La Liga 2016-2017: General News & Commentary

SoxFanInCali

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Quite frankly I'm not sure why any top level coach would even want that gig. When the expectation is winning La Liga AND the Champions League it's practically impossible to be a success.
Well, generally you have to have been a big success somewhere else to get the job, and everyone knows that you're going to get fired within a couple years unless you win 3 or 4 trophies each season, so it's not really going to be considered a black mark when it happens.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Just read a tweet that Ronaldo has 25 goals this year, with 6 coming from penalty kicks. Of the 25 goals, 6 against Malmo, 5 against Espanyol, and 5 against Shakhtar. I wonder how much of a problem Ronaldo has become for the team.
The full list. Obviously 25 goals is still impressive (even with six penalties) but he really has contributed very little against better sides. Ronaldo has played a zillion minutes in his career because he started early, has almost never been injured, and has played on clubs that go deep into every competition. He has an amazing number of miles on his tires and I wouldn't be surprised if the end is a lot closer than one might assume. Somebody - most likely PSG, but hopefully Manchester United - will pay stupid money for him this summer and sign him to a 4 year contract they will almost immediately regret.

 

Mighty Joe Young

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Well, generally you have to have been a big success somewhere else to get the job, and everyone knows that you're going to get fired within a couple years unless you win 3 or 4 trophies each season, so it's not really going to be considered a black mark when it happens.
All true .. I suppose it depends on the incoming manager's motivation. If they buy into the Galactico philosophy well I suppose it's the glamour job. But as you mentioned it's only going to be offered to the top echelon of managers. I doubt if they measure their career accomplishments based on how many seasons they last at Real.
 

coremiller

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Well you do get paid a ton of money. Ancelloti was reportedly making 8m euors/year and got paid 4m euros as compensation when he was fired.. Benitez's salary was reported at 4m eurors/year, and he reportedly got a 9.5m euro settlement, so he got paid something 11m euors for 7 months work (if those numbers are right, which who knows). Not too bad.
 

bosox4283

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Real Madrid steamrolled Deportivo this year, winning 5-0. It's only one match, so I'm not going to draw any conclusions about Zidane's ability to motivate players. Instead, the early tactical difference is that Zidane seems to be insisting that Bale, Benzema, and Ronaldo contribute more on defense, when Real Madrid does not have the ball. Over the last few years, I sensed that Real Madrid was beatable because the BBC would give an offense-only effort. It seems that Zidane wants more from his three stars. The first game was a success, and it'll be interesting to see if Zidane can get those three to committee to a more intensive playing style.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Wow, that's pretty big news for La Liga and for the transfer market in general. If these clubs can't buy, they're going to be very loathe to sell as well.

Poor David De Gea may never get his move to Madrid.
 

bosox4283

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Real Madrid and Atlético are both given transfer bans for the next two windows (summer 2016 and winter 2016/17) for breaking rules around the transfer of minors.

Undoubtedly appeals will be forthcoming. This sounds like the same stuff that Barcelona got nailed for, though.
Given the punishment given to Barcelona, I'm doubtful either team will win an appeal.

For Atletico, I tend to think that this ban will not cause problems. In fact, I think Atletico may have suspected this punishment, hence the aggressive signing of Augusto Fernandez, the defensive midfielder from Celta. Furthermore, Atleti has a handful of players on loan that could be helpful next year in some capacity: Emiliano Velazquez, a 21-year-old Uruguayan CB who is at Getafe; Javier Manquillo, a 21-year-old right back who is at Marseille after a year at Liverpool; Joshua Guilaogui, a 25-year-old French DM who is at Wolfsburg; and Borja Gonzalez, a 23-year-old striker who is having an excellent season at Eibar with 9 goals through 17 matches.

In other words, Atletico has enough young players on the roster and enough players on loan that there is depth and talent to withstand the ban over these next two purchasing windows. In fact, the inability to spend money may allow Atletico to continue paying down its debts.

Real Madrid, on the other hand, may miss out on bringing in some big names, such bringing Morata back from Juventus or signing Podga, supposedly on Zidane's wish-list. The team has enough talent on the squad, but depth could be a bit of a factor.
 

Zososoxfan

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Real will likely go bonkers in the next two weeks and sign a bunch of tickets (see: Douglas @ Barca) in order to at least try and build some depth. I'll take bosox's word for it and Atleti will not do the same.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Real will likely go bonkers in the next two weeks and sign a bunch of tickets (see: Douglas @ Barca) in order to at least try and build some depth. I'll take bosox's word for it and Atleti will not do the same.
In theory, it seems like they could also sign players like De Gea or Hazard that they planned to get in the summer, then loan those players back to their original clubs for the rest of this season (likely a condition of signing them in January). In practice, I don't know whether this would really happen. These deals often are super complex and take months to negotiate in terms of how the financing works and the details of the player contracts so whether that can all come together in two weeks is unclear to me.

