Let's say BB stays on until he retires. What does that mean for the franchise?

[Petagine in a Bottle]

The idea that this is a bridge year is just being made up because the team stinks. It’s the same thing we heard when the Sox had their swoon too. What is the evidence for it?

This team spent a lot of money in an attempt to win now. That they are also starting a rookie QB is curious, but may just be owed to Belichick’s hubris. They went 7-9 last year (but lots of close losses!) and then won the offseason and upgraded at QB…the intent was to contend, what’s the evidence that this was a rebuilding year?

 

[SMU_Sox]

As to the level of talent on the team… offensively they splurged on 2 tight ends who combined are averaging 60 yards receiving per game as well as on Agholor who is averaging 37. They traded for Trent Brown. They have millions of dollars on offense doing jack shit.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

At 72, BB will still be the best coach in the league. He seems to have plenty of energy still. So yes, they have time. I mean, maybe YOU don't have the patience for this, but that's an issue with you.

This statement appears to be speculation as opposed to factual. You could be right but I would argue that it's doubtful. I don't see such an advanced age being an asset in NFL coaching.

 

[ragnarok725]

The idea that this is a bridge year is just being made up because the team stinks. It’s the same thing we heard when the Sox had their swoon too. What is the evidence for it?

The evidence is that they are starting a rookie QB. They had Cam Newton - maybe the worst regular starter in the league last year, and they drafted a rookie in the middle of the first. If it was any team but the Patriots and you had a mid-first rookie as the starting QB, would you really be shocked with the results? What were you expecting?

The upside from the beginning was always 9 wins and a wild card spot. They've had some games break badly for them and it looks like they won't hit that upside. But this was never a Brady year. The only people making things up are those who somehow think the results this year are unexpected.

The team spent money because it had a ton of cap room open due to not spending at QB and a historically depressed market due to where the cap was. They made a bunch of pretty good FA deals it looks like, and took advantage of a market position. It didn't mean they were in "win now" mode.

 

[jsinger121]

As to the level of talent on the team… offensively they splurged on 2 tight ends who combined are averaging 60 yards receiving per game as well as on Agholor who is averaging 37. They traded for Trent Brown. They have millions of dollars on offense doing jack shit.

Hence why they were available in the first place. If they were star players neither the Chargers or Titans let them walk.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Hence why they were available in the first place. If they were star players neither the Chargers or Titans let them walk.

I don't think it's an issue with their talent. It's an issue with the offensive playcalling. They're not targeting them.

 

[lexrageorge]

You are wrong, and I have argued with others about the talent level. I do think the team has talent, and a good deal of it. Coaching and conservative play calling are absolutely killing them.

I do not count almost-wins as anything at all. They are losses. Bad teams lose games. Period. Doesn't matter who the opponent is, or the margin.

The bolded is incorrect. That fact is disappointing, as I think we were hoping the talent would be better than what it has shown to date. But the plays on the field don't lie. Consider:

The OL has been one of the league's worst when it comes to pass blocking, no matter what the PFF folks say. The eye test matters, and what the eyes see is a rookie QB under constant pressure every time he has to drop back.

The tight ends are indeed much better than last year, or at least one of them (Henry) is. Jonnu Smith has been a huge disappointment, but it seems as if he benefited from an outlier performance in a contract year. Among the receivers, Agholor has been plagued by drops all his career, and is still doing the same. Bourne is a rotational piece. Myers has starting talent for the position, but none of these guys are CeeDee Lamb or Amari Cooper or Julian Edelman.

On the defensive side, Barmore seems to be the only DL that doesn't get played off the ball every down. Aside from Uche and Judon, the linebackers are old and slow, much like the LB corps was in 2009 (a huge weakness of that team which was downplayed for some reason). And just like in 2009, old and slow linebackers are the death knell when it comes to situational defense.

The secondary is probably league average at best. McCourty isn't the McCourty of old. Mills is useless. Dugger was badly over drafted as it turns out. JC Jackson has to do a lot by himself.

