Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Actually, teams like Dallas, Chicago and maybe even the Clippers could all beat anything the Lakers could offer for a half season of Irving. They may not even have to trade much in the way of draft capital.
 

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I get the Lakers doing it, but why in the hell would the Nets want Westbrook? Literally anyone in the league with an outside shot (and good enough to be on the court at the end of games) would be a better fit for them. If you've got Claxton/Simmons/Westbrook on the floor at the same time, your other two guys could be Durant and [Steph] Curry and it wouldn't matter, there's no offensive spacing.
This is where I am too. Westbrook makes no sense at all for the Nets.
 

jmcc5400

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Actually, teams like Dallas, Chicago and maybe even the Clippers could all beat anything the Lakers could offer for a half season of Irving. They may not even have to trade much in the way of draft capital.
I don't know about that. If the Lakers are willing to part with their unprotected '27 and '29 picks that seems rich enough to induce a third team to get involved if Brooklyn wants help now. Would Danny swing Conley + to Brooklyn to take on Westbrook and those two picks?
 

benhogan

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I wish Kyrie demanded a trade a week before the deadline in 2019.

Instead, we get nothing, the team gets bounced early, and in a panic, Danny signs feel-good players: Kem-baya and Kanter (eventually costs us Desmond Bane pick).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't know about that. If the Lakers are willing to part with their unprotected '27 and '29 picks that seems rich enough to induce a third team to get involved if Brooklyn wants help now. Would Danny swing Conley + to Brooklyn to take on Westbrook and those two picks?
If the Lakers offer that then I agree. It just seems steep and desperate for this sort of trade.

I am assuming that any Irving trade is a function of what sort of NBA assets (young players with some control, useful rotation pieces under contract) the Nets can get subject to salary match constraints.
 

Cellar-Door

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So the thing about Kyrie to the Lakers is... sure if the Lakers will trade picks it's the best value, but then the Nets are giving up on 1-2 seasons of Durant, and he'll be pissed.
Unless they are also trading KD, what they want isn't necessarily best value, but best package to still compete, and basically anyone who isn't the Lakers can do that better.
 

jmcc5400

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If the Lakers offer that then I agree. It just seems steep and desperate for this sort of trade.

I am assuming that any Irving trade is a function of what sort of NBA assets (young players with some control, useful rotation pieces under contract) the Nets can get subject to salary match constraints.
I think the Lakers are exactly that desperate with LeBron doing his passive aggressive GM act. Brooklyn doesn't want Russ and it probably doesn't want those picks (I assume KD exerts a similar "win now" pressure), but what those picks (or just one of them) could procure could be appealing to get out from under the Kyrie headache.
 

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So the thing about Kyrie to the Lakers is... sure if the Lakers will trade picks it's the best value, but then the Nets are giving up on 1-2 seasons of Durant, and he'll be pissed.
Unless they are also trading KD, what they want isn't necessarily best value, but best package to still compete, and basically anyone who isn't the Lakers can do that better.
Sure but if they swing anything close to those terms with the Lakers, then the number of people who will be lining up to buy those future Lakers 1sts in exchange for their current useful pieces will be quite long.

And if Durant's health for the playoffs is in doubt, then Marks would do best to hold onto such picks, punt the season, and wield them for trades in the summer. God knows he has plenty of other matching salary available in Simmons. I find that unlikely since the team currently sits in 4th in the East (despite only being 7-8 in 2023), but it's certainly a possibility.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think the Lakers are exactly that desperate with LeBron doing his passive aggressive GM act. Brooklyn doesn't want Russ and it probably doesn't want those picks (I assume KD exerts a similar "win now" pressure), but what those picks (or just one of them) could procure could be appealing to get out from under the Kyrie headache.
If Brooklyn can get a LaVine+ or a package that includes someone like Kennard plus a couple of Jackson/Wall or even Powell or a Dinwiddie+ draft capital return I could see them looking hard at that.