While you guys were able to appeal and get the ban postponed so that you could use that summer to sign Suarez and others, Barca received the punishment in April so the time frame was reasonable. Its hard to imagine the appeals process dragging out so long in this case that Real and Atleti can sign players this summer.

Its an interesting situation because many people have speculated on a major squad shake up at Real this summer - selling Ronaldo to PSG and maybe Benzema as well, actively pursuing the likes of Hazard, Icardi, and Pogba, etc. So where do they go now?

Also, worth noting that in the last six months Real has...

-sacked Ancellotti and hired Rafa Benitez, of all people.
-screwed up the De Gea transfer because they couldn't send a fax properly.
-gotten booted from the Copa del Rey due to fielding an ineligible player.
-replaced Benitez with somebody who has never managed a top flight team before.
-gotten hit with a two window transfer ban.
-quite likely to go a second straight year without winning anything

You have to wonder how long before there is an internal revolution against Perez.
 

wonderland

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It's worth noting that Pep's resume when he was hired wasn't all that much different from Zidane's.

I'm not guaranteeing that Zidane will be a success but he has knowledge of the roster and the club itself that gives him a leg up compared to an outside hire.
 

Schnerres

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Transfer bans for both Madrid clubs lifted (as expected) due to their formal protest@court. Bans may still come in the summer.
 
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Possibly dumb question: why are all 10 games in La Liga this weekend scheduled for 11am ET on Sunday? Is this sort of like the last games in a World Cup Finals group?
 

Schnerres

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Several leagues do this, as you would know, what would play for.
In Germany, Spain, France, Netherlands, it´s the last two league matches that all start at the same time and date.
In England and Italy, it´s just the last one. Obviously, there are many occasions when the league is already decided.
What that means? Well, in Italy, Roma is 3rd, Napoli is 2nd. Roma plays tomorrow and are finished before Napoli starts. Let´s say Roma lose (unlikely, but possible) and Napoli draws. Napoli would get ahead by 3 points and the direct CL spot is almost garanteed (better goal +/-) with 3 more points and one match to play. Napoli could settle for the draw in the last minute, instead of running for the 3 points and possibly losing.
If they are playing at the same time, such scenarios are much harder to think through with guys sitting on radios/TVs and checking what happens in other stadiums. Of course, it will happen also, but i guess it just affects your play on the last day of the season.

In Germany, you basically know Bayern will most definitely will be champion, Dortmund 2nd and Leverkusen in 3rd, which is kind of boring. But the rest if up for grabs, you don´t know 4-7 (one CL, 3 Europa League spots), who will get relegated with Hannover, who will play relegation matches (up to Augsburg in 12th position, so it´s basically 6 teams fighting for survival), so if you had them playing one after another, it would be boring and everybody knew what would be enough and you had teams settling for results.
 
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OK yeah that was my confusion. Doing it for the last week makes sense, doing it for the second-to-last week made me think there was some kind of holiday.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Given that they all played at the same time last week, it's strange that for the final week Real Sociedad and Valencia played Friday, 4 games are Saturday, and 5 are being played Sunday. The Deportivo - Real Madrid and Granada - Barca games are being held simultaneously on Saturday, though.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Copa del Rey is 0-0 in second half stoppage time. Barca has been playing with 10 the entire second half after Mascherano was sent off, and Suarez went out injured early in the 2nd half. Bad day for ex-Liverpool players.

The ref has missed about 7 fouls in the last 5 minutes, letting absolutely everything go. One of the Sevilla players just got away with what should have been a second yellow.
 

SoxFanInCali

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And as I say that, Sevilla are down to 10 after a straight red for fouling Neymar just outside the box when he was clear through on goal.
 

speedracer

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I thought Barca should have being going all-out to score a winner starting around 75' in order to avoid ET, but that works also.
 

bosox4283

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Sevilla played well when they were up a man, but not well enough to score a goal. It's a shame for Sevilla because I was really impressed with how they played. Messi, Iniesta, and Pique were all fantastic -- amazing players coming up big when needed most.
 

bosox4283

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That's amazing. My wife is Spanish, so I've spent a lot of time in Spain. I always love the way Spanish people make arguments with their face, arms, and body. The words are good and important, but the non-verbal communication is often the best part.
 

bosox4283

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Sergio Ramos injured his knee in Spain's second World Cup qualifier, and he'll be out for about six weeks.
 

bosox4283

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Surprisingly, this year's La Liga isn't boring. Well, so far.

