Let's talk about Michael Pineda
- Thread starter jon abbey
- Start date
Joey Bats, Edwin Encarnacion and Adam Lind talked about Pineda after Saturday's game. Each had several ABs against Pineda in 2011 and made comparisons in this NY Daily News article by Mark Feinsand:
[SIZE=9pt]Jose Bautista, who was 1-for-8 with a walk and three strikeouts against Pineda in 2011, went 0-for-3 with a pair of flyouts and a three-pitch strikeout.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“His stuff is pretty much what I remember, but the thing he’s doing now is he has better command of his pitches,” Bautista said. “The life and zip that I remembered on his fastball, it was there again. It certainly feels like he has that back.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Edwin Encarnacion was 2-for-7 with a pair of strikeouts during Pineda’s rookie campaign. He’s now 2-for-10 after an 0-for-3 day that included a pair of weak popups.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“He looks great,” Encarnacion said. “He doesn’t have the same fastball at 97 or 98, but he had great command. Still a great fastball at 94 or 95, but consistent.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Adam Lind had the most success with Pineda coming in, taking him deep twice while going 3-for-9 overall against him in 2011. He was 1-for-2 with a second-inning double that led to the only run Pineda allowed, but Lind was impressed with what he saw from the 25-year-old.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“He looked a little more refined,” Lind said. “He was pretty much the same guy with better fastball command.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/feinsand-ancient-mariner-trade-paying-article-1.1747104[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Jose Bautista, who was 1-for-8 with a walk and three strikeouts against Pineda in 2011, went 0-for-3 with a pair of flyouts and a three-pitch strikeout.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“His stuff is pretty much what I remember, but the thing he’s doing now is he has better command of his pitches,” Bautista said. “The life and zip that I remembered on his fastball, it was there again. It certainly feels like he has that back.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Edwin Encarnacion was 2-for-7 with a pair of strikeouts during Pineda’s rookie campaign. He’s now 2-for-10 after an 0-for-3 day that included a pair of weak popups.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“He looks great,” Encarnacion said. “He doesn’t have the same fastball at 97 or 98, but he had great command. Still a great fastball at 94 or 95, but consistent.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Adam Lind had the most success with Pineda coming in, taking him deep twice while going 3-for-9 overall against him in 2011. He was 1-for-2 with a second-inning double that led to the only run Pineda allowed, but Lind was impressed with what he saw from the 25-year-old.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“He looked a little more refined,” Lind said. “He was pretty much the same guy with better fastball command.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/feinsand-ancient-mariner-trade-paying-article-1.1747104[/SIZE]
To me that is the exact colour and consistency of pine tar, including the shininess which would indicate it has been applied very recently.MakMan44 said:
It definitely looks like pine tar, but man that is a LOT. Hard to imagine how the ball wouldn't have been covered in it, which would've been really obvious to the ump. Maybe Kenny Rogers can give him some tips on keeping it more subtle.
I thought the same, but Pineda is a pretty big guy (6'7" according to mlb page) and most pitches (other than circle change, maybe others?) are gripped up in the fingers away from the palm, so that area shouldn't be in direct contact with the ball. At a guess I would say he has that there to touch his fingers on between pitches to get better grip, rather than to apply the tar to the ball directly. That would explain why it wouldn't be picked up by an umpire on the ball as well. It wouldn't result in a big wad of tar on the ball.cromulence said:
All in all I don't see it as a big deal, but at least make a bit of effort to conceal it!
Doesn't seem to be getting any air time anyway so doubt anythng will come of it unless he throws a no hitter or has a few great starts in a row.
jon abbey said:
A team whose pitchers have also been accused of doctoring the ball (Lester, Buchholz) so I doubt they want to open up that can of worms. It seems it might be prevalent enough that teams don't want to challenge since doing so could affect their own pitchers, and MLB seems content to look the other way
Did you get that doubt from how completely dismissive the team was of those accusations, or from the extended conversation around it detailing why 'doctoring the ball' and 'bullfrog sunscreen' are factually unequal things?Sampo Gida said:
Except for the pure souls challenging (accusing) the Red Sox pitchers, of course.
Pretty much all MLB pitchers are using something to help their grip these days. I don't think teams care unless they see a pitcher loading up the ball with stuff intended to change the movement of the pitch. Stuff like the sunscreen/rosin mixture and even a little pine tar is just to give the pitcher a better grip with sweaty hands. The only time I recall pine tar becoming an issue was when Davey Johnson called out ex-National Joel Peralta when they were playing the Rays and got him thrown out for pine tar being found on his cap by the umps after Johnson asked them to search Peralta for foreign substances.
“I thought he was great,” Dustin Pedroia said. “I have pine tar on my bat. That’s a non-issue. I thought he was better than us tonight.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/filthy-stuff-pineda-pine-tar-hand-yanks-win-sox-article-1.1752923#ixzz2yZYU9wTE
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/filthy-stuff-pineda-pine-tar-hand-yanks-win-sox-article-1.1752923#ixzz2yZYU9wTE
The Yankees did a bit of bitching about Kenny Rogers doing the same thing as a Tiger in 2006 playoffs. Larry Bowa was Torre's designated bitcher in this instance. The controversy continued into the series against the Cards where La Russa never complained.derekson said:
I wouldn't be surprised if MLB does advise Pineda to be a little more discreet in the future.
