Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

[kazuneko]

Question: who is offering anything close to a max for Kyrie this offseason? And if there are teams interested, would Kyrie consider them. I know the assumption is that the Lakers would be interested but the most they could offer is $31 million ($9 mill less than the max) and that would require withdrawing qualifying offers to Rui, and Reaves, renouncing D’Lo entirely, turning down Beasley’s team option and waiving Reed and Bamba’s non-guaranteed deals. Are they really willing to do that for Kyrie? Would Kyrie even accept $9 mill less than the max? If not, would they package a max-extended D-lo to Dallas in sign-and-trade? Would Dallas even be interested? If LA isn't willing to do any of that who else extends an offer? Would Dallas offer the max? Hard to see why they would unless they fall into the sunk-cost fallacy of having to pay Kyrie since they gave up some assets to get him. If neither Dallas or LA are willing to do extend themselves, who does?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Question: who is offering anything close to a max for Kyrie this offseason? And if there are teams interested, would Kyrie consider them. I know the assumption is that the Lakers would be interested but the most they could off is $31 million ($9 mill less than the max) and that would require withdrawing qualifying offers to Rui, and Reaves, renouncing D’Lo entirely, turning down Beasley’s team option and waiving Reed and Bamba’s non-guaranteed deals. Are they really willing to do that for Kyrie? Would Kyrie even accept $9 mill less than the qualifying offer? If not, would they package a max-extended D-lo to Dallas in sign-and-trade? Would Dallas even be interested? If LA isn't willing to do any of that who else extends an offer? Would Dallas offer the max? Hard to see why they would unless they fall into the sunk-cost fallacy of having to pay Kyrie since they gave up some assets to get him. If neither Dallas or LA are willing to do extend themselves, who does?

We discussed this last year or earlier this year and I was saying the same thing but unless Luka makes it clear that he doesn’t want him there I can’t imagine the Mavs not paying him. That’s a bottom-5 team without him even with Doncic after giving up Finney-Smith and Dinwiddie in the trade. They are entering the danger zone of losing Luka real soon.

 

[kazuneko]

We discussed this last year or earlier this year and I was saying the same thing but unless Luka makes it clear that he doesn’t want him there I can’t imagine the Mavs not paying him. That’s a bottom-5 team without him even with Doncic after giving up Finney-Smith and Dinwiddie in the trade. They are entering the danger zone of losing Luka real soon.

And I guess Kyrie resigns there because there is literally no one else offering anything close to the same deal?
I mean, it's ridiculous. Everyone knows he has no interest in being in Dallas and is dead set on getting himself to LA.
Of course, if he really does - grudgingly - resign with Dallas it's almost guaranteed that he'll want out by midseason at the latest, right?
What a shit show. I think Dallas would actually be better off doing a sign-and-trade with the Lakers for D-Lo on a max contract - even though D-Lo on a max contract would be an abomination...

 

[lovegtm]

And I guess Kyrie resigns there because there is literally no one else offering anything close to the same deal?
I mean, it's ridiculous. Everyone knows he has no interest in being in Dallas and is dead set on getting himself to LA.
Of course, if he really does - grudgingly - resign with Dallas it's almost guaranteed that he'll want out by midseason at the latest, right?
What a shit show. I think Dallas would actually be better off doing a sign-and-trade with the Lakers for D-Lo on a max contract - even though D-Lo on a max contract would be an abomination...

Imagine turning Brunson, DFS, Dinwiddie, and a 1st into D-Lo in less than a year.....and that being the better outcome. What a franchise.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

And I guess Kyrie resigns there because there is literally no one else offering anything close to the same deal?
I mean, it's ridiculous. Everyone knows he has no interest in being in Dallas and is dead set on getting himself to LA.
Of course, if he really does - grudgingly - resign with Dallas it's almost guaranteed that he'll want out by midseason at the latest, right?
What a shit show. I think Dallas would actually be better off doing a sign-and-trade with the Lakers for D-Lo on a max contract - even though D-Lo on a max contract would be an abomination...

That scenario would be pretty awesome with D-Lo on a max as the Knicks roll into town with their All-NBA point guard.

Edit: Oooops, lovegtm had his alarm set before me.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

So I had way too much time on my hands and wanted to see if Kyrie was going to play Brooklyn this year (he isn't). This took me to the Mavs schedule page and the "game leaders" for every game...Holy shit...

I just took a look at Luka's games before Kyrie got there (36 games). And in those games, either he, Wood or Dinwiddle accounted for 105 of the 108 leading scorer/rebounder/assists on the team for the game.

Since the trade it has gotten a little more diverse (obviously), but a lot of it is simply Green taking Dinwiddle's stats.