Atletico, Real Madrid, Sevilla, Barcelona, Villarreal, and Athletic are within three points, from 18 to 15, after 7 matches. Given the talent gap, everyone expects Sevilla, Villarreal, and Athletic to slip at some point, but I hope they stay fighting as long as possible. The league is much more exciting when it's not a three-horse race (or, worse yet, a two-horse race if/when Atletico cannot match the pace of RM and Barca).
 

bosox4283

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The first 9 weeks of La Liga have been incredibly exciting, and I hope it stays this way the rest of the reason, even if that means Atletico doesn't win the title.

We have:
Real Madrid - 21
Sevilla - 20
Barcelona - 19
Villarreal - 19
Atletico - 18
Athletic - 15

Athletic played Real Madrid tough this past week, and could have walked away with a draw. It's amazing what they do with such a small pool from which to draw players.

Sevilla and Villarreal are really models for any mid-sized or small club: they buy well, sell well, find the right coaches, scout the right young talent, and use the loan-market well. Monchi at Sevilla is particularly skillful: he might be one of the best in the business.
 

bosox4283

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Ronaldo just signed a five-year deal that keeps him at Real Madrid through June 2021, when he'll be 36. He's a physical fitness maniac and in phenomenal shape, and he's yet to show true signs of slowing. But it will be interesting to see how he adapts as he gets older and as his legs gain more and more wear and tear.
 

Zososoxfan

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Ronaldo just signed a five-year deal that keeps him at Real Madrid through June 2021, when he'll be 36. He's a physical fitness maniac and in phenomenal shape, and he's yet to show true signs of slowing. But it will be interesting to see how he adapts as he gets older and as his legs gain more and more wear and tear.
The interesting thing here IMO is that the report I read said he will be the highest paid RM player during this time. While keeping Crissy happy works this year and maybe next, I don't know how long Bale, or the next phenom will be willing to let this be the case. CRon is a generational talent, but I think his game will suffer more quickly than Messi's because of the latter's passing ability, which is globally elite. IOW, Messi could choose to become Xavi whenever he wants.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Messi and Ronaldo are the most famous athletes since Michael Jordan. What they bring to their clubs goes well beyond scoring goals. These two clubs print money. They can deal with not getting an optimal performance return on their deals.

When Ronaldo or Messi gets old, their contracts will not be the problem. Maybe their egos will cause issues, but I really doubt that it would be something that would sink their clubs. The problem will be realizing there isn't another Messi or Ronaldo to be bought or developed.
 

bosox4283

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Madrid Derby tomorrow! It's a special one: it's the final Derby in Calderon, Atleti's stadium. It's a bit hard to determine who is going to play after the international break, so I'm not able to provide projected line-ups at this point.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Bale out with ankle surgery. Won't be back until the Spring. I'd give James the first crack on the right, but there's no one on the roster who can replace his workrate.
 

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Apparently Celta Vigo's goal-scored stadium song is "I Will Survive". Which now that I consider it, with all the brass on the instrumental solo, does sound a little bit Spanish. But only a little bit.

I wonder how many people in the stadium could name who originally sang that.
 

bosox4283

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Bale out with ankle surgery. Won't be back until the Spring. I'd give James the first crack on the right, but there's no one on the roster who can replace his workrate.
Zidane has shown tremendous faith in two players from the youth-system, Marco Asensio and Lucas Vazquez. I think these two will get more playing time.

When Casemiro returns, Zidane could play Casemiro in the middle, with Kroos and Modric around him. The question, then, is where James falls on Zidane's list. It's possible that Asensio, Vazquez, Mateo Kovacic, and Morata are ahead of James.
 

