Kyrie is hurt and we have schadenfreude

Kliq

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Just a masterclass job by HRB; some of his best work in this thread tbh.
 

Bleedred

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Right that he had a real bad series? Wtf we all freakin know this! Imagine having a bad week at work as your boss and his VP go on television telling the world how much you suck. Name another player at his age….at ANY age….who has been thrown under the bus by so many people for having a bad playoff series?
lol..ok. Yeah, that's what people are saying. Moving on
 

Rheal With Cheese

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I am not a Ben Simmons defender. He was awful in that Philly-Atl series and the reason they lost.

but the “just dunk it” criticism is ridiculous

1) the ball was in his right hand as he got caught (or dribbled himself) too close to baseline before going up now Maybe he deserves criticism for putting himself that far low into a tough position to score when contested but the shot angle was tough.

Any NBA player should be able to score from there, but it would take a little bit longer…

2) because of that angle and the ball in his right and how long it would take. … I’m more convinced he was worried about a recovering Gallinari (?) coming from behind as opposed to Trey young in front of him. Part of that is he didn’t wanna take free throws,

but it wasn’t like he was driving from the elbow and got near the charge circle and passed up a layup
 

joe dokes

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1) the ball was in his right hand as he got caught (or dribbled himself) too close to baseline before going up now Maybe he deserves criticism for putting himself that far low into a tough position to score when contested but the shot angle was tough.

Any NBA player should be able to score from there, but it would take a little bit longer…

2) because of that angle and the ball in his right and how long it would take. … I’m more convinced he was worried about a recovering Gallinari (?) coming from behind as opposed to Trey young in front of him. Part of that is he didn’t wanna take free throws,

but it wasn’t like he was driving from the elbow and got near the charge circle and passed up a layup
He was going back and to the left?
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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I would not be surprised if the owners push for a provision in the new CBA where owners get some salary relief from players who are not playing due to decisions like Kyrie’s (and to some extent Simmons). I think the owners can live with some “player empowerment“ , but not where it extends to guys getting paid full freight and not playing due to their own decisions.
 
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Cellar-Door

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If it was such a nothing burger, why did noted players coach Doc Rivers hang Simmons out to dry afterwards?
Doc's #1 move is hanging guys out to dry. I mean a week ago he was throwing guys who played for him 20 years ago under the bus to try and counter the stories about his teams blowing a lot of 3-1 leads.

Doc isn't even a player's coach anymore, he's got a rep for hurling any and everyone under the bus rather than take even a little criticism.
 

djbayko

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Yeah but it has context and the other passes you’re talking about happen under completely different circumstances.. and aren’t remotely the same.

edit: a pass out to a three point shooter is completely different than one to a person standing right next to you who has a similar or worse angle
Forget the context. This right here is why the pass was so unbelievable. Comparing it to a kick out is weird. Add in the context and it finally makes sense.
 

dhellers

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I would not be surprised if the owners push for a provision in the new CBA where owners get some salary relief from players who are not playing due to decisions like Kyrie’s (and to some extent Simmons). I think the owners can live with some “player empowerment“ , but not where it extends to guys getting paid full freight and not playing due to their own decisions.
If the sacrificed salary is ALL given to the 10-15 role players, mignt not be a bad thing?
 

Cellar-Door

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Harden's elimination game line:
11 points on 4/9 shooting, 4 reb 9 ast 4 TO and dogshit defense.
Quietly this is not only worse than Simmons' closeout performance last year, it's worse by a lot.
 

lexrageorge

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Harden's elimination game line:
11 points on 4/9 shooting, 4 reb 9 ast 4 TO and dogshit defense.
Quietly this is not only worse than Simmons' closeout performance last year, it's worse by a lot.
I've heard of lose-lose trades before, but Harden for Simmons+ has to be by far the most lossy of them all.
 

kazuneko

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I've heard of lose-lose trades before, but Harden for Simmons+ has to be by far the most lossy of them all.
Isn't it looking more like a small-dunk fleecing of the 76ers by the Nets? The Nets not only got the preferable star of the two (as psychologically messed up as Simmons is at least he's not dealing with the incurable ailment of aging) they also got 2 first round draft picks and the third best 3 point shooter of all time (43.9%) on a reasonable contract.
I thought this was a dangerous trade for the 76ers when they made it, with Harden now being all-but worthless (he wouldn't be horrible if he'd be willing to sign a reasonable contact going forward- but that seems highly unlikely) it's close to their worst case scenario.
 

