Les Athlétisme de Montréal or The Vegas Aces?

RSN Diaspora

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At ESPN.com, Jeff Passan is reporting that Oakland is considering a move out of the city if they cannot come to terms on a new ballpark.

Teams threatening to leave for stadium offers elsewhere is nothing new--it's a time-honored leverage tactic used to get municipalities to pony up large sums to build stadiums that almost never pay off for the taxpayers in the long run. And as a small market overshadowed by a large market whose basketball and football teams have left the city recently, Oakland is probably more susceptible to this than most, so take it with a grain of salt. But it struck me as telling that the A's confirmed not only are they looking elsewhere, but are doing so at MLB's direction:

"The future success of the A's depends on a new ballpark," A's owner John Fisher said in a statement. "Oakland is a great baseball town, and we will continue to pursue our waterfront ballpark project. We will also follow MLB's direction to explore other markets."
I'm skeptical that this is anything more than a leverage move, but if there's real meat to this, the leading contenders would have to be Montreal and Vegas, no?
 

Kliq

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Fisher has skated by, but is really a tremendously bad owner. A trust-fund kid who never had any success outside of using his family's wealth and has never spent a dime on the team or the stadium. Tough luck for loyal A's fans.
 

soxhop411

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Fisher has skated by, but is really a tremendously bad owner. A trust-fund kid who never had any success outside of using his family's wealth and has never spent a dime on the team or the stadium. Tough luck for loyal A's fans.
Can the raiders new stadium be multi purpose?
 

Zososoxfan

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I hope this helps the Tampa MSA's leverage vis-à-vis the Rays. For those not paying attention, Stuart Sternberg is the owner of the Rays and he's been outlandishly difficult as he tries to get public financing for a new stadium. The City of Tampa put together an inch-perfect downtown ballpark parcel for the club, and the Rays came back with a $1.2B stadium proposal with over half the money coming from public financing. The City/County offer quickly fell apart and now the Rays are trying to pitch splitting the home game slate between Tampa and Montreal (one of the dumbest proposals I've ever seen).

Feel bad for the Oakland fans, but the truth of the matter is while I love pro sports and want to keep as many franchises in my area as possible, I care less about that and more about these insanely wealthy individuals trying to tax the local populations. Good riddance to the owners, sad that it takes moving a ballclub to get them to go.
 

soxhop411

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I hope this helps the Tampa MSA's leverage vis-à-vis the Rays. For those not paying attention, Stuart Sternberg is the owner of the Rays and he's been outlandishly difficult as he tries to get public financing for a new stadium. The City of Tampa put together an inch-perfect downtown ballpark parcel for the club, and the Rays came back with a $1.2B stadium proposal with over half the money coming from public financing. The City/County offer quickly fell apart and now the Rays are trying to pitch splitting the home game slate between Tampa and Montreal (one of the dumbest proposals I've ever seen).

Feel bad for the Oakland fans, but the truth of the matter is while I love pro sports and want to keep as many franchises in my area as possible, I care less about that and more about these insanely wealthy individuals trying to tax the local populations. Good riddance to the owners, sad that it takes moving a ballclub to get them to go.
if anything I would think MLB would prefer re-location over expansion, so if the Rays and A's "move" to new cities, they wouldn’t need to do an expansion/expansion draft
 
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cannonball 1729

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were they still asking for public funding?
Some. The ballpark is privately financed, as is much of the redevelopment of the area. I believe they're asking for $855 million in infrastructure improvements to complement a $1 billion privately financed park and $12 billion total in private investment. They're hoping to completely rework the Howard Terminal port area.

The biggest problem seems to be that the Howard Terminal port area is, well, a port, and an active one. It's one of the largest ports in the country, and there's some concern that port traffic will get horribly snarled up if it's taken over by a baseball stadium. Also, there are obviously quite a few port-related businesses and workers that are a bit worried about getting kicked out for a baseball team.

There are also some environmental concerns about digging up some pretty hazardous chemicals that are in the soil and groundwater in the area.

