Kemba Walker to Boston

Light-Tower-Power

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Maybe it is unfair to Kyrie, but couldn't it be seen as a slight against him? Kyrie has always been considered one of the most TALENTED guys in the league, and you would think a guy so gifted would improve during his prime seasons. Yet, he is probably in the 10-15 range as far as top players in the league. I'm not sure if on a pure talent basis, Irving isn't any less talented than Damian Lillard or even James Harden, yet those guys make improvements year-to-year and certainly Harden is on a completely different level than Irving when it comes to production.

That to me, is indicative of Kyrie on the whole. Even though he is a very good player, his talent is so great that he ends up being somewhat of a disappointment despite putting up very good numbers. You even (correctly) said that Kyrie is viewed as being superior to Walker because people have the impression that he can kick it up a gear when he gets to the playoffs; isn't that kind of also saying that he isn't trying that hard during the regular season? Not to delve into sports talk radio territory, but I don't know if Kyrie has that extra bit of hustle and heart that turns talented players into great players. I don't know if the game means as much to him as it does to Lillard, Harden, Walker, etc.
But only if he wants to as we saw this past season which is why I hate that narrative. I'm fairly confident Kemba won't be calling for himself to switch onto Giannis if we play Milwaukee in the playoffs.
 

TripleOT

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Lazy vs Crazy

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Official. As part of the S&T we are swapping seconds. We're getting the worse of the two NY teams' next year and the pick going to Charlotte is protected, no details on how much.

Kemba's wearing 8 so people can recycle their old jerseys.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don't fully follow the draft pick swap here--do we think that ultimately is a 'real' second from Charlotte for a fake protected second from Boston?

No trade exception results here, right?
 

mcpickl

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Official. As part of the S&T we are swapping seconds. We're getting the worse of the two NY teams' next year and the pick going to Charlotte is protected, no details on how much.

Kemba's wearing 8 so people can recycle their old jerseys.
Dang.

Felt it was pretty likely the Celtics would be able to stuff Yabusele into this trade.

A whiff by me.

This feels close to just doing Rozier a favor.
 

Jimbodandy

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Dang.

Felt it was pretty likely the Celtics would be able to stuff Yabusele into this trade.

A whiff by me.

This feels close to just doing Rozier a favor.
You would have looked like a fortune teller if you got it right, since it wasn't reported anywhere. And though I didn't see the game, from the thread it sounds like Yabu was reinforcing everything that you said about him in stark contrast to some nice youth performances.
 

lovegtm

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...
This feels close to just doing Rozier a favor.
Partly doing Rozier a favor, but my guess is that the Celtics wanted the optionality to do the full S&T with Kyrie, and needed to lock down the Charlotte side of the piece. They probably told them something like "look, you're getting Rozier at the price you want, you're not going to pay extra, just let us see if we can do this Nets thing, and if not, you still get Rozier for cheap." (cheap in terms of draft assets lol)

Locking down that side was critical, because otherwise Rozier and his agent wouldn't have agreed to give the Celtics time to see how things played out--they would have gone and just signed an offer sheet with Phoenix while the Suns still had cap room.

Then, when Al left and they didn't want to pay Brooklyn for the Kyrie S&T anymore (or Brooklyn wouldn't cooperate), the Celtics went ahead and consummated the Charlotte deal on its own as agreed.
 

mcpickl

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Partly doing Rozier a favor, but my guess is that the Celtics wanted the optionality to do the full S&T with Kyrie, and needed to lock down the Charlotte side of the piece. They probably told them something like "look, you're getting Rozier at the price you want, you're not going to pay extra, just let us see if we can do this Nets thing, and if not, you still get Rozier for cheap." (cheap in terms of draft assets lol)

Locking down that side was critical, because otherwise Rozier and his agent wouldn't have agreed to give the Celtics time to see how things played out--they would have gone and just signed an offer sheet with Phoenix while the Suns still had cap room.

Then, when Al left and they didn't want to pay Brooklyn for the Kyrie S&T anymore (or Brooklyn wouldn't cooperate), the Celtics went ahead and consummated the Charlotte deal on its own as agreed.
I'm sure they did, don't know why that would discount the draft assets for Charlotte though.