Olney today (Insider content):
"But another reason the Red Sox may have not said much is that they have known for weeks that Pineda is back to being what the Yankees thought they traded for before the 2012 season -- a right-hander capable of mixing fastballs in the mid-90s with a good breaking ball. Because Pineda uses his slurve to finish off hitters, this pitch gets a lot of attention, but Boston hitters say that Pineda’s most effective pitch is his fastball because of its natural cutting action, right to left, with the ball running away from right-handers and into left-handers.
He is precise, as well, and in his first two starts of this season, he has filled the strike zone against the Blue Jays and Red Sox, two teams with lineups capable of running deep counts. Pineda has walked just two in his first 12 innings, and even more impressively, he's reached three-ball counts with only seven of the first 46 hitters he's faced.
It's April 11 and we have only small sample sizes, but Pineda's success is real, and it's earned, and he looks as though he'll be a major factor for the Yankees, as they transition from the time when CC Sabathia's starts were must-win because of the lack of depth in the team's rotation."
"But another reason the Red Sox may have not said much is that they have known for weeks that Pineda is back to being what the Yankees thought they traded for before the 2012 season -- a right-hander capable of mixing fastballs in the mid-90s with a good breaking ball. Because Pineda uses his slurve to finish off hitters, this pitch gets a lot of attention, but Boston hitters say that Pineda’s most effective pitch is his fastball because of its natural cutting action, right to left, with the ball running away from right-handers and into left-handers.
He is precise, as well, and in his first two starts of this season, he has filled the strike zone against the Blue Jays and Red Sox, two teams with lineups capable of running deep counts. Pineda has walked just two in his first 12 innings, and even more impressively, he's reached three-ball counts with only seven of the first 46 hitters he's faced.
It's April 11 and we have only small sample sizes, but Pineda's success is real, and it's earned, and he looks as though he'll be a major factor for the Yankees, as they transition from the time when CC Sabathia's starts were must-win because of the lack of depth in the team's rotation."
Sampo Gida said:
Probably because it was first noticed when he was pitching against TOR in his previous start
I think this is a non-issue as far as performance goes, baseball is overflowing with examples of guys doing something for no discernable reason other than it keeps them in a routine and mentally happy, but I do hate that he's saying there was nothing on his hand but dirt. Tell the truth or say you don't want to talk about it, but don't flat out lie and say nothing was there. We can all see it.
Andrew said:
He can't do that, it would get him suspended. As it is, even without the umpires doing anything or the Red Sox complaining, Joe Torre still issued this statement:
"“The umpires did not observe an application of a foreign substance during the game and the issue was not raised by the Red Sox. Given those circumstances, there are no plans to issue a suspension, but we intend to talk to the Yankees regarding what occurred.”"
Oh good, Torre is gonna look into it. Hopefully, they can find Bob Watson and have him look into it as well 
jon abbey said:
He can't say he isn't going to talk about it? There's plenty of ways to evade the question if he is worried about it, but flat-out lying and saying nothing is there when it's plain as can be is insulting.
Well, Girardi said exactly that, and got roundly mocked (understandably). I don't think there's a good way to deal with it, but I am all for the route that keeps Pineda un-suspended (although that would help with his innings limit).
They should just change the rules and make certain substances legal for grip. If the standard reaction is "nobody cares, he was only guilty of being a bit too obvious," I think that's a sign that the rule is kind of worthless.
I didn't think I'd ever say this in any context, but thank you, Curt Schilling:
"Pineda said he soon found salvation in an ESPN article a coach brought to his attention. In the article, the former standout pitcher Curt Schilling, who had undergone shoulder surgery in 1995, was quoted as saying that he believed Pineda would recover and be a star again. The article was in English, so Pineda couldn’t read it, but he soon found himself asking friends, teammates and coaches to read it to him over and over again.
“I always had Curt Schilling on my mind,” Pineda said of the article. “I then started to look for as much information about his situation as possible, and to learn everything about him. And that brought me comfort and happiness. I thought about him all the time. And it showed me that my situation was not hopeless but that I just needed to work hard to get back.”"
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/sports/baseball/continuing-comeback-pineda-will-face-scrutiny-over-substance.html
"Pineda said he soon found salvation in an ESPN article a coach brought to his attention. In the article, the former standout pitcher Curt Schilling, who had undergone shoulder surgery in 1995, was quoted as saying that he believed Pineda would recover and be a star again. The article was in English, so Pineda couldn’t read it, but he soon found himself asking friends, teammates and coaches to read it to him over and over again.
“I always had Curt Schilling on my mind,” Pineda said of the article. “I then started to look for as much information about his situation as possible, and to learn everything about him. And that brought me comfort and happiness. I thought about him all the time. And it showed me that my situation was not hopeless but that I just needed to work hard to get back.”"
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/sports/baseball/continuing-comeback-pineda-will-face-scrutiny-over-substance.html
So I was thinking about starting a Pineda suspension thread, but given the "meh" his obvious pine tar transgressions prior to tonight got, I'm not quite sure this will result in anything. What's the precedence here? Why the hell would someone with his stuff need to blatantly cheat?
For posterity's sake, mentions of hitters using pine tar are irrelevant, because they can use spit as well. There's a reason for that free rosin bag out on the mound.
For posterity's sake, mentions of hitters using pine tar are irrelevant, because they can use spit as well. There's a reason for that free rosin bag out on the mound.
Pineda looked devastated talking to reporters. Admitted it was pine tar and said he applied it himself.
Was a little painful to watch actually. He's not armed linguistically to handle that kind of questioning.
Was Peralta given an official warning from the powers that be to cease and desist? Because from everything I've seen tonight from Cashman and Girardi, Pineda was told in no uncertain terms by Torre to knock it off. I don't think that will help him—sure didn't help BB with Goodell.