Kyrie is hurt and we have schadenfreude

joe dokes

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I think you still need to find a different word. I object to even this characterization. He uses big words once in a while but it's all gibberish.
Fair point. "Often nonsensical even if we ignore its non-relationship to reality" isn't really articulate.
 

djbayko

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View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1524128086287073281

“‘Go back to Cleveland, oh my God, Boston hates you, oh my God.' That’s how y’all sound to me, cockroaches.” Kyrie sounds off on his trolls during a GTA Twitch stream
Yeah, he apparently talked a lot on this stream about his time with the Cavs and Celtics. He impressed a few people over at r/NBA. Sorry, I'm not interested in hearing Kyrie try to whitewash what happened. At least one Cavs fan pointed out that his story doesn't align with what actually happened. Big surprise.
 

reggiecleveland

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I think you still need to find a different word. I object to even this characterization. He uses big words once in a while but it's all gibberish.
Schilling was coherent and clear. That is his problem. He has left no possibility he was misunderstood or taken out of context.

As a language teacher, I would describe Kyrie as "fluent". Fluent is often misused as being a native level user of a language. But, fluency is just the ability to smoothly pronounce words and put sentences together while talking. A person can have a high fluency, but still not understand all the words, or concepts they are using. Often in a family of newcomers, the six-year-old will have achieved fluency, while the 17-year-old struggles to talk with a thick accent, but the 17 year-old has a much deeper understanding of the new language, and everything else.

Fluency in athletes, especially black athletes (He speaks so well!) is overrated as a substitute for intelligence. We can probably come up with many examples of smooth talking "smart" athletes who never said anything of substance. There are also examples of black athletes dismissed because of their nonstandard English.
 

joe dokes

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Schilling was coherent and clear. That is his problem. He has left no possibility he was misunderstood or taken out of context.

As a language teacher, I would describe Kyrie as "fluent". Fluent is often misused as being a native level user of a language. But, fluency is just the ability to smoothly pronounce words and put sentences together while talking. A person can have a high fluency, but still not understand all the words, or concepts they are using. Often in a family of newcomers, the six-year-old will have achieved fluency, while the 17-year-old struggles to talk with a thick accent, but the 17 year-old has a much deeper understanding of the new language, and everything else.

Fluency in athletes, especially black athletes (He speaks so well!) is overrated as a substitute for intelligence. We can probably come up with many examples of smooth talking "smart" athletes who never said anything of substance. There are also examples of black athletes dismissed because of their nonstandard English.
Excellent breakdown.
 

Kliq

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Marks described the team he wanted to have in Brooklyn and it was basically the exact opposite of what they currently have:

View: https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/1524435743615197186?s=20&t=PjCU11L66Da1VJLLsfhr6A


Just watching the Milwaukee/Celtics series, and seeing how easy the Celtics breezed by Brooklyn and the relative lack of intensity compared to the Milwaukee series; it seems pretty clear that Brooklyn is really far away from true championship quality. Even a theoretically fine Ben Simmons wouldn't solve all of their problems.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Marks described the team he wanted to have in Brooklyn and it was basically the exact opposite of what they currently have:

View: https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/1524435743615197186?s=20&t=PjCU11L66Da1VJLLsfhr6A


Just watching the Milwaukee/Celtics series, and seeing how easy the Celtics breezed by Brooklyn and the relative lack of intensity compared to the Milwaukee series; it seems pretty clear that Brooklyn is really far away from true championship quality. Even a theoretically fine Ben Simmons wouldn't solve all of their problems.
Those were all the guys they traded away to get Harden, and the coach they canned for doing nothing but winning with them.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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Those were all the guys they traded away to get Harden, and the coach they canned for doing nothing but winning with them.
Indeed. I can see an alternate universe 2021-2022 Nets built around Jarrett Allen, D'Angelo Russell, and Spencer Dinwiddie that would have put up a better fight against the Celtics than the Durant-Kyrie team just did -- and all those younger guys have room to improve.
 

