Kobe Killed in Helicopter Crash

Cesar Crespo

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And I think you're right and what you're saying is powerful. I can't argue with a single thing here so if for the sake of social progression, we (I) have to take a hard stance here and in all cases, I'm on board. But.....we aren't taught not to forgive, right? Are we allowed to look at the whole picture beyond the single action? I'm not asking rhetorical questions, I'm asking them because what happens when you have cognitive dissonance here? I both believe that rape is as disgraceful a thing as a person could do and that all people can be rehabilitated and forgiven if they deserve it. So, you tell me, where should I fall here? I mean, my brain doesn't dictate my emotions. I'm sad that Kobe is dead. I'm sad that a father and his daughter leave behind a family who loved them.
I think your posts are fine. I don't think anyone is telling you not to forgive him, they are just making sure no one forgets. I'm sure Jared Fogle's parents/family/friends are probably more understanding and forgiving of Kobe Bryant than the average person.
 

amfox1

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Haven't gone back through the thread, but it is now being reported that Orange Coast (Calif.) CC head baseball coach John Altobelli and his daughter were two of the other casualties of the accident.
 

crow216

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Debris field, fire and steep terrain slowed down the rescue effort. Remains still there and not recovered by coroner's office.

There were 8 passengers + the pilot.
 

bosockboy

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Haven't gone back through the thread, but it is now being reported that Orange Coast (Calif.) CC head baseball coach John Altobelli and his daughter were two of the other casualties of the accident.
Haven't gone back through the thread, but it is now being reported that Orange Coast (Calif.) CC head baseball coach John Altobelli and his daughter were two of the other casualties of the accident.
Curious if he’s Joe’s son.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I think part of the arguing on this thread stems from the fact that people are mourning this in different ways, all of which seem fair.

Some are mourning the death of some part of their childhood or sports fandom.

Some are reminded how fragile life is bc these superstar athletes are supposed to be invincible.

Obviously, it’s also sad that a father and husband and daughter are dead, far too early.

And clearly someone who has been victimized by sexual assault can’t fathom how anyone can mourn the guy’s death.

Not sure why any of these views deserves an ad hominem attack.
I didn’t mean it as an ad hominem attack, I just don’t personally get it, but whatever. People can feel however they want about this, I was just trying to say how i react to these kinds of things. I have also been accused more than a few times of having a cold, cold heart so i accept that I may view stuff like this a bit differently than others.
 

bosockboy

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I also think this will spur a lot more discussion about celebrities flying small aircraft. Maybe it happens regardless but why not have an experienced pilot...or sit in a car service automobile for 60-80 mins. Just seems so avoidable.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I also think this will spur a lot more discussion about celebrities flying small aircraft. Maybe it happens regardless but why not have an experienced pilot...or sit in a car service automobile for 60-80 mins. Just seems so avoidable.
Serious question but are they any less safe than cars?
 

E5 Yaz

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I also think this will spur a lot more discussion about celebrities flying small aircraft. Maybe it happens regardless but why not have an experienced pilot...or sit in a car service automobile for 60-80 mins. Just seems so avoidable.
Where has it been confirmed that Kobe was piloting the helicopter?
 

snowmanny

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I also think this will spur a lot more discussion about celebrities flying small aircraft. Maybe it happens regardless but why not have an experienced pilot...or sit in a car service automobile for 60-80 mins. Just seems so avoidable.
I thought there was a pilot not him
 

Van Everyman

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I actually kind of think it’s awesome Kobe’s rape is being discussed and argued over here. While I understand those who would prefer to let it lie, it’s a good thing there are a lot of people who refuse to let this part of his legacy be a footnote, the way it would’ve been even just a decade ago. It wasn’t and shouldn’t be. And it’s why I’m sad for his family and the game of basketball but not him.

Now that that’s out of the way, my favorite Kobe moment was when he was asked by Jackie MacMullen about the Celtics shopping Rondo in 2013:

"You don't want Rondo? Send him my way. I love everything about him. Everything. I love his attitude, I love his chippiness, his edge, his intellect, his know-it-allness. All of it. That's what makes championship players.What guard have you seen at his size that will get you 18 assists, 17 boards and 20 points all in one game? That's unheard of. I love that kid. I always make a point of talking to him during All-Star (Weekend). He's one of my favorites."
For me, that quote nailed why I liked Kobe the player.
 

drbretto

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I want to go on record as saying I am listening. I really don't have a problem with luckysox' posts or the topic being up. It's really just upset this has to be a team a team b thing. The topic was inevitable, I really don't have a problem with it at all. It's the rhetoric and the talking-overs. Kobe was a complicated person and this news is shocking and brings up complicated emotions in everyone.

