BrazilianSoxFan said:
Why is the writer saying pine tar v. no pine tar after stating that he didn't remove the pine tar entirely but rather shifted the location from his pitching hand to his glove hand wrist?
Let's talk about Michael Pineda
- Thread starter jon abbey
- Start date
Why is the writer saying pine tar v. no pine tar after stating that he didn't remove the pine tar entirely but rather shifted the location from his pitching hand to his glove hand wrist?
Sterling immediately was trying to reassure Yankee fans that Girardi will save the day and check Boston pitchers. He sounded like his mom found something he wasn't supposed to have, but then said "But, but, everybody else has it Mommy!!?? Why can't I have it." What a gutless homer. Both sounded like they had no idea or didn't want to believe Pineda had anything on his neck. The monitors are sitting right in front of them. OB and Joe knew it was there too.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Right, cuz so many of the Sox pitchers have long hair. Oh wait, it's just one. And he uses suncreen duh
Snodgrass'Muff said:
As we saw last year, at least Lester and Buchholz (and many other pitchers around the league) use the Bullfrog sunscreen/rosin combo to get a better grip on the ball. That seems to be accepted in the current baseball climate. Pine tar, for whatever reason, seems to be the doctoring Rubicon that cannot be crossed.
RedOctober3829 said:
I'll give Michael Kay credit (shudder): he was appropriately flabbergasted why Pineda would be so obvious about using it again so soon after getting nabbed on TV with it in his start in NY.
terrynever said:
Cashman needs to have a word with Rothschild, I guess.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/sports/baseball/yankees-red-sox-pineda.html
tims4wins said:
Right, cuz so many of the Sox pitchers have long hair. Oh wait, it's just one. And he uses suncreen duh
Brianish said:
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
You guys are missing my point. Slicking his hair with oil would make the ball more slippery and thus, make the ball behave erratically, more akin to a spit ball. What we know, and all of baseball knows is that Clay uses the sunscree+rosin mix to make his fingers a bit tacky or sticky to enhance grip and make it easier to control where the ball is going.
Sterling is a moron for taking what we know, and spinning it into something on the opposite end of the spectrum with absolutely no evidence to support it. His pitches weren't moving unexpectedly and he wasn't having trouble locating them. The idea that he was oiling his hair is preposterous and unnecessary since we know he was doing something else. Why not just say what happened instead of trying to make it sound worse? Or, if you are going to trump it up, at least do it in a believable way... not in a way that couldn't possibly be more different.
10 games is light IMO. He should miss 2 starts no matter how many games that takes. He was already reprimanded by MLB and did it again.
its simple with Clay's hair - it's wet, rosin activates when combined with moisture.
As far as the YES team, when it became obvious that there was tar on his neck, as in the second the ump touched his neck and booted him, the YES team weighed in. Before that, they were silent. and this was I believe at the same time the NESN and ESPN broadcasts had noticed it and were focusing on it. As I was watching YES, it was like suddenly Farrell comes out much to everyone's surprise. On the other broadcasts it seems like it may have been obvious why he was coming out.
As far as the YES team, when it became obvious that there was tar on his neck, as in the second the ump touched his neck and booted him, the YES team weighed in. Before that, they were silent. and this was I believe at the same time the NESN and ESPN broadcasts had noticed it and were focusing on it. As I was watching YES, it was like suddenly Farrell comes out much to everyone's surprise. On the other broadcasts it seems like it may have been obvious why he was coming out.
jon abbey said:
Pretty sure you get to replace a suspended player.
Or are the NYY playing with 24 this year?
How do off days factor in? It's a 10 game suspension, not 10 days. Granted 10 games just means he misses 1 start and the next is pushed back one additional game. I don't think off days matter other than ability to move other pitchers around to accommodate.
Bucknahs Bum Ankle said:
Because you can the pitcher(s) after him forward a game with the same amount of rest due to off days.
Lose Remerswaal said:
That's specifically a steroid rule, created because 50 games is a really long time to have a short roster. Normal suspensions for regular baseball stuff generally force teams to go with a 24-man roster.
How about another ten games in addition to what he got for last night for the previous situation?
Doesn't last nights situation and ejection shed a new light on what happened the first time around.
So for two infractions he misses one start.
Just a joke.
Doesn't last nights situation and ejection shed a new light on what happened the first time around.
So for two infractions he misses one start.
Just a joke.
This is why Torre's "We'll have a word with him" "punishment" was ill-informed. The guy blatantly did this 3 times in a month, got national exposure for it 2 times, and even last night Torre's edict means Pineda could have been out there for another 6 innings had Farrell not complained. It absolutely should have been considered a 2nd or even 3rd offense and punished appropriately.Reggie's Racquet said:
The 2nd and 3rd offense stuff is nonsense. There can't be a punishment until there is an infraction. There wasn't an infraction until Farrell requested an ump check him during the game. Farrell could have done that before, but didn't.
Things worked out exactly as they should have. Pineda was stupid. Farrell had him checked. Ump booted him. The Yankees admitted he was wrong and were embarrassment by it all. Pineda got suspended for his 10 games. Pineda won't appeal.
It's done unless he does it again and gets caught.
Things worked out exactly as they should have. Pineda was stupid. Farrell had him checked. Ump booted him. The Yankees admitted he was wrong and were embarrassment by it all. Pineda got suspended for his 10 games. Pineda won't appeal.
It's done unless he does it again and gets caught.