Whether Brooklyn(or Philly) was involved in a 3 way trade, or it was just the straight trade with Charlotte, the return is assets should've been the same.

I doubt team Rozier gave Boston any extra time for anything. Charlotte was willing to vastly overpay him, so that's where he was going. Unless his agent is awful. I'm sure he knew there weren't better contracts out there for Rozier when they agreed with Charlotte.
 

lovegtm

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I'm sure they did, don't know why that would discount the draft assets for Charlotte though.

Whether Brooklyn(or Philly) was involved in a 3 way trade, or it was just the straight trade with Charlotte, the return is assets should've been the same.

I doubt team Rozier gave Boston any extra time for anything. Charlotte was willing to vastly overpay him, so that's where he was going. Unless his agent is awful. I'm sure he knew there weren't better contracts out there for Rozier when they agreed with Charlotte.
Charlotte needed to do it as a S&T, since they're over the cap. So if the Celtics weren't going to be involved, it wasn't obvious to Rozier that the deal was going to get done. Charlotte would have had to give up a lot of assets to clear space, at which point they probably would have said "fuck it."

From the Celtics point of view, the goal was to keep Rozier from signing an offer sheet somewhere else, because that would foreclose S&T options. In order to keep him from doing that, they had to have a handshake agreement with Charlotte that the deal would get done with minimal asset outlay on Charlotte's part. If they don't do that, then Charlotte has no realistic way to pay Rozier his ridiculous contract, and that 3/58 is purely theoretical. At that point, Rozier's agent would go shopping him immediately, and the Celtics lose the optionality of the Brooklyn S&T if that turns out to be good for both parties on July 3rd or whatever.

The two key variables here are
1. The Celtics wanted the no-cost option to potentially negotiate a Kyrie or Al S&T
2. The Hornets were over the cap
 

mcpickl

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Charlotte needed to do it as a S&T, since they're over the cap. So if the Celtics weren't going to be involved, it wasn't obvious to Rozier that the deal was going to get done. Charlotte would have had to give up a lot of assets to clear space, at which point they probably would have said "fuck it."
Right, which is why I'm surprised the return for Boston was near zero.

Rozier got what he wanted, massively overpaid.
Charlotte got what they wanted, their starting point guard which they wouldn't have been able to get without dealing with Boston.
Boston got tiny draft compensation.

People on this board were worried Brooklyn was asking for the Memphis pick for sending out nothing, just to allow Boston to operate as an over the cap team.
Boston got a second, and gave up a protected second., to send Charlotte a guy they wanted that they couldn't get on their own as an over the cap team.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Right, which is why I'm surprised the return for Boston was near zero.

Rozier got what he wanted, massively overpaid.
Charlotte got what they wanted, their starting point guard which they wouldn't have been able to get without dealing with Boston.
Boston got tiny draft compensation.

People on this board were worried Brooklyn was asking for the Memphis pick for sending out nothing, just to allow Boston to operate as an over the cap team.
Boston got a second, and gave up a protected second., to send Charlotte a guy they wanted that they couldn't get on their own as an over the cap team.
As others have said it seems fairly obvious that the Rozier S&T was agreed to at a time when the Celtics thought doing so might potentially allow them to stay over the cap and retain the full MLE and other exceptions.

That obviously didn’t end up happening, but at that point it was probably too late to unwind the Rozier trade and there was no real reason the Celtics would want to do so in any event. At minimum, this becomes them doing a favor to a departing free agent which might have some small benefit going forward.
 

lovegtm

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Right, which is why I'm surprised the return for Boston was near zero.

Rozier got what he wanted, massively overpaid.
Charlotte got what they wanted, their starting point guard which they wouldn't have been able to get without dealing with Boston.
Boston got tiny draft compensation.

