Let's get crazy (risky acquisitions and offseason plans)

sean1562

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 17, 2011
2,909
I really think this season turns on the development of Benintendi and Devers. If they can hit more like .850-.900 OPS guys, I think we can be competitive, especially if we sign someone like JD Martinez. I don't expect a lot more out of Xander and Hanley. A little improvement from Mookie and this is a great team
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
17,384
Rogers Park
SF already tipped their hand to Boras in their pursuit of Stanton. Do you really think they go from willing to shell out $250m and that rumored package to flinching over having to pay out more then $150m to secure the guy who will happily take their money in JD Martinez?
SF shouldn't want Martinez. The only problem they had that was worse than their lack of power was their lack of OF defense — which basically ate Matt Moore and Samardzija alive — and he's one of the few players who would make that problem *worse.*

I don't think they're interested.
 

sean1562

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 17, 2011
2,909
IDK what the Giants are going to do. After striking out on Ohtani and Stanton, they are not even close to being a competitive team. JD Martinez in left would still make them a last place team. Might as well sit out and throw themselves into next offseason hard.
 

ConigsCorner

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 22, 2001
557
Denver, CO
Why did want to go the Yankees over the Red Sox than?
That should be a major concern in the future as why a star player didn't want to come to the Red Sox over the Yankees.
For some reason Stanton felt the Yankees were a team he would waive his no-trade for,while the Red Sox he wouldn't.
That to me is concerning.
Clearly, this guy is an MFY troll. Nice moniker, pal......you fool no one.
 

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
2,923
Florida
IDK what the Giants are going to do. After striking out on Ohtani and Stanton, they are not even close to being a competitive team. JD Martinez in left would still make them a last place team. Might as well sit out and throw themselves into next offseason hard.
Yet every piece of speculation coming out of SF is suggesting that *they* don't see it being the lost cause that you do.

I actually think there is at least a decent chance JD Martinez gets done at the winter meetings. With SF being aggressive enough in a decision to not risk getting left in the cold a 3rd time.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,710
Martinez and then Schwarber (for JBJ, not Ben10D) would put my in a much more optimistic mood and it's a realistic move also. I'd be somewhat worried about the defense during away games. The Monster can mask bad defense.... and then move Martinez to DH for away games, but Schwarber and Hanley would be clogging up that option. Yes, obviously if Hanley is looking like the '15, '17 version of himself then you sit his ass down during away games with large left fields
 

smallball

lurker
May 11, 2016
87
Kailua, HI
The Yankees are back where they belong, as public enemy No. 1.

And we cannot give a pass to Hanley as we add talent to compete. From 2015- 2017 his Boston career has him as 105 OPS+ and 1.2 WAR.

Time and past time to move on from him.
Yes, yes, yes. We need a real first baseman and a real cleanup hitter. Where Hanley fits in after that is probably somewhere on the bench.
 

