Kemba 2021: The Jour-knee Begins

lovegtm

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Man, people move pretty quickly from "I just hope Kemba can be a semblance of himself again" to worrying about his exact minutes and matchups.

If the Kemba we've seen the last ~2 weeks can stay healthy, all of that takes care of itself. The converse, of course, is also true.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Man, people move pretty quickly from "I just hope Kemba can be a semblance of himself again" to worrying about his exact minutes and matchups.

If the Kemba we've seen the last ~2 weeks can stay healthy, all of that takes care of itself. The converse, of course, is also true.
Pretty soon people will join me on the dark side with the opinion Kemba opts out after next season. If he's playing really well, flipping him in the offseason without giving up an asset could be a possibility too.
 

lovegtm

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Pretty soon people will join me on the dark side with the opinion Kemba opts out after next season. If he's playing really well, flipping him in the offseason without giving up an asset could be a possibility too.
I think if he's playing well after this year, with just 1+1 left, Danny will make those same calls and get a lot more interest.
 

benhogan

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Pretty soon people will join me on the dark side with the opinion Kemba opts out after next season. If he's playing really well, flipping him in the offseason without giving up an asset could be a possibility too.
I'm more negative on Kemba than most, so if I flip you're probably right. I'm not there yet and still think it will cost assets.

BUT this is an encouraging trend (from the Athletic):

Walker is not back to himself yet, but over his past eight games, he’s averaging 22.4 points per night and shooting 40.8 percent from deep. Take out that 1-for-12 disaster at New Orleans a week ago and he’s at 47.4 percent from deep over that span.

I hope I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time
 

Cellar-Door

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Pretty soon people will join me on the dark side with the opinion Kemba opts out after next season. If he's playing really well, flipping him in the offseason without giving up an asset could be a possibility too.
I think there is little chance you need to give up an asset to move Kemba if he doesn't break down. He's good, maybe he's overpaid but somebody will want a guy who can score like that.

Kemba has only played 18 games since returning from injury in his last 10 he's got a 22.6/3.7/4.7 line on 44/38/93 shooting his 110.5 Ortg is the best of the starters, his 105.6 Drtg ties him with Theis (so better than the Jays in both). If he's that guy... 1. You probably don't want to trade him. 2. If you do you're asking for value in return.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm more negative on Kemba than most, so if I flip you're probably right. I'm not there yet and still think it will cost assets.

BUT this is an encouraging trend (from the Athletic):

Walker is not back to himself yet, but over his past eight games, he’s averaging 22.4 points per night and shooting 40.8 percent from deep. Take out that 1-for-12 disaster at New Orleans a week ago and he’s at 47.4 percent from deep over that span.

I hope I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time
I don't like him either but I don't this his contract is as bad as some are making it out to be.

Over the last 8, he's shooting .437/.408/.941, with the aforementioned 22.4 points, 4.5 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 2.8 TO, 1.5 PF and 4.3 FTA/G in 32.3 mpg. 30/64, .469 from 2.
Last year, .425/.381/.864, 20.4 points, 4.8 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 0.9 steals, 2.1 TO, 1.6 PF, 4.3 FTA/G in 31.1 mpg. 198/416, .476 from 2.

For his career, he's .453 from 2. Last year, he was .476. .469 would be tied for his 4th best season.

It's just box score stats but it's kind of uncanny.


I think there is little chance you need to give up an asset to move Kemba if he doesn't break down. He's good, maybe he's overpaid but somebody will want a guy who can score like that.

Kemba has only played 18 games since returning from injury in his last 10 he's got a 22.6/3.7/4.7 line on 44/38/93 shooting his 110.5 Ortg is the best of the starters, his 105.6 Drtg ties him with Theis (so better than the Jays in both). If he's that guy... 1. You probably don't want to trade him. 2. If you do you're asking for value in return.
Yeah, I'm sure a few people are already on my side.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Payton Pritchard over his last 10 is averaging 5/2/2 on 35% from the field and 18% from three. Just a point of comparison for the "Pritchard should start" crowd.
I was so high on PP early on and am surprised as how far he’s fallen off now that teams have a line on him. Never to the silliness of moving Kemba to the bench for him but as a key element to our rotation. He’s having trouble getting his shot off against close outs which affects the entire offensive set. Combine this with his struggles against bigger guards and I’ve cooled considerably on him. The VanVleet upside is a thing of the past now that PP’s limitations have been exposed however he should be able to figure it out to be a serviceable second unit guard.
 

slamminsammya

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I'm more negative on Kemba than most, so if I flip you're probably right. I'm not there yet and still think it will cost assets.

