools off a bit, you'd see the same substitution. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll probably get a chance to see later in the season.

 

[pokey_reese]

This is also a place to give him credit for the Aceves move.  He said the right things to the media before it happened, about how a pitcher needs to earn these opportunities to start, much in the same vein that he has spoken about the closer spot with Bailey/Joel.  He doesn't seem afraid of controversy, or giving opportunities to guys who earn them vs. those that expect them.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Pretty hard to find recorded situations where a manager has employed shifts or less-than-typical defenses, but going anecdotally and remembering our games last year against the Blue Jays, a month into the season JF doesn't seem to be using quite as many shifts -- and certainly not as severe ones.
 
Perhaps this is personnel related.  Maybe Middlebrooks/Drew aren't as flexible out of position as Lawrie?  Maybe he doesn't think any OFers could play a 5th infield spot, or maybe the situation has just not presented itself.  Or has he given any quotes to suggest he's changed in philosophy?

 

[Plympton91]

I was completely confused as to why he used Miller in the 7th last night, but with the news on Bailey it made a lot more sense after the fact.  He had S,  L, R, L coming up in the 7th, and probably wanted Tazawa to pitch the 8th and Uehara the 9th, so he tried to steal the 7th with Miller.   But, he wasn't so wedded to that strategy that Miller's wildness was allowed to melt down, going to Tazawa when the situation demanded it.  Have to give him credit for that flexibility in both using and then pulling the plug on Miller in the 7th.

 

[Plympton91]

Minor observation in the grand scheme of things, but I thought it was a mistake to bring Doubront into the middle of the mess in the 2nd inning.  I think a lot of managers would have gone to a regular reliever like Wilson or Miller in that situation, and then brought in Doubront to start the 3rd inning clean or even try to squeeze another inning out of the reliever and then let Doubront start the 4th, hoping from that point he can finish the game. 

 

[OttoC]

Why did he put Ozawa, the closer pro tem, in to start the 9th in a game with his club down by 6 runs?

 

[TimNJsoxfan]

oops wrong thread...sorry

 

[soxhop411]

Why did he put Ozawa, the closer pro tem, in to start the 9th in a game with his club down by 6 runs?

he really has not "pitched" since sunday.. so im guessing getting work in

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Why did he put Ozawa, the closer pro tem, in to start the 9th in a game with his club down by 6 runs?

 
9 years of rest since resigning from the Boston Symphony?

 

[trekfan55]

Minor observation in the grand scheme of things, but I thought it was a mistake to bring Doubront into the middle of the mess in the 2nd inning.  I think a lot of managers would have gone to a regular reliever like Wilson or Miller in that situation, and then brought in Doubront to start the 3rd inning clean or even try to squeeze another inning out of the reliever and then let Doubront start the 4th, hoping from that point he can finish the game. 

 
It was obvious that Webster had nothing from the get go.  After a 4 run 1st, the Sox come right back and score 5.  Then he comes back out in the 2nd and still shows nothing (Pedro Florimon?)  Farrell should have had some reliever ready to take him out, after the Florimon HR.  I agree that sending in Doubront, who probably was not ready yet was another mistake.  It's hard to call a game when the other team scores 14 runs winnable, but it might not have been a 7 run 2nd inning if he plays it differently.

 

[Plympton91]

Once again in the second inning tonight, the Red Sox squander a 1st and 2nd nobody out situation. Without going through the littany (7th and 8th innings on Tuesday) of all these squanders, I'm declaring it's a problem. We know that scoring is down generally across the sport in recent years. We also know that this Red Sox team, on paper, is potentially the least potent offensive group in more than a decade (especially if Ellsbury and Middldbrooks are as bad as they look now). Is the evidence against bunting, even with a decidedly below-average OBP and high strikeout hitter like Middlebrooks so overwhelming even in a low scoring environment that Farrell shouldn't do it more often?

 

[Rasputin]

Once again in the second inning tonight, the Red Sox squander a 1st and 2nd nobody out situation. Without going through the littany (7th and 8th innings on Tuesday) of all these squanders, I'm declaring it's a problem. We know that scoring is down generally across the sport in recent years. We also know that this Red Sox team, on paper, is potentially the least potent offensive group in more than a decade (especially if Ellsbury and Middldbrooks are as bad as they look now). Is the evidence against bunting, even with a decidedly below-average OBP and high strikeout hitter like Middlebrooks so overwhelming even in a low scoring environment that Farrell shouldn't do it more often?

