Let's Go Bowling - and the Remainder of FCS, Too

McBride11

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Since 2000, every single player that has signed and played at least 3 years at either LSU or Alabama has won at least one National Championship - every single one
 

Royal Reader

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A stacked deck, no matter how it gets stacked, is still a stacked deck. I gave him credit for his recruiting success, I’m just also recognizing its an advantage. An advantage he works hard to sustain no less, but its a bit easier at Alabama than at most places.

I’m also not interested in the basketball version of this discussion. One and done’s in CBB make it a different animal. No one is winning 5 titles in 9 years in CBB. I think Calipari does a hell of a job considering his players are actually only in Kentucky for about 9 months out of their entire life.
Stacked deck implies it's largely luck, or something that fell into his lap without skill or effort having much to do with it. Given that his recruiting advantage is pretty much entirely due to his skill at recruiting - there are at least six or seven places in the country it is clearly easier to recruit to, and probably another five to ten that are comparable - it's bizarre to use that metaphor to describe Saban's success. He's incredibly good at a crucial part of the job.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Stacked deck implies it's largely luck, or something that fell into his lap without skill or effort having much to do with it. Given that his recruiting advantage is pretty much entirely due to his skill at recruiting - there are at least six or seven places in the country it is clearly easier to recruit to, and probably another five to ten that are comparable - it's bizarre to use that metaphor to describe Saban's success. He's incredibly good at a crucial part of the job.
I'm not using the term to imply luck. I'm using it to specifically mean his roster has better players than every other team in the NCAA. He's responsible for that and I give him credit for all of it. He's a great recruiter. But Bama is a brand. Saban is a brand. The facilities have all been expanded over the last decade. He's in the CFP every year. They win the natty every other year. He turns out high draft picks every year. It's just easier at Bama right now. I also think he's a great coach and a great program CEO, I just have trouble defining how great he is as a coach because you can't pull recruiting out of it. That's all I'm saying.

But I disagree that there are 6-7 schools that have a recruiting advantage over Bama. You may argue that there are schools located in the middle of more fertile recruiting areas and I'll give you that. But I don't think that matters as much as it did back in the 70's and 80's, when schools recruited closer to home. Today's coaches jump on a helicopters, land on practice fields, and see different players on different fields in the Atlanta area on a Friday night. But I don't think Bama will ever recruit as well as they do right now unless Dabo ends up there. Saban is good at what he does. I'll never deny that.
 

Marciano490

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I'm not using the term to imply luck. I'm using it to specifically mean his roster has better players than every other team in the NCAA. He's responsible for that and I give him credit for all of it. He's a great recruiter. But Bama is a brand. Saban is a brand. The facilities have all been expanded over the last decade. He's in the CFP every year. They win the natty every other year. He turns out high draft picks every year. It's just easier at Bama right now. I also think he's a great coach and a great program CEO, I just have trouble defining how great he is as a coach because you can't pull recruiting out of it. That's all I'm saying.

But I disagree that there are 6-7 schools that have a recruiting advantage over Bama. You may argue that there are schools located in the middle of more fertile recruiting areas and I'll give you that. But I don't think that matters as much as it did back in the 70's and 80's, when schools recruited closer to home. Today's coaches jump on a helicopters, land on practice fields, and see different players on different fields in the Atlanta area on a Friday night. But I don't think Bama will ever recruit as well as they do right now unless Dabo ends up there. Saban is good at what he does. I'll never deny that.
You don't think all things being equal it's not much harder selling a 17 year old kid on going to Tuscaloosa, Alabama than Los Angeles or Miami?
 

Ale Xander

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You don't think all things being equal it's not much harder selling a 17 year old kid on going to Tuscaloosa, Alabama than Los Angeles or Miami?
Miami, maybe.

But he's pretty much dead in the middle between east Texas/Louisiana and Florida. He can easily come into the player's house and explain to the parents that the kid will be closer to home, rather than going to Columbus/Ann Arbor and LA. And he can probably also sell them on fewer distractions and he can enjoy the nightlife after he's earned a first round paycheck.

I agree with Paul. No way 6+ schools have an advantage over Bama '18. Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Florida are all top 10 talent pools. SC and MS ain't bad for their size either.
 

johnmd20

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Miami, maybe.

But he's pretty much dead in the middle between east Texas/Louisiana and Florida. He can easily come into the player's house and explain to the parents that the kid will be closer to home, rather than going to Columbus/Ann Arbor and LA. And he can probably also sell them on fewer distractions and he can enjoy the nightlife after he's earned a first round paycheck.

I agree with Paul. No way 6+ schools have an advantage over Bama '18. Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Florida are all top 10 talent pools. SC and MS ain't bad for their size either.
He can also sell them on the fact that the players will likely be playing for the National Championship, which would give them the most possible exposure, especially if the NFL is a possibility. He could also entice them with the fact that it is likely they will not only be playing for the Championship, watched by tens of millions, but they will probably win it.

Saban's success is one of his greatest selling points. It should be, I despise Alabama but what he's done is nothing short of incredible.
 

Ale Xander

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Based on the last 3 years, Saban doesn't need to go to a place like Manhattan Beach, CA to recruit the Josh Rosen type who wants to go to an LA or Miami.

But if he does go for the dropback type, as a case in point, Matt Flynn and Greg McElroy were TX recruits. McCarron from Mobile. And he obviously can get his trench and speed guys from the above areas, too.
Alabama is a perfect place to recruit from.
 

Marciano490

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Oh, I thought the argument was that if every team was starting from scratch and next year's rankings and bowl hopes were irrelevant, Alabama would still be a top 6 destination based on history and location.
 

dcmissle

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Miami? LA?

Understand the target audience. Every member of every recruiting class has a plausible shot at the NFL. And they are not knuckleheads. And they are not afraid of competition — Christ, every position is stacked 3,4,5 deep.

So they are going to have an LA or Miami lean because the pussy is better there and the clubs more plentiful?

Please. They are there to work. They are the athletic equivalent of BUD/S recruits. And after they get out, the Donta Hightowers and Jonathan Allens, they still think Saban is God.

This is a virtuous circle. Everyone wants to play there, everyone wants to coach there. It ends only when Saban retires, gets sick or otherwise loses his powers.
 

Marciano490

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Miami? LA?

Understand the target audience. Every member of every recruiting class has a plausible shot at the NFL. And they are not knuckleheads. And they are not afraid of competition — Christ, every position is stacked 3,4,5 deep.

So they are going to have an LA or Miami lean because the pussy is better there and the clubs more plentiful?

Please. They are there to work. They are the athletic equivalent of BUD/S recruits. And after they get out, the Donta Hightowers and Jonathan Allens, they still think Saban is God.

This is a virtuous circle. Everyone wants to play there, everyone wants to coach there. It ends only when Saban retires, gets sick or otherwise loses his powers.
Yeah. They're 17-18. I don't know where you're getting this idea as college athletes as machines. At that level, even a lot of highly ranked recruits are doing it mostly on talent. Come one, how many of these guys did you see drinking or partying in college?
 

PaulinMyrBch

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You don't think all things being equal it's not much harder selling a 17 year old kid on going to Tuscaloosa, Alabama than Los Angeles or Miami?
I’m advocating for a Celebrity Wife Swap style reality show for college football staffs. Take Saban and all his coaches and send them to Morgantown to coach Will Grier and the 3-3-5. Then Holgorsen and staff get to go to Tuscaloosa and see what they can do with some D line talent. Ratings Gold!