Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

Bleedred

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Charles Barkley last night concluding his analysis of the Nets loss (he pretty much ripped them). "Hey Kenny, when will Brooklyn announce the night when they hang the banner for winning the play-in game?"
 

Jimbodandy

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Yes but the one championship he does have, he was pretty huge.
I mean what has Jokic done, or KAT? They're both elite offensive players, and one isn't terrible on D.

I hate being in the position of defending Kyrie, but the guy is an elite fucking basketball player. To say otherwise is bizarre.

If he's not top 10, fine. Call him top 30 if you want.
 

nighthob

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It seemed obvious that Durant's injury was going to be short term. And given the realities of Omicron, court cases, general mood, etc., it wasn't hard to forsee the end of the mandate once the Yankees season was ready to get underway.
Right, but Durant isn’t a spring chicken and has had a lot of lower body injuries at this point in his career. Missing large chunks of the season just might be the new normal for him. And the story was that Harden told the Nets front office that he was sick of Irving’s act and that they had to choose. The Nets (read: Durant) chose the Greek philosopher Play-doh instead. And, to be brutally frank, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Demon Kyzuzu is going to have that effect on any third star.
 

mcpickl

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Yes but the one championship he does have, he was pretty huge.
Yes, with LeBron as his teammate.

My guess would be, if you plugged Beal in there instead of Kyrie they also win one championship in those three years.

I mean what has Jokic done, or KAT? They're both elite offensive players, and one isn't terrible on D.

I hate being in the position of defending Kyrie, but the guy is an elite fucking basketball player. To say otherwise is bizarre.

If he's not top 10, fine. Call him top 30 if you want.
So, Bradley Beal level then?
 

nighthob

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Agree that Harden was willing to play with KI at the beginning but from all reports, KI and Harden weren't getting along by the end. Remember the "Harden looked at Irving like he had 3 heads" when Irving burned sage in CLE?
Exactly. From all reports he gave Marks an ultimatum and the Nets bet the house on Play-doh. But that was Durant’s choice.
 

joe dokes

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Jimbodandy

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Yes, with LeBron as his teammate.

My guess would be, if you plugged Beal in there instead of Kyrie they also win one championship in those three years.



So, Bradley Beal level then?
Offensively they're quite similar yes. Both elite.

Defensively, Beal is much, much worse.

So if defense doesn't matter to you, they're the same guy.
 

ManicCompression

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How about this - from a skills perspective, Kyrie is probably a top 10 NBA player. He has the best handle in the league, he's the best below the rim finisher in the league, and flirts with 50/40/90 yearly (and is like an all-time shooter generally).

When it comes to the application of those skills, he's a top 30 player because he doesn't try consistently, he's not the best at involving his teammates, and he disappears frequently (as we saw in Boston and in this series - you'd think he was on the Black Sox from watching him games 2-4). When it comes to availability, he might even be further down the list due to injuries, "mental breaks", and whatever the hell his quixotic covid thing was.

If he approached the game like Dame Lillard or Curry, he'd easily be in that stratosphere (if not higher), but instead he's an unserious person with likely narcissism issues and all those great skills will kind of go to waste on underperforming teams.
 

Van Everyman

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How about this - from a skills perspective, Kyrie is probably a top 10 NBA player. He has the best handle in the league, he's the best below the rim finisher in the league, and flirts with 50/40/90 yearly (and is like an all-time shooter generally).

When it comes to the application of those skills, he's a top 30 player because he doesn't try consistently, he's not the best at involving his teammates, and he disappears frequently (as we saw in Boston and in this series - you'd think he was on the Black Sox from watching him games 2-4). When it comes to availability, he might even be further down the list due to injuries, "mental breaks", and whatever the hell his quixotic covid thing was.

If he approached the game like Dame Lillard or Curry, he'd easily be in that stratosphere (if not higher), but instead he's an unserious person with likely narcissism issues and all those great skills will kind of go to waste on underperforming teams.
And yet ... it seems a lot of players really like Kyrie. KD. Tatum. Smart. I will be the first to say, I don't really get it. But then, perhaps a lot of these guys care about more than basketball, winning and being a good teammate. Or at least, a lot more than I thought.
 

