LeBron to LA

bakahump

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Wait, Lebron didnt know his dad? I did not know this. TBH I am not a Lebron fan (or even interested in him) beyond hoping the Celts beat his teams. I also didnt follow the NBA as closely from 2010-16 as I did from 86-2010. So Its likely this is well known and I missed it.
Someone mentioned the "perhaps best set of sports genes ever bestowed...". To that point WHO WAS HIS DAD? Was Wilt in Cleveland doing a promotional tour for Conan the Destroyer? Chris Carter leave campus one night? Julio Franco have a bad night at Short and need some company? <-- my leading contender). Joe Carter bored with being on the bench chatted up Ms. James? Did Arkansas and Mike Conley Sr have a Spring meet at OSU in 84? Did Magic and the Lakers have a late season game with Cleveland in 84?(HMMM...)

I want to study this mystery mans other progeny. Are they on half a dozen pro or college teams? Or are they all 5'8 240 lb schlubs? Was it all the mom!?
 

queenb

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ait, Lebron didnt know his dad? I did not know this. TBH I am not a Lebron fan (or even interested in him) beyond hoping the Celts beat his teams. I also didnt follow the NBA as closely from 2010-16 as I did from 86-2010. So Its likely this is well known and I missed it.
Someone mentioned the "perhaps best set of sports genes ever bestowed...". To that point WHO WAS HIS DAD? Was Wilt in Cleveland doing a promotional tour for Conan the Destroyer? Chris Carter leave campus one night? Julio Franco have a bad night at Short and need some company? <-- my leading contender). Joe Carter bored with being on the bench chatted up Ms. James? Did Arkansas and Mike Conley Sr have a Spring meet at OSU in 84? Did Magic and the Lakers have a late season game with Cleveland in 84?(HMMM...)

I want to study this mystery mans other progeny. Are they on half a dozen pro or college teams? Or are they all 5'8 240 lb schlubs? Was it all the mom!?
Gloria James said back in 2002 that LeBron's biological father was a man named Anthony McClelland. Nobody has much to say about him except that he's a convicted felon.

Another theory is Roland Bivins. He went to high school with LeBron's mom and looked just like him. This video explains it a bit and includes these pictures:



 

Kliq

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I've never heard of the Roland Bivins theory until today and it's blowing my mind.

I mean, at first I think it's kind of weird on in-depth people are going on figuring out the truth of what is a very private and personal matter; but given he probably has the best genetics of any athlete we have ever seen, it is fascinating to wonder who his father was. It seems odd though that LeBron and his mother wouldn't admit it was Bivins if that was the truth though, it isn't like him being the father would be more shameful than McCleland, but of course, we don't know the whole story.
 
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Soxfan in Fla

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Holy cow that looks like Lebron was retrofitted into the 1970’s in that pic. That guy looks just like Lebron.
 

Ale Xander

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Hockey isn't really popular among African Americans at all. They make up 3% of the NHL fan base. The only major sport that draws in less is NASCAR.
It was rhetorical, but thank you for the info. That's about 6x of what I would have guessed it was.
 

Jimbodandy

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I realize that hard work won't make me 6'8", but the thousands of hours Lebron has spent lifting, running, and training basketball has a lot more to do with his dominance than who his dad is. He's not a racehorse.
 

queenb

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I've never heard of the Roland Bivins theory until today and it's blowing my mind.

I mean, at first I think it's kind of weird on in-depth people are going on figuring out the truth of what is a very private and personal matter; but given he probably has the best genetics of any athlete we have ever seen, it is fascinating to wonder who his father was. It seems odd though that LeBron and his mother wouldn't admit it was Bivins if that was the truth though, it isn't like him being the father would be more shameful than McCleland, but of course, we don't know the whole story.
It's possible she doesn't even know for sure. All we have to go on is LeBron saying this:

"Like, 'Wow, Dad, you know what, I don't know you, I have no idea who you are, but because of you is part of the reason who I am today.' The fuel that I use—you not being there—it's part of the reason I grew up to become who I am. It's part of the reason why I want to be hands-on with my endeavors. And be able to put my guys that's with me now in position. Like Maverick Carter, my right-hand guy in my business. Rich Paul, my agent. Randy Mims, my friend—he's my manager, you know. So me in a position allowing people around me to grow, that maybe wouldn't have happened if I had two parents, two sisters, a dog, and a picket fence, you know?"