 
Unless you're talking about pitcher levels of hitting ineptitude, then yes.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Once again in the second inning tonight, the Red Sox squander a 1st and 2nd nobody out situation. Without going through the littany (7th and 8th innings on Tuesday) of all these squanders, I'm declaring it's a problem. We know that scoring is down generally across the sport in recent years. We also know that this Red Sox team, on paper, is potentially the least potent offensive group in more than a decade (especially if Ellsbury and Middldbrooks are as bad as they look now). Is the evidence against bunting, even with a decidedly below-average OBP and high strikeout hitter like Middlebrooks so overwhelming even in a low scoring environment that Farrell shouldn't do it more often?

As a general rule in the second inning of a 1-0 game, I say no. You have two relatively evenly matched teams in runs per game with Cle at 5.02 and the Sox at 4.85. With Middlebrooks hitting at near pitcher levels, I could be convinced to change my mind though.
 
I have no idea if WMB is a good bunter or not. If he isn't, then I do not have him bunt because with slugs like Napoli and Salty, running you could easily have a DP or he could get two strikes on his bunt attempts and then he has to hit with two strikes. OTOH, you've also got a guy hitting with 54 Ks and 5 GDPs in 154 PAs. Last season he had zero bunt attempts and only has one this year.
 
Using Run Expectancy numbers from 2007 (because that's what I have handy), with runners on 1 and 2 with no outs, the RE is 1.57. With runners on 1 and 2 with one out the RE is .97. With runners on 2 and 3 with one out the RE is  1.47. Pretty close to being a wash with the original scenario.
 
I'd say if he's a decent bunter then yes, have him bunt with McAllister on the mound.

 

[Van Everyman]

Glad they won today tho I'd be interested in knowing the thought behind his pushing Dempster to 127 pitches two starts ago and Lester to 115+ today. I imagine it might have something to do with the bullpen being exhausted but if that's the case I'd rather call up a bullpen arm than waste the starters'.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

My guess is that it's old school code.
 
Farrell wanted to do what he could to get a W for Lester. (People here don't think pitcher W's are important, but most of us were are not MLB pitchers. Most of them do.) Having sent Lester out to start the 7th, he wanted to give him a chance to clean up his own mess, because it "shows respect" for a vetran. (Baseball people usually pronounce that word like it's got two syllables. But that's probably worthy of its own thread.)

 

[Noah]

I think Farrell made a very bad mistake tonight not immediately pinch-running Ciriaco for Gomes as soon as Gomes singled. Ciriaco was going to have to come into the game to play 3B anyway, and Bradley could have simply stayed in the game in LF.
 
Now, I don't know if Ciriaco would have scored on Ellsbury's bloop to left. He probably wouldn't have anyway. But still, that's a no-brainer move. It doesn't burn an extra player. The only reason not to make the move is if you really value having Gomes in there instead of Bradley in case of extra innings.

 

[Plympton91]

That's a good point; I'm still trying to figure out why Gomes didn't score.  That ball hung up and then got behind the left-fielder.  I'd like to see a view that shows whether Gomes was running all the way.
 
Of course, it was pure luck that we're even talking about this; that ball was as much an error as is was a double.  It went right by Brown's glove in the air before he started his dive.  A lot of leftfielders catch that.

 

[ToeKneeArmAss]

The Ciriaco point is an excellent one.  Couldn't agree more.
 
As for Gomes not scoring, he can't really be going all out right from the crack of the bat there.  If it falls in front of Brown, he has to be sure not to be the last out at third.
 
Still, too bad it turned out like it did.  And maybe Butterfield sends Ciriaco there.  As long as he's got a 30% chance to score, you gotta take that shot.

 

[nvalvo]

The Ciriaco point is an excellent one.  Couldn't agree more.
 
As for Gomes not scoring, he can't really be going all out right from the crack of the bat there.  If it falls in front of Brown, he has to be sure not to be the last out at third.
 
Still, too bad it turned out like it did.  And maybe Butterfield sends Ciriaco there.  As long as he's got a 30% chance to score, you gotta take that shot.

 
I just watched it again. Either player would have been out at the plate by 30 feet or more. The ball was not hit very high or deep — it hung for about five seconds — and it didn't roll very far from Dom Brown because the stands intervened. Rollins (or maybe Galvis; I couldn't tell who was where from the video) had the relay as Gomes was rounding third. Maybe it's a situation where you just ask Gomes to bulldoze the catcher or hope Rollins makes a bad throw, but I don't see it ending well. 
 