The mayor sounds vaguely in favor of the whole thing but seems to be in no rush due to concerns from people tied to the port. The A's have been pushing to get a vote on it by July so that they can start construction soon and open the new park by 2024. This announcement of alternate sites sounds like an attempt to get the city council to actually vote on the proposal.

now the Rays are trying to pitch splitting the home game slate between Tampa and Montreal (one of the dumbest proposals I've ever seen).
Because if there's one thing Montreal fans love, it's a team with split home. Just ask the Montreal/San Juan Expos!
 

Ale Xander

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What are the chances Portland, Ore., could land them?
I'm thinking first choice Vegas, 2nd choice somewhere in NC probably Charlotte. (take a little bit from south of Nats, northeast of Braves, southeast of Cincy, east of St. Louis fans in Memphis)

Montreal already had a shot and failed.
 

RSN Diaspora

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I'm thinking first choice Vegas, 2nd choice somewhere in NC probably Charlotte. (take a little bit from south of Nats, northeast of Braves, southeast of Cincy, east of St. Louis fans in Memphis)

Montreal already had a shot and failed.
Montreal's problems were legion, not the least of which was a domed stadium with roof issues--not somewhere most Quebecois would want to find themselves during the few months where it's warm enough to be outside at night. It's a market of 4.1 million people (Vegas is 2.2m and Charlotte is 2.6m). Hardly a slam dunk based on recent-ish history (and Vegas, Charlotte, and others can make compelling cases too), but I also don't think it should be dismissed either. A downtown stadium with a retractable roof, ideally no work stoppages in what was shaping up to be a World Series-contending season, and an owner willing to field a competitive team could go a long way.
 

RSN Diaspora

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I can't think of any good multi purpose stadiums for football/baseball. I'm sure I must be missing one or two, do you have a good example in mind?
With the Raiders' departure for Vegas, multi-use baseball/football stadiums don't exist at the top level anymore, and it's generally regarded as an experiment that failed.
 

chrisfont9

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I'm thinking first choice Vegas, 2nd choice somewhere in NC probably Charlotte. (take a little bit from south of Nats, northeast of Braves, southeast of Cincy, east of St. Louis fans in Memphis)

Montreal already had a shot and failed.
Portland Metro is 26th (2.4m), CSA is 19th (3.2m). It makes some logical sense, and as far as future growth goes it's probably a fine place for a team. But the Mariners would scream bloody murder.
 

YTF

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Setting Vegas aside for a moment, I wonder how good of a fit Nashville might make for the A's. The A's should benefit from the fact that Nashville is a destination city as well as the fact that they might have some sort established fan base (small as it might be) given the fact that Nashville was recently served as their AAA affiliate from 2015-2018. Also wondering if they might be far enough from any other regional team where they might be able to expand a fan base easier than they might elsewhere.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Montreal already had a shot and failed.
Montreal didn’t fail, Montreal was sabotaged tag team by a hostile commissioner (Selig) and arguably the worst owner (Loria) in recent pro sport history…both of whom had specific interest in seeing MLB not succeed in Montreal.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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IIRC the giants/mlb have blocked every Attempt by the A’s to move there, as far back as when selig was commissioner
Guy I used to work with bought the San Jose Bees California League team back in the 80s -- his group one dollar for the then-independent franchise and its functional-but-in-need-of-repair stadium, with a promise to invest in the infrastructure. They also got a Giants affiliation in the deal, which obviously was huge given the geography.

Some years later, the Giants explored moving to San Jose... but he actually held the rights to the territory. He finally sold the Giants to the Giants in 2009 -- his dollar had appreciated significantly.
 
Jul 15, 2005
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Some. The ballpark is privately financed, as is much of the redevelopment of the area. I believe they're asking for $855 million in infrastructure improvements to complement a $1 billion privately financed park and $12 billion total in private investment. They're hoping to completely rework the Howard Terminal port area.

The biggest problem seems to be that the Howard Terminal port area is, well, a port, and an active one. It's one of the largest ports in the country, and there's some concern that port traffic will get horribly snarled up if it's taken over by a baseball stadium. Also, there are obviously quite a few port-related businesses and workers that are a bit worried about getting kicked out for a baseball team.

There are also some environmental concerns about digging up some pretty hazardous chemicals that are in the soil and groundwater in the area.

