Let's Talk about the manager -- The John Farrell Thread

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ricopetro6

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Farell getting killed as people have to blame someone, it's human nature.  They only move I hated was not PH nap for salty with the go ahead run on 3B.  Salty just can not hit a 99 MPH fastball..
 

SeoulSoxFan

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smastroyin said:
It's also worth noting that WMB's positioning on the Holliday 2B is probably something Farrell has to answer for as well. 
 
To me this is the biggest mistake of the game. Even worse than the non-double switch. You got Holliday up and WMB is at least 4-5 steps away from the line. 
 
I couldn't believe how far he was off base when I saw the replay after getting home. Jesus. 
 

soxhop411

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To me this is the biggest mistake of the game. Even worse than the non-double switch. You got Holliday up and WMB is at least 4-5 steps away from the line.

I couldn't believe how far he was off base when I saw the replay after getting home. Jesus.



Isn't the 3B coach also responsible for in game defensive moves along with JF?
 

amarshal2

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I thought this board was insane through the TB and DET series for giving Farrell a pass on some absolutely inexcusably bad managing.  Honestly, it's the worst managing I've seen on the Sox in the past ~13 years -- so including Grady.  Tonight's bad decisions were some of his least offensive of the post season...at least now the eyes are open.  The guy is a savant in the locker room but he's brain dead in-game and brain dead making up a line-up card.  I'm not sure I can say the good outweighs the bad.  He's not going anywhere so hopefully he'll learn.
 

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Paul M said:
Have to think Morales as frightening as the prospect is, might need to be an early option given St. Louis' relative performance vs. LH. Doubront could go another 25-30 pitches I guess, but how many times has he had to come back after throwing 25 pitches like tonight? And what can you expect from Workman again since he threw 30 pitches. Just hoping Buchholz can summon the strength a la Pedro in 1999 to give them 6 strong innings. A 4 or 5 inning outing two nights in a row would be very difficult to manage especially with the pitcher having to bat.
 
I'll be curious to see if they use Doubront on Sunday or Monday.  I'm working on the assumption that the Red Sox must save Doubront for game 7 (if there is a game 7) as they can't possibly rely on Peavy in a game 7.
 

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amarshal2 said:
I thought this board was insane through the TB and DET series for giving Farrell a pass on some absolutely inexcusably bad managing.  Honestly, it's the worst managing I've seen on the Sox in the past ~13 years -- so including Grady.  Tonight's bad decisions were some of his least offensive of the post season...at least now the eyes are open.  The guy is a savant in the locker room but he's brain dead in-game and brain dead making up a line-up card.  I'm not sure I can say the good outweighs the bad.  He's not going anywhere so hopefully he'll learn.
 
Completely agree.  We now have a 175 game sample and it's pretty clear Farrell is an awful in game manager.  I don't know what voodoo he worked in the clubhouse or if Valentine was so bad that any human would be a big upgrade.  How does Napoli not get an AB in this game at all?  How does Uehara not start the 9th if Workman was going to be pulled after the first baserunner?  How the hell has Gomes started over a guy who was top 10 in BA and OBP all year?  The man must have some mythical potion and magic in the club house because he is a flat negative when it comes to in game management.
 

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amarshal2 said:
I thought this board was insane through the TB and DET series for giving Farrell a pass on some absolutely inexcusably bad managing.  Honestly, it's the worst managing I've seen on the Sox in the past ~13 years -- so including Grady.  Tonight's bad decisions were some of his least offensive of the post season...at least now the eyes are open.  The guy is a savant in the locker room but he's brain dead in-game and brain dead making up a line-up card.  I'm not sure I can say the good outweighs the bad.  He's not going anywhere so hopefully he'll learn.
 
I agree with your general point, though I think the signs have been there for longer than the post-season. However, I disagree with your second point; I think this was easily his worst performance of the post-season, and maybe of the entire year (probably not, but it's at least worthy of consideration). Hitting Workman, in and of itself, was about as dumb of a decision from a manager as I can remember seeing. People talk about pinch hitting for Salty in the 8th; I still don't understand why he was leading off the 7th, given that Ross was the better option to face the flame-throwing lefty, and because it's a no-brainer you want Ross's defense in there over his at the end of the game. I also was not at all a fan of pulling Doubront in the 7th, given how well he was pitching, and that we just generally have a pretty thin bullpen. This controversial call is really a bit of a blessing in disguise for Farrell, because it takes some attention away from just how poor some of his decisions were.
 
