Infield Infidel said:It would be helpful if a link to the whole article was posted instead of a link to a blogpost that pulled out a quote or two.
http://m.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2014/news/article/2014/07/02/world-cup-landon-donovan-critical-jurgen-klinsmanns-approach-i-dont-think-we
I'm interested...what in there do you think is incorrect?cromulence said:This just in: Landon Donovan is an asshole.
lars10 said:I'm interested...what in there do you think is incorrect?
cromulence said:
First of all, you've been somewhat anti-Klinsmann and were incensed about the Donovan omission, so please don't pretend like you're just curiously interested. The problem with what he said is that he's pretending that Jozy didn't get hurt. He's acting like it's a big mystery why they had to change the way they played instead of it being an unfortunate result of Jozy going down. He's also implying that it's Klinsmann's fault that they didn't do better which is, in my opinion, a shitty thing to do. No one has ever admired Landon Donovan for his strength of character and apparently that isn't about to change, and I'd be stunned if he ever plays for the national team again.
johnmd20 said:
Well duh. And it's hard to not have sympathy for Donovan. He could have helped that team. Say what you will about him, he knows how to put a ball into the net.
cromulence said:
He blew any sympathy by acting the way he has - I don't feel any for him whatsoever. And I don't know why you think it was always obvious he'd never play for the team again. That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion until he burned the bridge on his way out. Obviously Landon decided he didn't care to play for the team any more, but he still could have been a mature adult about it. At heart, he's still got some Landycakes in him.
johnmd20 said:
I maintain that he has every right to be pissed. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be world class to begin with. And why would he keep playing for the USMNT after he was cut from the World Cup? It was a foregone conclusion, it's not like he's getting younger and JK made it clear that he thought the team was better without him.
:blink:johnmd20 said:
I maintain that he has every right to be pissed. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be world class to begin with. And why would he keep playing for the USMNT after he was cut from the World Cup? It was a foregone conclusion, it's not like he's getting younger and JK made it clear that he thought the team was better without him.
cromulence said:
No one said he had to be happy about it, but he's acted like a petulant child about it, which is his MO. As for why he could keep playing, maybe because there's more to the national team than the World Cup? If Donovan had been willing to play at the Gold Cup next year, I wouldn't have been surprised if Klinsmann would have taken him. And, honestly, are you a bigger fan of the USMNT or Landon Donovan? Seems more like the latter.
This is silly. You're the only one making it an either/or proposition. One can dislike JK's decisions and still like JK. One can disagree with Donovan getting cut and not be "anti-Klinsmann."cromulence said:
No one said he had to be happy about it, but he's acted like a petulant child about it, which is his MO. As for why he could keep playing, maybe because there's more to the national team than the World Cup? If Donovan had been willing to play at the Gold Cup next year, I wouldn't have been surprised if Klinsmann would have taken him. And, honestly, are you a bigger fan of the USMNT or Landon Donovan? Seems more like the latter.
So you never know. ... But my feeling as a player, if I'm in that locker room before that game – before the Germany game, before the Belgium game – and the coach walked in and said we're playing a 4-5-1 and Clint [Dempsey] is up top by himself, I would have been disappointed.
...
"Michael was put in the wrong position," he said. "He was put in a position that he's not used to playing. He does a better job, as you saw with Julian Green's goal, being in a deeper position. And having someone in a front of him, someone to help Clint also, makes him that much better because he's got more opportunity to pick out different passes, more attacking options ahead of him. I think that was clearly an error."
He said it was "tough to watch " because "as athletes, we all feel that we can help."
I'm not going to get into whether Donovan should have said it but I think his points on tactics are right. Klinsmann does quite a few things well but I think he did play somewhat negatively and also some key players like Bradley and Dempsey out of position.crystalline said:Donovan's a little biased of course, but is he correct on tactics?
Once Altidore was out, would the US have been better off with Bradley at the base of the diamond, Donovan at the tip and Dempsey forward? The Altidore injury hurt.
Homa said:Donovan was never world class. He had the potential to become a world class player but he didn't realize it.