"Because of you Pops! Thanks all along. Could have said 'Why me?' with [you] not being there but look what I made of myself."
My guess is he either doesn't know his father's identity, or has a hunch but doesn't want to give whoever the person is any recognition, and also doesn't really want to know because, as he says, the abandonment is his fuel. It would be hard to stay mad at Bivins who got gunned down in his 20s, so why let himself believe that's who it is when he doesn't know for sure? Far better to run with the idea that maybe his father is still out there, not being there, and feeling dumber by the day that he didn't stick around. I'd probably do that.
 

Kliq

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I realize that hard work won't make me 6'8", but the thousands of hours Lebron has spent lifting, running, and training basketball has a lot more to do with his dominance than who his dad is. He's not a racehorse.
No doubt, but if we were looking to create the world's greatest athlete and could pick two athletes to procreate, it would be LeBron and Serena Williams. For stupid bar arguments it's interesting to examine LeBron's genetics.
 

LondonSox

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What's amazing is the number of media types that are buying into what the Lakers are selling. I read not one, but two articles today that compared the Lakers roster construction to the Rockets because they are building around big, switchy wings and guards. That's laughable considering that Stephenson, Lonzo and KCP are the only guys on the roster you'd describe as better than average defenders and you are never going to be able to play more than one of that group at a time without completely cratering the offense. But more importantly the Rockets built around two MVP-level players, not one plus a budding star at center.

Also, finding shooters is probably the most difficult and expensive thing to find in free agency or trades. Every team outside of the Rockets and Warriors last year was looking for more shooting. How many first round picks did the Cavs squander the last four years trying to find shooters to put around Lebron?
I see this a lot so I want to point it out as no one else seems to have.
Lance Stephenson is a bad defensive player. By numerous metrics one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. His rep from playoffs and playing vs LeBron is a total outlier.
He can't shoot and he can't defend, he's not a great passer but other than that.
Jacob Goldstein has it as a 0% chance of being worth his contract. And it's not huge. He bad.
Lonzo and KCP and lonzo was better in the NBA than anything he's ever shown before, it looked real but I want a bigger sample.
The team is full of bad defensive players and so so shooting.

Forget basketball, Forget championships, Forget all that stuff. THIS right here is why LeBron is one of my all-time favorite people in the game of basketball.

https://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/2018/07/30/lebron-james-family-foundation-opens-school-akron/861866002/
Absolutely
 

HomeRunBaker

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I realize that hard work won't make me 6'8", but the thousands of hours Lebron has spent lifting, running, and training basketball has a lot more to do with his dominance than who his dad is. He's not a racehorse.
I would say that genetics work pretty much the same with humans and racehorses. He was a 1st Team HS All-American as a Sophomore before he even knew what conditioning was.
 

Marciano490

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No doubt, but if we were looking to create the world's greatest athlete and could pick two athletes to procreate, it would be LeBron and Serena Williams. For stupid bar arguments it's interesting to examine LeBron's genetics.
This conversation is a little icky to me, but why is LeBron a better athlete than Deion or Bo? Or are people hung up on the height?
 

snowmanny

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This conversation is a little icky to me, but why is LeBron a better athlete than Deion or Bo? Or are people hung up on the height?
It's hard to judge isn't it. I mean one of these guys from this piece of ESPN's list of the greatest athletes of the 20th century is clearly much faster stronger and bigger than the others:

 

Eagle3

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This conversation is a little icky to me, but why is LeBron a better athlete than Deion or Bo? Or are people hung up on the height?
Until Lebron becomes an All-Star in a second professional sport, I'm taking Bo all day long. Not sure about Serena. Clearly she's the best female tennis player of all time, but not sure about all-around athlete. Not horrible form, but she doesn't look like a natural here.
 

BuellMiller

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Until Lebron becomes an All-Star in a second professional sport, I'm taking Bo all day long. Not sure about Serena. Clearly she's the best female tennis player of all time, but not sure about all-around athlete. Not horrible form, but she doesn't look like a natural here.
No worse than Sabathia throwing to first tonight.
 

Marciano490

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It's hard to judge isn't it. I mean one of these guys from this piece of ESPN's list of the greatest athletes of the 20th century is clearly much faster stronger and bigger than the others:
We can talk all day about what constitutes athleticism. I think there’s a lot of fetishization of strength and speed whereas reflex and coordination are undersold.

Speaking of which, what’re LeBron’s measurables? He never struck me as particularly fast or agile. Shit, I’d think Gronk is likely the better athlete, all in.
 

