Kemba Walker + 2021 First Round Pick to OKC for Al Horford, Moses Brown

The Big Red Kahuna

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 14, 2003
3,561
I need one of our more in the know experts on cap, contracts, etc... to explain this one to me.
 

Red Averages

owes you $50
SoSH Member
Apr 20, 2003
6,552
Hopefully this ends the era of short point guards that cripple the defense come playoff time.

Interesting that the first move Brad makes is to bring back in Al (ultimate floor extender, defender, leader) and jettison the small PG who can't help on both sides of the floor. Oh and adds a young center in Brown who can grab a ton of boards.

Wonder what this means for TimeLord...
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
5,653
I'm afraid this could signal the end of Tacko Time in Boston. Not sure how many raw bigs you can have at the end of the bench.

Also, I wonder if taking last season off will give Al a bit more pep in his step next season. His deal has 2 years left.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,405
Kiev, Ukraine
I need one of our more in the know experts on cap, contracts, etc... to explain this one to me.
They're getting out of around 1 year of Kemba at 37M (when you net out Horford), and a mid-1st is not a terrible price for that.

Horford is overpaid, but he's a better backup C than TT while doing the same thing, which frees up TT as a salary that can be moved. If someone attractive comes up, TT+Smart matches just about any salary.

Have to imagine Fournier is back at this point, since he's way more playable defensively in non-Kemba lineups.

My immediate reaction is that I like this move.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,405
Kiev, Ukraine
So who will play point? A free agent incoming?
Pretty much anybody on the taller side for a guard who can bring the ball up the floor and then stand on the perimeter and shoot 3s/attack closeouts.

Kemba wasn't really playing point by the end anyway--they were moving him off-ball more and more, which is a waste of his skills (what's left of them).
 

ManicCompression

Member
SoSH Member
May 14, 2015
399
At first glance, I'm a fan and I don't think it's a fleecing. We don't need another rookie fighting for minutes on this team right now and Moses Brown is better big depth over Fall, Kornet when we get rid of Thompson. Horford is a good vet to have around and his contract is way more moveable if we want to go after a guy like Beal (not much guaranteed money next year). I think this frees up room under the tax as well, but I'm no cap expert.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
31,941
Melrose, MA
My gut feeling is that this is good, maybe very good.

The Celtics needed to pay a price to get out from under Kemba’s contract, that is the first round pick and Horford’s money.

Their first round pick is the asset the give up, but they have 2 similarly drafted players (Langford, Nesmith) who will be vying for time next year, so they can do without the pick.

They bring back a guy who was a veteran leader here and who can play C and hit the pick and pop 3. He might be in a late career overpaid lesser role, but he can be a positive

I know nothing about Moses Brown.

This surely opens up some additional possibilities for deals, such as moving Thompson.

The Celtics are, and have been for a long time, their best defensive selves with Smart at the point.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
26,626
Toronto, ON
Does this free up another max slot for us or is this money just going to Jaylen Brown in a year when he needs to be extended again?
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,405
Kiev, Ukraine
Thinking out loud: I bet they keep Horford, but he's a great salary match now for a big name if they don't want to give up Smart for whatever reason.
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
40,871
Is this addition by subtraction? (Someone else to defend at the 1?)

interesting move
Don’t hate it don’t love it
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,405
Kiev, Ukraine
...
Their first round pick is the asset the give up, but they have 2 similarly drafted players (Langford, Nesmith) who will be vying for time next year, so they can do without the pick.
...
Yeah, one way you can think of this is that getting that Kings pick in the Tatum deal gave them the ability to get out of Kemba without crippling young roster depth.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
7,001
I think I like this deal as well. Have to hope that TL can stay on the court. Otherwise Horford will be quickly worn down to a nub forcing big minutes to Moses Brown.

edit - I assume this means TT is moved
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
40,871
They can also play really big now with Horford at the 4 and Smart at the 1 against Philly and other big teams

Horford is a good match for Tatums game too I think

if they keep him (Horford)
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
8,093
Who the hell plays point for us now?
Until we see the rest of the off-season moves, looks like Smart starting, Pritchard off the bench, but Tatum as the main ballhandler a lot of the time.

And if they bring Fournier back, he can bring the ball up some too.
 

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,322
Anything that opens up flexibility by getting rid of Kemba is a positive.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
21,804
I'm afraid this could signal the end of Tacko Time in Boston. Not sure how many raw bigs you can have at the end of the bench.