BUT this is an encouraging trend (from the Athletic):

Walker is not back to himself yet, but over his past eight games, he’s averaging 22.4 points per night and shooting 40.8 percent from deep. Take out that 1-for-12 disaster at New Orleans a week ago and he’s at 47.4 percent from deep over that span.

I hope I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time
You really gotta love the "take out the worst game and he looks great" takes that still exist in 2021.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think there is little chance you need to give up an asset to move Kemba if he doesn't break down. He's good, maybe he's overpaid but somebody will want a guy who can score like that.

Kemba has only played 18 games since returning from injury in his last 10 he's got a 22.6/3.7/4.7 line on 44/38/93 shooting his 110.5 Ortg is the best of the starters, his 105.6 Drtg ties him with Theis (so better than the Jays in both). If he's that guy... 1. You probably don't want to trade him. 2. If you do you're asking for value in return.
Kemba also jumped right into the lineup during the season in what normally amounted to his first exhibition games when everyone else was already ramped up. Once he got his game legs under him he’s been more than fine and there is a noticeable difference when he’s off the door.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was so high on PP early on and am surprised as how far he’s fallen off now that teams have a line on him. Never to the silliness of moving Kemba to the bench for him but as a key element to our rotation. He’s having trouble getting his shot off against close outs which affects the entire offensive set. Combine this with his struggles against bigger guards and I’ve cooled considerably on him. The VanVleet upside is a thing of the past now that PP’s limitations have been exposed however he should be able to figure it out to be a serviceable second unit guard.
I never liked the FVV comparison and I was the one who proposed Kemba on the bench but he'd have been finishing games and getting starter minutes. With how egos work, it probably doesn't work out. Plus you can always juggle the rotation so that one of Walker, Tatum or Brown is in the game even if all 3 are starting. It's just easier with Kemba coming off the bench.

Value wise, I think PP will be closer to Monte Morris than FVV.
 

NomarsFool

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There have been a few times recently where I thought he had a good catch and shoot look from three where he instead passed it. I think Scal commented on it once last game that they were overpassing a bit.
 

scottyno

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I never liked the FVV comparison and I was the one who proposed Kemba on the bench but he'd have been finishing games and getting starter minutes. With how egos work, it probably doesn't work out. Plus you can always juggle the rotation so that one of Walker, Tatum or Brown is in the game even if all 3 are starting. It's just easier with Kemba coming off the bench.

Value wise, I think PP will be closer to Monte Morris than FVV.
Why is it easier with Kemba coming off the bench? You don't want a lineup with both Brown and Tatum on the bench together ever anyway so it's not like Kemba will come in with the bench squad and both Brown and Tatum go off the floor. It makes way more sense to just start them all and then stagger who goes to the bench first.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Why is it easier with Kemba coming off the bench? You don't want a lineup with both Brown and Tatum on the bench together ever anyway so it's not like Kemba will come in with the bench squad and both Brown and Tatum go off the floor. It makes way more sense to just start them all and then stagger who goes to the bench first.
Fair enough. I looked it up and 11 such minutes exist out of 533.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Last 8 games have been against WAS; ATL (x3); DEN, NOP, DAL, and IND. By unadjusted DRtg, NOP is 2nd worse, ATL is 5th worse, WAS is 7th worse, DAL is 8th worse, and DEN is 11th worse. The game before that 8 game streak was against WAS and the game before that was against DET (12th worse).

Just pointing out that BOS has not been playing against a bunch of defensive juggernauts.
 

DGreenwood

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Is Kemba playing his way back into being a positive trade asset this summer? 30+ points in 4 of the last 6 games he played. Of course I'm completely glossing over the 5 games he didn't play during that stretch because of injuries or load management.
 

radsoxfan

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Is Kemba playing his way back into being a positive trade asset this summer? 30+ points in 4 of the last 6 games he played. Of course I'm completely glossing over the 5 games he didn't play during that stretch because of injuries or load management.
Positive asset seems like a bit optimistic, the knee "injury" isn't going to completely go away and he isn't getting any younger.