 

[Fishy1]

Mavs did not need Kyrie to get better, they needed accountability on defense and uh, better defenders. Someone -anyone - who can disrupt ball movement or defend the rim would have been good. It's kind of enjoyable to watch him fail, I guess. I'd rather not think about the guy at all.

Not that the Demon is a bad defender on any given night, it's just that team is near the bottom of the barrel defense wise while having a borderline top five defense even without Kyrie.

I honestly wonder if cutting bait on Porzingis was like, actively a bad move for that team.

 

[chilidawg]

Are you referring to numbers or a sort of team chemistry? Dallas is really really bad when one or both of Kyrie or Doncic are off the floor with one of the leagues most efficient offenses when they are both on the floor. The Mavs primary issue, aside from having arguably the worst #3-15 of all playoff teams is their end of game execution. They have 8 losses by two or less possessions since the trade and are 9-13 despite their Pythag at 12-10. They lost 4 of the 5 games Kyrie didn’t play but that roster is simply pitiful with or without him.

And another 4th Q. loss tonight at Philly. I was actually rooting for Dallas in this one.

 

[kazuneko]

Are you referring to numbers or a sort of team chemistry? Dallas is really really bad when one or both of Kyrie or Doncic are off the floor with one of the leagues most efficient offenses when they are both on the floor. The Mavs primary issue, aside from having arguably the worst #3-15 of all playoff teams is their end of game execution. They have 8 losses by two or less possessions since the trade and are 9-13 despite their Pythag at 12-10. They lost 4 of the 5 games Kyrie didn’t play but that roster is simply pitiful with or without him.

Unfortunately for Dallas, this team -at least on the court - really needs Kyrie, which is why they will be tempted to give him a max, even if with him they aren't anything more than a borderline playoff team. But how will a "generational leader" like Kyrie feel about playing second fiddle to Luka on a team going nowhere in a place he never wanted to be in the first place?
This guy acted out on a stacked team in his hometown playing with his best friend, if he signs with Dallas he won't get through training camp without creating issues...

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

3 more years, $126 million to stay with Dallas

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-free-agency-2023-kyrie-irving-agrees-to-re-sign-with-dallas-mavericks-224709906.html

I am sure this is in the omnibus off season thread, but everyone doesn’t necessarily read the mega threads

 

[ElUno20]

And he got snippy with Simmons on twitter too.

 

[slamminsammya]

And he got snippy with Simmons on twitter too.View attachment 66748

I cannot stand this guy.

 

[Senator Donut]

I cannot stand this guy.

and Kyrie is pretty annoying too

 

[TripleOT]

And he got snippy with Simmons on twitter too.View attachment 66748

I do remember listening to a Bill Simmons podcast/suck off session with Kyrie when the Sage of Boston was a Celtic. Kyrie must feel a bit betrayed.

 

[kazuneko]

So is it too early for Kyrie to demand a trade?

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

So just looking at ESPN headlines and knowing nothing about details here, but Kyrie got $4 million less than Fred VanVleet on a deal of the same length?

 

[sezwho]

I do remember listening to a Bill Simmons podcast/suck off session with Kyrie when the Sage of Boston was a Celtic. Kyrie must feel a bit betrayed.

To be somewhat fair, Kyrie as a Celtic seems like it was in some kind of alternate universe now, where all things were possible.

Cuban didn’t really have a great choice here, but damn that’s $126m of headache coming down the pipe. Maybe they set that value so it’s easier to trade him for Harden, which feels somehow predestined.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

To be somewhat fair, Kyrie as a Celtic seems like it was in some kind of alternate universe now, where all things were possible.

Cuban didn’t really have a great choice here, but damn that’s $126m of headache coming down the pipe. Maybe they set that value so it’s easier to trade him for Harden, which feels somehow predestined.

dallas essentially chose this no-alternatives contract when it traded for him - one of the many bad aspects of that deal.

 

[bankshot1]

So is it too early for Kyrie to demand a trade?

As speculated (fantasized) elsewhere, is it too early for Luka?

 

[sezwho]

dallas essentially chose this no-alternatives contract when it traded for him - one of the many bad aspects of that deal.

Its a good point: this move was essentially inevitable at the point of the initial trade.

 

[johnmd20]

I can't believe some of these guys are getting the money they are. Harden, Zion, Kyrie, Kawhi are getting paid so much money and they are unreliable up and cannot be relied on in the regular season and are liabilities in the playoffs because they are always hurt or just bums when it counts. And then they make 40 million dollars a year.