To be fair, some of his players right now are not helping him out. You probably can't use WMB now, unless you absolutely need the offense, because putting WMB at third and shifting Xander to SS looks like it's a downgrade to both positions of the left side of the infield. WMB has good hands, but he's a statue. It looks to me like he's lazy before the pitch and isn't getting himself on his toes like he should be. He was entirely off-balance on Holliday's grounder, and it caused his reaction time to be pathetically slow. I'm not sure you can really use Salty anymore, either. If he can't hit, he can't be playing, for obvious reasons. To be sure, a combination of a lot went wrong tonight, but in the midst of it, I really think Farrell made a couple of just terrible, terrible decisions. When it comes to in-game managing, I've seen enough to think he's in over his head.
 

OttoC

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Game 4...I can see it now: Bogaerts at SS, Ortiz at 1B, Napoli at 3B. It's time to bunt.
 

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smastroyin said:
Taking him out, on the other hand, is the move of a guy who is trying to prove he can hang in the NL.
 
If either Salty or WMB had done something, I would be fine.  But your bullpen can't handle this load over and over, it's more important to keep the guy in who is getting outs than to get a guy riding a 1-15 slump to pinch hit with none on and two out.
 
I'm really unhappy with that top of the 7th from Farrell.
 
Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but quoting this because it's what I came here to post. Doubront was looking great, the Cards are susceptible to lefthanders, and you're basically just hoping Gomes hits a solo homer? Let Doubie hit and you've got the top of the lineup ready to roll. 
 

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I honestly can't even ken what an appropriate response to this would look like.
JimD said:
I'd love to know what John Henry is thinking right now about Farrell's performance.  He cannot be happy with what he is seeing.
2010: 89 wins, 73 losses.
2011: 90 wins, 72 losses.
2012: 69 wins, 93 losses.
2013: 97 wins, 65 losses.

I'm pretty sure Farrell's job is safe regardless of what happens in this series.
 

JimD

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barbed wire Bob said:
2010: 89 wins, 73 losses.
2011: 90 wins, 72 losses.
2012: 69 wins, 93 losses.
2013: 97 wins, 65 losses.

I'm pretty sure Farrell's job is safe regardless of what happens in this series.
I'm not suggesting that Farrell is about to get fired, but I think that the ownership group will certainly expect Cherington and Farrell to address the glaring weakness of his in-game management skills. I wouldn't be disappointed if the Cubs or Tigers hired Lovullo as manager and gave the Sox an opportunity to bring in a more seasoned bench coach for Farrell.
 

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My biggest problem with Farrell last night--two outs in the top of the eighth, first and third, Salty coming up.   He should have pinch hit Napoli there.  The game was there to be won. If Nap delivers, we have the lead and Salty's not in the game to throw it away in the ninth.  
 

riboflav

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barbed wire Bob said:
2010: 89 wins, 73 losses.
2011: 90 wins, 72 losses.
2012: 69 wins, 93 losses.
2013: 97 wins, 65 losses.

I'm pretty sure Farrell's job is safe regardless of what happens in this series.
 
I'm not sure Farrell should be fired (yet). But, Henry did fire Little who won 93 in 2002 and 95 games and went to extras in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. And this came on the heels of winning just 82 and 85 games in the two previous seasons.
 

Rovin Romine

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I think the "Playoff Tito" showed that when there was no "long haul" to consider, the manager was able to play the percentages accurately, while keeping the ability to look forward, deeper into the game, and reserve assets for key moments.  
 
Farrell has unfortunately not shown that ability to date.  I'm with the laundry listers here (Doubront, Gomes, Napoli, etc.).  Ultimately this series is on Farrell as much as any of the players.  But that's basically because Farrell has chosen to make it that way via bone headed managing.   
 
I think the Sox, if appropriately used, could take the Cardinals.  I am now losing faith that they will be appropriately used.  
 

Harry Hooper

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C'mon, after the "BobbyV Experience" no Sox manager who gets the players to perform and work together is getting fired. I hated just about every decision he made last night, but Farrell would have to pile up about 5 postseasons' worth of blunders to be in jeopardy.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Harry Hooper said:
C'mon, after the "BobbyV Experience" no Sox manager who gets the players to perform and work together is getting fired. I hated just about every decision he made last night, but Farrell would have to pile up about 5 postseasons' worth of blunders to be in jeopardy.
 