I don't think Gomes was running slower than he could, and I don't think a faster player would have made much difference.

 

[joe dokes]

I just watched it again. Either player would have been out at the plate by 30 feet or more. The ball was not hit very high or deep — it hung for about five seconds — and it didn't roll very far from Dom Brown because the stands intervened. Rollins (or maybe Galvis; I couldn't tell who was where from the video) had the relay as Gomes was rounding third. Maybe it's a situation where you just ask Gomes to bulldoze the catcher or hope Rollins makes a bad throw, but I don't see it ending well. 
 
I don't think Gomes was running slower than he could, and I don't think a faster player would have made much difference.

The 20 or 25 foot difference between the  ball hitting the part of the stands facing the infield and taking a slight bounce back to Brown, and not rolling past that corner was enormous. id it had rolled past the jutting out corner, Brown would have had to arrest some outbound momentum in addition to spinning and throwing.  Last night, though, he only had to take a few steps before the ball sort of bounded back toward him.

 

[Noah]

Whether Ciriaco or Gomes would have been out at the plate is irrelevant to the issue regarding the manager, which is the decision to pinch run at first base.
 
It's not very often that a pinch-running scenario comes up where there the team has to pay essentially no cost, while potentially gaining a large advantage. Putting Ciriaco in for Gomes at first would have not have used up an extra player, and the only cost is:
 
1) Bradley would be in the lineup instead of Gomes in extra innings
2) The pitcher's spot would be one spot higher in the lineup
 
This is basically nothing, and #1 also provides you a significant defensive advantage.
 
It's as close to a no-brainer as you can possibly get. The only explanation is that Farrell actually thinks that Gomes is faster than Ciriaco.

 

[joe dokes]

The only explanation is that Farrell actually thinks that Gomes is faster than Ciriaco.

 
 
Or he's afraid that neck is attached to an empty head that would tell those speedy legs to "run" no matter what.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

No comments about Pedroia getting thrown out stealing by 91223476 feet to end an inning with a runner at 3rd base and Napoli up?

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

The only explanation is that Farrell actually thinks that Gomes is faster than Ciriaco.

 
Gomes has a rep as a very good and very smart baserunner.  Maybe not the fastest guy, but effective at what he does.  I'm sure that plays a role as well.

 

[trekfan55]

No comments about Pedroia getting thrown out stealing by 91223476 feet to end an inning with a runner at 3rd base and Napoli up?

 
 
Is that really on the manager? Pedroia took a bad jump, or the Philly catcher was really good, but he rarely gets caught stealing.

 

[Al Zarilla]

No comments about Pedroia getting thrown out stealing by 91223476 feet to end an inning with a runner at 3rd base and Napoli up?

Philly announcers pointed out Pedey slid much too early, but I don't think it makes any difference. He was going to be out with a perfect slide. And yeah, first and third, two out, don't risk  getting out of the inning by the back runner trying to get to second. Was Pedey running on his own though? He probably has a green light all the time. Maybe his decision.  

 

[Corsi]

Philly announcers pointed out Pedey slid much too early, but I don't think it makes any difference. He was going to be out with a perfect slide. And yeah, first and third, two out, don't risk  getting out of the inning by the back runner trying to get to second. Was Pedey running on his own though? He probably has a green light all the time. Maybe his decision.  

 
I seem to recall Don and Motormouth Bradford saying that as Pedroia was running off the field, he was staring at Butterfield like WTF.

 

[joe dokes]

I seem to recall Don and Motormouth Bradford saying that as Pedroia was running off the field, he was staring at Butterfield like WTF.

I thought I read somwhere today Farrell saying he's on his own.

 

[nvalvo]

I seem to recall Don and Motormouth Bradford saying that as Pedroia was running off the field, he was staring at Butterfield like WTF.

 
Sounds like a mixup. Such a dumb play, it had to be a miscommunication.  

 

[Noah]

Or he's afraid that neck is attached to an empty head that would tell those speedy legs to "run" no matter what.

 
There were two outs in the inning. "Running no matter what" is basically his job at that point.

 

[lexrageorge]

I'd like to think that the Pedroia incident was one of those classic mix-ups that should be filed under "stuff inevitably happens over 162 games".  I doubt it reflects on any strategic philosophy of John Farrell as manager.
 
The Sox are tied for the league with stolen bases with 41.  At 80.4%, they also have the 4th best success rate (stolen bases as a percentage of attempts) in the league.  They are not running into outs like the Angels, Rays, and Astros.  