I've been thinking about this more and more today: can we contribute Pineda's amazing 2011 season to having pine tar? It's extremely possible that he's been using the pine tar all along to get more break and spin on his breaking pitches. Going forward, I'll be very curious to how he does the rest of the season. If he keeps up what he did in his previous spots, then it's not the tar. If he starts to struggle, then we'll all know it was the tar.
Well, we would have a reasonable suspicion it's the tar. There are a number of reasons he might struggle when he comes back, and some of them have nothing to do with pine tar. Hell, his shoulder could start falling apart again and he'd look awful if it did, but it wouldn't be something we could pin on pine tar.
Verducci went back and looked. Subtle evidence, suggesting less usage in 2011.rembrat said:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20140424/michael-pineda-yankees-pine-tar-red-sox-joe-girardi/?eref=sihp
Waldman was on Jay Mohr today. Absolutely pathetic in her back peddling from last night. Paraphrasing but she claimed that she and Sterling didn't have the NESN feed which clearly showed Pineda's neck. Their feed didn't show anything. Really? It wasn't like he JUST stepped from the dugout and was called on this. I have to imagine that ANY camera shot showing Pineda clearly showed the "guup" on his neck as she called it. Said there are some "serious language problems" with Pineda. She was all for tossing Pineda and the team under the bus today, while kinda', sorta' offering half assed excuses along the way. Wonder if she would have taken that stance if the Yanks hadn't already publicly 'owned" the situation. Would be great if anyone can find and post the audio to further show what fraud she is.
terrynever said:
It easy for me to say as someone who speaks only English, but I saw the interview and was surprised at how little English Pineda spoke. I'm surprised all players don't try to learn more English (and those Americans who go to play in Japan should try to learn Japanese).
It seemed especially puzzling for Pineda, in that he basically went two years without pitching. There are a lot of hours in the day, especially when you're not pitching. I'm surprised that even if the team didn't work with him on English that he didn't take the initiative himself.
curly2 said:
Not disagreeing with anything you say here and I realize that this isn't the point you're making, but on the flip side of the coin how many Spanish speaking teammates, coaches and staff does this guy have contact with each and EVERY day? IMO Pineda knew EXACTLY what he was doing and thought it was cute to offer up a big FU to the Red Sox, the city of Boston and it's fans. The Sox may not have made too much of the previous start where Pineda had pine tar smeared all over his hand, but it DID get a lot of run in the media here. I think he figured that as blatant as he's been about it, he's gotten away with it twice this season and the excess on his neck was just his way of saying "FU Boston." By the way, where are the MLB fashion police? They need to tell this ass clown and others like him to wear their caps like big leaguers.
EvilEmpire said:
So do you fellas subscribe to the theory, that Pineda's just a dumb kid? Seriously, not trolling here just genuinely interested in your thoughts as to why so much pine tar in such a conspicuous place?wibi said:
I wrote what I think happened earlier. He started the game without it. Was probably told not use it. He got hit hard in the 1st. Panicked. Went into the clubhouse and smeared some on. Came out, started the 2nd, got caught quick.
To expand a bit: since he was probably told not to use it, he may well have been furtive and hasty in applying it. Didn't have much time. Didn't think about how to hide it very well.
Again, to me it looks like he panicked after getting roughed up in the 1st and did something dumb.
To expand a bit: since he was probably told not to use it, he may well have been furtive and hasty in applying it. Didn't have much time. Didn't think about how to hide it very well.
Again, to me it looks like he panicked after getting roughed up in the 1st and did something dumb.
What he said. (And what you said, EE.)Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
This was a panic move by a guy who had no feel in the first inning.
snowmanny said:
Watching it again today - while I knew obviously it wouldn't happen - I was thinking it would have been hilarious if Jeter had wiped the pine tar off of Pineda's neck while the umpire was looking at his glove or something.
wibi said:
Rivalry, big stage, national coverage, Boston media response to the previous game.........some guys get wrapped up in that shit. I don't disagree with the reasoning offered for using the substance. Surely he's been told about it, told how to do it "the right way", so why so blatant?
Not really, Larry Rothschild said yesterday "It’s illegal no matter how you do it," Rothschild said. "Obviously you can tell him whatever you want, but it’s illegal no matter how you do it. You want me to tell him how to cheat better? That’s basically what it is."
http://www.lohud.com/story/sports/mlb/lohud-yankees/2014/04/24/postgame-notes-want-tell-cheat-better/8084875/
EDIT: I think that quote, coupled with the fact that he seemingly didn't have it on at all in the first, lean towards Rothschild telling Pineda "don't do it at all", rather than "if you do it, here's where to stick it"
http://www.lohud.com/story/sports/mlb/lohud-yankees/2014/04/24/postgame-notes-want-tell-cheat-better/8084875/
EDIT: I think that quote, coupled with the fact that he seemingly didn't have it on at all in the first, lean towards Rothschild telling Pineda "don't do it at all", rather than "if you do it, here's where to stick it"
Which would only make Rothschild the crown dunce of the whole affair. Pitching coaches discouraging stickum? Sure thing.
Sure, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It does, however, make a little more sense than Pineda willfuly ignoring his pitching coach, Joe Torre, his manager and probably his GM. I mean, look at the pictures up there. There's all insanely obvious, either they didn't teach him to hide it better for some reason or Pineda is an idiot.JimBoSox9 said:
EDIT: Or maybe it's as simple as Rothschild suggesting Clay's way of doing it but he couldn't get sunscreen in between innings and went for pine tar instead.