ManicCompression

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And yet ... it seems a lot of players really like Kyrie. KD. Tatum. Smart. I will be the first to say, I don't really get it. But then, perhaps a lot of these guys care about more than basketball, winning and being a good teammate. Or at least, a lot more than I thought.
Yeah, I hear that, he's well-liked and respected, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what I posited above (conversely, lots of players don't like Jimmy Butler, who's a try hard). By involving teammates, I meant driving an offense by creating opportunities for others. He's not all that great of a passer considering his wealth of other skills.
 

Deathofthebambino

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The best way I can describe Kyrie.

He'd arguably be one of, if not, the best 1on1 player on the planet.

The problem is the NBA is a team game, and he's simply not great at anything that doesn't involve him being 1on1. Either on or off the court.
 

Van Everyman

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Yeah, I hear that, he's well-liked and respected, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what I posited above (conversely, lots of players don't like Jimmy Butler, who's a try hard). By involving teammates, I meant driving an offense by creating opportunities for others. He's not all that great of a passer considering his wealth of other skills.
Oh no, I totally understood what you meant. And agree. I just find it odd to me that guys are able to bifurcate their feelings about him -- to respect and like him personally when he absolutely is an unserious person and narcissist who leaves his teammates out to dry year after year. I mean, I get that basketball is a talent game and that "game respects game" and whatnot. But I find it bizarre that a guy like Smart wants anything to do with him after 2018-19 -- much less that Tatum vacations with him.

@Deathofthebambino, you have it right. It would appear the Uncle Drew plot hit closer to home than it seemed.
 

RG33

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In the 8 seasons Kyrie didn't have Lebron on his team

team missed the playoffs 4 times
team went to the conference finals when he didn't play due to injury once
swept in the first round once
beat 4-1 in the second round once
beat 4-3 in the second round in a series he didn't play the final 3 games once

If Lebron never decided to go back home, this guy would be Bradley Beal.

Instead he's talked about as if he's on a much higher level.
You left out the part where was was “recognized for his greatness”.

Aside from that, it sums everything up quite nicely. ;-)
 

RG33

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Offensively they're quite similar yes. Both elite.

Defensively, Beal is much, much worse.

So if defense doesn't matter to you, they're the same guy.
I’m old enough to remember when Bradley Beal was the dream get for the Celtics on this board.
 

scottyno

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They would, presumably, receive major draft assets if they trade all of the big 3
Those major draft assets are no longer major when the other team is getting Durant, or possibly Kyrie depending on what you're adding him to unless they did some deal where they were getting the picks of another team. They really have no choice but to go for it now and hope it works. Replace 2 out of Mills Curry and Dragic with actual functional wings and on paper they're a top 5 team in the NBA next year, they aren't blowing that up.
 

Jimbodandy

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I’m old enough to remember when Bradley Beal was the dream get for the Celtics on this board.
Yeah I onboard with that. Also pretty psyched at the Kemba signing. Now, watching Tatum and Brown score like All Stars and distribute the ball, and watching the team put clamps on people, it seems crazy to pine for smaller guys who can't play D and really don't pass particularly well.

I was wrong.
 

Van Everyman

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Not sure if this was posted but Shams reported that Simmons and Paul met with Nets brass the other day and that Ben told them his back stuff may be related to his mental struggles that date to last years playoffs:

The fallout of Simmons being ruled out Sunday led to a meeting among franchise officials, Simmons and his agent, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul, on Monday in Brooklyn. According to sources, Simmons told those in the room that a mental block exists for him, dating in part to last summer’s postseason, which is creating stress that could serve as a trigger point for his back issues. He added that he does want to play basketball and play for the Nets as he works on solutions in regard to his well-being.
He also reports that the players weren’t too pleased about how things played out this past week with Simmons:

For Nets players, the confusion was not centered around Simmons’ ailment, but with the perceived lack of attempt to play, effort to be in uniform and push his body in these high-stakes playoffs, sources said. Nets players and coaches wanted to see Simmons show resolve and enter this series to start his on-court Brooklyn tenure, even if it was for limited minutes on Monday or none at all while still dressing for the game.
 

lexrageorge

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Not sure if this was posted but Shams reported that Simmons and Paul met with Nets brass the other day and that Ben told them his back stuff may be related to his mental struggles that date to last years playoffs:



He also reports that the players weren’t too pleased about how things played out this past week with Simmons:
IOW, KD is already done with Simmons.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not sure if this was posted but Shams reported that Simmons and Paul met with Nets brass the other day and that Ben told them his back stuff may be related to his mental struggles that date to last years playoffs:



He also reports that the players weren’t too pleased about how things played out this past week with Simmons:
As with this whole saga during the series.... WHO THE HELL IS LEAKING THIS AND WHY? I mean, it makes everyone involved look bad for every detail of these things to come out. From Simmons' side it looks way worse to hype up a potential return then not return, it also doesn't help him or his value to say that the mental issues may be an issue (though possibly true, stress and anxiety often can come with or physical symptoms, or exacerbate existing injuries), from the team's side, other than Nash, nobody was throwing cold water on the possible return, and what does leaking that rather than just a back issue there are ongoing mental health issues? It doesn't make anyone on the team's side look better and it lowers what little value he had if you decide to rebuild.

On the player side....
I get why they'd be frustrated by the tease that he might come back, then not.... but the idea that he should suit up if he can't play just to sit on the bench in uniform.... WHAT? Also, I do find it funny that the same teammates who were cool with Kyrie repeatedly missing games because he wanted to go on walkabout, or he wouldn't get vaccinated, or any of the other wildly selfish shit he always does are done with Simmons after one series.

Everyone involved in this would have been better off if they had just declared him out once he started having back issues and said he'd return next season.
 

lexrageorge

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As with this whole saga during the series.... WHO THE HELL IS LEAKING THIS AND WHY? I mean, it makes everyone involved look bad for every detail of these things to come out. From Simmons' side it looks way worse to hype up a potential return then not return, it also doesn't help him or his value to say that the mental issues may be an issue (though possibly true, stress and anxiety often can come with or physical symptoms, or exacerbate existing injuries), from the team's side, other than Nash, nobody was throwing cold water on the possible return, and what does leaking that rather than just a back issue there are ongoing mental health issues? It doesn't make anyone on the team's side look better and it lowers what little value he had if you decide to rebuild.

On the player side....
I get why they'd be frustrated by the tease that he might come back, then not.... but the idea that he should suit up if he can't play just to sit on the bench in uniform.... WHAT? Also, I do find it funny that the same teammates who were cool with Kyrie repeatedly missing games because he wanted to go on walkabout, or he wouldn't get vaccinated, or any of the other wildly selfish shit he always does are done with Simmons after one series.

Everyone involved in this would have been better off if they had just declared him out once he started having back issues and said he'd return next season.
I can see some members of the coaching staff being really pissed at Simmons and being more than happy to leak anything that makes him look bad to the press. Same goes with teammates. Kyrie will get deference from teammates that Simmons will not get for a number of reasons, some of which are perfectly valid.

Yeah, it doesn't necessarily help matters if the Nets want to move Simmons this offseason, but for assistants that are trying to move up the coaching ladder, seeing your team getting swept is going to really bother them, and the return from a theoretical Simmons trade isn't really their problem at the moment.

Separately, remember the narrative is that Morey was an idiot for how he handled the Simmons situation by not dumping him to the Lakers for nothing last summer. Seems like that aged well.
 

Auger34

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And yet ... it seems a lot of players really like Kyrie. KD. Tatum. Smart. I will be the first to say, I don't really get it. But then, perhaps a lot of these guys care about more than basketball, winning and being a good teammate. Or at least, a lot more than I thought.
I’ve got no backup for this but it seem like people like Kyrie when he’s not on their actual team (it kind of feels like Kyrie feels this way about his teammates too honestly).
I should clarify that I mean ex-teammates like him how but not when they were actually playing together (something Jaylen mentioned)

It seems like he’s someone who’s pretty moody and emotional so being around him every day is much tougher than seeing or talking to him once in a while
 

nighthob

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Offensively they're quite similar yes. Both elite.