JCizzle

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I think it's more likely that Kyrie gets Marks fired than Kyrie getting traded (with neither scenario being likely). Unless KD is over the whole thing, he's in the driver seat and by most accounts Kyrie is still his guy.
 

joe dokes

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I think it's more likely that Kyrie gets Marks fired than Kyrie getting traded (with neither scenario being likely). Unless KD is over the whole thing, he's in the driver seat and by most accounts Kyrie is still his guy.
We'll find out soon. Marks clearly seems to be laying down a marker in public. And I assume Kyrie's rabbit ears got the message and he immediately scheduled a meeting with ownership.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Atkinson has a great rep in coach talk circles.
I was kind of hoping he'd end up in Boston, in a "bench coach" type role (not that Ime needed it, I just think Atkinson is a really good defensive coach, like Tibs was for Doc).

Indeed. I can see an alternate universe 2021-2022 Nets built around Jarrett Allen, D'Angelo Russell, and Spencer Dinwiddie that would have put up a better fight against the Celtics than the Durant-Kyrie team just did -- and all those younger guys have room to improve.
They already had Kyrie and Durant-could have kept all those guys (not Russell but Allen, Levert etc.) and not traded for Harden and then flipped him for Simmons and gotten zero out of either. Would have been a way better team with that depth plus rim protection from Allen.

Good for Marks for pushing back on the "I wasnt able to play" narrative from Kyrie. It's such a crock.
 

Euclis20

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Indeed. I can see an alternate universe 2021-2022 Nets built around Jarrett Allen, D'Angelo Russell, and Spencer Dinwiddie that would have put up a better fight against the Celtics than the Durant-Kyrie team just did -- and all those younger guys have room to improve.
Maybe, but let's be honest - a team built around those three guys would absolutely top out as the 6th seed, and would likely spend their primes not even guaranteed to make the play in games.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You're going to get a ton of replies, but this was the icing on the cake:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EHA4UhYuQY
This one play has taken on a life of its own. It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
 

Van Everyman

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This one play has taken on a life of its own. It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
Funny, it never occurred to me that Marcus Smart might be scared to shoot.
 

the moops

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This one play has taken on a life of its own. It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
Yea, I never quite got the complete disdain for Simmons for not dunking/shooting this. He lost control of the ball, regained, and started to go up and saw someone meeting him at the rim. It turned out to be Trae Young, so he shouldn't have passed it off, but the pass itself looked like it initially was going to result in a dunk for Thybulle
 

snowmanny

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This one play has taken on a life of its own. It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
Is that was this was? Wasn’t this Game 7 at home?

They lose Game 5 at home and Simmons makes 2-4 FG and 4-14 FT in 38+ minutes. In Game 7 he again makes 2-4 FG but only 1-2 FT in 35+ minutes because he is terrified to get fouled. Which in no small part contributed to the final exit from the playoffs for Philly. I think that’s what this is - him not wanting to risk getting fouled - but I’m sure we could find other clips of him making bizzaro decisions from that game if you’re unconvinced by that one.
 

chilidawg

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This one play has taken on a life of its own. It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
Thank you.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is that was this was? Wasn’t this Game 7 at home?

They lose Game 5 at home and Simmons makes 2-4 FG and 4-14 FT in 38+ minutes. In Game 7 he again makes 2-4 FG but only 1-2 FT in 35+ minutes because he is terrified to get fouled. Which in no small part contributed to the final exit from the playoffs for Philly. I think that’s what this is - him not wanting to risk getting fouled - but I’m sure we could find other clips of him making bizzaro decisions from that game if you’re unconvinced by that one.
Yeah, this isn’t about one play, it was the culmination of a series of plays for a guy who almost literally stopped shooting during an entire series. On the play itself, he had an easy layup and possible and-1 situation if he had just gone up with it after regaining control. The pass itself wasn’t bad but it would have required a tough finish for Thybulle splitting defenders. End of the day, this play reinforced a narrative that continues to be pretty spot on based on what we’ve seen subsequent to that one play.
 

lars10

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Yea, I never quite got the complete disdain for Simmons for not dunking/shooting this. He lost control of the ball, regained, and started to go up and saw someone meeting him at the rim. It turned out to be Trae Young, so he shouldn't have passed it off, but the pass itself looked like it initially was going to result in a dunk for Thybulle
Wasn’t it more that he was afraid to shoot most of the series and that was the culmination of it?