But would be nice if he looks this good for the rest of the season. If teams view him as neutral or close to neutral, that's a pretty big improvement from the start of the season and immediately after he came back.
 

DGreenwood

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Positive asset seems like a bit optimistic, the knee "injury" isn't going to completely go away and he isn't getting any younger.

But would be nice if he looks this good for the rest of the season. If teams view him as neutral or close to neutral, that's a pretty big improvement from the start of the season and immediately after he came back.
Yeah, neutral would be a positive development.
 

Cellar-Door

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the same place the Sixers went to, where everyone goes when they need to be fixed...Dr. Presti

I'm probably the least qualified to write up a reason for anyone to want KEMBA (since I never wanted him to begin with) but here goes:
1. great attitude, good guy
2. very approachable for young players
3. scorer
4. knee showed improvement during the course of the season
5. his most efficient games are when he was a #1 or 2 offensive option during the regular season
6. he led the league in charges taken, not afraid to sacrifice himself for the benefit of the team
7. some metrics can be mangled to show he was a decent defensive player this season
8. past All-Star
9. good great at FTs!

see @Cellar-Door & @scottyno if you want a more detailed Kemba case, they still see value there. Maybe some NBA GM does also?


The Horford deal is the only one I see. They are dealing Al to take something worse + youth/picks

But I agree with you & can't get my head around Kemba ever dreaming of opting out of $37.5. The Drummonds/Griffins/Batums have the playbook there. Wrap yourself in shrinkwrap in the final season of your fat deal, get the buyout, go to a contender refreshed at midseason on the minimum. Kemba will never get that $$$ again and get to choose to go to a contender like that.

Boston is the bagholder.
So I'm cross-posting this so we don't de-rail the Romeo thread.

i'm less likely to think of Kemba as having trade value than I was... getting hurt in the playoffs brings up all the same concerns for teams, even if BOS is saying it's a contact injury.

To me you probably keep Kemba... he's a sunk cost and he brings intermittent value to the team, just not anywhere near what you're paying for. Moving him doesn't help you any if you have to use assets for him, or take back worse players.

HOWEVER.

I guess I'll game out the teams you could MAYBE see interested enough in him this summer to not require assets to take him:
#1- NYK... a rumor forever, but if the Knicks strike out on top end talent with their tons of cap space this summer, Kemba might be attractive. They need scoring, he can score, Thibs has managed a guy with lots of offensive talent and busted knees before.
#2- OKC, the classic salary dump. OKC may be interested in a buy super-low, rehab and sell normal low approach with Kemba.
#3- San Antonio- another team that needs scoring, and one that has had different valuations of vets in the past than others
#4- DAL- I think they'll pursue other options, but as anyone watching them in the playoffs can see, they desperately need anyone who can create a shot who isn't Luka, and Cuban is always willing to overpay for a competitive team. This has two potential options.. 1 Kemba for little to nothing, or a "our mistake for yours" swap with Porzingis.
#5- LAC- Now this sounds insane on it's face but... if LAC go out early and Kawhi bolts, they are basically screwed, no picks, ton of long term deals.... enter Kemba.
 

benhogan

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Cross posting so we f


So I'm cross-posting this so we don't de-rail the Romeo thread.

i'm less likely to think of Kemba as having trade value than I was... getting hurt in the playoffs brings up all the same concerns for teams, even if BOS is saying it's a contact injury.

To me you probably keep Kemba... he's a sunk cost and he brings intermittent value to the team, just not anywhere near what you're paying for. Moving him doesn't help you any if you have to use assets for him, or take back worse players.

HOWEVER.

I guess I'll game out the teams you could MAYBE see interested enough in him this summer to not require assets to take him:
#1- NYK... a rumor forever, but if the Knicks strike out on top end talent with their tons of cap space this summer, Kemba might be attractive. They need scoring, he can score, Thibs has managed a guy with lots of offensive talent and busted knees before.
#2- OKC, the classic salary dump. OKC may be interested in a buy super-low, rehab and sell normal low approach with Kemba.
#3- San Antonio- another team that needs scoring, and one that has had different valuations of vets in the past than others
#4- DAL- I think they'll pursue other options, but as anyone watching them in the playoffs can see, they desperately need anyone who can create a shot who isn't Luka, and Cuban is always willing to overpay for a competitive team. This has two potential options.. 1 Kemba for little to nothing, or a "our mistake for yours" swap with Porzingis.
#5- LAC- Now this sounds insane on it's face but... if LAC go out early and Kawhi bolts, they are basically screwed, no picks, ton of long term deals.... enter Kemba.
Thanks, good post