Defensively, Beal is much, much worse.

So if defense doesn't matter to you, they're the same guy.
I’m not actually sure that this is true. Irving spent most of his career on good to great defensive teams, Beal has played for the Wizards. Beal was an OK defender early in his career under Randy Wittman (and the Wizards tended to be in the top 10-12 under him). In the last five years that organization has been a tire fire. So I’m not sure that Irving is a better defender or if he just plays on teams with the ability to hide his defense better.
 

nighthob

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Yeah I onboard with that. Also pretty psyched at the Kemba signing. Now, watching Tatum and Brown score like All Stars and distribute the ball, and watching the team put clamps on people, it seems crazy to pine for smaller guys who can't play D and really don't pass particularly well.
I think that most of it was driven by the early opt-out in Tatum’s contract and the desire that Boston keep him happy so that he stayed in place. All Star Tatum might have needed that, JayVP is going to be winning titles here, so it’s not really an issue anymore.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Separately, remember the narrative is that Morey was an idiot for how he handled the Simmons situation by not dumping him to the Lakers for nothing last summer. Seems like that aged well.
Seeing how Harden is playing in the PHI-TOR series, well I was listening to Bobby Marks on Lowe's podcast and they suggested that the trade was lose-lose for everyone. Including the fans. :cool:
 

NomarsFool

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Kyrie's a unique individual. He has done quite a bit of charity work (or at least donations - which is not the same as work) which is quite admirable. I don't agree with his stand on vaccination at all, and I don't even respect it, but I would be willing to bet there are NBA players who agree with him, and some which don't agree with him but respect his decision.

There's also just personal charisma and what it's like to hang out with him, which I have no idea about. But, it's certainly conceivable that Kyrie is just more fun to hang out with than Ben Simmons. I have no idea - but basketball players, being smaller teams, I would imagine have to spend more time in close proximity to each other than football teams or baseball teams (25 cabs for 25 players as they used to say).
 

Jimbodandy

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I think that most of it was driven by the early opt-out in Tatum’s contract and the desire that Boston keep him happy so that he stayed in place. All Star Tatum might have needed that, JayVP is going to be winning titles here, so it’s not really an issue anymore.
The landscape has definitely changed.
 

lovegtm

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Kyrie's a unique individual. He has done quite a bit of charity work (or at least donations - which is not the same as work) which is quite admirable. I don't agree with his stand on vaccination at all, and I don't even respect it, but I would be willing to bet there are NBA players who agree with him, and some which don't agree with him but respect his decision.

There's also just personal charisma and what it's like to hang out with him, which I have no idea about. But, it's certainly conceivable that Kyrie is just more fun to hang out with than Ben Simmons. I have no idea - but basketball players, being smaller teams, I would imagine have to spend more time in close proximity to each other than football teams or baseball teams (25 cabs for 25 players as they used to say).
Basketball and hilariously un-self-aware press conferences aside, lots of people seem to really like Kyrie personally. I'm glad that the Celtics players who aren't Jaylen like him, I'm glad he's another team's problem on the court, and I wish Danny hadn't held on too long.
 

benhogan

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Watching the Nets & Sixers ink Kyrie + Harden to $400MM may be Brad's best move this summer.

Ballmer just needs to lure Ojiri out to LA and the Atlantic will be ours for a while.
 

NomarsFool

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A bit off topic, but what is the probability that the second max contract for a player works out well? The 3rd max contract? Definitely seems like less than 50%.
 

djbayko

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There goes Kyrie exaggerating his worth / importance and turning all of his criticism into racism again.

View: https://twitter.com/KyrieIrving/status/1519675110193606657

When I see my name or my brothers/sisters names getting spun through the media, I refer to all my research about who they are. Their job is to CONTROL PUBLIC PERCEPTION, all while profiting off discussing, discrediting, and disrespecting people’s lives for entertainment.