There is talent, but too much of it on offense is rotational level talent, and the talent on the defensive side of the ball is not enough to cover for the aging Hightower, Van Noy and Collins, just like in 2009 it wasn't enough to cover for Derrick Burgess and Adalius Thomas.

 

[lexrageorge]

I don't think it's an issue with their talent. It's an issue with the offensive playcalling. They're not targeting them.

Hunter Henry averaged just under 44 yards per game receiving last season, and is at just above 40 this year. Jonnu Smith averaged 29 last year, and is averaging 20, as he is being forced to block a lot.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

In terms of talent, what players are opposing coaching staffs worried about in their game plan? Judon I'll give you. Who else? Harris/Stevenson look above average at RB, Hunter Henry has made some nice plays. Barmore looks like he has some ability and has to be accounted for. Who else do opposing coaches have to worry about? I agree they have a bunch of rotational level guys who are adequate for their position, but they lack difference makers on both sides of the ball.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

The evidence is that they are starting a rookie QB. They had Cam Newton - maybe the worst regular starter in the league last year, and they drafted a rookie in the middle of the first. If it was any team but the Patriots and you had a mid-first rookie as the starting QB, would you really be shocked with the results? What were you expecting?

The upside from the beginning was always 9 wins and a wild card spot. They've had some games break badly for them and it looks like they won't hit that upside. But this was never a Brady year. The only people making things up are those who somehow think the results this year are unexpected.

The team spent money because it had a ton of cap room open due to not spending at QB and a historically depressed market due to where the cap was. They made a bunch of pretty good FA deals it looks like, and took advantage of a market position. It didn't mean they were in "win now" mode.

Cam was terrible, the idea was that a new QB alone would be an upgrade and that the returning players from last years opt outs and the new guys would help too. Most projections seemed to have them between 8-10 wins which seems optimistic now. They are basically the same team they were last year- at this point they were also 2-4 with 2 close losses.

Though, they still have plenty of time to right the ship, even last year they got to 6-6 and were a fringe contender before the wheels fell off. I have to think ownership and coaching staff were expecting better performance than this, though.

 

[Rico Guapo]

They rushed 3. Gave Dak all day to throw. Schemed up something that failed miserably. You cannot allow that to happen under any circumstances. The lack of ability to come up with the big stop has been a major issue with the defense all season. We saw it in the Miami game, the NO game, and the Tampa game. We saw it again yesterday. With the game on the line they fail. Constantly.

The defense has threeish impact players (Judon, Dugger, Barmore, Uche sometimes) and the rest are JAGs or too old (McCourty, Hightower, KVN), you can only do so much with schemes to cover up the lack of talent.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Cam was terrible, the idea was that a new QB alone would be an upgrade and that the returning players from last years opt outs and the new guys would help too. Most projections seemed to have them between 8-10 wins which seems optimistic now. They are basically the same team they were last year- at this point they were also 2-4 with 2 close losses.

Though, they still have plenty of time to right the ship, even last year they got to 6-6 and were a fringe contender before the wheels fell off. I have to think ownership and coaching staff were expecting better performance than this, though.

Anyone who thought that a rookie QB was going to be a significant improvement on Cam was fooling themselves. Cam was different in type and effects what offense you run but his performance was 25-28th in the league, with a bit of red zone/running upside. We weren't likely to get much better than that from a rookie.

 

[Super Nomario]

The team spent money because it had a ton of cap room open due to not spending at QB and a historically depressed market due to where the cap was. They made a bunch of pretty good FA deals it looks like, and took advantage of a market position. It didn't mean they were in "win now" mode.

These are pretty good deals? Judon, yes, Henry maybe but I'm not seeing it from Jonnu Smith or Agholor. And they weren't bargains by any means. Smith and Henry are the third- and fourth-highest-paid TEs. Agholor, who signed for a song last year, is making $22 MM over 2 years. They paid market but aren't getting those kind of results.