Cellar-Door

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Isn't it looking more like a small-dunk fleecing of the 76ers by the Nets? The Nets not only got the preferable star of the two (as psychologically messed up as Simmons is at least he's not dealing with the incurable ailment of aging) they also got 2 first round draft picks and the third best 3 point shooter of all time (43.9%) on a reasonable contract.
I thought this was a dangerous trade for the 76ers when they made it, with Harden now being all-but worthless (he wouldn't be horrible if he'd be willing to sign a reasonable contact going forward- but that seems highly unlikely) it's close to their worst case scenario.
yeah, probably. The argument that the Nets lost is that getting nothing from Simmons meant they burned a KD/Kyrie year, which is fair, but not sure they had a winning team with Harden (short bursts in 2020-21 notwithstanding). Also that they got so little (if Simmons isn't back) for a guy they traded a ton for.
 

ManicCompression

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To bring it back to Kyrie, his flakiness was one of the core drivers of "needing a third star" in Brooklyn. If he actually played instead of taking "mental breaks", I don't know that they feel the need to give up the farm for Harden. He is truly the destroyer of franchises. If you're the Nets, you have to just deal with the sunk cost and make the most of what you have. Could you S/T Kyrie for Hayward? Trade Simmons for Huerter/Capela? Options aren't great but they need actual guys around KD.
 

benhogan

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To bring it back to Kyrie, his flakiness was one of the core drivers of "needing a third star" in Brooklyn. If he actually played instead of taking "mental breaks", I don't know that they feel the need to give up the farm for Harden. He is truly the destroyer of franchises. If you're the Nets, you have to just deal with the sunk cost and make the most of what you have. Could you S/T Kyrie for Hayward? Trade Simmons for Huerter/Capela? Options aren't great but they need actual guys around KD.
Hayward is about as available as Kyrie. Gordo is comfy in his gamer chair.

The Nets have punched that Kyrie/KD ticket, they probably have to live with it. They have some picks from Philly. Curry and Brown are usable, worth keeping. Using Simmons in a trade to round out the roster and riding their BIG2 is not the worst path forward (and much better than the Philly situation)
 

Bleedred

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Hayward is about as available as Kyrie. Gordo is comfy in his gamer chair.

The Nets have punched that Kyrie/KD ticket, they probably have to live with it. They have some picks from Philly. Curry and Brown are usable, worth keeping. Using Simmons in a trade to round out the roster and riding their BIG2 is not the worst path forward (and much better than the Philly situation)
What are they getting for Simmons at this point?
 

Cellar-Door

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What are they getting for Simmons at this point?
Vets on mediocre contracts probably? He's a dice roll that a small market might be willing to take.

I'd also note that the Athletic's Hawks writer mentioned this week that the team might be interested if the price is right, since they tried to get him last deadline and they think the price might be lower now.

I think the Nets wait until he hits the court either way, the return for him before that isn't going to be good enough.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I would not be surprised if the owners push for a provision in the new CBA where owners get some salary relief from players who are not playing due to decisions like Kyrie’s (and to some extent Simmons). I think the owners can live with some “player empowerment“ , but not where it extends to guys getting paid full freight and not playing due to their own decisions.
This essentially sounds like a vaccine mandate which the players would never agree on and Kyrie wasn’t being paid for the home games missed. It was the teams decision to ban him from the road games so he should be paid for these as he was eligible to play.
 

Kliq

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I bet they just take the design and tech and put someone new's name on it... maybe Booker?
My bet would be Ja. Not sure what contract he currently has, but if we are looking at young, marketable players, he would have to top the list at this point in time.

Kyrie was a top shoe guy in the NBA so this is a pretty big deal.
 

Cellar-Door

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My bet would be Ja. Not sure what contract he currently has, but if we are looking at young, marketable players, he would have to top the list at this point in time.

Kyrie was a top shoe guy in the NBA so this is a pretty big deal.
Ja is a good one, for some reason I thought he was at Adidas with Trae.'
Ja and Booker are definitely the frontrunners.
 

JCizzle

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Ja is the most electric guy in the NBA, he'd be a great face for Nike. However, with his playstyle there's always the injury risk compared to a "safer" guy like Booker.
 

benhogan

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What are they getting for Simmons at this point?
I made a few suggestions BUT with KD/Kyrie get a few good players that play +++defense wouldn't be the worst outcome.

Ben Simmons is exactly what a lottery team should roll the dice on and he's a question mark the NETS don't need when you have KD.
 

Cesar Crespo

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My bet would be Ja. Not sure what contract he currently has, but if we are looking at young, marketable players, he would have to top the list at this point in time.