It won't make them a contender but it does give the Nets some warm bodies who know what to do on an NBA court to go along with Durant. At this point, its probably the best they can hope for given the calendar.
 

radsoxfan

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I get the Lakers doing it, but why in the hell would the Nets want Westbrook? Literally anyone in the league with an outside shot (and good enough to be on the court at the end of games) would be a better fit for them. If you've got Claxton/Simmons/Westbrook on the floor at the same time, your other two guys could be Durant and [Steph] Curry and it wouldn't matter, there's no offensive spacing.
Nobody wants Westbrook of course, the Nets don't either.

Kyrie makes 37M this season, how else do you propose a Laker trade works? All of the mid to low salary Lakers stink so it's not like the Nets want a bunch of them either. Obviously a Laker trade would be about the future picks.

The big question is, do the Nets want to entirely punt on the Durant Era and trade him in the offseason? A trade for Westbrook and picks puts them on a path to a tear down. Tough to see another viable path honestly...maybe the Suns for CP3, Crowder, and more? Hard to understand a team giving the Nets anything for a few months of Kyrie that makes them better in the short term.
 

Euclis20

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Nobody wants Westbrook of course, the Nets don't either.

Kyrie makes 37M this season, how else do you propose a Laker trade works? All of the mid to low salary Lakers stink so it's not like the Nets want a bunch of them either. Obviously a Laker trade would be about the future picks.

The big question is, do the Nets want to entirely punt on the Durant Era and trade him in the offseason? A trade for Westbrook and picks basically assures a tear down. I don't really see another viable path honestly...maybe the Suns for CP3, Crowder, and more? Hard to see a team giving the Nets anything for a few months of Kyrie that makes them better in the short term.
A Laker trade doesn't work for the Nets. For it to work for the Nets, even if they were comfortable with Westbrook's fit on the court, they need to worry about how Durant feels about:

-Reuniting with Westbrook
-Potentially punting at least the rest of this season because the real value is draft picks that won't pay out until Durant is in his 40s.

The only way they trade for Westbrook (and those far off picks) is if they trade Durant (separately). I don't think they want to do that, so they try to reload by adding value (in the form of rotation players or draft picks) for someone like Lavine. If this was over the summer maybe they could be talked into a trade for Westbrook and picks, then they could try to use those assets (plus Simmons) to try to add real talent. There's not enough time for that now, if they trade for Westbrook and picks they are basically punting on this year (which is baffling given that they were 27-13 and 2nd in the conference when Durant got hurt).

My prediction? They don't do anything and just let Kyrie walk over the summer. They convince themselves that it's worth it to roll the dice for the rest of the year in the hopes that what they have wins them the title this year, just like Boston did 4 years ago with Kyrie.
 

the moops

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I don't know about that. If the Lakers are willing to part with their unprotected '27 and '29 picks that seems rich enough to induce a third team to get involved if Brooklyn wants help now. Would Danny swing Conley + to Brooklyn to take on Westbrook and those two picks?
I sure as hell hope he would.

Irving and Olynyk to LAL
Conley and Beasley to BRK
Westbrook and picks to UTA
 

kazuneko

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It’s funny, I was just thinking that maybe Kyrie had learned something. I mean, he hasn’t said or done anything controversial since returning from suspension and the Nets have really been playing well. Sadly, it looks like he still has no insight and continues to externalize his problems rather than focusing on the core issue: his own attitude.
The only GM I can see being interested is LeBron James, and it’s hard to see what the Lakers could offer that would allow the Nets to contend this year, which you’d think would still be a goal.
After all, they were surprisingly good with Kyrie and Durant on the floor together and Durant is reportedly about to return. I think the key question for the Nets is what Kyrie will do if they simply ignore his request? It’s not the first time he’s asked out, and somehow they’ve been able to play well since, even after a suspension. And Kyrie’s threat to leave does not give him much leverage as I don’t think there was any chance the Nets would have been interested in resigning him regardless..
 

radsoxfan

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A Laker trade doesn't work for the Nets. For it to work for the Nets, even if they were comfortable with Westbrook's fit on the court, they need to worry about how Durant feels about:

-Reuniting with Westbrook
-Potentially punting at least the rest of this season because the real value is draft picks that won't pay out until Durant is in his 40s.