Edit: what bsf said
 

Bleedred

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It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
No, that's not what happens here. The "help defender" wasn't anywhere close to challenging the bigger, closer to the rim, Simmons. If Simmons goes up to dunk that ball, I am 99.99% certain that that "help defender" would have peeled off and allowed the dunk. Moreover, the teammate that he passed it to was in a much worse position and challenged by 2 defenders to prevent his dunk. Finally, if Simmons were passing it out to a teammate at the 3 point line, then I would agree he'd be deserving of less scorn, but Simmons got inside and could have dunked uncontested. Instead, because his head was not right, he passed up a simple dunk for a much harder 2 point try by his teammate. As it was the culmination of a god awful playoff series where Simmons shrank from the pressure, the criticism was well deserved.
 

tbb345

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This one play has taken on a life of its own. It’s one play and a play where he’s giving up the ball for his teammate to dunk when he sees the help defender about to challenge him at the rim. It really is ridiculous that this is a thing when we’ve seen several Celtics pass up layups at the rim to kick out for a 3 in these playoffs. Smart and Horford at least.
I normally stick up for Simmons amongst the hot takes but I can’t agree with this.


The help defender was Trae Young, who’s a complete turnstile and wouldn’t have wanted any part of challenging Simmons. Even if he did, Simmons is so much bigger than him it wouldn’t have mattered.

The teammate he passed it to was Thybulle, who was in a much worse position to complete a dunk and another incredibly poor FT shooter.

Personally I think Simmons panicked when he saw a body, not realizing it was Trae Young, thought he was going to get hacked and he didn’t want any part of taking free throw shots
 

reggiecleveland

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No, that's not what happens here. The "help defender" wasn't anywhere close to challenging the bigger, closer to the rim, Simmons. If Simmons goes up to dunk that ball, I am 99.99% certain that that "help defender" would have peeled off and allowed the dunk. Moreover, the teammate that he passed it to was in a much worse position and challenged by 2 defenders to prevent his dunk. Finally, if Simmons were passing it out to a teammate at the 3 point line, then I would agree he'd be deserving of less scorn, but Simmons got inside and could have dunked uncontested. Instead, because his head was not right, he passed up a simple dunk for a much harder 2 point try by his teammate. As it was the culmination of a god awful playoff series where Simmons shrank from the pressure, the criticism was well deserved.
He should have blasted that. Over and over you see guys lose confidence in their shot, then have a cathartic dunk. Tatum, Brown do it often. That play by Simmons cannot be defended as a basketball play. That is the play of a defeated guy. You have to pull him. It is simply awful. Now guys get rattled and make mistakes, horrible mistakes. But, in the context of that game, and his career since it seems like a metaphor or symbolic play. He will almost get back on the court...nope. I pity the guy and hope he gets to a place he can play. If he can't or doesn't want to play, he should negotiate a buy-out and go be happy somewhere.
 

Bleedred

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He should have blasted that. Over and over you see guys lose confidence in their shot, then have a cathartic dunk. Tatum, Brown do it often. That play by Simmons cannot be defended as a basketball play. That is the play of a defeated guy. You have to pull him. It is simply awful. Now guys get rattled and make mistakes, horrible mistakes. But, in the context of that game, and his career since it seems like a metaphor or symbolic play. He will almost get back on the court...nope. I pity the guy and hope he gets to a place he can play. If he can't or doesn't want to play, he should negotiate a buy-out and go be happy somewhere.
Said more sharply, but I agree 100%
 

lexrageorge

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I normally stick up for Simmons amongst the hot takes but I can’t agree with this.


The help defender was Trae Young, who’s a complete turnstile and wouldn’t have wanted any part of challenging Simmons. Even if he did, Simmons is so much bigger than him it wouldn’t have mattered.

The teammate he passed it to was Thybulle, who was in a much worse position to complete a dunk and another incredibly poor FT shooter.

Personally I think Simmons panicked when he saw a body, not realizing it was Trae Young, thought he was going to get hacked and he didn’t want any part of taking free throw shots
Thybulle looked surprise he got the ball and as a result was a bit late to react to the basket.

Agree that if that passed dunk was the only bad play Simmons made that game, few would care. I'm sure if we could ask LeBron "did you ever make a pass and realize later on that you passed up a sure 2 points, and say, 'what the hell was I thinking'?", he would probably laugh and rattle off a couple examples. But that play was a symptom of a much larger issue going on with Simmons during that playoff series.
 