Zososoxfan

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Sociedad and Barca played an absolutely brilliant match yesterday. Although the result was a 1-1 draw, Sociedad deserved 3 points. Barca's MF was nonexistent. Iniesta is clearly missed. Some of this is due to the Clasico coming up and the midweek game in Glasgow, but Lucho should probably try to rotate a bit more before the new year. Yesterday was begging for Rafinha and/or Turan. D. Suarez has played pretty well, but Gomes has struggled thus far. Alcacer is not ready for non-CDR matches. Neymar had one of his best games I've seen in awhile, with L. Suarez and Messi (other than his brilliant goal) being off. Moreover, it should be said that Sociedad played brilliantly and it made for an exciting match. I wonder if this is due in part to the expected TV money and the quality of players filtering down beyond the big 3 (that's for you Bosox!). If La Liga gets a bit more parity, I think the league will benefit immensely and the quality and aesthetics of the football will be unparalleled.
 

bosox4283

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Sociedad and Barca played an absolutely brilliant match yesterday. Although the result was a 1-1 draw, Sociedad deserved 3 points. Barca's MF was nonexistent. Iniesta is clearly missed. Some of this is due to the Clasico coming up and the midweek game in Glasgow, but Lucho should probably try to rotate a bit more before the new year. Yesterday was begging for Rafinha and/or Turan. D. Suarez has played pretty well, but Gomes has struggled thus far. Alcacer is not ready for non-CDR matches. Neymar had one of his best games I've seen in awhile, with L. Suarez and Messi (other than his brilliant goal) being off. Moreover, it should be said that Sociedad played brilliantly and it made for an exciting match. I wonder if this is due in part to the expected TV money and the quality of players filtering down beyond the big 3 (that's for you Bosox!). If La Liga gets a bit more parity, I think the league will benefit immensely and the quality and aesthetics of the football will be unparalleled.
Gracias for the shout-out!

One interesting thing about Real Sociedad is that they have a few players who were at big clubs but didn't make it for one reason or another.

Illarramendi lasted two seasons at Real Madrid. Granero come up through RM and spent a few seasons there. Vela couldn't break through at Arsenal. Canales didn't make it at Real Madrid. Beyond those four, there has been reported interest from the big clubs in Inigo Martinez for a while, and Oyarzabal is a very promising young talent. That's a fantastic core.
 

InstaFace

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It must not just be their current roster, either. BAR @ RSO recent history, since Real Sociedad's promotion:

2010-11: RSO 2-1 BAR (Barca's only road loss of the year)
2011-12: RSO 2-2 BAR
2012-13: RSO 3-2 BAR
2013-14: RSO 3-1 BAR
2014-15: RSO 1-0 BAR
2015-16: RSO 1-0 BAR
2016-17: RSO 1-1 BAR

They've been an absolute thorn in Pep and Lucho's sides. Real Sociedad's league finish in those years: 15, 12, 4, 7, 12, 9, and currently 5th.
 

InstaFace

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Oh, also, El Clasico is this Saturday morning, 10:15 ET. On their recent form, Barcelona look like they'll get wrecked. On the other hand, it's at Camp Nou, Zidane is down one Gareth Bale and Iniesta is set to return.
 

bosox4283

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With Barcelona at home, I expect Barca to get a result. Iniesta will help balance the team, and Real Madrid's younger players--Kovacic and Lucas Vazquez--may feel the pressure.
 

Zososoxfan

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I didn't see a lot of Barca/Madrid talk in the Clasico thread, so figured I'd respond here. Barca and Madrid played a disjointed match, with Barca taking the lead on an excellent free kick by Neymar for a Suarez header. In the 89th minute, Ramos (obviously, ugh) beat his mark by Masche and headed home. I watched in a bar, so was more caught up in the excitement than paying attention to tactics or execution, but I thought this was an interesting read:

http://www.totalbarca.com/2016/12/messis-lack-position-breaking-system-clasico-thoughts-gifs/

I don't think the author gives enough credit to the fact that Messi playing very fluidly can completely take a defense out of their strategy, but I think the author is also correct in that it also disrupts a lot of Barca's attacks. I think there is value to Messi playing deeper and I think eventually Barca should switch to a 4-2-1-3 with Messi as the 1 as he gets older, but the examples given were true. Some of this is exacerbated by the fact that Sergi is not Alves and is more comfortable playing like a MF, but some blame has to be given to Messi occasionally too.
 

InstaFace

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It didn't matter as to the result, but the first goal given up by Atleti against Villarreal today was an absolute defensive atrocity that I'd expect of an MLS team, not arguably the best defensive team in the world.

The second was an incredible individual play by Dos Santos - note in the replay, it took two touches, the first was off the post.
 

bosox4283

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It didn't matter as to the result, but the first goal given up by Atleti against Villarreal today was an absolute defensive atrocity that I'd expect of an MLS team, not arguably the best defensive team in the world.

The second was an incredible individual play by Dos Santos - note in the replay, it took two touches, the first was off the post.
It's been a fun ride being a fan of Atletico de Madrid, and I have no plans to change allegiances. That said, if I could go back in time, I might have chosen Villarreal. They are one of the best in the world at finding and developing talent, and play an excellent brand of football.