If he stays, I'd like to see Kemba used as a shorter minute (~26mpg), bench option where he can be a ball-dominant top scoring option. That could repair his value while offensively dominating bench players, save the wear n tear on the knee, and not expose him as much defensively. Not sure CBS would have the guts to do that, but they need a fallback plan if Danny can't move him.
 

Jimbodandy

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Thanks, good post

If he stays, I'd like to see Kemba used as a shorter minute (~26mpg), bench option where he can be a ball-dominant top scoring option. That could repair his value while offensively dominating bench players, save the wear n tear on the knee, and not expose him as much defensively. Not sure CBS would have the guts to do that, but they need a fallback plan if Danny can't move him.
It's petty obvious that Kemba still has skills. He just has dropped off from where he was, and--more importantly--the skills that got him PAID are now somewhat redundant on this starting unit.

However, I agree that bench scoring is one area where he can add value. So is spot up shooting. Guy can shoot. No reason why he can't camp out in the corner sometimes and wait for that open look.

There are ways to use Kemba if he can't be moved without taking a huge loss. But someone needs to have a Come to Jesus conversation with him.
 

benhogan

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It's petty obvious that Kemba still has skills. He just has dropped off from where he was, and--more importantly--the skills that got him PAID are now somewhat redundant on this starting unit.

However, I agree that bench scoring is one area where he can add value. So is spot up shooting. Guy can shoot. No reason why he can't camp out in the corner sometimes and wait for that open look.

There are ways to use Kemba if he can't be moved without taking a huge loss. But someone needs to have a Come to Jesus conversation with him.
Is Kemba really a good spot-up shooter? I think Fournier is a better spot-up shooter or Danny could easily find one. While EF is a bad defender he doesn't send the defense into mismatched rotation whenever asked to guard below the FT line. So I don't see him killing the structure of the D while on the floor.

Against 2nd units, Kemba could be KEMBA. Ball in hands creating shots for himself, smiling, putting up POINTZ. Brad did this in a small dose with IT against the Wizards in the playoffs a few seasons back. So it may be swimming around in his head
 

mcpickl

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Cross posting so we f


So I'm cross-posting this so we don't de-rail the Romeo thread.

i'm less likely to think of Kemba as having trade value than I was... getting hurt in the playoffs brings up all the same concerns for teams, even if BOS is saying it's a contact injury.

To me you probably keep Kemba... he's a sunk cost and he brings intermittent value to the team, just not anywhere near what you're paying for. Moving him doesn't help you any if you have to use assets for him, or take back worse players.

HOWEVER.

I guess I'll game out the teams you could MAYBE see interested enough in him this summer to not require assets to take him:
#1- NYK... a rumor forever, but if the Knicks strike out on top end talent with their tons of cap space this summer, Kemba might be attractive. They need scoring, he can score, Thibs has managed a guy with lots of offensive talent and busted knees before.
#2- OKC, the classic salary dump. OKC may be interested in a buy super-low, rehab and sell normal low approach with Kemba.
#3- San Antonio- another team that needs scoring, and one that has had different valuations of vets in the past than others
#4- DAL- I think they'll pursue other options, but as anyone watching them in the playoffs can see, they desperately need anyone who can create a shot who isn't Luka, and Cuban is always willing to overpay for a competitive team. This has two potential options.. 1 Kemba for little to nothing, or a "our mistake for yours" swap with Porzingis.
#5- LAC- Now this sounds insane on it's face but... if LAC go out early and Kawhi bolts, they are basically screwed, no picks, ton of long term deals.... enter Kemba.
I agree with this.

The only realistic chance to move Kemba this summer is to take back worse players on also shitty, but cheaper contracts.