The bargains were, as they usually are, at the lower-tier of the market and later, but they decided to strike early and pay market rate. The early returns are poor.

Probably the most concerning part of this year is the lack of growth from young players. The 2020 draftees should be building on last year, but Jennings and Keene got hurt / took a redshirt, Asiasi is a healthy scratch week in and week out, Uche hasn't expanded his role at all beyond last year, Onwenu and Herron have taken steps back. Dugger is the only guy that's really showing out. 2019 looks like a one-player draft (Harris) with Harry and Williams huge busts, and the $10 MM they're on the hook for with Wynn next year doesn't look great.

It seems like every year we get excited about the rookies, only to see them fail to make jumps in Y2. But this year's rookie class looks great, can't wait for them to make the leap in 2022!

 

[Rico Guapo]

Anyone who thought that a rookie QB was going to be a significant improvement on Cam was fooling themselves. Cam was different in type and effects what offense you run but his performance was 25-28th in the league, with a bit of red zone/running upside. We weren't likely to get much better than that from a rookie.

There is NO chance Cam does anything close to what Mac is pulling off behind this awful OL.

Zero.

None.

 

[The Social Chair]

Wasnt the strategy to build a veteran team around a QB on a team friendly rookie deal? Belichick built the team with the intention of having a great defense, a dominant offensive line & run game, and rookie QB who would manage the game. The offensive line being a disaster is what killed their plans.

I don't buy the bridge year angle. Kraft probably doesn't either after the money he spent this off-season.

 

[Cellar-Door]

There is NO chance Cam does anything close to what Mac is pulling off behind this awful OL.

Zero.

None.

The entire offense would be different, Cam would run it a lot more, the line would likely look different running option looks. It's impossible to say, that's the point, they are totally different QB types, so you run different offense. You also get significantly different defensive looks. Mac is getting blitzed a lot on early downs, Cam would likely be less so because teams like to use a spy on him to prevent edge rushes.

That isn't the point anyway, the point is that rookie QBs are usually bottom 5-9 in the league, and that's Cam's range. You shouldn't have reasonably expected a big jump in QB play from a rookie, and if Bill built for this year thinking he'd make a rookie QB top half of the league he IS losing it. I don't think he did though, I think he thought he would have a defense and run game good enough to win with a bad QB, but the running game collapsed.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I don't think it's an issue with their talent. It's an issue with the offensive playcalling. They're not targeting them.

I think it is a talent issue but it might correct itself in time. They signed Agholor after a career year with the Raiders. In Philly he was a 37 yards per game guy. With the Raiders he was a downfield threat and a 56 yards per game guy. They paid him for his production in LV and now he is playing like he did in Philly. Too many drops. They even benched him for his shitty route running vs the Texans.

Hunter Henry is a nice receiving TE. He is a bad blocker. They rotate which TE they use in 11 - if they want to run more they will keep Jonnu in to block, usually in-line. If they are wanting to throw they will use Henry. Jonnu and Henry will be more productive when they can actually use 12 successfully. Can they get there? Maybe. Problem is Jonnu isn't Gronk. He's 6' 3" 248 pounds and has struggled with taking on DLs, edges, and even bigger LBs this year. You can't run 12 without at least one tight end who can in-line block well. To be able to use 12 efficiently you need to be able to run block well by everyone. The line probably had their best run blocking of the year last night. Maybe Herron - Karras - Andrews - Mason (when he gets back) - Onwenu is the line they use going forward. Agholor is arguably their worst receiver but he is their only X so when they go 12 they would use Agholor and either Meyers or Bourne but right now Meyers and Bourne are their best receiving weapons. So they basically have to play out of 11 or be without one of their two best options. It's possible with OL run blocking better that they can run more 12. It's also possible they go 11 and more spread out.