People on this board were worried Brooklyn was asking for the Memphis pick for sending out nothing, just to allow Boston to operate as an over the cap team.
Boston got a second, and gave up a protected second., to send Charlotte a guy they wanted that they couldn't get on their own as an over the cap team.
Boston got a few extra days to decide whether to execute the S&T with Brooklyn. That's important if you are deciding whether to bring Horford back. They don't get that if Charlotte has to give up assets to sign Rozier.

The difference in the Brooklyn vs Charlotte scenario is that Brooklyn and Boston are going to be direct competitors for the next few years, while the Hornets are most definitely not. So the Celtics don't care if Charlotte gets their guy, whereas Brooklyn most definitely cares if the Celtics get the MLE and the ability to sign Marcus Morris and use him as filler.
 

mcpickl

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Boston got a few extra days to decide whether to execute the S&T with Brooklyn. That's important if you are deciding whether to bring Horford back. They don't get that if Charlotte has to give up assets to sign Rozier.

The difference in the Brooklyn vs Charlotte scenario is that Brooklyn and Boston are going to be direct competitors for the next few years, while the Hornets are most definitely not. So the Celtics don't care if Charlotte gets their guy, whereas Brooklyn most definitely cares if the Celtics get the MLE and the ability to sign Marcus Morris and use him as filler.
Again, I don't understand this.

Whether Brooklyn gets involved in this deal or not, it does not affect Charlotte. Why would they be paying less because Boston might be able to make a deal on their end that does not affect Charlotte at all?

It's not like Charlotte is thinking, eh we don't really want Rozier. They wanted him. Boston was the only team that could make that happen. It's not like Boston had no leverage just because they might want to try to make it a 3 way deal.

Like, if I'm willing to pay $5 for something, whether the person I'm bartering with is able to spin that $5 into something more valuable somewhere else or just pockets the $5 should have no impact on me. It's still worth $5 to me.
 

lovegtm

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Again, I don't understand this.

Whether Brooklyn gets involved in this deal or not, it does not affect Charlotte. Why would they be paying less because Boston might be able to make a deal on their end that does not affect Charlotte at all?

It's not like Charlotte is thinking, eh we don't really want Rozier. They wanted him. Boston was the only team that could make that happen. It's not like Boston had no leverage just because they might want to try to make it a 3 way deal.

Like, if I'm willing to pay $5 for something, whether the person I'm bartering with is able to spin that $5 into something more valuable somewhere else or just pockets the $5 should have no impact on me. It's still worth $5 to me.
It’s easier if you think of the transaction as Boston paying Charlotte for the option to execute a S&T with Brooklyn. People pay money/assets for optionality all the time, so I’m not sure why this is hard to grok.

It’s likely that Charlotte wanted Rozier, but not enough to part with significant draft assets as opposed to money. If they had to do that, they likely walk.
 

mcpickl

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It’s easier if you think of the transaction as Boston paying Charlotte for the option to execute a S&T with Brooklyn. People pay money/assets for optionality all the time, so I’m not sure why this is hard to grok.

It’s likely that Charlotte wanted Rozier, but not enough to part with significant draft assets as opposed to money. If they had to do that, they likely walk.
Because you're only thinking of it from the Boston side I guess.

Let me ask it this way, what do you think Boston would have had to give Brooklyn to agree to a sign and trade for Kyrie, when Brooklyn could just sign Kyrie and not involve Boston?

Now, shouldn't Charlotte pay a higher price in a sign and trade for Rozier than that? Since Charlotte did not have the ability to just sign Rozier on their own? I get we don't think that highly of Rozier, but Charlotte clearly did because they gave his an absurd contract. And they had no other option to sign a point guard for even half the price they gave Rozier.

If you think Boston would've had to give up more assets, or even similar assets, to Brooklyn than what Boston received from Charlotte, I just don't get it. Makes zero sense to me.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Now, shouldn't Charlotte pay a higher price in a sign and trade for Rozier than that?
You’re ignoring lovegtm’s point about how Charlotte likely walks if the Celtics push for more assets. It’s not that hard to imagine Danny pushing Charlotte to also take Yabu’s contract, or throw in some more picks, but Charlotte saying “nope, we’ll do a clean sign and trade but not much more than that - if you want more you’re out of luck, we don’t want Rozier THAT badly.”