But being "much better than the last guy" is a horrible and dangerous reason to justify keeping a guy.  (I'm not advocating that Farrell be fired, I'm just saying that they shouldn't use his performance with respect to Bobby V's as rationale for not looking to upgrade a position that could be upgraded.)
 

seageral

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the gomes for doubie and no ph for salty with a man on third are the ones that really galled me at the time.  what was teh reasonable thought process behind those?
 

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If Koji only has 4 or 5 outs in him, what was the plan to win last night that didn't involve leaving Workman in to hit? Dempster? Morales?

The game was tied in the road, they needed 6 outs. The best thing I have seen out of all of this second guessing is that he could spent Napoli to get a better chance than Salty with 2 outs in the 8th and thus got Ross into the game. If he does that, the Sox get to the 10th. Of course, if they do take the lead in the top of the 10th, they are stuck with Papi manning first since they have spent Napoli at that point.

The biggest thing Farrell needs to do at this point is tell them to stop making stupid throws to third base.
 

bosockboy

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Yeah everyone is acting like Napoli would have automatically homered off Rosenthal. It was a weird move but I understand the rationale of trying to buy multiple outs from Workman by giving up one there. The one I can't get past is removing Doubie. He could've literally pitched until Koji.
 

Toe Nash

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Rudy Pemberton said:
I didn't agree with a lot of Farrell's moves last night; but there was a reasonable thought process behind each one.
This has been the case with JF's questionable moves throughout the playoffs but at a certain point you need to realize that a lot of bad moves add up even if there was some defensible thinking* behind each one. Plus, he admitted that he should have double-switched for Workman. So what was his reasonable thought process there?
 
The apologizing for Farrell's mistakes is completely insane around here. He can be a good manager overall and have weaknesses tactically. It's also possible for him to learn from them which hopefully he does. Calling for his firing is way over the top. But people need to call a spade a spade, especially when he himself admits that he messed up.
 
*Though I don't think his defenses for Gomes over Nava were really "reasonable."
 

Gunfighter 09

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the gomes for doubie are the ones that really galled me at the time. what was THE reasonable thought process behind those?


They want Doubront for 3-4 innings today when Clay walks off in the 2nd or 3rd clutching his shoulder.
 

lexrageorge

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Last night was definitely not a good night for Farrell.  I still say the worse move from a game outcome standpoint was pinch hitting for Doubront with none on and 2 outs.  Felix could have given them 4 or 5 strong innings last night, a valuable asset especially in a tight game on the road.  And Doubront has been quietly very effective out of the bullpen these playoffs.  It almost seems as if the manager is holding Doubront's reservations about being a reliever against him.  
 
Missing the double switch is probably one of those "oh crap" moments that once it happened led to all sorts of issues, including Workman hitting in the 9th.  Of course, once they got into that situation, you can justify the Workman AB by the fact that (a) Workman looked pretty good in the 8th; (b) Mike Napoli wasn't going to have any better luck against Rosenthal; (c) 1 out and nobody on against Rosenthal it was highly unlikely they could even scratch a run in that case; (d) if they could get through the bottom of the 9th, they probably wouldn't be facing Rosenthal anymore, and would have the bench to use as needed.  The bigger problem was how they got there in the first place, for which Farrell is at fault (even by his own admission). 
 
Not using the IBB in the 9th was strange, but I fail to see how that cost them the game.  The pitch was a chopped grounder that wasn't hit very hard, and Pedroia was going to have to make a fabulous play to avoid a run regardless (even with a guy on 1st it was far from an automatic double play ball).  
 
Personally, I think any post that uses Farrell and Valentine in the same sentence should be moderated out of existence (except this one, of course).  Seriously, it will never be a valid comparison for a number of reasons.  Farrell had a bad game, but he isn't exactly being dealt a great hand by his team right now either.  Spots 7 through 9 in the lineup have been automatic outs almost since the start of the playoffs.  And they had a situation where their best reliever gave up a first-pitch double that no chance of being fielded at all, and then a scratch grounder that should have resulted in a 1st-and-3rd with 2 outs situation had Salty not totally blown the play (and that play was 99.95% on Salty, and 0.05% on the umpires).  And the rest of the bullpen has been really unpredictable. 
 