Like Dallas might take him if they miss out on other options, but they'll likely offer something like Josh Richardson and Dwight Powell.
A Clippers offer probably looks like Pat Beverley and one of Luke Kennard or Marcus Morris

I can't see any scenario where a team takes Kemba without sticking the Celtics with some serious negative value contracts coming back.
 

ifmanis5

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There are always dumb teams out there. Hopefully Danny can find one. The Jays can't get to the next level with him.
I'll guess a multi-team deal where they'll have to give up additional assets (players/picks) to shed that awful contract is the only way. Wasting another year of the Jays prime is not an option. Unfortunately, I think Kemba is not realistically tradeable with that contract. Whose deal is worse? Love, Wall or Westbrook?
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's petty obvious that Kemba still has skills. He just has dropped off from where he was, and--more importantly--the skills that got him PAID are now somewhat redundant on this starting unit.

However, I agree that bench scoring is one area where he can add value. So is spot up shooting. Guy can shoot. No reason why he can't camp out in the corner sometimes and wait for that open look.

There are ways to use Kemba if he can't be moved without taking a huge loss. But someone needs to have a Come to Jesus conversation with him.
What would that conversation consist of if we don’t have a better player on the roster for his position? You can’t just sit down with a Max player and say we are going to start an inferior player in your place just because.
 

EddieYost

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What would that conversation consist of if we don’t have a better player on the roster for his position? You can just sit down with a Max player and say we are going to start an inferior player in your place just because.
“Hey Kemba, we are making a change because we think it gives the team a better chance to win.”
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What would that conversation consist of if we don’t have a better player on the roster for his position? You can’t just sit down with a Max player and say we are going to start an inferior player in your place just because.
The conversation would have to start with a medical professional laying out what is wrong with KW's knee and the logical progression of the injury.

Then it continues with DA saying to KW and his agent, look we tried to load manage you this year and it didn't work.

Then comes the obligatory fawning and how much they love KW but it's better if he plays 72 games at fewer minutes and be ready for the playoffs than trying to get his body to do something it may not be able to do anymore.

Then there's the obligatory, "And certainly if we can get through the season on limited minutes and all goes well, we'll certainly look to try to ramp things up so you can be starting in the playoffs."

Or something like that.

I know a person doesn't t get to the NBA by having doubts about his ability or anything but tunnel vision on being the best he can be but maybe KW will be open to being a supersub if he thinks it's the best for his body.

Just spitballin' here.
 

Cellar-Door

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Also I have seen a bunch of "would Brad have the guts" etc. The NBA doesn't actually work that way. As we see with things like Drummond in LA, and others around the league... A lot of factors go into these things and often the coach doesn't get to make that call on his own. The GM might.

There is also how players think. It isn't just Kemba, look at how teammates reacted to Melo when he first lost his role. If Kemba is here next year he's probably starting, question will be MPG
 

Jimbodandy

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After Kemba stops laughing and asks how what would the response be?
What's his response if he doesn't like it? I get that this is a players league, but what's his leverage here? A trade demand?

I think that we need to make a good faith effort to make him comfortable with the idea. And if it were me making that sales pitch, it would be that his body simply can't handle 30+ minutes against NBA starters anymore and that we can adjust his minutes such that he maybe doesn't need a walker/cane before his 40th birthday.

Arthritis is a bitch. Bone on bone is a bitch. It's in his best interests to be put in situations where he can succeed, not just the team's.

Edit: WBCD said it better.
 

RG33

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. . . . Wasting another year of the Jays prime is not an option.
Thankfully, and frighteningly for the rest of the league, I don’t think we’re that close to the Jays prime yet.
 

mcpickl

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What's his response if he doesn't like it? I get that this is a players league, but what's his leverage here? A trade demand?

I think that we need to make a good faith effort to make him comfortable with the idea. And if it were me making that sales pitch, it would be that his body simply can't handle 30+ minutes against NBA starters anymore and that we can adjust his minutes such that he maybe doesn't need a walker/cane before his 40th birthday.

Arthritis is a bitch. Bone on bone is a bitch. It's in his best interests to be put in situations where he can succeed, not just the team's.

Edit: WBCD said it better.
A miserable player in your locker room.

He's unlikely to be poison like a miserable Kyrie was, but it's certainly not helpful to a team.
 

Jimbodandy

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A miserable player in your locker room.

He's unlikely to be poison like a miserable Kyrie was, but it's certainly not helpful to a team.
Yeah that sucks too. I think that the team needs to make a good faith effort to explain the situation to him and why it's a good idea for everyone. I'm hopeful that he is as concerned about winning games as they are and will at least consider options. Maybe that means he plays the first five minutes of each half, some of which is off ball.