Faced with that position, Boston could have either relented (which they did) or scuttled the deal, which would have removed the optionality for staying over the cap Boston clearly valued at that point in time.

Edit: I guess the real difference of opinion is how badly Charlotte wanted Rozier and thus how much the Celtics has the Hornets over a barrel. But I think the answer is revealed by what actually happened - if the Celtics thought they could have extracted more from Charlotte before walking away, they presumably would have done so.
 

mcpickl

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You’re ignoring lovegtm’s point about how Charlotte likely walks if the Celtics push for more assets. It’s not that hard to imagine Danny pushing Charlotte to also take Yabu’s contract, or throw in some more picks, but Charlotte saying “nope, we’ll do a clean sign and trade but not much more than that - if you want more you’re out of luck, we don’t want Rozier THAT badly.”

Faced with that position, Boston could have either relented (which they did) or scuttled the deal, which would have removed the optionality for staying over the cap Boston clearly valued at that point in time.
No. I addressed it. I said this in the post right above yours.

I get we don't think that highly of Rozier, but Charlotte clearly did because they gave his an absurd contract. And they had no other option to sign a point guard for even half the price they gave Rozier.

I don't believe Charlotte likely walks away. Again, you're both giving Boston zero leverage in this when Charlotte was the team who needed the sign and trade more.

Charlotte got the guy they wanted, who they could not get any other way.
Boston got the possibility of turning this into a three way, a possibility that they still would've had to pay Brooklyn for to turn into reality.

I don't see how that gives Charlotte more leverage to walk away.

EDIT: I guess no one wants to answer What do you think Boston would have had to give Brooklyn to agree to a sign and trade for Kyrie, when Brooklyn could just sign Kyrie and not involve Boston? And why Charlotte would have to pay what was certainly less than that to get Rozier when they didn't have the cap space to get him on their own?

I give up, I guess Ainge roasted Charlotte on this sign and trade. Good job Danny!
 
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Cellar-Door

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The Celtics got very little because what they gave up was very little, there were advantages for the Celtics to holding open the possibility of getting over the cap, so they agreed to a deal with a S&T and getting a minor asset. Renegotiating afterwards isn't something that makes sense because it burns a relationship for no gain.


If Boston backs out of the S&T, all that happens is Charlotte makes the cap room another way, either by stretching a current deal, or paying someone else the 2nd to eat a contract.


Also.... the entire theory is based on the idea that the Celtics want to do something (dump Yabu's salary) that they have taken many many actions over the last several months to make clear they have no interest in doing, they could have dumped him in the PHX trade if they wanted, they could have declined his option, etc. They don't want to dump him.
 

lovegtm

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No. I addressed it. I said this in the post right above yours.

I get we don't think that highly of Rozier, but Charlotte clearly did because they gave his an absurd contract. And they had no other option to sign a point guard for even half the price they gave Rozier.

I don't believe Charlotte likely walks away. Again, you're both giving Boston zero leverage in this when Charlotte was the team who needed the sign and trade more.

Charlotte got the guy they wanted, who they could not get any other way.
Boston got the possibility of turning this into a three way, a possibility that they still would've had to pay Brooklyn for to turn into reality.

I don't see how that gives Charlotte more leverage to walk away.
NBA teams value money and picks quite differently, particularly when they’re about to go into a rebuilding phase. The Hornets probably feel like Rozier is a FA/lottery ticket who can potentially pop and become an asset, but if you give up significant picks for him, you’re losing other lottery tickets and chances to get those assets.

The Celtics clearly made the evaluation that if they pushed for more compensation from Charlotte, the Hornets would walk. Did they calculate correctly? We’ll never know, but it’s not crazy to think they were close to Charlotte’s walk-away point.

Your assumption seems to be that if a team wants a player for a lot of money, they’ll also be willing to give up picks/players for him. That’s likely a poor assumption in Charlotte’s case. The play there seems to be:
1. start the process of selling off guys on the team
2. wait for bad contracts to come off the books
3. tank
4. let Rozier and others under contract put up big numbers and see if you can move them.