Euclis20

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He was terrified he was going to get fouled (he was 15-45 from the line in this series). I don't know if in the moment he thought that Young or anyone would actually be able to block his layup (obviously one of the worst and smallest defenders in the league couldn't have done anything), but I do know that he was afraid to shoot at all late in those games, and he was terrified that he'd be fouled. The irony being, there's no way Young would've bothered fouling him there because it would have been an easy and1.

Here are his FGAs in the 4th quarters of that 7 game series that his team lost:

1. 2-2
2. 0-0
3. 1-1
4. 0-0
5. 0-0
6. 0-0
7. 0-0

1 shot attempt in the final 6 4th quarters. That is some truly shameful shit. The pass off the dunk in game 7 could be shrugged off as just a bad [terrible] decision in the moment, if it wasn't the culmination of what turned out to be the end of Simmons' career in Philly.

*edit - my favorite moment from that play is Embiid's reaction right after the whistle was blown. He knew exactly what happened, the same as the rest of us.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I normally stick up for Simmons amongst the hot takes but I can’t agree with this.


The help defender was Trae Young, who’s a complete turnstile and wouldn’t have wanted any part of challenging Simmons. Even if he did, Simmons is so much bigger than him it wouldn’t have mattered.

The teammate he passed it to was Thybulle, who was in a much worse position to complete a dunk and another incredibly poor FT shooter.

Personally I think Simmons panicked when he saw a body, not realizing it was Trae Young, thought he was going to get hacked and he didn’t want any part of taking free throw shots
My point it is was one play that is made over and over in this league. Horford passed up an even wider open layup to pass out for a Marcus Smart 3. This play will never be talked about by anyone. Many probably didn’t even notice it.

I’m not sure I’ve event seen one playoff series have such a profound effect on a player and his legacy. He was having another All-Star season and had a couple real good playoff games in the series prior. It’s so bizarre to me.
 

ManicCompression

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My point it is was one play that is made over and over in this league.
Strange to me that you search for context in nearly everything but ignore it in this one instance. Unlike every other situation that you're trying to make this analogous to, Ben Simmons had a history of completely disappearing in the playoffs, becoming WORSE as a free throw shooter, getting targeted as a FT shooter (Atlanta's strategy was hacking him), and generally making zero effort to even feign that he'd improve his scoring from beyond the paint.

ALSO this particular play was in the last seconds of a game 7. He was not passing it to a superior offensive player who had a better look. He was passing it to Thybulle, who's even more of a zero than Simmons, and who had to contort himself into a weird layup after receiving the pass.

It's not just the one play. It's that the one play was a metaphor for Simmons' entire career. It's not like he's an RB who fumbled in a big moment but is otherwise reliable. He's an RB who fumbled in a big moment after fumbling more than anyone in the league for since his rookie year.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Strange to me that you search for context in nearly everything but ignore it in this one instance. Unlike every other situation that you're trying to make this analogous to, Ben Simmons had a history of completely disappearing in the playoffs, becoming WORSE as a free throw shooter, getting targeted as a FT shooter (Atlanta's strategy was hacking him), and generally making zero effort to even feign that he'd improve his scoring from beyond the paint.

ALSO this particular play was in the last seconds of a game 7. He was not passing it to a superior offensive player who had a better look. He was passing it to Thybulle, who's even more of a zero than Simmons, and who had to contort himself into a weird layup after receiving the pass.

It's not just the one play. It's that the one play was a metaphor for Simmons' entire career. It's not like he's an RB who fumbled in a big moment but is otherwise reliable. He's an RB who fumbled in a big moment after fumbling more than anyone in the league for since his rookie year.
Where was he completely disappearing? No doubt there were consistency issues which happens all the time in the playoffs (see: Tatum, Jayson) when stars lay eggs. Simmons was the best player on the floor for most of the previous series and had a great game early in the Hawks series. The problem is everyone was so concerned about what he can’t do, shoot from the perimeter, and not on what he was doing. With so much of his value being on the defensive end it’s easy to look at his one glaring weakness.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is that was this was? Wasn’t this Game 7 at home?

They lose Game 5 at home and Simmons makes 2-4 FG and 4-14 FT in 38+ minutes. In Game 7 he again makes 2-4 FG but only 1-2 FT in 35+ minutes because he is terrified to get fouled. Which in no small part contributed to the final exit from the playoffs for Philly. I think that’s what this is - him not wanting to risk getting fouled - but I’m sure we could find other clips of him making bizzaro decisions from that game if you’re unconvinced by that one.
You realize all 14 FTs in game 5 came from intentional fouls right? They had nothing to do with him being afraid.