I really don't get it. Yeah yeah, Kyrie is a wizard with the ball when he wants to be. The "when he wants to be" part is the important part. Plus he doesn't play defense and he's getting older, fast.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

I can't believe some of these guys are getting the money they are. Harden, Zion, Kyrie, Kawhi are getting paid so much money and they are unreliable up and cannot be relied on in the regular season and are liabilities in the playoffs because they are always hurt or just bums when it counts. And then they make 40 million dollars a year.

I really don't get it. Yeah yeah, Kyrie is a wizard with the ball when he wants to be. The "when he wants to be" part is the important part. Plus he doesn't play defense and he's getting older, fast.

100% with you, jmd20. I guess the concept of building a winning roster has passed me, or the majority of NBA GM's, by.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

100% with you, jmd20. I guess the concept of building a winning roster has passed me, or the majority of NBA GM's, by.

Again, the new CBA is guiding this market and if you listen to most analysis, these aren't all drunken spending deals.

Player options seem to be more in vogue these days. For the record, those options are for the benefit of the player, not the team but granting them appears to give clubs valuable flexibility. Maybe we see more of these going forward.

 

[luckiestman]

And he got snippy with Simmons on twitter too.View attachment 66748

I love Bill.

History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes

 

[bsan34]

I can't believe some of these guys are getting the money they are. Harden, Zion, Kyrie, Kawhi are getting paid so much money and they are unreliable up and cannot be relied on in the regular season and are liabilities in the playoffs because they are always hurt or just bums when it counts. And then they make 40 million dollars a year.

I really don't get it. Yeah yeah, Kyrie is a wizard with the ball when he wants to be. The "when he wants to be" part is the important part. Plus he doesn't play defense and he's getting older, fast.

Whereas Jaylen, imperfect as he is, plays and plays hard.

 

[johnmd20]

Whereas Jaylen, imperfect as he is, plays and plays hard.

Jaylen and Tatum, in fact. Those guys show up.

 

[benhogan]

I love Bill.

History doesn’t repeat itself but it often rhymes

View attachment 66766

Kyrie reading Simmon's tweet & reacting to it is pure gold...

Celtic fans are the Kings of Petty, wherever Kyrie goes we'll be there to crap on him.

 

[NomarsFool]

Jaylen and Tatum, in fact. Those guys show up.

Kind of wish Jaylen didn't show up at all for that last game

BTW, I am a JB fan.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

That Simmons tweet was a solid joke and I have to say Kyrie's reaction didn't seem out of line.

The contract however does seem turrible.

 

[joe dokes]

I can't believe some of these guys are getting the money they are. Harden, Zion, Kyrie, Kawhi are getting paid so much money and they are unreliable up and cannot be relied on in the regular season and are liabilities in the playoffs because they are always hurt or just bums when it counts. And then they make 40 million dollars a year.

I really don't get it. Yeah yeah, Kyrie is a wizard with the ball when he wants to be. The "when he wants to be" part is the important part. Plus he doesn't play defense and he's getting older, fast.

Zion is at least young. But I really don't get signing guys -- especially guards-- much over 31 or 32 anymore. There are so few at that age that a team can be built around, and these guys demand to be built around.

 

[Swedgin]

Kyrie reading Simmon's tweet & reacting to it is pure gold...

Celtic fans are the Kings of Petty, wherever Kyrie goes we'll be there to crap on him.

On that front, worth noting that he lost himself upwards of 50M by not taking the max extension from the Nets when it was on the table.

 

[benhogan]

On that front, worth noting that he lost himself upwards of 50M by not taking the max extension from the Nets when it was on the table.

There were all kinds of stipulations (like winning a Championship) & basically why Kyrie demanded a trade. It wasn't guaranteed.

https://netswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/03/the-athletic-brooklyn-nets-offered-kyrie-irving-extension-before-trade-request/

 

[Swedgin]

There were all kinds of stipulations (like winning a Championship) & basically why Kyrie demanded a trade. It wasn't guaranteed.

https://netswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/03/the-athletic-brooklyn-nets-offered-kyrie-irving-extension-before-trade-request/

I was referencing the prior offseason.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-nets-no-longer-offering-kyrie-irving-187m-contract-extension

 

[benhogan]

I was referencing the prior offseason.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/report-nets-no-longer-offering-kyrie-irving-187m-contract-extension

Yep, sounds like if he had gotten vaccinated the $187MM extension was his. Ouch

 

[TripleOT]

So Kyrie wasn’t happy on an always contending Cleveland team with a ball dominant LeBron, but Dallas thought he would be happy on a middling Mavs team with a ball dominant Doncic? Not even taking in all the craziness in Boston and Brooklyn, this was idiotic by Cuban and the Mavs.