I think it is possible they misevaluated Agholor and Jonnu. Agholor is only 2 years. But Jonnu? You aren't getting out of that until after 2023. They have so many holes on the roster next year and they paid 4/$50 to a tight end who isn't blocking well AND who is averaging 20 yards receiving a game. Belichick the GM might have really fucked up there.

 

[ragnarok725]

Cam was terrible, the idea was that a new QB alone would be an upgrade and that the returning players from last years opt outs and the new guys would help too. Most projections seemed to have them between 8-10 wins which seems optimistic now. They are basically the same team they were last year- at this point they were also 2-4 with 2 close losses.

Though, they still have plenty of time to right the ship, even last year they got to 6-6 and were a fringe contender before the wheels fell off. I have to think ownership and coaching staff were expecting better performance than this, though.

Their record isn't reflecting it yet due to some rough breaks and mistakes in high leverage situations, but I think we agree that they're a .500 team that has mostly played like it. Nothing about that screams failures of coaching or general management to me. It's a normal cycle.

These are pretty good deals? Judon, yes, Henry maybe but I'm not seeing it from Jonnu Smith or Agholor. And they weren't bargains by any means. Smith and Henry are the third- and fourth-highest-paid TEs. Agholor, who signed for a song last year, is making $22 MM over 2 years. They paid market but aren't getting those kind of results.

The bargains were, as they usually are, at the lower-tier of the market and later, but they decided to strike early and pay market rate. The early returns are poor.

Probably the most concerning part of this year is the lack of growth from young players. The 2020 draftees should be building on last year, but Jennings and Keene got hurt / took a redshirt, Asiasi is a healthy scratch week in and week out, Uche hasn't expanded his role at all beyond last year, Onwenu and Herron have taken steps back. Dugger is the only guy that's really showing out. 2019 looks like a one-player draft (Harris) with Harry and Williams huge busts, and the $10 MM they're on the hook for with Wynn next year doesn't look great.

It seems like every year we get excited about the rookies, only to see them fail to make jumps in Y2. But this year's rookie class looks great, can't wait for them to make the leap in 2022!

Judon looks like a home run. Henry is solid and I think will continue to be so. They haven't cut Jonnu loose yet, and he had the one horrible game against New Orleans that is certainly a factor in the judgment but the jury is still out there. I think Bourne looks decent. Agholor has been a disappointment but he didn't get huge dollars relative to Judon or the TEs. Overall, the returns have been OK given what they paid. No gross negligence.

The problem has been underperformance by some long-time veterans and some 2nd and 3rd year players not making the leap they need to. That plus some bad luck and high leverage mistakes that tilt the record and make the results lag behind the true performance level of the team.

 

[Ed Hillel]

As to the level of talent on the team… offensively they splurged on 2 tight ends who combined are averaging 60 yards receiving per game as well as on Agholor who is averaging 37. They traded for Trent Brown. They have millions of dollars on offense doing jack shit.

Well, Trent Brown isn't playing, so it's hard to count that as talent on the field. It basically all starts with the OL, so it's damned near impossible to judge the talent positions because Smith is needed to block and Mac has no time to throw to anyone. Mac is also a rookie, so you'd expect his targets to suffer a bit relative to years they spent playing with vet QBs.

But, mostly, it's the OL.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Well, Trent Brown isn't playing, so it's hard to count that as talent on the field. It basically all starts with the OL, so it's damned near impossible to judge the talent positions because Smith is needed to block and Mac has no time to throw to anyone. Mac is also a rookie, so you'd expect his targets to suffer a bit relative to years they spent playing with vet QBs.

But, mostly, it's the OL.

Some of those hits on Mac yesterday were so fast that I assumed he had blown a pre-snap protection read and left a man totally unblocked. Couldn't believe how quickly linemen were getting rag-dolled. Fix the OL and everything else will follow, to some degree at least.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Some of those hits on Mac yesterday were so fast that I assumed he had blown a pre-snap protection read and left a man totally unblocked. Couldn't believe how quickly linemen were getting rag-dolled. Fix the OL and everything else will follow, to some degree at least.