If that’s the plan (and it’s an obvious one from Charlotte’s POV), it makes a lot of sense to overpay Rozier, but not be willing to give up good picks, or take on salary like Yabu without extra comp from Boston.
 

mcpickl

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The Celtics got very little because what they gave up was very little, there were advantages for the Celtics to holding open the possibility of getting over the cap, so they agreed to a deal with a S&T and getting a minor asset. Renegotiating afterwards isn't something that makes sense because it burns a relationship for no gain.


If Boston backs out of the S&T, all that happens is Charlotte makes the cap room another way, either by stretching a current deal, or paying someone else the 2nd to eat a contract.


Also.... the entire theory is based on the idea that the Celtics want to do something (dump Yabu's salary) that they have taken many many actions over the last several months to make clear they have no interest in doing, they could have dumped him in the PHX trade if they wanted, they could have declined his option, etc. They don't want to dump him.
How were they getting someone to take a bad contract for a 2nd? They'd have to get out of at least MKGs contract for 13M. Memphis got a 1st to take AI at 17.2M, a much better player.

Also...the entire theory is not based on the idea that the Celtics want to do something (dump Yabu's salary)

That's something I would've wanted to do in this trade. It's irrespective of my thinking that the Celtics let Charlotte get a guy they wanted for a pittance.
 

lovegtm

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How were they getting someone to take a bad contract for a 2nd? They'd have to get out of at least MKGs contract for 13M. Memphis got a 1st to take AI at 17.2M, a much better player.

Also...the entire theory is not based on the idea that the Celtics want to do something (dump Yabu's salary)

That's something I would've wanted to do in this trade. It's irrespective of my thinking that the Celtics let Charlotte get a guy they wanted for a pittance.
Why are you so sure that Charlotte would have wanted him if the price were assets and not cash? Ainge and Zarren seem to have had a different read, and they have a pretty strong track record wrt extracting value in trades.

Edit: I don’t think either of want this to go on forever. My basic point is that when a competent front office does something, I try to first understand what they were doing, rather than saying what they should have done.

In this case, it seems fairly obvious that the Celtics:
1. Valued the optionality of the potential S&T
2. Didn’t think Charlotte was going to deal good picks for Rozier, even though they were willing to overpay him somewhat.

You can disagree with the front office’s conclusions, but the thought process seems straightforward and defensible.
 
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Cellar-Door

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How were they getting someone to take a bad contract for a 2nd? They'd have to get out of at least MKGs contract for 13M. Memphis got a 1st to take AI at 17.2M, a much better player.

Also...the entire theory is not based on the idea that the Celtics want to do something (dump Yabu's salary)

That's something I would've wanted to do in this trade. It's irrespective of my thinking that the Celtics let Charlotte get a guy they wanted for a pittance.
They had the ability to get 12M-13M in cap space once they let go of Kemba's hold, so they would have needed to clear between 5.5 and 6.5 depending on the structure of the years. They have guys on 1 year deals who have enough value that packaged with a 2nd they could get back either nothing or a salary that opened up the extra 6M or so (MKG, Biyombo, Williams.) Edit- getting someone to take a vet rental for 17.2M w/ nothing coming back is much harder than trading a vet rental and having to take back 6m less than you send out.

If we aren't counting Yabu, then I guess they let them get their guy for a pittiance, but the thing is....

it brought value to the Celtics, they got a 2nd instead of the nothing they would have gotten had they needed to sign Kemba with space. They also got to go shopping for a way to stay above the cap and get the better mid-level. The Celtics needed that agreement in place, since if they didn't, and they found a S&T they wanted to do, now they would have to go back to Charlotte hat in hand to get Kemba turned into a trade. It only looks like they didn't need the agreement because they ended up not being able to get a deal with Brooklyn, if they get the deal with Brooklyn, then suddenly the Celtics are the ones over the barrel on a Roier/Kemba deal.