 

[ManicCompression]

There were all kinds of stipulations (like winning a Championship) & basically why Kyrie demanded a trade. It wasn't guaranteed.

Where in that article does it list "Winning a Championship" as a guarantee stipulation? I heard reported via Russillo that the guarantees were just playing time guarantees - if he was healthy, they wanted him to play in actual basketball games, and they would pay him handsomely for doing so.

I guess this contract is a win for him b/c he still got $40 million, but both he and Harden have cost themselves between 50-100 million by being petulant and unreliable.

 

[benhogan]

Where in that article does it list "Winning a Championship" as a guarantee stipulation? I heard reported via Russillo that the guarantees were just playing time guarantees - if he was healthy, they wanted him to play in actual basketball games, and they would pay him handsomely for doing so.

I guess this contract is a win for him b/c he still got $40 million, but both he and Harden have cost themselves between 50-100 million by being petulant and unreliable.

Kyrie has had multiple issues at every stop it's really hard to keep up with all the extension offers, follow-up problems and teams rescinding offers after dealing with this freak.

He hoodwinked Danny (and us), but the rest of the League doesn't really have an excuse to trust him (Marks actually had a firmer hand at the end)

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kyrie-irving-insulted-by-nets-putting-championship-stipulation-in-contract-offer-per-report/


According to Bleacher Report's Chris Haynes, the Nets recently offered Irving a contract extension that included a championship stipulation, and Irving took that as "a big insult."

Haynes didn't provide any clarity on what, exactly, this "championship stipulation" entailed. Reports earlier in the day indicated that Irving wasn't happy with the final year of Brooklyn's proposed contract not being guaranteed. Might that final year become guaranteed if the Nets were to win a title between now and then?

Whatever the stipulation, Irving views himself as a caliber of player that shouldn't have to mess with non-guaranteed years on a contract. He's reportedly insulted such an offer would even be made. So he's out. Well, at least he says he wants out.

 

[ManicCompression]

Kyrie has had multiple issues at every stop it's really hard to keep up with all the extension offers, follow-up problems and teams rescinding offers after dealing with this freak.

He hoodwinked Danny (and us), but the rest of the League doesn't really have an excuse to trust him (Marks actually had a firmer hand at the end)

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kyrie-irving-insulted-by-nets-putting-championship-stipulation-in-contract-offer-per-report/


According to Bleacher Report's Chris Haynes, the Nets recently offered Irving a contract extension that included a championship stipulation, and Irving took that as "a big insult."

Haynes didn't provide any clarity on what, exactly, this "championship stipulation" entailed. Reports earlier in the day indicated that Irving wasn't happy with the final year of Brooklyn's proposed contract not being guaranteed. Might that final year become guaranteed if the Nets were to win a title between now and then?

Whatever the stipulation, Irving views himself as a caliber of player that shouldn't have to mess with non-guaranteed years on a contract. He's reportedly insulted such an offer would even be made. So he's out. Well, at least he says he wants out.

Got it - that wasn't in the other article. I would imagine that there are two different things that the Nets asked for, and it seems like Kyrie is trying to conflate them. Kyrie would earn extra money in the event of a championship (lots of players have this bonus built into contracts) and there was a non-guaranteed year that's probably tied to him playing a certain number of games in the years leading up to it.

I don't think Kyrie or Haynes deserve the benefit of the doubt. I don't think Sean Marks is the most honest of brokers but it feels very unlikely that he'd tie whole seasons of guarantees to a championship.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Haynes was just on a podcast the other day suggesting that the Blazers should send Lillard to Miami, even for a shittier package than what other teams may offer, because other players - like Scoot Henderson - will be watching to see if they treat Lillard well when considering whether to sign/extend with Portland. His reporting and analysis comes almost entirely from the players’ camp, with some lip service to the teams’ interests thrown in enough to not make it as obvious what is going on.

 

[the moops]

Haynes was just on a podcast the other day suggesting that the Blazers should send Lillard to Miami, even for a shittier package than what other teams may offer, because other players - like Scoot Henderson - will be watching to see if they treat Lillard well when considering whether to sign/extend with Portland. His reporting and analysis comes almost entirely from the players’ camp, with some lip service to the teams’ interests thrown in enough to not make it as obvious what is going on.

Portland gave Dame an ungodly sum of money. They have treated him fantastic

 

[astrozombie]

Haynes was just on a podcast the other day suggesting that the Blazers should send Lillard to Miami, even for a shittier package than what other teams may offer, because other players - like Scoot Henderson - will be watching to see if they treat Lillard well when considering whether to sign/extend with Portland. His reporting and analysis comes almost entirely from the players’ camp, with some lip service to the teams’ interests thrown in enough to not make it as obvious what is going on.

