Kraft One-Ups Brady’s Departure

Mooch

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Wait a minute. I haven't read this thread closely, but do you have any support for the "free to leave at any point" and "competitive application process"?

Maybe you are referring to the workers at the Orchids of Asia - who to my knowledge have not been implicated in the human trafficking component - but certainly the majority of these workers are not "free to leave".

Here's an article on the human trafficking component in these Asian massage parlors: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/02/us/massage-parlors-human-trafficking.html. And it's not just massage parlors. There have been stories of restaurants that essentially do the same thing: find workers from China; hold their passports; charge them exorbitant rates for things like places to stay, transportation, work clothes, etc., and basically make them indentured servants. And the workers are often rotated from place to place to ensure their cooperation.
I’ve often wondered if some dry cleaners do the same things. There’s always a revolving door of Chinese women working there, none for longer than 6 months or so.
 

Leather

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Jul 18, 2005
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If the women at the “spa” were coerced/forced/trafficked how is it even a little OK to release the tape of a woman being sexually victimized? Or are the women also perpetrators so it’s fine?
It’s commom for law enforcement to selectively redact identities in a video.
 

snowmanny

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It’s commom for law enforcement to selectively redact identities in a video.
Oh. I'm sure if one of my relatives was sexually assaulted on video she and I would be fine with the tape going out as long as her face was blurred.

The prosecution of this case isn't going to make the world safer or nicer but hey, they caught a big fish and they want to talk about it as loudly as they can for as long as they can to as many people as they can.
 

Leather

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Oh. I'm sure if one of my relatives was sexually assaulted on video she and I would be fine with the tape going out as long as her face was blurred.

The prosecution of this case isn't going to make the world safer or nicer but hey, they caught a big fish and they want to talk about it as loudly as they can for as long as they can to as many people as they can.
It doesn’t matter what you or even the victim’s family think, and the implications are beyond this particular case and edge into the public’s interest in transparency.

If law enforcement data can be redacted such that the identity of victims and at-risk witnesses is sufficiently obscured, there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be available through a public records request. Reporters get that sort of stuff all the time. It’s a big reason why police body cams are a hot debate topic. Now, whether the PD should proactively broadcast it is another question, but one of tact, not law.
 

Myt1

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Oh. I'm sure if one of my relatives was sexually assaulted on video she and I would be fine with the tape going out as long as her face was blurred.

The prosecution of this case isn't going to make the world safer or nicer but hey, they caught a big fish and they want to talk about it as loudly as they can for as long as they can to as many people as they can.
Is there any evidence that either of these women were sexually assaulted on video?
 

snowmanny

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Is there any evidence that either of these women were sexually assaulted on video?
HahahaNo.

But the immediate report on the day of the arrest was that Kraft was arrested as part of a "6-mo investigation (that) revealed human traffickers were luring vulnerable girls to massage parlors in FL, where they were coerced into working as prostitutes." (Post #103) So they were portrayed as victims.

I'm questioning the initial narrative, which was that the motivation behind all this was about protecting these women.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Can’t this be used as evidence that he acknowledges guilt? I’m sure his lawyers know the law much better than I do. Perhaps they decided it’s vague enough that it cannot be known exactly what he is apologizing for.
I suspect the fact that he’s issued this means he’s reached a deal, though I guess it’s sufficiently vague as to what he’s sorry for that I don't think it would be particularly helpful to the prosecution in court.
 

dcmissle

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I am impressed how many 13 year olds post here.
Maybe the message was, when Kraft acts like a mature, responsible adult, so will we?

He is facing no criminal jeopardy of any real consequence. The focus has been on reputational injury and collateral NFL consequences. With the apology, maybe he’s starting to own this and will do his reputation some good.
 

Myt1

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HahahaNo.

But the immediate report on the day of the arrest was that Kraft was arrested as part of a "6-mo investigation (that) revealed human traffickers were luring vulnerable girls to massage parlors in FL, where they were coerced into working as prostitutes." (Post #103) So they were portrayed as victims.

I'm questioning the initial narrative, which was that the motivation behind all this was about protecting these women.
This is one video, not the broader investigation.

Threads like this are why people shouldn’t watch Law & Order.
 

djbayko

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I think most people recognize (now) that the trafficking was in relation to the larger investigation, encompassing other businesses outside of this one. The point is that it's pretty convenience law enforcement forgot to make that distinction when they proudly claimed their celebrity prize catch.

Edit: I'd also add that it's this type of behavior which makes me skeptical of the whole investigation. Because I've seen this pattern many times - law enforcement claims trafficking when it really just turns out to be consensual prostitution. For the record, I'm not saying trafficking it isn't a problem - only that we cannot believe which cases are true based on press releases alone.
 
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Myt1

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To people who aren’t terribly worried about defending the honor of an old guy who was paying for a handy in a strip mall because of the football team he owns, I mean.
 

Myt1

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He wasn’t charged with anything have to do with trafficking. I’d say they were pretty damn explicit, right from the beginning, on what they had him on.
 

snowmanny

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Nobody in here is arguing with anything you are saying so you should feel free to declare yourself the winner.
 

djbayko

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He wasn’t charged with anything have to do with trafficking. I’d say they were pretty damn explicit, right from the beginning, on what they had him on.
Of course he isn't. Even if those women were trafficked, he wouldn't be charged with trafficking. You know that.
 

Myt1

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Nobody in here is arguing with anything you are saying so you should feel free to declare yourself the winner.
Maybe you could enlighten me as to what the real motivation of the investigation was, given that protecting victims of trafficking was just a “narrative.”
 