The fumble on the Gregory sack was on 2nd and 17 where Josh thought it would be a great idea to call a play action pass, in a situation where the defense knew the run would never happen. Stuff like that is killing the team.

 

[BaseballJones]

But basically it's a very bad sign. McCarthy is an AWFUL coach. He couldn't even win with Rodgers. Getting outcoached by him should essentially never happen. No one ever claimed that BB was infallible but his coaching decisions yesterday were inexplicably terrible.

That's silly. The best coaches sometimes "lose" the coaching battle to inferior coaches. Some days you pull the right strings; some days you don't. BB will out coach McCarthy way more than the other way around.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Well, Trent Brown isn't playing, so it's hard to count that as talent on the field. It basically all starts with the OL, so it's damned near impossible to judge the talent positions because Smith is needed to block and Mac has no time to throw to anyone. Mac is also a rookie, so you'd expect his targets to suffer a bit relative to years they spent playing with vet QBs.

But, mostly, it's the OL.

But Trent Brown had an extensive injury history when they traded for him. He's had calf issues. He isn't playing right now because of a calf issue. He isn't on the field for predictable reasons. I don't mind the gamble there either but... this is obviously one of the reasons why Brown was available in trade.

It does start with the OL but you can judge Jonnu despite the poor OL play because he not been a good blocker himself. He's also been hit or miss as a pass catcher.

And I think you can judge Agholor too - his flat curl route directly resulted in the INT in the HOU game. He got benched. If you argued that the OL play was making it more difficult to judge the skilled guys I wouldn't argue with that. But to say it is impossible is a stretch. Meyers, for example, has played well despite the bad OL. Also, you can still see who is running routes well or who is catching/dropping the ball.

 

[BaseballJones]

This statement appears to be speculation as opposed to factual. You could be right but I would argue that it's doubtful. I don't see such an advanced age being an asset in NFL coaching.

The age isn't an asset. But he's so much better than everyone else, even a BB with a diminished fastball - barring some catastrophic drop-off - will be better than the alternative.

 

[Melrose Diner]

This is a bad answer that shows a complete lack of situational awareness. He should get killed for that answer—and then the question is whether he learns from it, or whether he’s now just too set in his ways.

Now I feel worse about the Folk field goal try last week because it feels like the result of an analytical flaw, not that a correct analytical conclusion was reached.

He’s 100% set in his ways and it’s damaging the team. Look at one of his radio answers this morning. When asked about the blocked punts, he said they’re “not doing anything different from the past”. Well, if that’s his organizational philosophy they’re in big, big trouble. The game is a lot different than it was in 2002 and you’re seeing what happens if you try and pretend it isn’t.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

He’s 100% set in his ways and it’s damaging the team. Look at one of his radio answers this morning. When asked about the blocked punts, he said they’re “not doing anything different from the past”. Well, if that’s his organizational philosophy they’re in big, big trouble. The game is a lot different than it was in 2002 and you’re seeing what happens if you try and pretend it isn’t.

That's not what he said yesterday about the block, he said they missed an assignment.

 

[GreyisGone]

I just can’t believe we’re two decades into this and debating answers Belichick gives publicly as if they are his real thoughts.

 

[Melrose Diner]

That's not what he said yesterday about the block, he said they missed an assignment.

View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1450052912495960070?s=21

 

[lexrageorge]

They have run that quick change punt play before. It's in their playbook, and it's on the players on the field to execute it. I still think the coaches messed up a bit, as it seemed more hurried than usual, and I still think the spot was egregiously wrong and worth challenging. But I don't expect Belichick to throw any specific players or coaches under the bus, no matter how bad the outcome was. He's never done that, and he's not going to start doing that now (nor do I think he should).

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think it is possible they misevaluated Agholor and Jonnu. Agholor is only 2 years. But Jonnu? You aren't getting out of that until after 2023. They have so many holes on the roster next year and they paid 4/$50 to a tight end who isn't blocking well AND who is averaging 20 yards receiving a game. Belichick the GM might have really fucked up there.