Also, I wonder if taking last season off will give Al a bit more pep in his step next season. His deal has 2 years left.
Tacko gone was already a given imo. When you’re a two-way prospect you typically have 1-2 years to develop into something relevant. He never did nor did he show any hope that he could.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
1,246
For those who maybe bailed on the 2020-2021 Celtics and didn't see this game, this was my personal introduction to Moses Brown. He can be an absolute force against a team without a top-flight 5.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Dz4wBbdz0


I like this trade, but how much will be a function of the dominos that fall from there. I'm not really concerned about who plays point with Tatum and Brown on the floor so I won't be devastated to see Smart stapled to Thompson for more roster improvement.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
23,823
Have read that Al would be excited to get back to Cs. Wonder if Sam did Al a solid by sending him back there.

I also don't think that KW wanted to end ip in Siberia, I mean OKC, but maybe he can dog it for a year while he figures out how to get to a title contender.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
49,724
deep inside Guido territory
Actually, per Spotrac only $14.5 million of Horford's salary in 2022-2023 is guaranteed. Not sure if this is true anymore since he's not on Philly anymore but Spotrac notes it would jump to $19.5 million if Philly makes the Finals either of the next 2 years and would fully guarantee if Philly wins the title.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,405
Kiev, Ukraine
Have read that Al would be excited to get back to Cs. Wonder if Sam did Al a solid by sending him back there.

I also don't think that KW wanted to end ip in Siberia, I mean OKC, but maybe he can dog it for a year while he figures out how to get to a title contender.
Yeah, I know people will disagree, but I don't see any way he is willing to play out the last year of that deal. It's going to be him rehabilitating himself in another Presti special, or he'll pull a Blake.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
3,190
Saint Paul, MN
They can also play really big now with Horford at the 4 and Smart at the 1 against Philly and other big teams

Horford is a good match for Tatums game too I think

if they keep him (Horford)
This is key. Al is way easier to move than Kemba due to the partial guarantee and the fact that he fits in on many teams
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
6,264
New York City
It's kind of an obvious trade to make - many people on this board have been talking about this possibility for a while now. Sucks that they had to staple a first-rounder to Kemba to get rid of him but it's definitely the case that they are better off trading this year's #16 as opposed to, say, some future protected first-rounder when we have much less visibility into what the team's needs will be at that point. So I don't know if it's a "good" trade, per se, but it was probably a necessary one.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
22,297
It’s basically an even swap of bad contracts. C’s get a promising big in Moses Brown for a 1st
I don't read it that way at all... Brown is a throw in, he's too raw to be worth much, he's just the incentive to pay 16 for the future $ savings.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Staff member
Dope
I wouldn’t trade the 16th pick for Moses Brown. MB is probably better than the median outcome for that pick, and we don’t have to muddle through his rookie year, but I’d take the 1% chance of stumbling onto the next Giannis.

That said, giving up that lottery ticket to swap Kemba for Al makes sense. I didn’t see Al play this year, but unless he’s totally cooked, he’s a better roster fit.

From an OKC perspective, having a diminished Kemba jack up 20 shots a night like he did in Charlotte is a sublime way to tank while still fielding a likable and somewhat entertaining team.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
27,875
Here
Actually, per Spotrac only $14.5 million of Horford's salary in 2022-2023 is guaranteed. Not sure if this is true anymore since he's not on Philly anymore but Spotrac notes it would jump to $19.5 million if Philly makes the Finals either of the next 2 years and would fully guarantee if Philly wins the title.
I believe it’s the team Horford is on, not Philly.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
8,405
Kiev, Ukraine
It's kind of an obvious trade to make - many people on this board have been talking about this possibility for a while now. Sucks that they had to staple a first-rounder to Kemba to get rid of him but it's definitely the case that they are better off trading this year's #16 as opposed to, say, some future protected first-rounder when we have much less visibility into what the team's needs will be at that point. So I don't know if it's a "good" trade, per se, but it was probably a necessary one.
Also between RL and AN and the (likely) mandate to get some vets, there just wasn't going to be playing time. Yanking the bandaid now makes sense, and I don't know that Ainge would have made this move.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
39,239
I love this trade. Kemba is a nice dude but he just wasn't the right fit and needed to go. Moses Brown is raw but he's not Tacko raw. He can be useful. Had some really good moments in very low leverage games for OKC. He then kind of sputtered down the stretch so I'm not expecting too much from him but he's decent depth and size is size.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
27,875
Here
Celtics can move Al for a smaller expiring and then move that expiring for a smaller expiring and maybe save 30 millionish or so in 2023. Throw in some 2nds to get it done.

They should be able to make a max work in 2023, and that has to be the goal. Find that guy that completes the trio with Tatum and Brown, Take 4. Or trade Brown for a max caliber and sign another max, so Tatum with two other stars.