They were played out of position due injury. Go watch the Nigeria game and tell me they looked out of position.triniSox said:I'm not going to get into whether Donovan should have said it but I think his points on tactics are right. Klinsmann does quite a few things well but I think he did play somewhat negatively and also some key players like Bradley and Dempsey out of position.
Give Dempsey Donovan's talent and we have our world class player.soxfan121 said:
One thousand times, THIS.
Silverdude2167 said:Give Dempsey Donovan's talent and we have our world class player.
Given his history of quitting stuff, I maintain that expecting to be named to the team based on name is foolish.johnmd20 said:I maintain that he has every right to be pissed.
johnmd20 said:If he wasn't, he wouldn't be world class to begin with.
After quitting on the team, saying that he wasn't motivated anymore, why would he expect to keep playing through the World Cup. Other guys didn't act like this.johnmd20 said:And why would he keep playing for the USMNT after he was cut from the World Cup?
Klinesman also recalled him before after he quit on the team...there isn't any evidence he wouldn't do it again for the Gold Cup or the Copa America.johnmd20 said:It was a foregone conclusion, it's not like he's getting younger and JK made it clear that he thought the team was better without him.
DLew On Roids said:Also, Landycakes can suck it. He's always put his off-the-field life ahead of his talent. That's fine if that's his choice, but he owes the maniacal competitors who would cut off their arms to play in the national team something more than this passive-aggressive bullshit.
DLew On Roids said:Because saying that someone who didn't put his career first for the 12-15 years he had a chance to do it should keep his yap shut is exactly like overpraising a mediocre player. :fap:
DrewDawg said:It's important to remember that nickandemmasuncle's second choice of handles was landonsdad.
I don't get it. Is DLew agreeing with a media and "insider" created narrative that Donovan's value based on hardwork, grittiness, and inherent whiteness in the face of objective evidence to the contrary?nickandemmasuncle said:Yes, I'm sure your scathing critique of "Landycakes'" perceived commitment level, juxtaposed with your glowing praise for the "maniacal competitors who would cut their arms off to play in the national team", is strictly a comment on how Donovan is dealing with the media, and is not at all reflective of some broader Dirt Dog/gritty/Eckstein/Rudy Ruettiger-type argument that would get someone laughed off the main board.
I was interested...and was not 'incensed' I don't think...I'm not sure why you try to guess what I'm thinking though. My opinion of LD's omission was shared by a lot of people and soccer pundits...I wasn't alone..so I don't think that makes me a 'LD fanboy'. I just wanted the best US team possible. You disagree that he should have been there...that's fine.cromulence said:
First of all, you've been somewhat anti-Klinsmann and were incensed about the Donovan omission, so please don't pretend like you're just curiously interested. The problem with what he said is that he's pretending that Jozy didn't get hurt. He's acting like it's a big mystery why they had to change the way they played instead of it being an unfortunate result of Jozy going down. He's also implying that it's Klinsmann's fault that they didn't do better which is, in my opinion, a shitty thing to do. No one has ever admired Landon Donovan for his strength of character and apparently that isn't about to change, and I'd be stunned if he ever plays for the national team again.
He didn't create the player pool. We have no backups at striker who can do what Jozy does.Dan to Theo to Ben said:So people are protecting JK because he willingly composed a team that had no backup at striker?
I don't get it.
Nothing Landon said was really wrong,and I admire passion in my players. In my mind it would worse if Landon gave the appearance that he didn't care. In most parts of life sour grapes is bitter; not in this context.
I do like what he did from the standpoint of 2018 and the future though, and it made sense that way.
Then he should have kept other players that could have provided flexibility for another style of play / formation etc. in case Jozy got hurt.Cellar-Door said:He didn't create the player pool. We have no backups at striker who can do what Jozy does.