Simmons in game 7 scored 5 points on 4 shots, he also had 8 rebounds 13 assists and only 2 Turnovers, he also played good D.

A much bigger reason they lost is because....
1. Hill and Maxey off the bench played 35 minutes, and put up.... 5 points, 2 rebounds, 3 AST and 3 turnovers
2. Embiid turned the ball over 8 times while not having a great offensive game... 31 is pretty decent, but not dominant.
3. As in every game for the whole playoffs.... their offense was TERRIBLE when Simmons was on the bench.
 

snowmanny

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You realize all 14 FTs in game 5 came from intentional fouls right? They had nothing to do with him being afraid
Yeah I am surmising that since he was 4-14 FT in Game 5 he was therefore trying to avoid having to take more free throws in Game 7. Maybe it was a smart move, except I think he could have dunked that one. Edit: Also surmising the FT collapse is psychological
 

ManicCompression

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Where was he completely disappearing? No doubt there were consistency issues which happens all the time in the playoffs (see: Tatum, Jayson) when stars lay eggs. Simmons was the best player on the floor for most of the previous series and had a great game early in the Hawks series. The problem is everyone was so concerned about what he can’t do, shoot from the perimeter, and not on what he was doing. With so much of his value being on the defensive end it’s easy to look at his one glaring weakness.
You're talking about his weakness like it's comparable to Jaylen being not great at off-ball D. It's not like Simmons is bad at a certain skill - he has a total absence of a skill. He doesn't shoot, at all, from outside the paint - not just from three - which makes him kind of predictable in the half-court (and in the playoffs, half-court efficiency is significantly more important because pace/transition scoring goes down). This is not an issue if you're Robert Williams, it is an issue when you're the star of your team and requiring your front office to move mountains and earth to get the exact recipe around you to make you effective.

Simmons being great against the 34-38 Wizards in the first round is not a super compelling argument. No one denies that he's great at feasting on inferior competition, but he becomes a liability whenever the opponent is actually good. That's an issue in the playoffs when teams get progressively better as you go along.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You're talking about his weakness like it's comparable to Jaylen being not great at off-ball D. It's not like Simmons is bad at a certain skill - he has a total absence of a skill. He doesn't shoot, at all, from outside the paint - not just from three - which makes him kind of predictable in the half-court (and in the playoffs, half-court efficiency is significantly more important because pace/transition scoring goes down). This is not an issue if you're Robert Williams, it is an issue when you're the star of your team and requiring your front office to move mountains and earth to get the exact recipe around you to make you effective.
Since he wasn’t the star of his team nor one of its top two offensive option are you saying it wasn’t an issue? His role wasn’t that of Jaylen. Jaylen is a shooter/scorer…..Simmons was their facilitator and premier defender. Why doesn’t Draymond get this type of criticism?
 

ManicCompression

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Since he wasn’t the star of his team nor one of its top two offensive option are you saying it wasn’t an issue? His role wasn’t that of Jaylen. Jaylen is a shooter/scorer…..Simmons was their facilitator and premier defender. Why doesn’t Draymond get this type of criticism?
1. Draymond was an effective shooter on the best warriors teams. The whole reason the death lineup worked was that he could defend across the spectrum and be credible from the outside
2. People are starting to criticize Draymond for being a zero on offense because he's gotten progressively worse there. I did in the playoff game thread. And if it is a problem for Draymond to be a non-shooter now, why is not a problem for Simmons to be a non-shooter his whole career?
3. I'm not comparing Simmons to Jaylen. I'm pointing out that Simmons doesn't have a normal player's weakness. It's not even a weakness because it's totally non-existent from his game
4. If you think that Simmons should be judged as a a better version of defensive specialists like Jarred Vanderbilt rather than a star, well... that's the issue. He's a max player who was drafted 1 overall and he requires massive compromise in the way a team is built. Of course he should be judged like stars who should be expected to carry a team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's a max player who was drafted 1 overall and he requires massive compromise in the way a team is built. Of course he should be judged like stars who should be expected to carry a team.
Herein lies the problem. There are many max players who aren’t asked to carry their teams. Anyone who expects Ben Simmons to carry his team offensively is setting themselves up for criticizing his game since that’s not what he does. Even without being a top tier scorer he was always a Top 10-25 player in the league depending who you ask. Who knows what he’ll be once he returns after all this. I certainly have no idea.
 

lars10

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My point it is was one play that is made over and over in this league. Horford passed up an even wider open layup to pass out for a Marcus Smart 3. This play will never be talked about by anyone. Many probably didn’t even notice it.