Seems to me that Farrell could use a better bench coach for some of these situations, but that's just my inexpert opinion here. But, let's face it, he's not getting fired.  I'm sure he got quite the earful from the GM last night.  
 

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Gunfighter 09 said:
They want Doubront for 3-4 innings today when Clay walks off in the 2nd or 3rd clutching his shoulder.
But he threw last night, so he's not going to go again except in an emergency. He's not a rubber-armed reliever, he's a converted starter. Once you burn Doubie you may as well get 3-4 innings from him. Dempster is the first line of defense tonight.
 

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Removing Doobie for Gomes was, IMHO, the only really terrible move . Echoes of Willoughby for Cecil Cooper in 75

I didn't hate not hitting Napoli for Salty in the 8th .. Napoli can't hit 99 mph fastballs either. Same in the 9th for Workman .. Although, as Farrell himself mentioned , getting Ross into the game in a double switch would have been a good idea. Seems like Farrell's whole strategic thinking was rope-a-dope once Rosenthall came in.

Finally the non walk of Jay .. If you walk Jay you have to get Kosma and Robinson out. The infield has to be in so a DP chance would be minimal. Looking at splits , Robinson was a better hitter this year against RHs than Jay was .. Despite Jay with the platoon advantage. Koji is better against LHs as well .. So Farrell decided on the two best matchups AND give Koji a better chance - not having to worry about a walk or HBP - against the slim chance of a DP.

Edit: apparently Wong was following Kosma .. Which does change things to a degree
 

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bosockboy said:
Yeah everyone is acting like Napoli would have automatically homered off Rosenthal. It was a weird move but I understand the rationale of trying to buy multiple outs from Workman by giving up one there. The one I can't get past is removing Doubie. He could've literally pitched until Koji.
I know you have to win one game at a time, but I do wonder if removing Doubront was so he'd be available again today.
 

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When you bring in Workman to pitch the Bottom of the 8th and the goal is to let Workman begin the Bottom of the 9th if it remains a tie game, then the manager absolutely has to make a double switch removing Salty and adding Ross.  Farrell himself has admitted he made this mistake.  Let's hope he has learned and will be much better if a similar situation presents itself tonight or tomorrow.
 

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Gunfighter 09 said:
They want Doubront for 3-4 innings today when Clay walks off in the 2nd or 3rd clutching his shoulder.
 
I would have personally preferred they keep Doubront in last night, and not use Workman until they really needed to/if the game went a few innings into extras. Now they're both tired, and we are stuck with Dempster. That's why I think pulling Doubront last night in that situation was a significant mistake.
 
Edit - Toe beat me to it.
 

swingin val

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soxhop411 said:
Isn't the 3B coach also responsible for in game defensive moves along with JF?
The 3B coach for the Cardinals?

While Middlebrooks positioning may have been sub-par, he still should have had the ball hit by Holliday. He also should have had the ball thrown by Salty.
 

czar

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A couple scattered thoughts I had on Twitter.
 
I didn't really have a problem pulling Doubront at the time. Hindsight is 20/20, of course, but that was a game where the Red Sox needed offense (at the time, we didn't realize it would be 4-4 in the ninth) and didn't have many outs to get them. I don't think Buchholz played into this, since I don't think Doubront is actually available tonight.
 
I strongly dislike Breslow continuing to be used as a high-leverage RP. His playoff xFIP is now 5.43 and he's put on nearly a quarter of the batters he's faced with a BB or HBP. IMO, he has to move to like the 4th option (at best) in this pen right now. If you ignore his TB game and look at his peripherals, you may wonder why he's even something other than a mopup man on this roster. I'd rather see Dempster and maybe even (gulp) Morales over him to start an inning (in addition to Workman, Tazawa, Uehara, and Doubront). This is also highlighting how badly the Sox miss Andrew Miller.
 
Not pitching Uehara in the 8th is perfectly defensible, and I was confused over the game thread vitriol. The odds of you scoring against Rosenthal in the top of the 9th with your 8-9-1 slots up is very small. You are very likely looking at at least a 10 inning game if you want to win. Saving Uehara for an inning (when you know you'll need 2 out of him anyway) so you can clear his spot is the move I would have made as well. Of course...
 