InstaFace

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Until Lebron becomes an All-Star in a second professional sport, I'm taking Bo all day long. Not sure about Serena. Clearly she's the best female tennis player of all time, but not sure about all-around athlete. Not horrible form, but she doesn't look like a natural here.
It's an interesting question. And as the resident Serena superfan here, I'm going to ruminate on it, because I'm hydrating after a long night out.

If Serena saw a path where, 10 years down the line, after obsessive-compulsive practice and film study, she could go out and straight crush fools in another sport, she might take it up. She pretty much feeds off the pain of the vanquished, like a tennis dementor. Hates practice, hates conditioning, but puts up with it solely because of how good it feels curtsying to a cheering crowd after she's sent another tall eastern european blonde to the showers. She is not the most physically gifted female athlete I've ever seen, though she's not too far off, but it's her mentality (and problem-solving ability on the court) that has made her what she is.

The problem is that no other sport for women has the kind of talent depth that tennis does, so it's a natural choice for where to find the best female athletes. The talent depth in female tennis today is frequently compared to itself in other eras, and also to the depth in men's tennis. That the comparison is made at all speaks volumes; it's the only sport in which such comparisons are even made in non-mocking terms. So then you compare to the LPGA, and yeah, Serena could teach herself how to hit, but she's never going to really end up standing over the metaphorical corpse of someone she has crushed, so I'm not sure it'd excite her that much. But even if she were motivated, there will be other golfers who can make shots she'll never gain the reps to make. Likewise, she's not going to have the eye-foot coordination of a Carli Lloyd, nor the straight distance endurance of most olympic runners, nor the flexibility and body control of a gymnast. Her footwork on the court, when at her best, is world class, but that's rote practice and muscle memory rather than extraordinary genetics.

She's not without pure athletic assets - she's willing to suffer on the court, beyond the breaking point of many professionals, in order to turn a match around and outlast someone. That's Rafael Nadal's calling card, for example, and it's won him titles and admiration. Her eye-hand coordination on volleys and at net is great, though not especially so among the top 100 tennis players. Balance and body control to hit with her trademark power, that's athleticism. Her GOAT-level serving ability... well, you have to read your opponent, know what their weakness is at any given time, and then execute to one of 3 locations (T, wide, body) with one of several spins or deliveries, a high percentage of the time. It's probably comparable to pitching, and she's definitely the Pedro of tennis serving. But that requires only a certain amount of athletic talent, probably not all that far off the bell curve - and then an absurd amount of mental focus.

So what's made her what she is is probably 60% mental abilities manifested in ways from game tactics to shot consistency, 30% willingness to out-practice and out-suffer people on the court, and 10% god-given talent to hit super powerful groundstrokes and top-of-tour serve speeds. Is she as much of a natural even at her chosen sport as, say, Steffi Graf was? Probably not. Was she born to dominate a sport of her choosing the way, I dunno, an olympic Heptathlete like Jessica Ennis was? Or a basketball natural like Elena Delle Donne? Or Katie Ledecky? Probably not. Yeah, I think there's a meaningful difference there: Serena Williams, for all her gifts, probably could never become (and could never have become) a world-class athlete in swimming, track and field, gymnastics, stuff that worships youth, insists on a body type, and relies on genetic physical gifts more than anything. I could see her practicing the shit out of something as a second career, and ending up dominating a shallower pool, like in (say) shooting or rowing or, hell, even wrestling. Something where her mental focus delivers a premium. It'd be awesome, too. But I think that's categorically different.

Yeah, I dunno if I'd pair her with Lebron to make super-children. She's the best in the world at the sport with the deepest female talent pool in the world, but she's all that through a combination of things that just aren't hereditary, not in the same way that an explosive first step and an absurd physique are hereditary.
 
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Edit: This is not a rejoinder to @InstaFace 's analysis of Serena--he posted while I was googling.
 

Marciano490

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You guys always do this. Sports are made up games. If someone hadn’t invented tennis or golf or basketball, some people would be great athletes regardless. Yeah Serena probably wouldn’t be great at gymnastics or soccer. So what? They’re made up games. She’s preternaturally strong. Has amazing endurance and above average reflexes. She’s a great athlete. You don’t need to analyze her abilities in other made up games to tell that.

Floyd Mayweather is perhaps the greatest living male athlete. I don’t think he could play D3 in any other sport. Doesn’t matter a bit.
 

Marciano490

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Like, is Brady a better QB and a better football player than Rogers and Kaepernick? Yes. Is he a better athlete? Not even close.
 