Nobody knows his degenerative knee condition better than he does. Maybe that knowledge opens his mind.

If not, the decision comes down to one unhappy guy vs. a bunch of unhappy guys, as they're witness to his 6-20 games and numerous maintenance days.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah that sucks too. I think that the team needs to make a good faith effort to explain the situation to him and why it's a good idea for everyone. I'm hopeful that he is as concerned about winning games as they are and will at least consider options. Maybe that means he plays the first five minutes of each half, some of which is off ball.

Nobody knows his degenerative knee condition better than he does. Maybe that knowledge opens his mind.

If not, the decision comes down to one unhappy guy vs. a bunch of unhappy guys, as they're witness to his 6-20 games and numerous maintenance days.
The thing is that if the teams sales pitch is reducing his minutes that can still be accomplished with him in the starting lineup instead of him facing the embarrassing stigma of being a Max player coming off the bench while an inferior player is starting.

It isn’t like we have a young stud ready to assume the team which would be a totally different conversation if we did. That could be sold as part of a transition and team sacrifice.....I don’t see how this current situation would be without him thinking it’s a joke.
 

nighthob

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The only realistic chance to move Kemba this summer is to take back worse players on also shitty, but cheaper contracts.
I think he gets moved to the Clippers when Leonard decides that leading Tatum and Brown is his best shot at another Finals MVP. ;)
 

radsoxfan

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We can't really know the best Kemba plan without knowing what teams will give up for him. He's clearly a negative asset, but plenty of other negative assets are out there that can still help the Celtics next year.

Assuming there is no dumb GM or beneficial negative asset swap out there, I agree with the 20-25 min per game bench scorer role. Maybe he finishes some games with the starters if he's playing well, but he's just not consistent enough to expect him to be a top 3-4 guy.

As to the spot up shooting comment above, he's an OK shooter but if that's anything close to his primary role something is wrong. If you want a bench spot up shooter type, you need to find a bigger wing that can defend as well. Kemba as a bench spot up shooter is a waste of minutes, much better to let Nesmith or free agent X do that.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't get the appeal of Kemba as a spot up shooter... he's okay at it, but nothing special.
Unless our roster changes significantly what I want Kemba doing is running the offense. I'd want him to reduce his own shot attempts, but I think (as we saw yesterday) the offense runs better when he's there... he know what to do and when, that's a real skill. Tatum and Brown need touches, but not necessarily as the initiators of the offense all game.
 

bankshot1

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The Celts need a full time PG to run the offense and put some ball movement and flow into their game. We can't count on 40+ a night from Tatum (maybe we can but its not a great formula to win games) And Kemba's knee seems cooked, making him an off/on player. They don't need an all-star PG, but a guy who can pass, is unselfish, and hit 3s 35-38% of the time. They need a conductor and continuity.
 

benhogan

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I don't get the appeal of Kemba as a spot up shooter... he's okay at it, but nothing special.
Unless our roster changes significantly what I want Kemba doing is running the offense. I'd want him to reduce his own shot attempts, but I think (as we saw yesterday) the offense runs better when he's there... he know what to do and when, that's a real skill. Tatum and Brown need touches, but not necessarily as the initiators of the offense all game.
There is no appeal of Kemba as a spot-up shooter (36% 3pt shooter :(), but that's what he becomes when he's playing the majority of his minutes with the Jays. Hence why he is an awful fit on the team as the 3rd offensive option. He's much better as a ball-dominant top-scoring option against 2nd string guards when one of the Jays takes a seat after 8 minutes.