Myt1

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I think most people recognize (now) that the trafficking was in relation to the larger investigation, encompassing other businesses outside of this one. The point is that it's pretty convenience law enforcement forgot to make that distinction when they proudly claimed their celebrity prize catch.

Edit: I'd also add that it's this type of behavior which makes me skeptical of the whole investigation. Because I've seen this pattern many times - law enforcement claims trafficking when it really just turns out to be consensual prostitution. For the record, I'm not saying trafficking it isn't a problem - only that we cannot believe which cases are true based on press releases alone.
In what other instances have you seen this pattern?
 

djbayko

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In what other instances have you seen this pattern?
It's virtually impossible for me to dig them up for you months and years after the fact. There was not way for me to know at the time that I would need them to justify a position in a Patriots forum. Take that as you wish.
 

snowmanny

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Maybe you could enlighten me as to what the real motivation of the investigation was, given that protecting victims of trafficking was just a “narrative.”
Well, they were "pretty damn explicit" with what charges they came up with, and they seem very pleased with this outcome, so perhaps they feel they've accomplished something good. Who knows what they were thinking at each step along the way?.

You didn't say this, but the notion that Kraft should be severely punished by the league
beyond the parameters of the law because this is a "trafficking" case and because any pay for sex act is de facto victimizing women has me a bit rankled. Not that he isn't responsible for this mess; his behavior was ridiculous.

Enjoy the evening.
 

Marciano490

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Fuck that dude for invoking Myra’s memory when he was cheating on her as she died and has been frolicking with women 1/3 his age and hookers since. That’s almost as grimy as the mall handjob.
 

YTF

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Can’t this be used as evidence that he acknowledges guilt? I’m sure his lawyers know the law much better than I do. Perhaps they decided it’s vague enough that it cannot be known exactly what he is apologizing for.
I wondered the same thing initially, but I do think it's vague enough so that if pressed Kraft might simply offer that he's sorry that he put himself in a situation that was not only a potential embarrassment to himself, but also to his family, the Patriots organization and their fans. I did find it an odd choice of words that he wishes to be judged by his actions because that's pretty much how he's being judged.
 

DukeSox

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Fuck that dude for invoking Myra’s memory when he was cheating on her as she died and has been frolicking with women 1/3 his age and hookers since. That’s almost as grimy as the mall handjob.
We all grieve in different ways.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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Fuck that dude for invoking Myra’s memory when he was cheating on her as she died and has been frolicking with women 1/3 his age and hookers since. That’s almost as grimy as the mall handjob.
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but do we know for a fact that Myra had a problem with his philandering? If you remove her disdain for it, if she was perfectly cool with him finding physical release somewhere else does that change your view? Is it at all possible that his statements invoking Myra in his apology could be genuine? His relationship with his wife and his integration into Rand-Whitney reads like a manual on power moves for couples (tm).

Anecdotally, my grandfather had a big-time professional axe to grind with Robert Kraft, and he's rarely been talked about positively in my family outside of the success of his football franchise, so I want it to be known that I'm not leaping to defend this guy and his questionable behavior.

In any case he acted boorishly, broke the law, and deserves the scrutiny as a public figure.
 

Ale Xander

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I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but do we know for a fact that Myra had a problem with his philandering? If you remove her disdain for it, if she was perfectly cool with him finding physical release somewhere else does that change your view? Is it at all possible that his statements invoking Myra in his apology could be genuine? His relationship with his wife and his integration into Rand-Whitney reads like a manual on power moves for couples (tm).

Anecdotally, my grandfather had a big-time professional axe to grind with Robert Kraft, and he's rarely been talked about positively in my family outside of the success of his football franchise, so I want it to be known that I'm not leaping to defend this guy and his questionable behavior.

In any case he acted boorishly, broke the law, and deserves the scrutiny as a public figure.
Cmon spill the beans.
 

LoweTek

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And restaurants.
One of the largest suspected trafficking victims is finger nail technicians. The linked article connects the activity in nail salons to massage establishments suggesting the same criminals use the nail salons to launder money coming out of the massage businesses. It quotes a source with knowledge of the business as stating it takes approximately six nail salons to launder money for one massage place actively engaging in prostitution. It explains why there are so many nail salons around.

I had the opportunity this past weekend to chat further with my acquaintance in the massage business. She again said there is very little trafficking and the girls know what they are getting into. They do it for the money to escape poverty and poor living conditions. After a few years, assuming they minimize expenses, they are very wealthy compared to their peers back in China or South Korea. Some return to their country of origin and live very well. She said the biggest problem is they pay five figures to brokers to get them into the US legally with proper papers, licenses, etc. Many incur debt to the brokers which can take years to repay. She reiterated the women sleep in the spas to save money so they can pay their immigration broker debt or simply to keep expenses low.

Still not terribly reassuring nor very savory but a bit less harsh than forced slavery of some kind, which I am sure also happens in the massage business just not with the frequency often implied by law enforcement, AGs, DAs, etc.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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If the other owners are making the decision on Kraft, and Goodell isn't, I'm annoyed in all directions. (In other words, I don't know that I'd want Goodell to be making the decision, but it seems dysfunctional and stupid for him NOT to make it so egomaniacal billionaires can try to exact revenge on Kraft just because they can't get it done.) I hate this humiliation of a league and refuse to stop watching.
 

dcmissle

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Why should the Kraft discipline be handled any differently process wise from the Irsay discipline?