Kyrie was a top shoe guy in the NBA so this is a pretty big deal.
Was. Maybe pissing away millions and millions will motivate him to try and play 82 games a year. Then again, he seems like the type of person who wouldn't realize he's killing his brand.
 

Kliq

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Hmm...it would be enjoyable to see Kyrie get dumped by the Nets. At the same time, it has probably benefited the Celtics to see a conference rival get consistently undermined by his schadenfreude.
 

m0ckduck

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Hmm...it would be enjoyable to see Kyrie get dumped by the Nets. At the same time, it has probably benefited the Celtics to see a conference rival get consistently undermined by his schadenfreude.
Agree. This is like the Colts moving on from Ryan Grigson.
 

Kliq

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If Durant's demand is that the Nets NEED to sign Kyrie to some disaster contract; I'd trade Durant for a haul and start over. The league is moving past Durant anyways; and you have no future given all the assets they've given up to get their current talent. A haul for KD would allow you to jumpstart a proper rebuild.
 

nighthob

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The dream, of course, is a sign & trade with the Lakers for Westbrook and future LA picks.
 

Ed Hillel

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Setting up nicely for Kevin “if you can’t beat em, join em” Durant demanding a trade to Boston to play alongside Tatum. There’s your superstar return for Jaylen, folks.
 

RG33

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Setting up nicely for Kevin “if you can’t beat em, join em” Durant demanding a trade to Boston to play alongside Tatum. There’s your superstar return for Jaylen, folks.
I know this is more in jest than anything, but I have soured so much on KD as a person that I wouldn’t even want him on the Celtics. He just strikes me as such a miserable prick at this point, for no real reason. He’s an incredible basketball player obviously, but when you factor in his age, his attitude, and the fact that he hasn’t won anything as the lead dog, I want nothing to do with the guy.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I know this is more in jest than anything, but I have soured so much on KD as a person that I wouldn’t even want him on the Celtics. He just strikes me as such a miserable prick at this point, for no real reason. He’s an incredible basketball player obviously, but when you factor in his age, his attitude, and the fact that he hasn’t won anything as the lead dog, I want nothing to do with the guy.
To be clear, you’d want nothing to do with Kevin Durant playing alongside Jayson Tatum for the next 3-4 years? If I were Brad I’d give up a body part for him if the CBA would allow for it.
 

RG33

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To be clear, you’d want nothing to do with Kevin Durant playing alongside Jayson Tatum for the next 3-4 years? If I were Brad I’d give up a body part for him if the CBA would allow for it.
Yes.

I’d much rather ride this out with Jaylen and Smart over the next 5-10 years.
 

Mystic Merlin

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That’s fair. I’d prefer a potential dynasty with multiple Titles but to each their own. I see both sides.
I can’t see Durant going for it anyways, even assuming he wanted out and the Nets acquiesced, because of the very reason he left GS: he would be coming into a very good team of established stars who the fans love and who have played together for several years, and he would have little chance of becoming ‘the’ guy.
 

RG33

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That’s fair. I’d prefer a potential dynasty with multiple Titles but to each their own. I see both sides.
This team as currently constituted feels like a potential dynasty to me with two 25 year old wing playing stars to build around. KD is an oft-injured irascible star at this point whom I don’t want to root for at this point (and I was desperate for him to sign here before GSW).
 

Caspir

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The dream, of course, is a sign & trade with the Lakers for Westbrook and future LA picks.
How do you fit Kyrie and Durant alongside AD and Lebron? Seems impossible, but I am not good at the NBA cap, and these two goof balls are pretty much attached at the hip, so I'd imagine whatever team acquires one is doing so with the understanding that they would be taking on both of them.
 

The Social Chair

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There is little chance KD wants to live in Boston.

Clippers seem like the ideal spot if Brooklyn would want Kawhi.
 

lexrageorge

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How do you fit Kyrie and Durant alongside AD and Lebron? Seems impossible, but I am not good at the NBA cap, and these two goof balls are pretty much attached at the hip, so I'd imagine whatever team acquires one is doing so with the understanding that they would be taking on both of them.
There is no way for LA to acquire both KD and Kyrie. There is just no salary slot matching that makes that at all feasible. I interpreted @nighthob's comment to mean that it would be a dream for Celtics fans to watch the Nets acquire Westbrook and some worthless and/or distant Lakers draft picks for....something, I guess.

OTOH, Celtics could theoretically trade Brown (or Horford) and White for KD, while the Nets and Lakers do a sign-and-trade that sends Kyrie their way in exchange for Westbrook and some 2027/28/29 picks and swaps. But it ain't happening outside of this one forum post.