 

[joe dokes]

There were two outs in the inning. "Running no matter what" is basically his job at that point.

 
I meant -- which I think was obvious from the context of the discussion -- "run all the way home even if the left fielder has the ball 30 feet behind third base when you arrive at third." 
In other words, Farrell was afraid enough that Ciriaco would make a baserunning blunder that his fear outweighed the speed increase when Gomes alleged baserunning smarts were taken into account.

 

[Noah]

 
I meant -- which I think was obvious from the context of the discussion -- "run all the way home even if the left fielder has the ball 30 feet behind third base when you arrive at third." 
In other words, Farrell was afraid enough that Ciriaco would make a baserunning blunder that his fear outweighed the speed increase when Gomes alleged baserunning smarts were taken into account.

The third base coach makes that decision. Does Ciriaco have a habit of running through stop signs?

 

[joe dokes]

The third base coach makes that decision.

Really!? He does! You mean the way he windmills his arms or holds up his hands actually mean something?! Goshgollygeewhiz.
 
People were speculating why Farrell didn't pinch-run Ciriaco there in what seemed like a no-downside situation.
Some said it was a mistake.
Some said he wouldn't have scored anyway.
Some said it might have been that Gomes is regarded as a very smart baserunner.
One wiseguy said maybe its because of Gomes's skill, combined with Farrell perhaps having a low regard for Ciriaco's baserunning skills (as opposed to his raw speed).

 

[Noah]

The point is, the only "baserunning skill" with two outs is not running through stop signs. If anyone thinks that's good enough reason to not run Ciriaco for Gomes, I think they're crazy.

 

[Plympton91]

Not a big fan of Tazawa for only 4 outs or Breslow for only 3 batters, before defaulting to Wilson for the middle of the Orioles batting order.

 

[judyb]

I have a bigger problem using Morales for 4 outs in the middle innings, if he's not going to be used as a long reliever, they don't have one, so every time they play a game like tonight's where they need a lot of innings for whatever reason, the pen will keep being a mess for the next game. 

 

[Plympton91]

Can somebody explain why you'd pitch to Davis with Valencia on Deck? Was he worried about Wilson throwing strikes w/bases loaded?

 

[joe dokes]

Can somebody explain why you'd pitch to Davis with Valencia on Deck? Was he worried about Wilson throwing strikes w/bases loaded?

 
I dont think you meant it this way, but one of the reasons I hate walking the bases loaded in this siutation is because the pitcher HAS to throw strikes; he has less room to try and make the batter swing at a ball out of the strike zone. He had been pitching pretty well, so I dont think Farrell was especially worried about the walk, as much as he was that the bases loaded robs the pitcher of some tools.   (Actually, I have no idea what he was thinking, but that's how I look at it.)  Given the difference between Davis and Valencia, it does make it a closer call, and maybe with a veteran pitcher he takes the chance?
 
As it turned out, he made good pitch to Davis that might not have been a strike. Or maybe wasn't supposed to be one. Does he throw that pitch with the bases loaded?

 

[Rudy's Curve]

Can somebody explain why you'd pitch to Davis with Valencia on Deck? Was he worried about Wilson throwing strikes w/bases loaded?

 
Wilson walked over four guys per nine last year and nine in 18 ML innings coming into the outing.  Plus, it's not like Davis killed the ball.  I have no problem with the decision.
 
If there's one thing I would quibble about, it's PHing Gomes for Carp in the 11th.  Yeah it was against a LHP, but there were two out and no one on and then they lost a lot in LF defense going from Nava to Gomes.

 

[nvalvo]

I dont think you meant it this way, but one of the reasons I hate walking the bases loaded in this siutation is because the pitcher HAS to throw strikes; he has less room to try and make the batter swing at a ball out of the strike zone. He had been pitching pretty well, so I dont think Farrell was especially worried about the walk, as much as he was that the bases loaded robs the pitcher of some tools.   (Actually, I have no idea what he was thinking, but that's how I look at it.)  Given the difference between Davis and Valencia, it does make it a closer call, and maybe with a veteran pitcher he takes the chance?
 
As it turned out, he made good pitch to Davis that might not have been a strike. Or maybe wasn't supposed to be one. Does he throw that pitch with the bases loaded?

 
We should also consider that Valencia's been hot as a pistol since Baltimore called him up. 

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

Going to go ahead and post this while the 9th is still going. Pulling Doubront after 93 pitches to bring in Bailey was completely asinine.

EDIT: Post may have been a bit reactionary and game-thready.