PapaSox

lurker
Dec 26, 2015
230
MA
A lot seems to surround Hanley. Is it time to eat his contract and trade him. He's owed $22 million. I think if Sox eat $11 - 14 million they may find a taker. Will likely have to eat some of potential 2019 vesting. With Hanley gone that opens up putting Santana at 1B and Martinez in the DH role. As long as Hanley remains there is an expensive albatross in the room that makes any deal far more expensive.
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,747
Astoria
I would steer as far from Schwarber as possible. The Sox will need to be focused on developing Ben & Devers, they don't need a reclamation project in Schwarber. There were a couple conversations about the Yankees looking to grab Schwarber for their DH and I felt the same way. If Theo doesn't want him, that should say enough.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,710
A lot seems to surround Hanley. Is it time to eat his contract and trade him. He's owed $22 million. I think if Sox eat $11 - 14 million they may find a taker. Will likely have to eat some of potential 2019 vesting. With Hanley gone that opens up putting Santana at 1B and Martinez in the DH role. As long as Hanley remains there is an expensive albatross in the room that makes any deal far more expensive.
I really don't think Hanley will be going anywhere before the season even begins. The Sox absolutely must cross their fingers and hope he looks healthy and locked in. If he is that guy... then great. If not then they'll have to make some decisions but one of them won't be what to do about his 2019 season since he won't get the PA's to set. At that point the season will likely also be slipping away and the best thing at that point, IMO, would be to see what the Sox can get for guys like X, JBJ, Smith and Kimbrel, etc....
Whatever.... I just don't think the Sox can in any way shape or form unload Hanley even picking up half his contract
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,710
I would steer as far from Schwarber as possible. The Sox will need to be focused on developing Ben & Devers, they don't need a reclamation project in Schwarber. There were a couple conversations about the Yankees looking to grab Schwarber for their DH and I felt the same way. If Theo doesn't want him, that should say enough.
Theo does claim to want him but he doesn't make sense on their team. And Schwarber wouldn't be a "reclamation" project either...... who are you thinking of?!??!
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,747
Astoria
Theo does claim to want him but he doesn't make sense on their team. And Schwarber wouldn't be a "reclamation" project either...... who are you thinking of?!??!
I'm thinking of Schwarber. The Kyle Schwarber who has a .648 OPS against lefties, .650 OPS outside of Wrigley, had to be sent to the minors to work on his swing last year. I'd love for the Sox to buy into his second half and overpay by sending one of their young players or E-Rod.

Edit: Unless I'm overestimating his cost. Then I take it back.
 
Last edited:

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,710
I still don't know if "reclamation" project is how I'd describe him. He was a rookie sensation..... then was seriously injured. Had a terrible first half after coming back from injury then during the second half began to get back on track. I guess it's semantics... but I think of a reclamation project as a vet that has some more time under his belt and had a great stretch. Josh Hamilton was the quintessential "reclamation project".... Schwarber is still green
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,747
Astoria
I still don't know if "reclamation" project is how I'd describe him. He was a rookie sensation..... then was seriously injured. Had a terrible first half after coming back from injury then during the second half began to get back on track. I guess it's semantics... but I think of a reclamation project as a vet that has some more time under his belt and had a great stretch. Josh Hamilton was the quintessential "reclamation project".... Schwarber is still green
Fair. That was definitely the wrong word.
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,044
While the Yankees have more money than us, in the end, their GM proved to be a lot more successful at building that team than ours did.

The last three big FAs we signed have been fairl disastrous. 30 mil a year for a 3war pitcher is a bad contract, Porcello at 20 mil is a bad contract, and Pablo and Hanley have been disasters. We really need Benintendi and Devers to be stars for us to compete with that Yankees team.

Cotts has our projected salary for LT purposes 16 million over the Yankees even with Stanton (201 million vs 185 million). Add 16 million for CC and we are dead even.

They really dont have a lot more money available to spend since both teams are committed to staying under or at least near the LT. The days of the Yankees going over the LT by 50+ million a year are over. Both teams have the revenues to spend far more on salary than the LT

Its not like Cashman hasn't made some bad moves in FA too. Chapman looking questionable and Ellsbury is a dawg. His other bad contracts have all fallen off the books (Arod, Teix, CC) which led them to 4 years of mediocrity and not a single LDS. He has basically stayed out of the FA market since Ellsbury by edict from his boss (HS) saving him from himself. Unlike the Red Sox the Yankees have not been going all out to win until now. Thats where having the most revenue in baseball , even with a mediocre team helps a GM

It just seems like so many FA deals go south nowadays. More than I remember although perhaps this is just because of our experiences in recent years. Really need a lot of homegrown talent making the minimum to offset these deals. Yankees in much better shape in this regard
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,044
Why did want to go the Yankees over the Red Sox than?
That should be a major concern in the future as why a star player didn't want to come to the Red Sox over the Yankees.
For some reason Stanton felt the Yankees were a team he would waive his no-trade for,while the Red Sox he wouldn't.
That to me is concerning.
Thats an interesting question. My guess is this.