The only way they trade for Westbrook (and those far off picks) is if they trade Durant (separately). I don't think they want to do that, so they try to reload by adding value (in the form of rotation players or draft picks) for someone like Lavine. If this was over the summer maybe they could be talked into a trade for Westbrook and picks, then they could try to use those assets (plus Simmons) to try to add real talent. There's not enough time for that now, if they trade for Westbrook and picks they are basically punting on this year (which is baffling given that they were 27-13 and 2nd in the conference when Durant got hurt).

My prediction? They don't do anything and just let Kyrie walk over the summer. They convince themselves that it's worth it to roll the dice for the rest of the year in the hopes that what they have wins them the title this year, just like Boston did 4 years ago with Kyrie.
A Laker trade works for the Nets if it's the best they can do, but I agree it likely leads to trading Durant (probably in the offseason). You don't have to even consider Westbrook, he is salary fodder. Could easily just get bought out, the fit with KD is meaningless. Westbrook is toast and everyone knows it.

No idea what the Bulls would want with a few months of Kyrie. If they want to get rid of Lavine they would probably look for some long term assets.
 

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I think Brooklyn tells him to pound sand. The Lakers are the only team that will give him the contract he wants, except they won’t have the cap room. No one else will beat what Brooklyn will offer because they still need him.
 

mauf

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Do the Nets have a path to put another max guy alongside Durant if Kyrie leaves this summer, or do they need to preserve the salary slot?

Kyrie to Phoenix for CP3 makes some sense. Paul is showing his age this season, but I’d still rather have him than a discontented Kyrie. The Suns would have the slightly better player and would get out of the 2/61 left on Paul’s contract after this season.
 

Red Averages

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I think Brooklyn tells him to pound sand. The Lakers are the only team that will give him the contract he wants, except they won’t have the cap room. No one else will beat what Brooklyn will offer because they still need him.
Yup. Same thing they did with Durant’s request.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Do the Nets have a path to put another max guy alongside Durant if Kyrie leaves this summer, or do they need to preserve the salary slot?

Kyrie to Phoenix for CP3 makes some sense. Paul is showing his age this season, but I’d still rather have him than a discontented Kyrie. The Suns would have the slightly better player and would get out of the 2/61 left on Paul’s contract after this season.
If hoopshype is up to date, they'll have about $45 mil in expiring deals this summer between Harris, O'Neal, Clayton, and Mills, so they could probably get there despite $85 mil tied to KD and Simmons alone.
 

snowmanny

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I don't care when this request was made or the real reasons why, I choose to believe that that drubbing the Cs gave them broke him.
If he had stayed in Boston and showed up for work he would be a huge huge star right now*. But he had a plan.

*I know he's already a star.
 

mauf

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If hoopshype is up to date, they'll have about $45 mil in expiring deals this summer between Harris, O'Neal, Clayton, and Mills, so they could probably get there despite $85 mil tied to KD and Simmons alone.
Claxton would have a market if the Nets put him on the block. Not sure I see any interest in the others unless the Nets are taking salary back (which of course would defeat the purpose).

But if the Nets trade for CP3, they could absolutely open up cap space in 2024 — those guys will be gone, and someone would probably take Paul in a straight salary dump to roll over cap space.
 
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the moops

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I think Brooklyn tells him to pound sand. The Lakers are the only team that will give him the contract he wants, except they won’t have the cap room. No one else will beat what Brooklyn will offer because they still need him.
Lakers can have upwards of 36 million in cap space next year should they want to
 

Euclis20

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A Laker trade works for the Nets if it's the best they can do, but I agree it likely leads to trading Durant (probably in the offseason). You don't have to even consider Westbrook, he is salary fodder. Could easily just get bought out, the fit with KD is meaningless. Westbrook is toast and everyone knows it.

No idea what the Bulls would want with a few months of Kyrie. If they want to get rid of Lavine they would probably look for some long term assets.
This could absolutely end up being the case, and if/when that happens the Nets should just stand pat. I say this knowing full well how much of an unreliable flake Kyrie is, but when he and Durant were healthy, the Nets were one of the 6-7 teams in the league with a legit chance to win the title. Them rolling the dice that they rediscover the chemistry from just a few weeks ago is what they should do.
 