I liked Jonnu a lot in TEN, but he and Henry is an awkward fit. Jonnu is a guy who should be running routes on at least 60% of his snaps. He's an okay blocker in that situation. Henry is barely a TE. I get that the O-line has been bad, but keeping Jonnu in on 75% of his snaps is just a waste.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I liked Jonnu a lot in TEN, but he and Henry is an awkward fit. Jonnu is a guy who should be running routes on at least 60% of his snaps. He's an okay blocker in that situation. Henry is barely a TE. I get that the O-line has been bad, but keeping Jonnu in on 75% of his snaps is just a waste.

Hat tip to SN who just made that point elsewhere. You need an in-line guy who is a good blocker to make this work and neither either are that (for sure Henry isn’t) or probably isn’t that and is playing poorly doing it (Jonnu). And they spent a ton making that decision/risk/gamble.

 

[Super Nomario]

I liked Jonnu a lot in TEN, but he and Henry is an awkward fit. Jonnu is a guy who should be running routes on at least 60% of his snaps. He's an okay blocker in that situation. Henry is barely a TE. I get that the O-line has been bad, but keeping Jonnu in on 75% of his snaps is just a waste.

This is a major issue. Neither one can handle the traditional Y blocking assignments. They have two F tight ends and honestly they don't even really need any F tight ends. Jonnu should be in the Hernandez role but he's playing the Gronk role because Henry can't handle the Gronk role either. They complement each other poorly.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Hat tip to SN who just made that point elsewhere. You need an in-line guy who is a good blocker to make this work and neither either are that (for sure Henry isn’t) or probably isn’t that and is playing poorly doing it (Jonnu). And they spent a ton making that decision/risk/gamble.

It isn't working clearly. Jonnu as part-time blocker and mostly route guy is fine. But Henry is basically a big WR.

They got the QB that they wanted to run Josh's offense, but not the TEs. Even with a functional OL, that would still be a bit of a problem imo.

They're going to have to refactor the 12 personnel stuff and fast.

Edit: what SN said too

 

[BigJimEd]

View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1450052912495960070?s=21

Right. That play had nothing to do with the game changing over the past decade or so. It was poor execution. Coach it better does not necessarily mean scheme it better. Coaching is technique as well. Belichick almost always includes coach better along with play better when he discussing missed plays and games lost. Team effort including coaching staff..

 

[RIrooter09]

I think we're in for a few more years of mediocre drafts/FA classes before Kraft brings in a personnel guy to replace BB. Whether he stays on as coach only or just retires is the question.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Asiasi has been a healthy scratch. Look, I am just speculating here but... could they activate him and give him a shot as their in-line guy?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

The fumble on the Gregory sack was on 2nd and 17 where Josh thought it would be a great idea to call a play action pass, in a situation where the defense knew the run would never happen. Stuff like that is killing the team.

Running a draw in that spot was a real option. Pick up 5-6 yards and you have a much easier FG plus a convertible 3rd down. The PA froze the LBs, which is the point. I haven't looked at the all-22 but it seems to me like they had the look they wanted, but then Mac got whalloped in .1 seconds because Cajuste.

 

[cshea]

Right. That play had nothing to do with the game changing over the past decade or so. It was poor execution. Coach it better does not necessarily mean scheme it better. Coaching is technique as well. Belichick almost always includes coach better along with play better when he discussing missed plays and games lost. Team effort including coaching staff..

It wasn't executed, but they coaches also didn't really put them in the best position to succeed. Whether it was indecisiveness on going for it/challenging or an intentional late decision to punt to try and catch the Cowboys napping, everything ended up being rushed which leads to missed blocking assignments.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Asiasi has been a healthy scratch. Look, I am just speculating here but... could they activate him and give him a shot as their in-line guy?

