Kyrie is hurt and we have schadenfreude

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
31,264
Hingham, MA
“I think it was just really heavy emotionally this season,” Irving said “We all felt it. I felt like I was letting the team down at a point where I wasn’t able to play. We were trying to exercise every option for me to play, but I never wanted it to just be about me. And I think it became a distraction at times. And as you see we just had some drastic changes.”
There was a simple solution here, involving a needle.

Also, this is delicious

Irving is being genuine here, and he's giving what he believes to be a thoughtful answer. He always believes that. That doesn't make listening to him any less exhausting. If you've tuned him out by now, you're not alone. It's not news that star players have at least some kind of voice in their front offices' decision-making processes these days, but for Irving to state it like this, that "managing this franchise" alongside, you know, the actual managers is now a part of his day to day, well, I'd say it's ridiculous, but it's also Kyrie. Ridiculous comes with the territory. And it certainly doesn't seem to be something that will change anytime soon given Irving's comments on agreeing to a new deal with the Nets.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kyrie-irving-says-hell-re-sign-with-nets-and-managing-this-franchise-is-now-apparently-part-of-his-job-too/
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
9,215
Toscana via Kyiv
I could see plenty of offers better than Westbrook out there for Simmons. You've got lots of peripheral or basement dwelling teams that could move various assets including draft picks for a crack at him (e.g. Portland, Orlando, etc.)
I was a huge Simmons guy prior to the recent weirdness, but if I'm a cellar dweller, I'd probably rather make those picks myself at this point.

Trading for a floor raiser can help the GM of a bad team keep his job, but trading for a guy who may never want to go on the floor again is very risky from a job security standpoint.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
18,934
Is he actually a top-10 player offensively? He doesn't create for his teammates once he draws attention nearly as well as you'd want. He's obviously really really good on that end, but I've started to think that we overrate him due to Sick Handlez.

We've now seen Kyrie, on good teams, be a complete non-factor in 2 of the last 3 postseasons he's been in.
I would say he certainly not a Top 10 offensive player; I've always thought he was overrated, even when coming out of the draft. He is decisively a B-level star, but is often covered and treated like a legitimate franchise superstar. Not even factoring defense, he isn't as good as Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, LeBron, Steph, Luka, Tatum, Harden or Trae. I don't think he is as good as Dame (he's more efficient, but Dame is more explosive and way more reliable) and then you still have Booker, CP3, DeRozan, KAT, Davis, etc. We are now six years removed from his excellent Finals performance in 2016.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,448
He's due 110m over the next 3 years. No one is trading for that, .1% chance he's walking away from that.
I mean we always say that and unless a player is completely broken down (e.g. Kevin Love) someone always ends up doing so. And there are a lot of backwaters that would take a shot at getting Simmons back to form even if he is overpaid.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,448
I was a huge Simmons guy prior to the recent weirdness, but if I'm a cellar dweller, I'd probably rather make those picks myself at this point.

Trading for a floor raiser can help the GM of a bad team keep his job, but trading for a guy who may never want to go on the floor again is very risky from a job security standpoint.
The 2022 draft is a roleplayer draft. If you’re Cleveland Simmons has more potential upside than a mid first this year (and they were rumored to have made an offer to Philly for him last year). Or the Thunder who already have about 12 more draft picks than it’s actually possible to use. Because they’re actually rumored to be looking at multiple draft & stashes this year because they can’t accommodate four new developmental projects. There are going to be options.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
9,142
So this graphic showed up during Stephen A’s rant on Kyrie this morning.

Kyrie Irving’s Nets career. (Including playoffs)
116 games played
118 games missed.

View: https://youtu.be/Q9Mglp-rEBc
Edit- fixed formatting
Bill Simmons posted this one as well:
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/1518952222100361216

Kyrie in the playoffs since he left LeBron…

—22-5-5 / 43-35-93% / 37.5 MPG
—Played 22 games, missed 22
—2-3 in playoff series

Regular season: missed 164 games last 5 years

Career: 1 2nd team All-NBA, 2 3rd team All NBA.