Tony C

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About the only teams I see willing to do this is probably Lakers with Westbrook and two first round picks, or the Suns (Paul or Ayton?)
In addition to other teams mentioned, I'd put the Clippers front and center. That's a messed up team with great talent...throw one more nutjob into the pile and hope it lasts for a few months without exploding/imploding? The talent would be impressive.

It's almost certainly just a temper tantrum because the Nets made it clear they won't give him a 3 or 4 year max.
I thought they did offer him that extension but it was the "stipulations" in it that made him flip? Who here among us wouldn't resent being told we shouldn't be an anti-semitic a-hole in exchange for x millions of $?

My guess is the Nets call his bluff as they did w/ KD
 

Devizier

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I think we can assume that Durant is likely not coming back. I think the Lakers trade is quite plausible since the other contenders might not want to chance a rental.
 

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I sure as hell hope he would.

Irving and Olynyk to LAL
Conley and Beasley to BRK
Westbrook and picks to UTA
This sounds like the closest thing to a win-win that I've heard proposed yet, because of what BRK ends up with. Assuming - big if - the Lakers are willing to light even more future draft capital on fire in order to upgrade Russ to Irving and try to extend their Lebron/Davis window of contention. I wouldn't do so if I were LAL, because I can't see that team even making the WCF, but I'm not facing the same internal political calculations they are, so who knows.

That said, the idea of Westbrook getting traded and then bought out, being free to sign with any contender for the pro-rated minimum, would be a VERY interesting situation to see play out. Would you want to pay Russell Westbrook whatever portion of his $47M? Absolutely not. Would you want him on your roster for $600k for the rest of the season, in whatever role you decide for him? Totally different question. Shit, I'd really think about it for us, and tell myself that Mazzulla can get him to stop taking jumpers.
 
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kazuneko

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I think we can assume that Durant is likely not coming back. I think the Lakers trade is quite plausible since the other contenders might not want to chance a rental.
It’s not just a rental issue. Any team with a chance of contending (and Kyrie won’t be willing to go elsewhere) will be very wary of adding Kyrie to the mix, especially longterm.
Kyrie is screwing himself with this request. In the last couple of months he was slowly rebuilding his value. Had he had been able to keep his mouth shut and continued to produce on the court, he might have rebuilt his image enough to secure a big contract in the off-season. This request just reinforces the idea that he’ll never be satisfied anywhere, and will be a long-term headache for anyone willing to give him a chance as a free agent. The man is so clueless it’d be sad - if he didn’t come off as such a narcissistic prick..
 

jmcc5400

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This sounds like the closest thing to a win-win that I've heard proposed yet, because of what BRK ends up with. Assuming - big if - the Lakers are willing to light even more future draft capital on fire in order to upgrade Russ to Irving and try to extend their Lebron/Davis window of contention. I wouldn't do so if I were LAL, because I can't see that team even making the WCF, but I'm not facing the same internal political calculations they are, so who knows.

That said, the idea of Westbrook getting traded and then bought out, being free to sign with any contender for the pro-rated minimum, would be a VERY interesting situation to see play out. Would you want to pay Russell Westbrook whatever portion of his $47M? Absolutely not. Would you want him on your roster for $600k for the rest of the season, in whatever role you decide for him? Totally different question. Shit, I'd really think about it for us, and tell myself that Mazzulla can get him to stop taking jumpers.
It’s even funnier to think of motivated Russ dragging the Jazz past the Lakers in the standings.
 

NomarsFool

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The one who really seems like they are getting screwed here is KD, right? Supposedly, you and your buddy decide to go somewhere together and he up and flakes out on you. He's stuck for 2 more years, right, and can they really even trade him anywhere?
 