I would laugh if we start getting 23 and 13 personnel groupings

 

[lexrageorge]

I think we're in for a few more years of mediocre drafts/FA classes before Kraft brings in a personnel guy to replace BB. Whether he stays on as coach only or just retires is the question.

I don't believe mediocre drafts are a foregone conclusion going forward. If that does happen, Belichick will probably be given an option to gracefully retire; if not, he just gets replaced. And it's probably Jonathan who will have the most say in the succession plan, not Robert.

 

[NickEsasky]

The fumble on the Gregory sack was on 2nd and 17 where Josh thought it would be a great idea to call a play action pass, in a situation where the defense knew the run would never happen. Stuff like that is killing the team.

What would have mattered if it wasn't play-action? Gregory was in the backfield and on Mac in about 1 second flat. That's on the O-line, not the play calling.

 

[RIrooter09]

I don't believe mediocre drafts are a foregone conclusion going forward. If that does happen, Belichick will probably be given an option to gracefully retire; if not, he just gets replaced. And it's probably Jonathan who will have the most say in the succession plan, not Robert.

Hence why I said Kraft, not Robert or Jonathan. Not sure who will be running the ship when the time comes.

 

[BigJimEd]

It wasn't executed, but they coaches also didn't really put them in the best position to succeed. Whether it was indecisiveness on going for it/challenging or an intentional late decision to punt to try and catch the Cowboys napping, everything ended up being rushed which leads to missed blocking assignments.

Not sure that was much of a factor but either way, what does that have to do with the game passing Belichick by which was the poster's original point?

 

[SMU_Sox]

Did Gregory beat a guy or shoot through an abandoned gap if they pulled a guard for the PA? Anyone have that up or remember? I thought he just cleanly beat Cajuste.

 

[BigJimEd]

I think we're in for a few more years of mediocre drafts/FA classes before Kraft brings in a personnel guy to replace BB. Whether he stays on as coach only or just retires is the question.

I think this is a little premature, remember Caserio left last offseason. We need to see how the front office shakes out and that will be Belichick's decision.

Ziegler seems to be the main guy but Wolf could have a large voice as well assuming they are here next season. Patricia, for some reason, was also fairly involved in personnel last off season as well.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Did Gregory beat a guy or shoot through an abandoned gap if they pulled a guard for the PA? Anyone have that up or remember? I thought he just cleanly beat Cajuste.

Just went around him.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I would laugh if we start getting 23 and 13 personnel groupings

I'd love to see some 23.

 

[RIrooter09]

I think this is a little premature, remember Caserio left last offseason. We need to see how the front office shakes out and that will be Belichick's decision.

Ziegler seems to be the main guy but Wolf could have a large voice as well assuming they are here next season. Patricia, for some reason, was also fairly involved in personnel last off season as well.

Ok step one. Fire Patricia into the sun.

 

[TrotWaddles]

A few miles off the fastball doesn't matter when your Maddux.

I think Josh needs to get the plays in faster for Mac to get through his presnap reads and progressions. JM was spoiled with the experience of Brady and it is showing a bit here. The punt block failure was unusual to say the least. The O Line is not good. I think everyone see that. If there is anyway BB can send Scar some Ovaltine and Centrum Silver to get him back in the fight, it would be appreciated---most of all by Mac. Finally, yes the defense is slow but when the offense is only on the field for 20 damn minutes, the defense is going to be a little run down. That's going to get worse as the season progresses if the offense doesn't figure out how to string some drives together.

 

[Shelterdog]

Ok step one. Fire Patricia into the sun.

One of the problems is that this is a black box. For all we know Patricia was saying don't sign Aholor and Smith and re-sign Thuney.

The results on the field are bad and the results from the off-season not great--but it's just incredibly hard to reasonably apportion responsibility. It's not characterisitc that they're having so many formation/delay issues on offense for example but it that because they have inexperienced players in the system? are they running too complext a system for the players? Is there some other kind of disorganization? I have no idea.