Reverend

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You guys always do this. Sports are made up games. If someone hadn’t invented tennis or golf or basketball, some people would be great athletes regardless. Yeah Serena probably wouldn’t be great at gymnastics or soccer. So what? They’re made up games. She’s preternaturally strong. Has amazing endurance and above average reflexes. She’s a great athlete. You don’t need to analyze her abilities in other made up games to tell that.

Floyd Mayweather is perhaps the greatest living male athlete. I don’t think he could play D3 in any other sport. Doesn’t matter a bit.
Like, is Brady a better QB and a better football player than Rogers and Kaepernick? Yes. Is he a better athlete? Not even close.
Remember how in '80s movies it was imagined that special forces guys were 260 pounds of muscle rucking through the jungle?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Speaking of which, what’re LeBron’s measurables? He never struck me as particularly fast or agile. Shit, I’d think Gronk is likely the better athlete, all in.
It was a matter of time before the phrase "Jumped the shark" came to mind in some of these offseason threads.

 

Jimbodandy

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It was a matter of time before the phrase "Jumped the shark" came to mind in some of these offseason threads.

Yeah.

I love me some Gronk, and certainly Marciano is right that we overvalue strength and speed in the "athleticism" evaluation. But we're losing sight of what a beast LBJ is. I'm fairly certain that he could join an NFL training camp right now and be a productive TE. Gronk wouldn't see the floor on a D1 college hoops team.
 

TripleOT

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LeBron could have been a top NFL receiver. Apparently, one of his coaches in HS was former Packer safety Mark Murphy, who was the defensive coordinator on LeBron's HS football team said the best four receivers he ever was around were Largent, Lofton, Rice, and LeBron.

James was a total beast as a wide receiver in high school in Ohio, an all stater in his soph and junior years, recruited by ND, Florida State, and Ohio State.
 

Eagle3

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This comes down to the definition of Athlete, which has a lot of different nuances to it.
There is raw, pure, athletic ability independent of sport, measured strictly by speed, strength, coordination, etc. Then there is
athletic ability as applied to playing a sport/game. And then there is specialized athletic ability as applied to a specific sport.

As mentioned, Brady and Mayweather are among the greatest athletes All-Time within the confines of their sport, but neither
would be anywhere near the list of those with great overall athletic ability. And then there are people who are amazingly fast
sprinters and/or are incredibly strong and/or have off the charts numbers in other measured tests of athletic ability, and yet they
are unable to apply that in a way that translates to excellence in a sport/game environment.

My personal definition when talking about ALL AROUND great athletes are the people who have the ability to apply their athleticism and
do well in pretty much ANY sport/game. That's why I'm taking Bo Jackson.
He had world class speed and incredible power and coordination, and applied that to the tune of being the only person ever
to be an All-Star in two different major sports (MLB and NFL). Not to mention 2 time state Decathlon champ in HS who set state records in the high jump and triple jump and had a really good college track and field career inbetween football and baseball. He was basically really, really good at anything he ever attempted, right on down to Archery.

Given his sucess at football in HS and his obvious raw physical gifts I'd say it's highly likely that Lebron would be really good at just about any sport.
But without tangible evidence, I'm sticking with Bo. Or Jim Brown. Or Jim Thorpe. Or Wilt Chamberlain as my sleeper pick.

Babe Didrickson is my pick for women, but that's strictly based on what I've read given that she died long before I was born.
She won 2 golds and a silver in the Olympics (hurdles, Javelin, and High Jump), was an All-American basketball player, won 10 major championships as a pro golfer, and even played some baseball. I'm not sure who the best living female candidate would be.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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LeBron could have been a top NFL receiver. Apparently, one of his coaches in HS was former Packer safety Mark Murphy, who was the defensive coordinator on LeBron's HS football team said the best four receivers he ever was around were Largent, Lofton, Rice, and LeBron.

James was a total beast as a wide receiver in high school in Ohio, an all stater in his soph and junior years, recruited by ND, Florida State, and Ohio State.
Wait, what? Mark Murphy who is president of the Packers? He played for Washington. Did you mean someone else?

And color me a little uninspired by his quote. Comparing a 16 yo kid who was a physical freak compared to his competition to Largent and Rice is a tad hyperbolic.

He’s a physical freak and always has been, but let’s not go too far here.
 

Eagle3

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Another definition of a great athlete is someone who makes everyone around them a better player.
So getting back to the original topic, how much impact do people here think Lebron will have on the rest of the Lakers?