I send shots at the puppet masters, not the puppets. All puppets do is run around society, trying to gain popularity and state opinions. What a life!

My name is worth billions to these media corporations. My brothers and sisters who deal with this know exactly what I mean.

When you become free mentally and spiritually, there is not much this twisted/Racist society can surprise you with.

My ancestors left behind all of the wisdom and truth for their agenda to be exposed. When you know exactly who they are, they can’t hide from their filth.

Alot of of these media corporations make their money by degrading BLACK/African/Indigenous community heroes. They thrive off of it, and then sell it back to us by having a hand selected person or group of people spark controversy about them for the world to see.

Just Watch all of the people who wake up everyday and report about people’s lives on TV and social media, and then profit off of them. Then they justify their jobs by saying they get paid to say how they feel. Lol Its like these people live in a Fantasy
 

leetinsley38

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Now he’s calling himself a martyr.

was not expecting a mandate to be brought down in a way where it wasn’t going to let me play at all,” Irving told Gonzalez. “I had the opportunity to play away games still but there was no plan in place, there was no vision of how it was going to work for our team. And I think that not only impacted not just me, but a lot of people. Just had to sit in that hot seat for a little bit and deal with it. The life of a martyr, bro
The flat earther also spent his time calling politicians, scientists, health care professionals trying to see if there was a way around getting the vaccine.
 

Bleedred

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I tried to write a response to this about half a dozen times, but the man is truly so delusional, and what he posted is such word salad pablum, I don't even know how to respond to it. He's a martyr, being criticized by the puppet masters, who put him (and his brothers and sisters) on tv, comment about him and them to make money, and, something, something, something, the Nets didn't have a plan when I said I wouldn't take the vaccine and couldn't play at home.

Right on Kyrie
 

NomarsFool

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Complaining about people making money off of entertaining people by talking about you is a little - I don’t quite know what the word is - when you make absolutely obscene amounts of money by entertaining people yourself. In all seriousness, if the media didn’t exist, basketball players would be able to earn far less money.
 

Shaky Walton

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I tried to write a response to this about half a dozen times, but the man is truly so delusional, and what he posted is such word salad pablum, I don't even know how to respond to it. He's a martyr, being criticized by the puppet masters, who put him (and his brothers and sisters) on tv, comment about him and them to make money, and, something, something, something, the Nets didn't have a plan when I said I wouldn't take the vaccine and couldn't play at home.

Right on Kyrie
Some things are too absurd to respond to cogently. Though I enjoyed the bolded sentence above.

The fundamental problem is that Kyrie sees himself as extremely intelligent and deep, and he's clearly neither. And he just as clearly has no self-awareness or idea that his continual contradictions and narcissism make him an easy target for ridicule.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Complaining about people making money off of entertaining people by talking about you is a little - I don’t quite know what the word is - when you make absolutely obscene amounts of money by entertaining people yourself. In all seriousness, if the media didn’t exist, basketball players would be able to earn far less money.
Chutzpah, what you’re looking for is chutzpah.
 

joe dokes

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I tried to write a response to this about half a dozen times, but the man is truly so delusional, and what he posted is such word salad pablum, I don't even know how to respond to it. He's a martyr, being criticized by the puppet masters, who put him (and his brothers and sisters) on tv, comment about him and them to make money, and, something, something, something, the Nets didn't have a plan when I said I wouldn't take the vaccine and couldn't play at home.

Right on Kyrie
He falls into the same bucket into which I dropped Curt Schilling long before he set himself on fire---"articulate" is not the same as "intelligent."

Chutzpah, what you’re looking for is chutzpah.
Maybe the thread title needs to be updated.
 

djbayko

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He falls into the same bucket into which I dropped Curt Schilling long before he set himself on fire---"articulate" is not the same as "intelligent."
I think you still need to find a different word. I object to even this characterization. He uses big words once in a while but it's all gibberish.
ar·tic·u·late
adjective
/ärˈtikyələt/
1.
(of a person or a person's words) having or showing the ability to speak fluently and coherently.