The mayor sounds vaguely in favor of the whole thing but seems to be in no rush due to concerns from people tied to the port. The A's have been pushing to get a vote on it by July so that they can start construction soon and open the new park by 2024. This announcement of alternate sites sounds like an attempt to get the city council to actually vote on the proposal.


Because if there's one thing Montreal fans love, it's a team with split home. Just ask the Montreal/San Juan Expos!
not familiar with Oakland at all, but is there not non-environmental risky areas where the team could regenerate with a new ballpark? an active port area doesn't sound like the right candidate unless its in disrepair

on the other hand, 2021 is probably the best time for new municipal bond issuances to fund something like this
 

j-man

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MLB needs 32 teams
1 Nashville - NL
2 charotte- rays
3 vegas - oak
4 san antonio


i wouild do the div like this
N L
Div A
NYM WASH PHILLY MIA
DIV B
STL CHI MILIW MINN

DIV C
NASH ATL PITT CINY
DIV D
LAD SF SD ZONA

AL
DIV A
NYY BOS DET TOR
DIV B
CHAR BALT CWS CLE
DIV C
SA HOU TEX KC
DIV D
LAA SEA COL VEGAS
 

cannonball 1729

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not familiar with Oakland at all, but is there not non-environmental risky areas where the team could regenerate with a new ballpark? an active port area doesn't sound like the right candidate unless its in disrepair
The difficulty is that Oakland isn't exactly teeming with open space, and the A's are pretty well fenced-in by the Giants' territory rights. It's hard to come up with a big area in Oakland that can house a stadium but is affordable and either has nice development around it or could be developed nicely. Five years ago, the A's had narrowed their search down to basically the only three options in the area: a new stadium near the Coliseum, a stadium at Laney College/Peralta Community College, or the Howard Terminal port area. The Coliseum is in a crappy area with not a lot of development potential, and Laney College students/faculty/administration basically revolted and caused the Peralta trustees to get cold feet on the whole thing. So Howard it is. It's the best of a bunch of not-very-good options. The A's are basically getting NIMBY'd out of Oakland, and their threat to leave is an attempt to force the issue that if they're going to stay, they're going to have to be in *someone's* backyard.
 

scottyno

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Are there any minor league teams that play in the same city as their parent team? The Las Vegas aviators just built a $150m stadium and had by far the biggest attendance of any minor league team in 2019, can't think they'd be thrilled about the parent team coming to town
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Are there any minor league teams that play in the same city as their parent team? The Las Vegas aviators just built a $150m stadium and had by far the biggest attendance of any minor league team in 2019, can't think they'd be thrilled about the parent team coming to town
The Blue Jays have been sharing a stadium with their A affiliate, and soon will be sharing with their AAA affiliate. Obviously a temporary thing though.

The Twins' AAA affiliate is in St Paul. That's probably as close as you're going to get to being in the same city.
 

Saints Rest

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The Blue Jays have been sharing a stadium with their A affiliate, and soon will be sharing with their AAA affiliate. Obviously a temporary thing though.

The Twins' AAA affiliate is in St Paul. That's probably as close as you're going to get to being in the same city.
SI had a Yankees and Brooklyn had a Mets affiliate.
 

Ale Xander

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***obvious alert***

Red Sox AAA team in Worcester is 45 miles from Fenway. Same CSA (but different MSA). Pawtucket was 6 miles farther.

Single A team in Lowell was 33ish miles away. (Same MSA)
 

Hoya81

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Are there any minor league teams that play in the same city as their parent team? The Las Vegas aviators just built a $150m stadium and had by far the biggest attendance of any minor league team in 2019, can't think they'd be thrilled about the parent team coming to town
The Aviators stadium being brand new could potentially be a big complication. You'd have to make whole the Hughes corporation (they own the team and the stadium) and the LV Convention Center authority who helped fund the construction. You could donate the stadium to UNLV, but I'm sure they'd balk at the upkeep on a much bigger stadium than their current facility.
 

Humphrey

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if anything I would think MLB would prefer re-location over expansion, so if the Rays and A's "move" to new cities, they would need to do an expansion/expansion draft
I do think 32 teams is a better number than 30 if you're going to have an equal number of teams in each league. Having 1 interleague series ongoing at all times including down the stretch is horrible.