1. Better endorsement revenue potential in a larger market.

2. Modern ballpark facilities due to new stadium.

3. Bostons bad rap of being racist (he is of African American heritage)

4. Apparent hostile player-media environment

5. Park that inflates HR and does not suppress them like Fenway (remember he is playing for 3 years with the plan to opt out and hit it big with a team on the WC)

Which of those carry the most weight with him I have no idea
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Thats an interesting question. My guess is this.

1. Better endorsement revenue potential in a larger market.

2. Modern ballpark facilities due to new stadium.

3. Bostons bad rap of being racist (he is of African American heritage)

4. Apparent hostile player-media environment

5. Park that inflates HR and does not suppress them like Fenway (remember he is playing for 3 years with the plan to opt out and hit it big with a team on the WC)

Which of those carry the most weight with him I have no idea
Fenway doesn't suppress home runs. One year of park factors isn't predictive and this year's factor probably has a lot to do with Chris Sale changing the color of his Sox and Craig Kimbrel deciding he was going to strike out half of the batters he saw.
 

Hawk68

lurker
Feb 29, 2008
172
Massachusetts
I really don't think Hanley will be going anywhere before the season even begins. The Sox absolutely must cross their fingers and hope he looks healthy and locked in. If he is that guy... then great. If not then they'll have to make some decisions but one of them won't be what to do about his 2019 season since he won't get the PA's to set. At that point the season will likely also be slipping away and the best thing at that point, IMO, would be to see what the Sox can get for guys like X, JBJ, Smith and Kimbrel, etc....
Whatever.... I just don't think the Sox can in any way shape or form unload Hanley even picking up half his contract
With all due respect, those two bolded statements are incompatible with building a winning team in the Chris Sale window and in light of the lineup the Yankees are building.

HR is not part of the solution. He is part of the problem - poor on-field value for the sunk cost.
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,044
How about Starlin Castro? Move Pedey to 1B to save wear and tear on his knees. Castro provides as much power at 2B as many 1Bmen, especially at Fenway. Might even move over to SS if XB gets hurt or can't hit. Or DH . Jeter supposedly looking to dump his salary so not sure what he is looking for. Might want to counter allegations with Miami fans that he is an embedded Yankee.
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,044
Fenway doesn't suppress home runs. One year of park factors isn't predictive and this year's factor probably has a lot to do with Chris Sale changing the color of his Sox and Craig Kimbrel deciding he was going to strike out half of the batters he saw.
It certainly does suppress HR and not just in 2017. More so for LHber than RHBer but even RHBers. Lot of HR turned into doubles singles for RHBers

https://baseballmonster.com/MLBParkFactors.aspx
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
5,467
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
How about Starlin Castro? Move Pedey to 1B to save wear and tear on his knees. Castro provides as much power at 2B as many 1Bmen, especially at Fenway. Might even move over to SS if XB gets hurt or can't hit. Or DH . Jeter supposedly looking to dump his salary so not sure what he is looking for. Might want to counter allegations with Miami fans that he is an embedded Yankee.
I'm sorry .. but moving Pedroia to 1st would be .. well .. beyond stupid. He's what? 5ft 9 ?
 

grimshaw

the new rudy
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
3,490
Portland
How about Starlin Castro? Move Pedey to 1B to save wear and tear on his knees. Castro provides as much power at 2B as many 1Bmen, especially at Fenway. Might even move over to SS if XB gets hurt or can't hit. Or DH . Jeter supposedly looking to dump his salary so not sure what he is looking for. Might want to counter allegations with Miami fans that he is an embedded Yankee.
Pass.
His home/road split was wRC+ 132 to 84 and 123 to 63 the year before in New York.
He's still just a league average hitter who made the absolute most of his home park - not the case when he was a Cub. Why pay for it when they already have it?