He’s 30

Would should the Nets offer him?
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
22,843
Newton
It’s interesting to look back at his Boston career and wonder what might’ve happened had he not gotten injured. I know Danny takes a lot of guff for trading for Kyrie. But I actually wonder whether the thinking there was that Danny plus Brad in his system would get the best out of Kyrie, and that they would see him mature.

And, for the first several months that is what it looked like we got out of Kyrie. He was a terrific offensive player that season, seemed to improve his defensive effort and, dare I say, show some leadership. It was only when he got injured at the end of the season and watched the team flourish in his absence with a bunch of young and unproven guys that it seemed his ego got in the way and he reverted to being the guy he always was.

Kyrie has been that guy ever since. And it’s worse now because he’s older and there’s definitively no chance of him changing. But for a brief moment it did seem like maybe he would grow up.
 

BlackJack

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 11, 2007
3,083
There was a simple solution here, involving a needle.
Maybe this is a 'duh' thing but, it seems like Kyrie is taking his vaccine refusal as an immutable fact. Like that not being able to play home games was completely out of his hands.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
47,990
NBA Radio today said Kyrie and KD have played together in 58 of 247 scheduled Nets games since joining the team.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
18,934
It’s interesting to look back at his Boston career and wonder what might’ve happened had he not gotten injured. I know Danny takes a lot of guff for trading for Kyrie. But I actually wonder whether the thinking there was that Danny plus Brad in his system would get the best out of Kyrie, and that they would see him mature.

And, for the first several months that is what it looked like we got out of Kyrie. He was a terrific offensive player that season, seemed to improve his defensive effort and, dare I say, show some leadership. It was only when he got injured at the end of the season and watched the team flourish in his absence with a bunch of young and unproven guys that it seemed his ego got in the way and he reverted to being the guy he always was.

Kyrie has been that guy ever since. And it’s worse now because he’s older and there’s definitively no chance of him changing. But for a brief moment it did seem like maybe he would grow up.
The trade for Kyrie was a smart move because it also allowed them to get away from the IT situation, which would have gotten really ugly when the Celtics didn't offer him the extension + his various hip issues. I was not a huge fan of Kyrie at the time because the red flags were there (the nature of wanting to be traded from what should be an ideal situation where you are consistently in the Finals and surrounded by great talent + the report that he didn't talk to his teammates for two weeks during the playoffs) but it was a worthy gamble because it wasn't clear just how much of a flake he was, or how WEIRD the guy was.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
6,461
Kyrie didn't work out for the Cs, but every GM ever makes that trade 100 times out of 100.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
5,134
Imaginationland
The trade for Kyrie was a smart move because it also allowed them to get away from the IT situation, which would have gotten really ugly when the Celtics didn't offer him the extension + his various hip issues. I was not a huge fan of Kyrie at the time because the red flags were there (the nature of wanting to be traded from what should be an ideal situation where you are consistently in the Finals and surrounded by great talent + the report that he didn't talk to his teammates for two weeks during the playoffs) but it was a worthy gamble because it wasn't clear just how much of a flake he was, or how WEIRD the guy was.
The trade was certainly a worthy gamble and obviously we don't miss IT, but that draft pick...it wasn't top 3 like the two prior years, but the 8th pick in the 2018 draft would've been nice to have. Sexton, Mikal Bridges, SGA, Miles Bridges, and Porter Jr were all taken between 8 and 14. That's a lot of VERY interesting talent.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
7,703
around the way
I would say he certainly not a Top 10 offensive player; I've always thought he was overrated, even when coming out of the draft. He is decisively a B-level star, but is often covered and treated like a legitimate franchise superstar. Not even factoring defense, he isn't as good as Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, Durant, LeBron, Steph, Luka, Tatum, Harden or Trae. I don't think he is as good as Dame (he's more efficient, but Dame is more explosive and way more reliable) and then you still have Booker, CP3, DeRozan, KAT, Davis, etc. We are now six years removed from his excellent Finals performance in 2016.
The impact numbers say that he is offensively a top 10 player, or at least in the ballpark. Many of the metrics back this up, but not all (they are kinda all over the place).