Cellar-Door

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The one who really seems like they are getting screwed here is KD, right? Supposedly, you and your buddy decide to go somewhere together and he up and flakes out on you. He's stuck for 2 more years, right, and can they really even trade him anywhere?
If KD were available there would be plenty of good offers
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I think we can assume that Durant is likely not coming back. I think the Lakers trade is quite plausible since the other contenders might not want to chance a rental.
The reports I am hearing (mentioned on the Cs broadcast as well) is that KD wants to come back for a couple of games before the ASB. He's going to be back.
 

The Social Chair

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The Pelicans could make a monster offer for KD. Bill Simmons mentioned this in his column today.

The Warriors war chest isn't as appealing as it was last summer but they may be interested as well. Phoenix is in play if the Nets like Ayton.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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ESPN Trade machine says that KI and Simmons for Trae and Collins works. Who says yes? :)

ESPN Trade machine also says that ATL would be 11 wins worse by making this trade, BRK would be 1 win better.
 

gammoseditor

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The Nets presumably already know what teams would offer for Durant. They shopped him before the season and didn’t like the offers then. I don’t see why they would change substantially.
 

kazuneko

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This is a good note on why Kyrie wants a trade (assuming he really does and this isn't posturing for extension talks)
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1621636899520520195?t=Ljyj0-KE4pDhOF0H4Emjyg&s=19


Nobody is likely to easily have cap to max him except HOU. Everyone else would have to strip down to nothing to get close.
Basically, he’s trying to get to LA so that they can resign him for the max. Can’t imagine any other team (that would interest him) would offer him that, though I’m not even certain LA would.
If he’s really just posturing with Brooklyn he clearly doesn’t understand why they don’t want to extend him. This crap is the very reason he hasn’t already been extended..
 

kazuneko

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ESPN Trade machine says that KI and Simmons for Trae and Collins works. Who says yes? :)

ESPN Trade machine also says that ATL would be 11 wins worse by making this trade, BRK would be 1 win better.
And ESPN trade machine isn’t even able to factor in the psychiatric pathology of the two Nets heading to Atlanta…lol
No way Atlanta would consider that.
 

Reverend

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Basically, he’s trying to get to LA so that they can resign him for the max. Can’t imagine any other team (that would interest him) would offer him that, though I’m not even certain LA would.
If he’s really just posturing with Brooklyn he clearly doesn’t understand why they don’t want to extend him. This crap is the very reason he hasn’t already been extended..
Din’t know the terms, but they offered him am extension. The offer “was not well received,” per reporting.
 

bigq

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Basically, he’s trying to get to LA so that they can resign him for the max. Can’t imagine any other team (that would interest him) would offer him that, though I’m not even certain LA would.
If he’s really just posturing with Brooklyn he clearly doesn’t understand why they don’t want to extend him. This crap is the very reason he hasn’t already been extended..
Can you imagine signing that asshat to a max contract? He can still score but he can't play defense for shit and he is a clubhouse cancer. His game is not going to age well as he moves into his 30s. Any team that signs him to a max contract has my simultaneous sympathy and derision.
 

nighthob

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I think we all underestimate how important it is for a team's best players not to be fucked in the head, and just .... play. For all the criticisms leveled at JT, JB or Marcus or Al or Grant.....they are all about what they do on the floor. Iso, handle, shoot too much, etc etc.
I am so grateful that Boston has Horford and Smart as their heart & soul. Marcus's critics like to say he's injury prone, but I always say that he's "plays every fucking game like it's game 7 of the finals" prone. The Demon Kyzuzu is obviously the NBA's Alpha Flake and I was happy the day he walked out the door. I wonder if Brookly regrets not taking a first to make that deal a sign & trade?
Irving for White, Gallinari, Pritchard, Kornet, and Jackson works.

Get it done Theo!
Why do you hate the Celtics?

Makes more sense than getting Westbrook, and I have the nagging suspicion that Jimmy Butler would be strangling Irving, Homer-Bart style,.
Watching the Demon Kyzuzu destroy the Heat would be the cherry atop the Irving Sundae that's been the '23 season. The only way to make it better is if they trade away a #1 to someone else as part of their on the fly retool and the pick turn into Victor Wembanyama.