... if you don't pinch hit or double switch Salty in the ninth inning that makes it moot. I'd like to think Farrell legitimately wanted to steal another inning out of Workman (disagree, but at least he'd be sticking to his guns), but I fear he may have "just fucked up" in the context of the NL. Yes, it's possible Napoli or Ross swing through three Rosenthal fastballs, but you absolutely cannot just give up free outs in the ninth inning of World Series games (especially by putting a guy with no major league ABs up at the plate).
 
I also would have intentionally walked Jay. I don't think you can put to this as a definitive outcome that swayed the game like some people want, but it allows you to play the IF semi-deep against Kozma (more likely to strike out, but also more prone to a DP). In the end, it didn't matter and not walking Jay technically paid off if Salty doesn't throw that ball away. But my gut at the time was to use the IBB to give the IF a little more breathing room with Koji on the mound.
 

coremiller

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Here's the problem with defending the Workman AB by saying they were trying to steal an IP in the bottom of the 9th: Farrell pulled Workman after two batters: a K and bloop single.  Pulling him then was the right move, since you want your best guy in for that situation.  But IF you're going to pull Workman at the first sign of trouble (which you should), you gain almost nothing by letting him hit.
 
I also don't understand saying "Napoli couldn't have hit a 99 mph fastball either."  He's an above-average major league hitter, every hitter of his ability can hit a 100 mph fastball.  He certainly would have had a meaningfully better chance than Workman, and if Napoli could get on the top of the order was coming up.
 

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coremiller said:
Here's the problem with defending the Workman AB by saying they were trying to steal an IP in the bottom of the 9th: Farrell pulled Workman after two batters: a K and bloop single.  Pulling him then was the right move, since you want your best guy in for that situation.  But IF you're going to pull Workman at the first sign of trouble (which you should), you gain almost nothing by letting him hit.
 
I also don't understand saying "Napoli couldn't have hit a 99 mph fastball either."  He's an above-average major league hitter, every hitter of his ability can hit a 100 mph fastball.  He certainly would have had a meaningfully better chance than Workman, and if Napoli could get on the top of the order was coming up.
 
Thank you.  I was going to make a similar post.  Why let Workman hit over Napoli if you're just going to pull him after a one out bloop single in the next inning?  
 

czar

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coremiller said:
Here's the problem with defending the Workman AB by saying they were trying to steal an IP in the bottom of the 9th: Farrell pulled Workman after two batters: a K and bloop single.  Pulling him then was the right move, since you want your best guy in for that situation.  But IF you're going to pull Workman at the first sign of trouble (which you should), you gain almost nothing by letting him hit.
Caveat: I do not agree with the decision and did not last night.

That said, if Farrell is going to make the (IMO, incorrect) decision to stick with Workman to try and get another inning out of him (pushing Uehara back to the 10th), and then after two batters goes "oh crap, that was dumb," I'd rather have him admit the mistake and make the move. The Workman AB was the textbook definition of a "sunk cost" at that point.

It's worse (again, IMO) to call Farrell stupid for using Uehara in light of his decision in the 8th. If you are going to call him stupid, just say he screwed up letting Workman hit. But it's unfair to say "well, if Workman hits, at least stick with your guy in the 9th."

It's the opposite of when Francona would try and steal outs and stubbornly stick with his guys for three-four batters too long because he had made up his mind by the 6th that he was getting Wakefield through the 6th.
 

coremiller

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czar said:
Caveat: I do not agree with the decision and did not last night.

That said, if Farrell is going to make the (IMO, incorrect) decision to stick with Workman to try and get another inning out of him (pushing Uehara back to the 10th), and then after two batters goes "oh crap, that was dumb," I'd rather have him admit the mistake and make the move. The Workman AB was the textbook definition of a "sunk cost" at that point.

It's worse (again, IMO) to call Farrell stupid for using Uehara in light of his decision in the 8th. If you are going to call him stupid, just say he screwed up letting Workman hit. But it's unfair to say "well, if Workman hits, at least stick with your guy in the 9th."

It's the opposite of when Francona would try and steal outs and stubbornly stick with his guys for three-four batters too long because he had made up his mind by the 6th that he was getting Wakefield through the 6th.
 