Now, to your and love's posts, if I had 15 picks to start an expansion team, Kyrie would not be under consideration. But that's partly because he's an insufferable fool and chemistry problem, and partly because I'm biased against little guys who don't play defense.

If you look at what he brings to the table offensively, the impact metrics say what they say. That doesn't mean that they tell the whole picture.

Edit: when I say "chemistry problem", I don't mean "unpopular among teammates". He's just a tiresome scandal head, and guys consume too much time talking about him. That stuff isn't necessarily the most important crap in the world, but it's a factor.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,035
Kyrie didn't work out for the Cs, but every GM ever makes that trade 100 times out of 100.
Exactly. The Celtics did not really give up much of value; unclear if Ainge would have drafted Sexton or if he would have worked out here. That team would have looked a lot different with a healthy Hayward.

The Nets would have been really good had Harden stayed engaged and been willing to play w/ KD and Kyrie. But Harden is just as strange as Kyrie sometimes. As for Kyrie, he's not going to magically get better or healthier at the age of 30. Good luck to whomever signs him to his next contract.
 

BringBackMo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
612
It’s interesting to look back at his Boston career and wonder what might’ve happened had he not gotten injured. I know Danny takes a lot of guff for trading for Kyrie. But I actually wonder whether the thinking there was that Danny plus Brad in his system would get the best out of Kyrie, and that they would see him mature.

And, for the first several months that is what it looked like we got out of Kyrie. He was a terrific offensive player that season, seemed to improve his defensive effort and, dare I say, show some leadership. It was only when he got injured at the end of the season and watched the team flourish in his absence with a bunch of young and unproven guys that it seemed his ego got in the way and he reverted to being the guy he always was.

Kyrie has been that guy ever since. And it’s worse now because he’s older and there’s definitively no chance of him changing. But for a brief moment it did seem like maybe he would grow up.
This is a good post and something interesting to think about. The answer is unknowable, of course, but in the end I have come to believe that it was always going to be something with Kyrie. This appears to be who he is. Maybe he never gets injured and plays hard throughout the playoffs that year, but eventually there was going to be an injury, a perceived slight, a pandemic, or something else to bring out the worst in his behavior. It happened in Cleveland, it happened here, it's happened in Brooklyn. Like most of us, I prefer not to psychoanalyze people from afar, but his behavior is so destructive that it, frankly, invites...psychoanalysis from afar. He does exhibit signs of a personality disorder, in my non-expert opinion. There are different ways to establish your brilliance and how essential you are to an organization's success. One is to participate fully and lead that organization to success. Another is to withhold and and demonstrate that the organization fails without you. When you want to prove that success without you is impossible, you're eventually going to find a way to withhold.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
6,461
Exactly. The Celtics did not really give up much of value; unclear if Ainge would have drafted Sexton or if he would have worked out here. That team would have looked a lot different with a healthy Hayward.

The Nets would have been really good had Harden stayed engaged and been willing to play w/ KD and Kyrie. But Harden is just as strange as Kyrie sometimes. As for Kyrie, he's not going to magically get better or healthier at the age of 30. Good luck to whomever signs him to his next contract.
Brooklyn will give him the max. I get the risks involved, but KD is 33 -- they have no alternative other than GFIN.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
27,118
Brooklyn will give him the max. I get the risks involved, but KD is 33 -- they have no alternative other than GFIN.
Also they have no cap space either way and they owe a ton of picks, they have no way to add talent. Every team in the league in that situation signs Kyrie to a full max.... then maybe shops him
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
9,005
Boston, MA
Might the Nets be willing to blow it up? I mean trade all 3 of KD, Kyrie and Simmons and completely retool the franchise with what would no doubt be some very talented new pieces and let Nash and the GMs build a new team in their desired image. I assume the answer is no, as they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in their top 3 (or are about to) and blowing it up isn't what anyone in BKLYN is imagining, but consider their top 3:

- Kyrie's non-dependability is a massive mark against him, he's 30 years old, historically injury prone, a massive distraction, a below average defender and a diminishing offensive player (although still great). Do you give him $200MM?
-Simmons non-dependability is a massive mark against him. What he suffered in Philly could really have permanently altered if not destroyed his confidence and he may never be the same player again. Add to that apparent serious injury problems, a non-existent offensive game if he cannot get to the basket and real questions about his general mental health.
-KD. Still great. I think the Celtics, collectively, shocked him with how effective they defended him. He couldn't simply rise up over his defenders when things got tough, and the physicality of Tatum (who is almost KD's equal now as a 2 way player) plus Brown, Grant, Al, Marcus, White, Theis, Rob, made KD work every second of every quarter of every game in this series. One might say he's the guy you keep, because he's still the best player in the world (or 2nd, next to Giannis), but according to reports, he has demanded that Kyrie be on this team. If so, keeping KD and trading Kyrie may not be an option, in which instance you trade them all?

I know it sounds insane, but is it really (salary cap complications aside)?
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
31,264
Hingham, MA
For those of us that don’t follow the NBA quite as closely, what is it exactly that happened to Simmons in Philly that would permanently kill his confidence? By the box scores he played fine in last years’s playoffs?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
26,758
It’s interesting to look back at his Boston career and wonder what might’ve happened had he not gotten injured. I know Danny takes a lot of guff for trading for Kyrie. But I actually wonder whether the thinking there was that Danny plus Brad in his system would get the best out of Kyrie, and that they would see him mature.

And, for the first several months that is what it looked like we got out of Kyrie. He was a terrific offensive player that season, seemed to improve his defensive effort and, dare I say, show some leadership. It was only when he got injured at the end of the season and watched the team flourish in his absence with a bunch of young and unproven guys that it seemed his ego got in the way and he reverted to being the guy he always was.

Kyrie has been that guy ever since. And it’s worse now because he’s older and there’s definitively no chance of him changing. But for a brief moment it did seem like maybe he would grow up.
If KI and GH had stayed healthy, that team absolutely would have gone to the Finals and they for one thought they could beat GSW so it would have been an All-time matchup. That team looked fantastic in the pre-season; I mean kind of like they look now but b

And maybe if KI gets some success on his own, he doesn't start pining for NYC.

Who knows? But I know not being able to watch that team will be my second biggest Celtic regret (behind only Len Bias).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
26,758
Yikes. Not even enough confidence to dunk?!
He shot 33.8% from the FT line on 71 attempts which was among the worst ever performance in NBA history. In the 7 games against ATL, he had 3 total FGAs (yes, three in 7 games and he made them all).

And after the loss, his coach didn't just throw him under the bus, Doc basically glued Simmons to a road and drove back and forth over him. Also Embiid also more or less blamed the loss on him.

But other than that, Simmons was fine.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/6/21/22543097/ben-simmons-76ers-vs-hawks-game-7-nba-playoffs-2021
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
6,461
Might the Nets be willing to blow it up? I mean trade all 3 of KD, Kyrie and Simmons and completely retool the franchise with what would no doubt be some very talented new pieces and let Nash and the GMs build a new team in their desired image. I assume the answer is no, as they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in their top 3 (or are about to) and blowing it up isn't what anyone in BKLYN is imagining, but consider their top 3:

- Kyrie's non-dependability is a massive mark against him, he's 30 years old, historically injury prone, a massive distraction, a below average defender and a diminishing offensive player (although still great). Do you give him $200MM?
-Simmons non-dependability is a massive mark against him. What he suffered in Philly could really have permanently altered if not destroyed his confidence and he may never be the same player again. Add to that apparent serious injury problems, a non-existent offensive game if he cannot get to the basket and real questions about his general mental health.
-KD. Still great. I think the Celtics, collectively, shocked him with how effective they defended him. He couldn't simply rise up over his defenders when things got tough, and the physicality of Tatum (who is almost KD's equal now as a 2 way player) plus Brown, Grant, Al, Marcus, White, Theis, Rob, made KD work every second of every quarter of every game in this series. One might say he's the guy you keep, because he's still the best player in the world (or 2nd, next to Giannis), but according to reports, he has demanded that Kyrie be on this team. If so, keeping KD and trading Kyrie may not be an option, in which instance you trade them all?