The "players see how a team treats others" is something I take with a giant grain of salt. The Lakers could not push Ball/Hart/Ingram out the door fast enough when AD was available and no one seems to recoil in horror at how the Lakers treat people. Danny dumped a damaged IT and the only impact that had was AD's dad using it as a talking point to ensure his son made it to... the Lakers. I am not saying it has no impact, but I bet there are a billion reasons (roster, location of city, coach, organizational reputation for competence, salary, etc.) why a player would want in/out of a situation before you get to how they treated other players in different situations. Besides, its pretty easy to take the "its just business" or "that was a different person in a different situation" perspective when this stuff goes on.
To your point, that shit about Scoot watching it closely is bullshit. That's likely planted by others who are firmly in Dame's camp and couldn't give a shit less what Scoot's people think.

 

[Jimbodandy]

It's one thing to blow off a star's request to be traded. That looks bad and sours your name around the league. But there's no obligation to trade a guy to his preferred destination, especially if there is a better offer out there. The teams have to look out for themselves too. And no team is making a deal worrying about a guy who hasn't played a game for them yet. Like I'm not sure that Lebron or Kareem got that level of consideration entering the league, nevermind the #3 pick in a pedestrian draft (beyond Victor).

 

[Cellar-Door]

Haynes is a hack.

Also the "other players are watching" stuff is dumb... it's Portland. Nobody goes there unless you offer them the most money, nobody who was going to go to Portland is not because you traded Dame to a different contender, Scoot isn't saying "I was gonna take the Supermax rookie extension like every other player ever offerred it, but they were mean to the guy I replaced who didn't want me here in the first place...."

 

[Kliq]

Haynes is a hack.

Also the "other players are watching" stuff is dumb... it's Portland. Nobody goes there unless you offer them the most money, nobody who was going to go to Portland is not because you traded Dame to a different contender, Scoot isn't saying "I was gonna take the Supermax rookie extension like every other player ever offerred it, but they were mean to the guy I replaced who didn't want me here in the first place...."

Scoot, who hasn't played a game for Portland yet and was drafted last week. The Dame trade would be ancient history by the time extension talk starts coming around, and if anything, it would be more important for Portland to surround Scoot with good young players over the next few years in order to convince him to stick around. Trading Dame for .25 cents on the dollar so that Scoot plays on shitty teams with little support for his first few years seems way more damaging than trading Dame to his non-preferred destination.

 

[JCizzle]

Haynes was just on a podcast the other day suggesting that the Blazers should send Lillard to Miami, even for a shittier package than what other teams may offer, because other players - like Scoot Henderson - will be watching to see if they treat Lillard well when considering whether to sign/extend with Portland. His reporting and analysis comes almost entirely from the players’ camp, with some lip service to the teams’ interests thrown in enough to not make it as obvious what is going on.

Simmons brings up this point all the time on his podcast and it's a good one. There's probably plenty of examples of teams doing favors for agents/players, but how often do they ever get paid back? I can't think of many examples. Maybe the Lakers signing Klutch guys to suck up to LeBron before he jumped there?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Simmons brings up this point all the time on his podcast and it's a good one. There's probably plenty of examples of teams doing favors for agents/players, but how often do they ever get paid back? I can't think of many examples.

There are some... Horford signing that discount extension, Harden last summer signing for less than he could have, Bobby Portis signing a 1 year well below what he could have and trusting the team would make good on it the next summer... there are definitely some. I would guess there is also some behind the scenes stuff like pulling draftees from workouts to steer them to a team with a promise, etc.

Edit- I forgot the big one... all the "players can't tamper" negotiations that go on with players and agents that help teams a lot.

 

[lexrageorge]

Lillard has leverage when it comes to asking for a trade. But Portland has leverage when it comes to carrying out the trade. They don’t need to be bullied by hacks like Haynes or some random player agency.

 

[benhogan]

This Laker fan/Klutch schill is "monitoring the Portland situation" to make sure they treat Dame right

starts at 2:19

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK7IQjtqcc0

 

[lars10]

This Laker fan/Klutch schill is "monitoring the Portland situation" to make sure they treat Dame right

starts at 2:19

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK7IQjtqcc0

Who is this person? And is there a particular reason to care about there point of view?

 

[benhogan]

Jason Timpf. He's on Colin Cowherd's podcast network The Volume. Draymond Green & Jason Timpf probably have the biggest hoops followings on The Volume.

He's pretty good but a complete Laker/Klutch homer (which can be somewhat entertaining, esp. when the Lakers were struggling with Russ)