I can assure you, no one has forgotten. I don't separate him from it. I think it every time I see his name or face. I'm not a basketball fan, I wasn't a Kobe fan. I recognized the greatness, but I have zero stake in his legacy and have no interest in defending him about anything. I feel like most people think of Kobe this way. I just want to see people not assume the worst of each other, at least here. I apologize for my part.
 

WalletTrack

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<Tomorrowland>
"Don't count the days, make the days count"-Muhammad Ali

The two kids didn't get many days but in that moment they weren't alone. They were with their dads.
Trying to see this through a dad lens.
Doesn't mean being blind to Bryant's history.

Also. The Rev's left?
 

HomeRunBaker

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There's a bit of a difference between not living such a wonderful life and rape. I've done some pretty shitty things in my life but none of them come close to rape.

We are talking about RAPE. Does it matter if it was 5 months ago or 20 years ago?
Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.

An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today, right now? If you don’t feel this person was revered simply watch the Grammys tonight and Tuesday nights Lakers game since some fail to recognize how he positively affected so many lives. Pathetic.
 

canderson

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This thread is an absolute rollercoaster. Team @luckysox and @Marciano490 all the way.

I fell out of love for the nba during the Lakers run from 99-02 so while I recognized his greatness didn’t watch him too often. Him dying this way is a massive loss.

And his life - the very good and very bad - are definitely free game.
Several families‘ lives were ripped apart today. That’s the biggest tragedy.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.
An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today. Pathetic.
So if he only raped one woman it's ok? How many women does someone have to rape before it's bad? It was proven true, he admitted to it.
 

fletcherpost

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Wait Rev quit? When and where did that happen?
Backwash is the place to go. He started a thread, made a statement. And he left. With dignity. And yes he is very much missed and we hope for his return, some way down the crazy river.
 

The Allented Mr Ripley

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Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.

An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today. If you don’t feel this person was revered simply watch the Grammys tonight and Tuesday nights Lakers game since some fail to recognize how he positively affected so many lives. Pathetic.
Egads.
 

TSC

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Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.

An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today. If you don’t feel this person was revered simply watch the Grammys tonight and Tuesday nights Lakers game since some fail to recognize how he positively affected so many lives. Pathetic.
He admitted it.

 

EvilEmpire

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Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.

An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today, right now? If you don’t feel this person was revered simply watch the Grammys tonight and Tuesday nights Lakers game since some fail to recognize how he positively affected so many lives. Pathetic.
For some of us, it is easier to care more about the trauma of some of our members than the fandom of others.
 

HomeRunBaker

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So if he only raped one woman it's ok? How many women does someone have to rape before it's bad? It was proven true, he admitted to it.
Raped or accused? Seems like some here already know the answer. Sure hope none of you guys are ever on a jury. Holy shit this place sucks sometimes.
 

Dehere

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Has anyone here ever been on a helicopter that could seat more than six adult passengers? I haven’t but my experience is admittedly limited.
 

YTF

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Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.

An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today, right now? If you don’t feel this person was revered simply watch the Grammys tonight and Tuesday nights Lakers game since some fail to recognize how he positively affected so many lives. Pathetic.
That was far from a home run Baker.
 

fletcherpost

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Oh Jesus F guys. This isn’t Bill Cosby or Spacey or someone who had a clear trail to being vicious criminals!! This is ONE accusation that was not even proven to be true.

An American hero who has helped thousands with his charity work just passed away today along with his 13-he old daughter and some here want to put him on trial today. If you don’t feel this person was revered simply watch the Grammys tonight and Tuesday nights Lakers game since some fail to recognize how he positively affected so many lives. Pathetic.

I posted a link to an article upthread. I'm going to spoiler this. Have a read and tell me what you think. At the very least this discussion is 100% fair game. And yes, people can praise his sporting achievements all day. But as Burns said, a mans a man for a that.

During the preliminary hearing, Detective Winters testified that the accuser had been examined the day after the alleged assault by Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners (SANE) at the Valley View Hospital in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

“[The nurse] stated that there were several lacerations to the victim’s posterior fourchette or vaginal area, and two of those lacerations were approximately one centimeter in length,” testified Det. Winters. “And there were many, I believe, 2 millimeter lacerations. Too many to count… [The nurse] stated that the injuries were consistent with penetrating genital trauma. That it’s not consistent with consensual sex.”

Detective Winters further stated that the nurse told him the vaginal injuries had most likely occurred within “24 hours,” and that the accuser had “a small bruise on her left jaw line.” Also, that examiners had found “blood excretions” on Bryant’s T-shirt “to about the waistline.” The blood, testified Det. Winters, had “the same DNA profile as the victim in this case.”