This is where I think JK failed. He picked players to fit a formation and strategy and left no room for a change in strategy or injuries. I know you can't plan for injuries, but JK's choices left us super thin at very key positions...especially at mid if your intent is to have two wingers running the sideline where he chose either a 32 year old Davis or players like Zusi that are just too slow to play that style at this level. I think it was fairly telling that two of our best attacking players were defensemen or placed defensively. I would have been interested to have seen jones or Johnson play more of an attacking mid. Or to have seen Mix play at all..JK's change to bring MB forward seemed to make him obsolete.Dan to Theo to Ben said:Then he should have kept other players that could have provided flexibility for another style of play / formation etc. in case Jozy got hurt.
I can see building around Messi, Neymar, even Balotelli, but Jozy isn't good enough to build around to be irreplaceable.
Boyd was available, too, if he was hellbent on having a single holding striker.
Well in that formation the outside backs are supposed to be a major part of your offense (more so than the "outside" midfielders who are covering for the fullbacks' runs). The formation is the one that I think is best for almost all of our players. It takes advantage of what Johnson, Beasley and Yedlin do best which is bomb forward with pace. It let us play 2 DM (we have about 5 of them), to protect Besler and Cameron/Gonzo. The problem of course is that we only have 1 striker who can hold up the ball and let Dempsey play under him and that we don't really have a player who can keep possession and create in midfield so Bradley gets it. Moving Dempsey up top worked decently against Portugal I thought, it wasn't great against Belgium and Germany, but we lost those because our possession is shit.lars10 said:This is where I think JK failed. He picked players to fit a formation and strategy and left no room for a change in strategy or injuries. I know you can't plan for injuries, but JK's choices left us super thin at very key positions...especially at mid if your intent is to have two wingers running the sideline where he chose either a 32 year old Davis or players like Zusi that are just too slow to play that style at this level. I think it was fairly telling that two of our best attacking players were defensemen or placed defensively. I would have been interested to have seen jones or Johnson play more of an attacking mid. Or to have seen Mix play at all..JK's change to bring MB forward seemed to make him obsolete.
On a positive side Yedlin showed he may be ready as did Green and Brooks possibly.
I don't think he ever had that potential.Homa said:Donovan was never world class. He had the potential to become a world class player but he didn't realize it.
Cellar-Door said:Well in that formation the outside backs are supposed to be a major part of your offense (more so than the "outside" midfielders who are covering for the fullbacks' runs). The formation is the one that I think is best for almost all of our players. It takes advantage of what Johnson, Beasley and Yedlin do best which is bomb forward with pace. It let us play 2 DM (we have about 5 of them), to protect Besler and Cameron/Gonzo. The problem of course is that we only have 1 striker who can hold up the ball and let Dempsey play under him and that we don't really have a player who can keep possession and create in midfield so Bradley gets it. Moving Dempsey up top worked decently against Portugal I thought, it wasn't great against Belgium and Germany, but we lost those because our possession is shit.
I don't know what other formation people think we should have gone to? We've looked pretty bad in most others. This formation created a decent amount of chances against Portugal and some good counters against Belgium.
The real problem is that we can't control possession, and no formation is going to do much for that, it is a player pool problem more than anything.
I didn't realize AJ got hurt vs. Ghana...so my failing on that. I thought AJ was an interesting choice and I'm interested to see what he does going forward. I like what I've seen in our young guys.BoredViewer said:Johannsson was also injured in the first match and lost for the tournament.
Who do you bring? A guy (Boyd) that's a pretty poor man's version of Jozy and that would likely never play unless multiple injuries hit... or a guy (Wondo) that has shown a knack for taking loose balls and sticking the ball in the back of the net - and that you could actually see a role for late in games?
I almost edited 'failed' or whatever... I never expected the US to get farther than they did and was pleasantly surprised at how well they did. But, if the entire point is to progress in 2018, I think JK made some weird decisions if that was his ultimate goal.Homa said:Isn't this whole critic of Klinsmann overblown? When I read "failed" or "key mistakes" I wonder what expectations someone had for the team. Reaching at least the quarters? Semis?
As far as I can see Klinsmann got pretty good results with a rather mediocre side. Small changes at the margins, and that is all that gets discussed here, wouldn't have turned the US into a vastly better team with a much better outlook.