Of course, the pandemic has pretty much ended this discussion for a while. There is no major league ready stadium empty and waiting. And building one where it's assumed the government will pay for it (which is true in a lot of places not named Boston, for better or worse) is a problem right now.

I do hope the A's move or get a new park. Red Sox games there tend to be terrible, especially the getaway day games. The place is worthy of its derisive nickname "Mausoleum".
 
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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Austin is going to push for the A’s (or Rays). They have a plan in place.
If they located the stadium somewhere between San Antonio and Austin it'd make sense but Austin is shooting too high if it thinks it can land and sustain a MLB team without somehow sharing it with SA.
 

scottyno

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The Aviators stadium being brand new could potentially be a big complication. You'd have to make whole the Hughes corporation (they own the team and the stadium) and the LV Convention Center authority who helped fund the construction. You could donate the stadium to UNLV, but I'm sure they'd balk at the upkeep on a much bigger stadium than their current facility.
Yeah, it's a really nice stadium too, but obviously not suitable for a major league team (plus any major league team in vegas is going to want a dome). They've had some other events there, but not enough where it makes any sense at all to keep if the aviators aren't playing there.

And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how Vegas could have both a major and minor league team and draw enough fans to both to have it make any sense at all.
 

RSN Diaspora

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And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how Vegas could have both a major and minor league team and draw enough fans to both to have it make any sense at all.
You're not wrong--the only cities with the population to pull that off would be NYC, LA, Chicago, and Toronto--and NYC is likely the only one with enough baseball interest to have any hope for success. Major League Baseball in Vegas would force the Aviators to move.
 

steeplechase3k

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Portland has a group that is trying to get a stadium deal together, but they have not gotten anything concrete done. The one slightly serious plan does not have good transit access (at the moment), and has a lot of the issues the the Oakland site does. It's pretty much in the middle of an active port (obviously not nearly as active), and it's probably full of all kinds of horrible chemicals in the soil.

Portland also doesn't have a temporary stadium. The only dedicated baseball stadium near the city is the 3.5k seat Ron Tonkin Field for the Hillsboro Hops who are moving up to High-A this year after several years at Class A Short Season. It's a cute little stadium, but it's, well, a little stadium.

Portland is a much better fit for expansion where a new stadium can be built for the team and have lead time to get it ready.

And, as has been mentioned, the Mariners will get PAID for the loss of their territory.

As a Red Sox fan I would prefer an NL team here, it makes rooting for them easier. It would mean the Red Sox are here less, but I'll take that. A NL team also probably impacts the Mariners a little less.
 

Humphrey

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I'm surprised that the Austin area is that large, if you combine its SMSA with San Antonio's, you have nearly 5 million people.

It would have to be a NL team; there's no way they'd have another AL franchise in proximity to Houston and Dallas.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Portland has a group that is trying to get a stadium deal together, but they have not gotten anything concrete done. The one slightly serious plan does not have good transit access (at the moment), and has a lot of the issues the the Oakland site does. It's pretty much in the middle of an active port (obviously not nearly as active), and it's probably full of all kinds of horrible chemicals in the soil.

Portland also doesn't have a temporary stadium. The only dedicated baseball stadium near the city is the 3.5k seat Ron Tonkin Field for the Hillsboro Hops who are moving up to High-A this year after several years at Class A Short Season. It's a cute little stadium, but it's, well, a little stadium.

Portland is a much better fit for expansion where a new stadium can be built for the team and have lead time to get it ready.

And, as has been mentioned, the Mariners will get PAID for the loss of their territory.

As a Red Sox fan I would prefer an NL team here, it makes rooting for them easier. It would mean the Red Sox are here less, but I'll take that. A NL team also probably impacts the Mariners a little less.
Didn't Portland decide it would rather have an MLS team than a baseball team?
 

steeplechase3k

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Believe their stadium was used for baseball but don't think the remodeling would allow for it now.
The AAA Beavers and USL Timbers shared a stadium until 2010. It has been renovated (twice) into a soccer only stadium. Merritt Paulson, the Timbers owner (and Beavers at the time) tried to build a new stadium for the Beavers. It would have been expandable to MLB size if needed. The sites would have been on public land but he was willing to build the stadium. None of it ended up working.