They destroyed Atletico yesterday -- hats off to them for playing a great match.
 

Zososoxfan

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Watched the Atleti match on Saturday and was very confused at first as Gijon was rocking the Atleti kit while Atleti were in some sharp black and yellow. Nevertheless, I was shocked with the final scoreline after a horrendous first half from the Madrilenos. They somehow survived the half 0-0 and took over in the second. Griezmann is fast approaching best striker non-Messi/CRonaldo division. He has to be a top 10 player no doubt and is probably closer to top 5. Gameiro and Carrasco had nice games too. Simeone made some astute substitutions in the second half and Atleti finished the match looking strong. Simeone is also a top 5 manager in the game right now IMO.

Meanwhile, over in Barcelona the Blaugrana pretty much shit themselves again escaping with a fortunate 2-1 win over relegation zone Leganes. Barca started brightly with Suarez playing an impeccable cross for Messi who finished in front of the net. Thereafter though, Barca did not control the game in their typical fashion. They gave up many chances and did not finish theirs. If the finishing had been a bit better, the scoreline would've been a bit more flattering, but this team seems to be fatigued at the moment. Lucho went with a MF of Rakitic, Gomes, and Rafinha to start and it appeared as if Rak and Gomes at times were both holding MF although later Gomes began to sit between Mathieu and Umtiti. Injuries are starting to really deplete the squad as the past couple of matches were begging for Arda and Masche. The Vidal injury also took away any possibility of playing Roberto at DMF, so Lucho should be given some slack. However, it seems pretty obvious to me that Rakitic in the DMF with Denis and Rafinha in front of him should at least be tried. Rakitic is an excellent passer and can win the ball. One last observation - MaTS has really come on strong the past couple of weeks. I have been one of his biggest detractors but his shot stopping has been excellent and he has reduced a lot of his mental errors. If he keeps this up I will eat crow and admit that he could be the Barca keeper for the next several years and be one of the best in the world.
 

Zososoxfan

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Barca took 3 hard won points from Atleti at the Calderon today. Very tight game throughout with lots of interesting tactics. First, the goals. Rafinha put in a goal from close range after bouncing around off a corner. Umititi used some fancy skill to get the ball towards the goal. Atleti responded well with Godin doing Godin things and nicking a header off a set piece free kick in the final third. Finally, Messi buried a terrific chance from close range in the 86th minute.

From a tactical perspective, Barca came out in a 3-4-3! Pique, Umititi, and Mathieu in the back; Busquets, Rafinha, Iniesta, and Roberto in MF; and SNM up front. In the first half, I thought Barca looked out of sorts and Atleti was much more threatening. Gameiro looks very good up front as a partner for Griezmann. Koke and Saul provided good support, while Gabi kept everything in front of him. Felipe Luis started lots of promising attacks up the left per usual. Busquets looked lost roaming up the field to press and Iniesta once again looked slow to me. Roberto played like a FB a bit, but went central right next to Rafinha on offense. In fact, that was a negative feature of this setup - the spacing between Rafinha, Iniesta, and Roberto was not good. In the second half though, Barca was able to pin Luis back and had a much better half. The goals were a bit of one offs, but in a game this tight, I'd pretty much expect them to be. Barca also looked more excited for this game and despite some confusion with the tactics, the effort was there. Messi was even seen tracking back a few times! Although his play until the goal wasn't very good for his standards. Digne came off for an injured Mathieu (ugh) and Rakitic came on for Iniesta. Gomes made an appearance late in the game too and didn't screw anything up. Yay.
 
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Zososoxfan

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Barca sticking with the 3-4-3 against Sporting today. Masche(!)-Umtiti-Alba(!) at the back. High energy MF with Busi-Rafinha-Rak-Denis.SNM up front. HERE WE GO!
 

Zososoxfan

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Energetic first half from the blaugrana. Messi headed home beautifully from a long range Mascherano pass to get things started. Suarez then made a nice run into the box which a Gijonese defender put in himself by accident. Then Suarez hit an INCREDIBLE volley to make it 3. At one point, Gijon made a nice attack and pulled one back. In short, the offense looks very good and the defense continues to be a work in progress. Dennis looks incredibly good and should continue to get minutes. Busi still looks like he's not sure what to do on D. Messi continues to refuse to play a set position, coming back all the way to the defensive third to pickup the ball a couple of times, unecessarily so. But still, this team is insanely talented. I think Roberto should get a chance to play the DMF in this lineup since he's more mobile than Busi. Looks like Alcacer is coming on for the second half.