I know it sounds insane, but is it really (salary cap complications aside)?
They could get a good return for KD, but Kyrie is a FA that a lot of teams will want to stay away from, and who will give up anything of value for Simmons at this point?
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
9,005
Boston, MA
The vibe I get from Simmons is that he's completely checked out. This is superficial, I know, but seeing him on the bench, in his designer clothes and "look how cool I am" sunglasses, as his $100s of millions of dollars in salary are collected and he sits out an entire season and his team is swept in the first round has to rub even the Brooklyn folks the wrong way, no?
 
Mar 26, 2014
64
Might the Nets be willing to blow it up?
After this year, when the Rockets get their pick, the Nets still have 5 years of either giving away their first round pick ('24 & '26) or Houston having swap rights ('23, '25, & '27). I just don't see them blowing it up when they likely don't benefit from lottery luck for 5 more years.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
9,005
Boston, MA
They could get a good return for KD, but Kyrie is a FA that a lot of teams will want to stay away from, and who will give up anything of value for Simmons at this point?
KD alone would be a ridiculous haul.
Kyrie: good point. Sign and trade?
Simmons: I wouldn't take a chance on Simmons, but as noted above, there are many many GMs that would, given his age and potential to come back. I think a backwater franchise (OKC, Orlando, Sacramento, others) would be the better fit for him confidence wise, away from the bright lights.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
9,005
Boston, MA
After this year, when the Rockets get their pick, the Nets still have 5 years of either giving away their first round pick ('24 & '26) or Houston having swap rights ('23, '25, & '27). I just don't see them blowing it up when they likely don't benefit from lottery luck for 5 more years.
They would, presumably, receive major draft assets if they trade all of the big 3
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
37,370
Might be my favorite stat so far from the series:

Steve Nash had 4 seasons with fewer FT misses than Claxton last night.

96-97, 65 games played, 9 missed FTs.

98-99, 40 games played, 8 missed FTs.

2012-13, 50 games played, 9 missed FTs

2013-2014, 15 games played, 2 missed FTs
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,448
The Nets would have been really good had Harden stayed engaged and been willing to play w/ KD and Kyrie. But Harden is just as strange as Kyrie sometimes. As for Kyrie, he's not going to magically get better or healthier at the age of 30. Good luck to whomever signs him to his next contract.
Harden was willing to play with Durant and Irving. But guess who he wasn’t seeing on the court with him? Harden has a lot of hard miles on that body and he wanted to be in a situation where he could be more of a game manager and less of the entire offense. And in Brooklyn he went back to being the entire offense because Durant missed a third of the season and Irving almost all of it.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
6,461
KD alone would be a ridiculous haul.
Kyrie: good point. Sign and trade?
Simmons: I wouldn't take a chance on Simmons, but as noted above, there are many many GMs that would, given his age and potential to come back. I think a backwater franchise (OKC, Orlando, Sacramento, others) would be the better fit for him confidence wise, away from the bright lights.
Teams would take Simmons, but if all you are going to get is a couple of heavily protected 1st round picks, I think the play is to run it back and hope everything clicks.

I guess maybe you could get a couple of glue guys who would fit will with KD and Kyrie?
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
31,264
Hingham, MA
He shot 33.8% from the FT line on 71 attempts which was among the worst ever performance in NBA history. In the 7 games against ATL, he had 3 total FGAs (yes, three in 7 games and he made them all).

And after the loss, his coach didn't just throw him under the bus, Doc basically glued Simmons to a road and drove back and forth over him. Also Embiid also more or less blamed the loss on him.