It didn't work out, but getting that flexibility and a 2nd was worth it at the time, and you can't go back and re-negotiate later. Charlotte wasn't in a particularly weak position, and Charlotte also knew that the Celtics didn't have a plan B. Rozier was either getting traded to the Hornets or renounced. Hornets offerred the guarantee of something in place of the guarantee of nothing.
 
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Eddie Jurak

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Yabu's contract has some significant value to the Celtics even if Yabu himself doesn't. And no team is going to win or lose on its 15th player.
 

mcpickl

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Why are you so sure that Charlotte would have wanted him if the price were assets and not cash? Ainge and Zarren seem to have had a different read, and they have a pretty strong track record wrt extracting value in trades.

Edit: I don’t think either of want this to go on forever. My basic point is that when a competent front office does something, I try to first understand what they were doing, rather than saying what they should have done.

In this case, it seems fairly obvious that the Celtics:
1. Valued the optionality of the potential S&T
2. Didn’t think Charlotte was going to deal good picks for Rozier, even though they were willing to overpay him somewhat.

You can disagree with the front office’s conclusions, but the thought process seems straightforward and defensible.
I never said it wasn't defensible, I said I thought the return was light.

To why am I so sure Charlotte would've wanted him if the price were assets and not cash? I'm not. I'm speculating like everybody else. It seems unlikely to me that Charlotte liked Rozier enough to offer him 3/58, but not like him enough to walk away from offering better compensation to the only team that can trade him to them.

Is it the biggest deal? No. If this happened at the trade deadline I probably wouldn't think twice about it. But it's July. If I'm thinking basketball, I can't just turn on a regular season game, so I'm focused on transactions/team building.

It's all speculation, right? I mean, you, me, and most of this board has speculated the Celtics valued the optionality of the potential S&T. But, did they? What evidence do we have that they did? I don't think any of the national news breakers have reported Boston negotiating with Brooklyn or Philly to make this happen. (Not being snarky there, I just haven't noticed if someone had). I think the most we've heard from anyone nationally is ESPNs cap guy Bobby Marks saying on air (paraphrasing)that Brooklyn wasn't going to do a sign and trade with Boston, unless Boston offered a first round pick or something. Even he didn't say something like, Boston is only offering a second so Brooklyn won't do it.

The most plugged in local guy who broke Horford leaving in the first place hasn't had anything on a potential negotiation either. Steve Bulpett tweeted on June 30th, "Source close to Horford says that even after all the Celtics' cap gymnastics, he will not be winding up back in Boston."

The only real piece of evidence that would be more than a rumor, the Celtics giving away Baynes to clear cap space, leads to me thinking that they weren't expecting to turn the Charlotte trade into a 3 way to stay over the cap, but were clearing the space needed to fit Kemba in.

I think the Celtics basically provided Charlotte the same service that Brooklyn would've provided Boston in a theoretical three way trade, give up nothing of value(technically Boston gave up Rozier RFA rights, but kinda worthless) just so Charlotte/Boston can spend money on someone else they couldn't have just readily done themselves.

And I don't think Brooklyn would've done that for a second(and weirdly Boston having to even send a protected second back. That usually just happens when you have to offer something to satisfy league rules. Not the case here)
 

benhogan

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So at the end of the day, the recap is:

Boston gets Kemba & 2020 Charlotte 2nd round pick

FOR

Charlotte gets Rozier & 2020 Boston protected 2nd

are there any TPE's involved, other eccoutrements?
 

Eddie Jurak

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So at the end of the day, the recap is:

Boston gets Kemba & 2020 Charlotte 2nd round pick

FOR

Charlotte gets Rozier & 2020 Boston protected 2nd

are there any TPE's involved, other eccoutrements?
I believe the pick Boston gets is something weird like the lesser of the Nets and Knicks second round picks (which Charlotte must own). Otherwise yes.
 

Bosox1528

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For the life of me, I couldn't understand where 538's numbers for last year's production regarding Kemba and Kyrie were coming from. The 538 CARMELO model actually projects Kemba to be better than Kyrie for the next 5 years and much better next year, which was encouraging, but I didn't really buy it because their rating claims to go off RPM and BPM, both of which had Kyrie better last year, yet the 538 projections say Kemba was better last year.