Definitely not a good enough bat to DH either.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
I'm sorry .. but moving Pedroia to 1st would be .. well .. beyond stupid. He's what? 5ft 9 ?
Pedey is more likely to be the starting DH full time than a 1B. Schwarber would be the ideal target. Provided he doesn’t cost any young player this team has in the majors. Could be a 40 homer guy as a full time DH/1B
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2006
6,424
I'm thinking of Schwarber. The Kyle Schwarber who has a .648 OPS against lefties, .650 OPS outside of Wrigley, had to be sent to the minors to work on his swing last year. I'd love for the Sox to buy into his second half and overpay by sending one of their young players or E-Rod.

Edit: Unless I'm overestimating his cost. Then I take it back.
If the price is E-Rod you drive E-Rod to West Addison. I’d personally rather it be someone like Chavis and a lotto ticket in the system. We’ll see. Certainly a better long term option than JD.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
1,940
I would happily trade Theo four years of Matt Barnes for four years of Kyle Schwarber.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,781
The wrong side of the bridge....
It certainly does suppress HR and not just in 2017. More so for LHber than RHBer but even RHBers. Lot of HR turned into doubles singles for RHBers

https://baseballmonster.com/MLBParkFactors.aspx
And using ESPN's park factors, Fenway has an average factor of 0.91 and has been under 1.00 (i.e. below average) in eight of the past ten years. It's a tremendous doubles park and a great BABIP park, but not a good home run park.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
45,758
deep inside Guido territory
Richard Justice suggested dangling David Price to the Cubs for Kyle Schwarber. I mean, that is probably not going to happen but should it? From a financial perspective, if the Cubs want a top of the rotation starter they'll get a short commitment before his opt out. He knows Maddon and Hickey obviously very well.

The Red Sox would free up a lot of salary to give to JD Martinez without adding much to the current payroll number.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
The Red Sox would free up a lot of salary to give to JD Martinez without adding much to the current payroll number.
This would probably end up being about salary neutral. Of course, at that point the rotation is Sale, Pomeranz, Porcello and then...? I realize this was written before the Wright news, but even with him included, they're looking at Brian Johnson in the rotation on opening day.

So they'd open a hole that they need to fill before spring training. I suppose they could sign Yu Darvish, though. :)
 

grimshaw

the new rudy
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
3,490
Portland
i could only see Price moving if they signed Darvish- two things on no one's radar, but that's an interesting thought.

It's really hard to assess Price' trade value right now but I would hope they could do better than Schwarber.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
45,758
deep inside Guido territory
This would probably end up being about salary neutral. Of course, at that point the rotation is Sale, Pomeranz, Porcello and then...? I realize this was written before the Wright news, but even with him included, they're looking at Brian Johnson in the rotation on opening day.

So they'd open a hole that they need to fill before spring training. I suppose they could sign Yu Darvish, though. :)
Neutral in terms of what the number is now. They wouldn't be adding much to the current number with a swap of Price for Martinez.
 

PaSox

lurker
Jul 14, 2005
109
Usually my couch
Since this is the Let's get crazy (risky acquisition) thread....I'm going to go with a big bat in the middle of the lineup and a starter who can win a game in the postseason.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
The discussions off Schwarber’s trade value in this thread certainly qualify as crazy.
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,781
The wrong side of the bridge....
The discussions off Schwarber’s trade value in this thread certainly qualify as crazy.
Since said discussions have ranged from Barnes to Price, I'm curious which direction you think they're crazy in. Or is it the wide range itself that strikes you that way?