But other than that, Simmons was fine.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/6/21/22543097/ben-simmons-76ers-vs-hawks-game-7-nba-playoffs-2021
Thanks for the stats and link!

Edit: it was 3 FGAs in the 4th quarter total FYI. 35 total attempts for the series in 7 games.
 
Last edited:

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,035
Harden was willing to play with Durant and Irving. But guess who he wasn’t seeing on the court with him? Harden has a lot of hard miles on that body and he wanted to be in a situation where he could be more of a game manager and less of the entire offense. And in Brooklyn he went back to being the entire offense because Durant missed a third of the season and Irving almost all of it.
Yeah, but....

It seemed obvious that Durant's injury was going to be short term. And given the realities of Omicron, court cases, general mood, etc., it wasn't hard to forsee the end of the mandate once the Yankees season was ready to get underway.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
18,934
KD alone would be a ridiculous haul.
Kyrie: good point. Sign and trade?
Simmons: I wouldn't take a chance on Simmons, but as noted above, there are many many GMs that would, given his age and potential to come back. I think a backwater franchise (OKC, Orlando, Sacramento, others) would be the better fit for him confidence wise, away from the bright lights.
I see this sentiment a lot, and I feel like it is a bit narrow-minded to think that if Simmons goes and plays in some rebuilding small-market team, it will be much easier for him to play. I don't think it's quite that simple; sure he wouldn't be in the playoffs or playing for a big market team; but players in small markets still get criticized, and in the way the league is followed/covered today, there are still going to be plenty of memes and GIFs ragging on him if he still refuses to shoot, or bricks free throws, or does anything else Ben Simmons-y while there.

Simmons appears to have a really hard time with the strain of the expectations that come from being an NBA player, just in general. I don't think merely being on a less successful team would alleviate the things that seem to be a hurdle for him playing. People will still be ragging on him, guys will be talking shit to him, fouling him to make him shoot free throws, he will still have some crunch-time moments, etc.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,006
In the 8 seasons Kyrie didn't have Lebron on his team

team missed the playoffs 4 times
team went to the conference finals when he didn't play due to injury once
swept in the first round once
beat 4-1 in the second round once
beat 4-3 in the second round in a series he didn't play the final 3 games once

If Lebron never decided to go back home, this guy would be Bradley Beal.

Instead he's talked about as if he's on a much higher level.
 

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
4,824
02148
I wouldn’t touch Simmons on that contract unless he fires LeBron’s lackey and hires some real representation. He’s clearly being enabled by some atrocious advice from Klutch.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
17,768
Kyrie's four games:
42:08, 12-20 (.600), 39 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assists
40:21, 4-13 (.308), 10 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist
43:13, 6-17 (.353), 16 points, 3 rebounds, 9 assists
44:46, 6-13 (.462), 20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists
TOT: 28-63 (.444), 21.3 points, 5.3 rebounds, 5.3 assists

KD's four games:
41:01, 9-24 (.375), 23 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists
42:27, 4-17 (.235), 27 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists
45:54, 6-11 (.545), 16 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists
46:39, 13-31 (.419), 39 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists
TOT: 32-83 (.386), 26.3 points, 5.8 rebounds, 6.3 assists

Tatum's four games:
44:54, 9-18 (.500), 31 points, 4 rebounds, 8 assists
41:04, 5-16 (.313), 19 points, 6 rebounds, 10 assists
44:37, 13-29 (.448), 39 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assists
36:22, 9-16 (.563), 29 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists
TOT: 36-79 (.456), 29.5 points, 4.5 rebounds, 7.3 assists

Brown's four games:
39:44, 9-19 (474), 23 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists
39:20, 9-18 (.500), 22 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists
37:37, 9-16 (.563), 23 points, 4 rebounds, 5 assists
37:56, 9-20 (.450), 22 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists
TOT: 36-73 (.493), 22.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.3 assists

Durant + Irving: .411 FG, 23.8 points, 5.5 rebounds, 5.8 assists
Tatum + Brown: .473 FG, 26.0 points, 4.9 rebounds, 5.8 assists

Edge to Tatum and Brown. Enough of an edge to win four close games.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
17,768
In the 8 seasons Kyrie didn't have Lebron on his team

team missed the playoffs 4 times
team went to the conference finals when he didn't play due to injury once
swept in the first round once
beat 4-1 in the second round once
beat 4-3 in the second round in a series he didn't play the final 3 games once

If Lebron never decided to go back home, this guy would be Bradley Beal.