I agree with your sunk cost point, but that's why you don't let Workman hit.  The only reason to let Workman hit is to try to steal outs in the bottom half.  But you know that as soon as a runner gets on you're going to bring in Koji, so there's no reason to let Workman hit.
 

czar

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coremiller said:
 
I agree with your sunk cost point, but that's why you don't let Workman hit.  The only reason to let Workman hit is to try to steal outs in the bottom half.  But you know that as soon as a runner gets on you're going to bring in Koji, so there's no reason to let Workman hit.
 
I'm just saying that maybe Farrell changed his mind mid-stream. If that's the case, then I'd rather have him just eat it and say "bad decision" than say "yeah, OK, maybe I should pitch Uehara, I guess I made that decision to try and steal these outs so let's keep rolling with it so I don't come off as someone who flip-flops."
 
None of that excuses the original decision to let Workman bat, it just (in my eyes) makes it one bad decision instead of two.
 

lexrageorge

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You let Workman hit because the chances of anything happening at that point (none on and 1 out against Rosenthal) are miniscule.  You can't use the standard run expectancy tables when you're facing a guy like Rosenthal throwing 99-100 mph rising fastballs; if the Sox were down a run, you go with Napoli and hope for the best.  
 
You do hope that with Workman and Uehara lined up you can get out of the 9th without scoring a run.  And you still have Napoli on the bench for the 10th or 11th if you need him, and you get another AB out of Ortiz in the 10th.  Reasonable people can disagree on this point; I can understand the argument about using your best hitters in the 9th, regardless of the pitcher.  But I don't believe Napoli vs. Rosenthal is a very good matchup. 
 
The screwup was Farrell's not doing the double switch earlier; by the 9th, that point was moot, however.  And managing isn't a logic exam; you don't say "because I did X earlier; I must do Y now" when "doing Y" has become the suboptimal decision. 
 

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Toe Nash said:
But he threw last night, so he's not going to go again except in an emergency. He's not a rubber-armed reliever, he's a converted starter. Once you burn Doubie you may as well get 3-4 innings from him. Dempster is the first line of defense tonight.
Doubie only threw 25 pitches last night. You have to hope Lester can go into the 7th or 8th on Monday, so you may not need him in that game. Day off Tuesday. I would think, with no more series after this one, Doubie is available, available, available tonight. Did Farrell say anything about pitchers' availability?
 

ricopetro6

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I can't get over Salty batting in the 8th with the go ahead run on 3B against Rosenthal. Everyone knows that he just can't catch up to that fastball, there was no chance there. Nap can hit a fastball if he gets geared up to do so, Rosenthal doesn't have much else.(and doesn't need much else)
 

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Workman hitting in the 9th is such a bad call, I just can't believe he let that happen. Workman warmed up in the 4th inning, then sat down for a couple of hours, warmed up again, and pitched the 8th. In my opinion, he did not look good in the 8th. He was throwing 90 mph when he typically throws 94-95 out of the pen. It was clear that he did not have his best stuff, I breathed a huge sigh of relief that he got through the 8th. Absolutely ridiculous that you punt the 9th inning offensively to keep a pitcher in the game that is struggling when you have your closer ready to pitch the 9th in a tie game on the road.
 

lambeau

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Feb 7, 2010
1,139
Connecticut
We all love Farrell the leader of men. But he's struggling strategically and tactically.
 
Platoons
 
If Drew's defense is so critical that his sub-.100 batting is irrelevant, why are Ross and Napoli not  utilized for their outstanding defense? Their hitting isn't shabby.
 
The idea of Gomes' superior defense was blown in Game 2 on his throw 10 feet off-target; his hitting under pressure is 3/24 (.125) this post-season versus Nava's 4/12 (.333).
 
Pitching
 
Not believing in leverage is a problem.
 
Yes people like to know their schedule; but I thought firemen realized they are more useful in a crisis, despite the inconvenience to them.
 
Doubront is being saved for tonight?? Really? I would have thought let him continue last night and save him for Game 7.
 
Workman having his first-ever at-bat in the ninth inning of a tied WS game is a sign that somebody's not planning properly.
 
Pinch Hitting
 
I don't object to starting Drew, but he's allowed to strike out far too often in late innings.Even Middlebrooks looks better--and why not hit him if you're short of PHers--then Gomes for Workman.
 
Or hit Ross--then use him for late-inning defense.
 