However, this morning, I found out why. They've created a rather ingenious way of measuring shooting defense, which is just as predictive of 5-year DRAPM as DBPM is, but also not highly correlated with BPM, so if you regress both against DRAPM, you get an even better metric. By this metric, Kemba is one of the most underrated defensive players in the NBA, and Kyrie is one of the most overrated. Very excited for Kemba next year.

 

DrewDawg

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For the life of me, I couldn't understand where 538's numbers for last year's production regarding Kemba and Kyrie were coming from. The 538 CARMELO model actually projects Kemba to be better than Kyrie for the next 5 years and much better next year, which was encouraging, but I didn't really buy it because their rating claims to go off RPM and BPM, both of which had Kyrie better last year, yet the 538 projections say Kemba was better last year.


However, this morning, I found out why. They've created a rather ingenious way of measuring shooting defense, which is just as predictive of 5-year DRAPM as DBPM is, but also not highly correlated with BPM, so if you regress both against DRAPM, you get an even better metric. By this metric, Kemba is one of the most underrated defensive players in the NBA, and Kyrie is one of the most overrated. Very excited for Kemba next year.


I'll have to look into it a bit more--I do notice Jaylen Brown is higher than Klay Thompson. Aron Baynes is 14th. Tatum is closer to Kawhi than Kawhi is to Jaylen.
 

mcpickl

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Also.... the entire theory is based on the idea that the Celtics want to do something (dump Yabu's salary) that they have taken many many actions over the last several months to make clear they have no interest in doing, they could have dumped him in the PHX trade if they wanted, they could have declined his option, etc. They don't want to dump him.
Huh? No interest?
 

Cellar-Door

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Huh? No interest?
They cut him, that isn't trading an asset to get rid of him.
I will say I'm surprised they did it this way, they must have someone in mind for the 15th spot. However... yes cutting a guy is very different from paying to get rid of him.
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
3,222
They cut him, that isn't trading an asset to get rid of him.
I will say I'm surprised they did it this way, they must have someone in mind for the 15th spot. However... yes cutting a guy is very different from paying to get rid of him.
I didn't say they should trade an asset to get rid of him. I said they should've made Charlotte take him because the return for Boston was too light in that sign and trade.

you said they had no interest in dumping him tho, right?

"They could've dumped him in the PHX trade if they wanted, they could've declined his option, etc. They don't want to dump him"

That's what you wrote.

You don't think waiving him and possibly having to pay his salary anyway to leave counts as wanting to dump him?

For real?

c'mon man
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
4,540
Kiev, Ukraine
I didn't say they should trade an asset to get rid of him. I said they should've made Charlotte take him because the return for Boston was too light in that sign and trade.

you said they had no interest in dumping him tho, right?

"They could've dumped him in the PHX trade if they wanted, they could've declined his option, etc. They don't want to dump him"

That's what you wrote.

You don't think waiving him and possibly having to pay his salary anyway to leave counts as wanting to dump him?

For real?

c'mon man
Yeah, I agree that we now know they wanted to dump him. The only reason I can think of for not doing it in the Charlotte trade is that Charlotte just wouldn’t agree to take him, and were willing to walk over it. Seems unlikely but who knows.

The other possibility is that something changed materially in Summer League, either Yabu being beyond abysmal or somebody else impressing.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
3,231
New York City
Yeah, I agree that we now know they wanted to dump him. The only reason I can think of for not doing it in the Charlotte trade is that Charlotte just wouldn’t agree to take him, and were willing to walk over it. Seems unlikely but who knows.

The other possibility is that something changed materially in Summer League, either Yabu being beyond abysmal or somebody else impressing.
Or various other variables we aren't aware of - for all we know, they might have been negotiating a separate trade at the time they signed Kemba where Yabu was a possible piece, but then the trade fell through.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
35,941
Kemba was on Showtime’s Desus and Mero this past weekend. It’s a hilarious show and worth watching his appearance.