As much as I will hate to see it as a Celtics fan and Lavar hater, I think he will make Lonzo much better in particular.
Lonzo will likely improve on his own as most good players do in their second year. But I think Lebron will indirectly help improve
his shooting. My theory is that Lonzo needs more time to get his shot off because of his unorthodox release. He was a pretty
good shooter in college because he had that time, but in the NBA with guys having more gap closing speed and length he didn't have
that time to get his shot off comfortably last year. With Lebron driving, drawing, and dishing as effectively as he does Lonzo is going to have that extra fraction of a second he needs much more often.
 

Kliq

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Seems so odd to me that basketball fans can't stand the best basketball player in world when it comes to basketball things
Is it that odd for people to dislike the best player in the world? People didn’t like Bonds, or A Rod, or Brady, or Ronaldo; etc.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Seems so odd to me that basketball fans can't stand the best basketball player in world when it comes to basketball things
Why? Most of us here got really tired really quickly of Manning’s on field antics (‘Omaha!’), the dramatic pre snap stuff, him throwing his teammates under the bus, etc. And he did enough good stuff to have a children’s hospital named after him (before the dirt came out anyway). What seems odd to me is being unable to separate the player from the person. He’s a goddamn role model off it and I respect the shit out of him. He’s a marvel on it and I acknowledge that and think he’s one of the greatest ever. But I’ll never root for him and that has nothing to do with my loyalties. I will gladly admit that part of it isn’t his fault, the way he gets ball washed by ESPN so much grated on me. But he does plenty enough.
 

InstaFace

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One way to say it is, when his playing days are over, he will be more universally beloved than just about any other GOAT candidate in any sport. Jordan-Federer tier of respect, and moral leadership / a public platform, if he wants it. Jordan didn't want it, Federer doesn't seem to, but the likes of Ali, Pele and Jackie Robinson are where he could put himself if he wanted to.

 

Tony C

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Is it that odd for people to dislike the best player in the world? People didn’t like Bonds, or A Rod, or Brady, or Ronaldo; etc.
Those guys are not the norm, though -- they're either accused of cheating (not necessarily correctly, of course) or in Ronaldo's case is just....an ass. But Messi is widely loved and for every Bonds could name 10 Ripkens who are widely appreciated.

A guy like James is a privilege to watch, no matter what his team. Jordan was the same, much as I rooted against the Bulls at the time you just had to also say, wow, I'm watching the greatest at a sport I love.

As for James making Lonzo Ball better, I'm intrigued by the mix of talent and I do think it'll be a test of whether LeBron is among the greatest ever or has a claim to be the greatest. His Miami team had the 3 studs and some complementary players and Cleveland was a bit similar in that with Kyrie -- as with Wade/Bosh -- it seemed like the star talent was used to take the pressure off...i..e, they'd alternate being the center of the offense and conserve energy that way, but always with a fair amount of ISO ball. The Lakers don't have a complementary star to LeBron, but they do have a ton of speed, passing ability, and guys (theoretically) on the rise like Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma. I think it'll be the first time LeBron's success will depend on raising the level of young players around him who have talent but not accomplishment. Going to be interesting to watch.
 

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Some of y'all are going to be mad disappointed if you ever meet your favorite musicians or artists at a party or something.
 

Kliq

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Those guys are not the norm, though -- they're either accused of cheating (not necessarily correctly, of course) or in Ronaldo's case is just....an ass. But Messi is widely loved and for every Bonds could name 10 Ripkens who are widely appreciated.

A guy like James is a privilege to watch, no matter what his team. Jordan was the same, much as I rooted against the Bulls at the time you just had to also say, wow, I'm watching the greatest at a sport I love.

As for James making Lonzo Ball better, I'm intrigued by the mix of talent and I do think it'll be a test of whether LeBron is among the greatest ever or has a claim to be the greatest. His Miami team had the 3 studs and some complementary players and Cleveland was a bit similar in that with Kyrie -- as with Wade/Bosh -- it seemed like the star talent was used to take the pressure off...i..e, they'd alternate being the center of the offense and conserve energy that way, but always with a fair amount of ISO ball. The Lakers don't have a complementary star to LeBron, but they do have a ton of speed, passing ability, and guys (theoretically) on the rise like Ingram, Ball, and Kuzma. I think it'll be the first time LeBron's success will depend on raising the level of young players around him who have talent but not accomplishment. Going to be interesting to watch.
So you can dislike Ronaldo because you think he’s “an ass” but there is no way you can feel the same way about LeBron?