I’m not sure I’ve event seen one playoff series have such a profound effect on a player and his legacy. He was having another All-Star season and had a couple real good playoff games in the series prior. It’s so bizarre to me.
Yeah but it has context and the other passes you’re talking about happen under completely different circumstances.. and aren’t remotely the same.

edit: a pass out to a three point shooter is completely different than one to a person standing right next to you who has a similar or worse angle
 

ManicCompression

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Name another player on this list who isn't expected to be a top contributor OR isn't savagely critiqued for not meeting expectations: http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries

Why shouldn't Simmons be criticized for not improving at all as a player? Or for being massively overpaid? How is he different from other limited max players like Kristaps or Tobias Harris? Should we also not focus on what they don't do well and only talk about the stuff they're good at? Like Simmons is a perfectly fine 4th or 5th best player on a championship team who should be making $15-$18 million a year. He's not, nor as he ever been a top 25 player in my book... because as you yourself state, he can't be a contending team's best player.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Simmons took 3 TOTAL shots in the 4th quarter in the 7 game Hawks series. The help defender is barely challenging, in fact he readily steps out of the way to avoid being put on a poster, even though Simmons is passing it. You have to misrepresent the play and the context to make your argument that it's been blown out of proportion.
 

Jimbodandy

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Herein lies the problem. There are many max players who aren’t asked to carry their teams. Anyone who expects Ben Simmons to carry his team offensively is setting themselves up for criticizing his game since that’s not what he does. Even without being a top tier scorer he was always a Top 10-25 player in the league depending who you ask. Who knows what he’ll be once he returns after all this. I certainly have no idea.
If he returns, if.

The fact that I can type that and not have it be a completely crazy statement says something about that one insignificant play that you're talking about.

Probably more likely that he returns than not, and I'm pulling for him. But his psyche may not be equipped for the highest levels of professional basketball.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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If he returns, if.

The fact that I can type that and not have it be a completely crazy statement says something about that one insignificant play that you're talking about.

Probably more likely that he returns than not, and I'm pulling for him. But his psyche may not be equipped for the highest levels of professional basketball.
Agreed. The chances of Ben having a Larry Sanders future is greater than zero. It’s just crazy imo to have hammered any kid his age the way Simmons has been hammered to lay some playoff eggs. You are expected to lay playoff eggs in your young 20’s.
 

Jimbodandy

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Jan 31, 2006
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Agreed. The chances of Ben having a Larry Sanders future is greater than zero. It’s just crazy imo to have hammered any kid his age the way Simmons has been hammered to lay some playoff eggs. You are expected to lay playoff eggs in your young 20’s.
We have seen longer roads to redemption than his for sure. He's still young and could very well thrive in a good environment. And it's fair to wonder about his environment when his star teammate and HOF coach threw him under the bus, drove over him, and then backed it up to make sure that he was dead. Somewhere there may be a "Ben whisperer" that snaps the kid out of it.

I wouldn't trade anything good for him though.
 

Bleedred

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Feb 21, 2001
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My point it is was one play that is made over and over in this league. Horford passed up an even wider open layup to pass out for a Marcus Smart 3. This play will never be talked about by anyone. Many probably didn’t even notice it.
Your point is wrong. The "one play" is a microcosm of what bedeviled simmons that series. This thread is replete with those examples. It's ok to revise your comment and say "yeah, maybe you guys are right."
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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Your point is wrong. The "one play" is a microcosm of what bedeviled simmons that series. This thread is replete with those examples. It's ok to revise your comment and say "yeah, maybe you guys are right."
Right that he had a real bad series? Wtf we all freakin know this! Imagine having a bad week at work as your boss and his VP go on television telling the world how much you suck. Name another player at his age….at ANY age….who has been thrown under the bus by so many people for having a bad playoff series?