EvilEmpire

Dope
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Apr 9, 2007
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lexrageorge said:
You let Workman hit because the chances of anything happening at that point (none on and 1 out against Rosenthal) are miniscule.  You can't use the standard run expectancy tables when you're facing a guy like Rosenthal throwing 99-100 mph rising fastballs; if the Sox were down a run, you go with Napoli and hope for the best.  
Giving away an out that late in a tie game is just stupid. The Sox were only guaranteed to have five more outs. Farrell gave away one.

There is no way that a few more pitches from Workman are worth more than an out at that point in the game.
 

melonbag

lurker
Sep 29, 2011
133
EvilEmpire said:
Giving away an out that late in a tie game is just stupid. The Sox were only guaranteed to have five more outs. Farrell gave away one.

There is no way that a few more pitches from Workman are worth more than an out at that point in the game.
 
I agree.  I hated giving away an out.  
 
This isn't hindsight, because the Sox lost the game.  I'm sure the sight of Workman walking to the plate with a bat in his hand, had millions of Sox fans screaming expletives at their television.  
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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Jul 14, 2005
9,745
Miami (oh, Miami!)
lexrageorge said:
 
Missing the double switch is probably one of those "oh crap" moments that once it happened led to all sorts of issues, including Workman hitting in the 9th.
 
Maybe he should skip the press conference and, like, read a book on this.   Or something.  
 

JMDurron

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Jul 15, 2005
4,754
Montgomery, Alabama
I see last night as a manager who isn't a tactical incompetent over-thinking and over-managing in the face of his players continuing to struggle, but playing just competently enough to keep bringing about critical tactical situations.  Gomes in for Nava for a "spark" because the team has barely hit in the postseason outside of two games that were enabled by the defensive incompetence of the opponent (ALDS Game 2, WS Game 1), so he's shuffling deck chairs.  Gomes being an offensive black hole right now makes that move look even worse than it otherwise would be, but it only happened at all because 4/9 of the lineup is slumping simultaneously (Victorino, Drew, Napoli until late in the ALCS, and Salty).  He tries to push Workman because the other top relievers have either been the Cardinals' MVP (Breslow) or are risking being overworked (Tazawa, Uehara).  Everything is snowballing, and every questionable decision is coming back to hurt him when the players keep failing to execute. 
 
Now, he's stuck with defensive incompetence in the OF (Gomes in LF, Nava in RF in a ballpark with a large OF), a pitcher with no stuff, and a potentially torched bullpen after Peavy's lack of innings in Game 3 and what seems likely to happen with Buchholz tonight.  I expect to see more over-thinking and unforced errors with the mix of deck chairs tonight.  The good news is that Lester should get the series back to Fenway anyway. 
 
The man still deserves some credit for getting this team here, and there just might have been the occasional helpful tactical move made along the way.  John Farrell did not become a completely incompetent in-game manager overnight, he's making some questionable decisions and being burned by every single 50/50 choice by poor player execution.  Breslow, Middlebrooks, Bogaerts (tough play, granted, but that was bad luck for Farrell/Bogaerts as much as anything else), and Salty fucked him, and their teammates last night in the field.  Blaming the manager when the game is lost by poor execution and unlucky bounces is at least partly just a fanbase wanting to have a single point upon which to focus our anger. 
 
Lester pitches tomorrow night, this series will go back to Fenway Park despite whatever happens tonight, and whatever Farrell does or doesn't do to enable what happens tonight. 
 

Paul M

Dope
Dope
Mar 2, 2000
10,386
Falls Church, VA
At what point do they just forget about using Breslow? He's been a complete mess out there, and tonight again can't throw a strike. Have to give kudos for going to Doubront and letting him get into the 7th, but Breslow's pretty much a gas can. Of course, who do you use in that situation?
 

czar

fanboy
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
4,149
Ann Arbor
czar said:
I strongly dislike Breslow continuing to be used as a high-leverage RP. His playoff xFIP is now 5.43 and he's put on nearly a quarter of the batters he's faced with a BB or HBP. IMO, he has to move to like the 4th option (at best) in this pen right now. If you ignore his TB game and look at his peripherals, you may wonder why he's even something other than a mopup man on this roster. I'd rather see Dempster and maybe even (gulp) Morales over him to start an inning (in addition to Workman, Tazawa, Uehara, and Doubront). This is also highlighting how badly the Sox miss Andrew Miller.
 
Yeah, so this HAS to stop.
 
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