Instead he's talked about as if he's on a much higher level.
Yes but the one championship he does have, he was pretty huge.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,676
Portland, Maine
Might the Nets be willing to blow it up?
Others have pointed out the draft issues etc. but people are already talking about how the Nets are still going to be favorites next year to win it all. Kyrie, Durant, Simmons and Harris. You have about a two year window where - theoretically at least - you can't ask for a better opportunity.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
18,934
Others have pointed out the draft issues etc. but people are already talking about how the Nets are still going to be favorites next year to win it all. Kyrie, Durant, Simmons and Harris. You have about a two year window where - theoretically at least - you can't ask for a better opportunity.
The Bill Simmons/Russillo podcast mentioned this earlier this week, but they did point out how this might just be a sign of Durant wearing down and aging out of his status as the true ALPHA in the NBA (along with LeBron). If you look at his age, his minutes played, his injury history, it's pretty logical that he would be edging out of his prime and would be surpassed by a younger generation of stars. LeBron (and CP3) being great well into their late 30s may have thrown off the expected aging curve, and colored the public's expectations for how a player looks as they enter their mid-30s.

Looking at the landscape of these NBA playoffs; it's clearly a league being dominated by players in their 20s. The exception would be GS and maybe Miami, and both of those teams might have some injury concerns as the playoffs move on.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
26,758
Harden was willing to play with Durant and Irving. But guess who he wasn’t seeing on the court with him? Harden has a lot of hard miles on that body and he wanted to be in a situation where he could be more of a game manager and less of the entire offense. And in Brooklyn he went back to being the entire offense because Durant missed a third of the season and Irving almost all of it.
Agree that Harden was willing to play with KI at the beginning but from all reports, KI and Harden weren't getting along by the end. Remember the "Harden looked at Irving like he had 3 heads" when Irving burned sage in CLE?
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
6,461
Is all of this a moot point if there is no COVID, or if Kyrie was vaxed?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
26,758
I wouldn’t touch Simmons on that contract unless he fires LeBron’s lackey and hires some real representation. He’s clearly being enabled by some atrocious advice from Klutch.
I don't know if "enabled" is the correct word but if Simmons really does have mental health challenges, Klutch is probably not helping.

If Simmons really does have mental health issues, I hope he gets the help he needs - not just because he's trying to get salary back.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
2,676
Portland, Maine
The Bill Simmons/Russillo podcast mentioned this earlier this week, but they did point out how this might just be a sign of Durant wearing down and aging out of his status as the true ALPHA in the NBA (along with LeBron). If you look at his age, his minutes played, his injury history, it's pretty logical that he would be edging out of his prime and would be surpassed by a younger generation of stars. LeBron (and CP3) being great well into their late 30s may have thrown off the expected aging curve, and colored the public's expectations for how a player looks as they enter their mid-30s.

Looking at the landscape of these NBA playoffs; it's clearly a league being dominated by players in their 20s. The exception would be GS and maybe Miami, and both of those teams might have some injury concerns as the playoffs move on.
Oh I agree - I think the Nets are heading for their Pierce/Garnett era redux, where they will make the playoffs with their core for the next 3-4 years and maybe make the ECF is they get some better role players, but that's it. They don't have the tools to get good bench players and other teams are on the ascendant.

But with their draft picks gone and a fanbase that won't tolerate a rebuild, I think you have to roll the dice with a pretty good hand (and mix some gaming metaphors).