Pedey is more likely to be the starting DH full time than a 1B.
By the time he can't play 2B anymore, he'll probably be just as unlikely a candidate to DH as to play 1B. He's truly a one-position guy.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
41,547
Since this is the Let's get crazy (risky acquisition) thread....I'm going to go with a big bat in the middle of the lineup and a starter who can win a game in the postseason.
Cool. Can you tell us who they are?
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
Since said discussions have ranged from Barnes to Price, I'm curious which direction you think they're crazy in. Or is it the wide range itself that strikes you that way?
.
Are people of the opinion that David Price has any trade value at all? I still expect that by the end of spring training it’s as likely that he’ll be starting his rehab from Tommy John surgery as it is he’ll be starting game 2 of the 2018 AL Wild Card Race
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
12,389
Why did want to go the Yankees over the Red Sox than?
That should be a major concern in the future as why a star player didn't want to come to the Red Sox over the Yankees.
For some reason Stanton felt the Yankees were a team he would waive his no-trade for,while the Red Sox he wouldn't.
That to me is concerning.
I'm guessing if he came to Boston, he would constantly be compared to David Ortiz and he'd rather not be.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
12,389
The thing with farm systems is they can literally change over night and prospects often do come from nowhere. Add 2 impact prospects to this farm and it's ranked somewhere between 10-15.

My binky in the Sox farm system the last 2 years is Pedro Castellanos. He'll never be highly rated due to being a 1b/DH type and he's not particularly young, but the dude can flat out rake.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,710
The thing with farm systems is they can literally change over night and prospects often do come from nowhere. Add 2 impact prospects to this farm and it's ranked somewhere between 10-15.

My binky in the Sox farm system the last 2 years is Pedro Castellanos. He'll never be highly rated due to being a 1b/DH type and he's not particularly young, but the dude can flat out rake.
Is 5 HR's in 431 AB's "raking"? I guess in recent post-Ortiz Sox lore it could be....
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
12,389
Is 5 HR's in 431 AB's "raking"? I guess in recent post-Ortiz Sox lore it could be....
Power isn't everything and no one hits for power in the DSL. Chances are the guy flames out before reaching AA but to date, he's shown elite contact skills and the 8.7% K rate coupled with the 6.2% BB rate is interesting. He's always putting the ball in play, kind of like Randall Simon. He has an advanced approach and those guys always do well at the lower levels.
 

FredCDobbs

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 5, 2004
547
Austin
The contracts Hosmer and Martinez are going to end up with are going to be gargantuan overpays that we'll almost immediately wish we could get out of. Overpaying for these 2nd tier guys that you talk yourselves into never works (Gary Matthews Jr. says Hi).

Because I know we're going to sign one free agent for at least $80 mil, I guess I can live with Carlos Santana for 3-4 years and explore trades. Hosmer and Martinez want 6 years at least.

Lifetime WAR
Santana 24.5
Hosmer 14.1
Martinez 13.7

If we're going to spend the big money, just save it for Machado or Harper who are true stars. Bah humbug
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
1,940
how about JBJ Leon and Swihartfor Javier Baez and Strop.
JBJ is worth much more than Baez, and the Cubs are looking to acquire pitching after losing Wade Davis, Uehara, Rondon and Justin Wilson in their bullpen.

They signed Brandon Morrow, but I could see Theo being interested in Matt Barnes, whom he drafted.
 

jasvlm

lurker
Nov 28, 2014
177
I know they've been looking for bats, but if JD Martinez proves too difficult to sign, would DD consider adding Votto? Votto is 34 (35 in September 2018), and has 6/157 left on his contract. He also has a full no trade, which might scotch things before they begin. However, he would seem to represent the perfect type of hitter to add to a lineup heavy on RH hitters, and his ability to play 1b allows Hanley to stay at DH. Given the contract, the Reds may be willing to take B level prospects just to have Votto off the books, or perhaps someone like ERod if it came to that.
I realize this is a long shot, which is why I'm posting it here. If the acquisition cost isn't prohibitive, I believe I'd prefer Votto at 6/157 from ages 34-40 than JDM at 6/180 from 30-36. I realize the age difference isn't negligible, but Votto is an elite level batter who hasn't shown significant skill slippage-his 2017 season saw a career low 11.7k rate while his bb rate stayed at 19.
Just trying to figure out a plan B so the Red Sox aren't tied to Boras' timetable with Martinez (or heaven forbid, HOsmer.)