Ultimately you want Kemba putting up 22pts/gm for the 22-60 OKC Thunder next season.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
20,805
I don't get the appeal of Kemba as a spot up shooter... he's okay at it, but nothing special.
Unless our roster changes significantly what I want Kemba doing is running the offense. I'd want him to reduce his own shot attempts, but I think (as we saw yesterday) the offense runs better when he's there... he know what to do and when, that's a real skill. Tatum and Brown need touches, but not necessarily as the initiators of the offense all game.
Exactly. What are the other options? Smart continues to show why he isnt that guy on one end as he cannot get to his spots with the dribble to initiate the offense while playing him out of position defensively at the other. Pritchard against starters isn’t even an option as he is much worse. Yeah in a perfect world we’d have this up and coming soon-to-be All-Star guard in place to where it makes sense as to Kembas role. Instead all I’m hearing is Kemba is best off the bench without any solution as to how to upgrade the position.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
11,519
Santa Monica
Exactly. What are the other options? Smart continues to show why he isnt that guy on one end as he cannot get to his spots with the dribble to initiate the offense while playing him out of position defensively at the other. Pritchard against starters isn’t even an option as he is much worse. Yeah in a perfect world we’d have this up and coming soon-to-be All-Star guard in place to where it makes sense as to Kembas role. Instead all I’m hearing is Kemba is best off the bench without any solution as to how to upgrade the position.
There have been rumors that Danny may make some trades after this season.

or they can run this unit back again and expect different results.

37-40 with 2 young All-Stars has me thinking that changes are a-comin'
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
3,668
Exactly. What are the other options? Smart continues to show why he isnt that guy on one end as he cannot get to his spots with the dribble to initiate the offense while playing him out of position defensively at the other. Pritchard against starters isn’t even an option as he is much worse. Yeah in a perfect world we’d have this up and coming soon-to-be All-Star guard in place to where it makes sense as to Kembas role. Instead all I’m hearing is Kemba is best off the bench without any solution as to how to upgrade the position.
I agree with this.

Also moving Kemba to the bench for anybody but Pritchard, which I agree would be an awful idea, would leave the Celtics with a bunch of minutes with Kemba and Pritchard on the floor together. That's even worse.

Unless they hit a miracle and someone takes Kemba without making the Celtics roster weaker, he pretty much has to start.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
21,364
There have been rumors that Danny may make some trades after this season.

or they can run this unit back again and expect different results.

37-40 with 2 young All-Stars has me thinking that changes are a-comin'
I think there are some changes coming, but I also hope that Danny is smart enough to put almost no emphasis on the record. This year is bizarre and was loaded with injuries and COVID issues. I would hope changes are made to solidify the depth, and he explores a bunch of options for how to handle the Smart/Kemba/Fournier trio's issues, as well as what to do at C given the inability of TL to stay healthy, but blowing it up just because of the record would be a mistake. If this team had been healthier it probably wins 45-48 games, but the underlying issues would have been the same
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
10,200
There have been rumors that Danny may make some trades after this season.
After the Clips annual June Swoon (well, normally a May Flay, but covid and all) Kawhi’s going to come to Boston and use the JayCrew as his superteam.
 

scottyno

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Dec 7, 2008
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So you move Kemba to the bench, and where are these minutes coming from where he's on the court and neither of the Jays are? Assuming they're both healthy there should be very very few meaningful minutes where you don't have either Jay on the court, they aren't going to run a lineup of Kemba and the bench mob like they do with Tatum. It's not like you can't stagger his minutes so he still plays more minutes with just one of the Jays than with both of them if he starts.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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So you move Kemba to the bench, and where are these minutes coming from where he's on the court and neither of the Jays are? Assuming they're both healthy there should be very very few meaningful minutes where you don't have either Jay on the court, they aren't going to run a lineup of Kemba and the bench mob like they do with Tatum. It's not like you can't stagger his minutes so he still plays more minutes with just one of the Jays than with both of them if he starts.
I don't get people's obsession with the idea that there aren't enough touches to go around. There are an insane number of possessions, and you need 3 guys at least on the court at all times you're comfortable with being the offense creator. We just saw last night what happens when you only have 1 or 2... you get absolute garbage offense. Even prime Harden ISO HOU other guys needed to touch the ball plenty.

The Celtics would need to add about 3 more high end offensive weapons before I'd be even remotely concerned about touches. The Celtics already don't have enough guys who can create offense. The closest they came was when Tatum, Brown, Kemba and FOurnier were all healthy.
 

Saints Rest

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What is the list of "big bad contracts" that might be worth the Celtics stomaching as a return for Kemba? And do any of those bad contracts fit better in Boston on this team than Kemba does? And if so, what else would need to be added to Kemba to make the deal acceptable to the other team and/or to make the money work? Or is there any place where Kemba is actually a decent fit for the receiving team?

Names previously mentioned:
  • Horford
  • Wall
  • Westbrook
  • Porzingis
  • Love
Anyone else? Wiggins?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
12,740
The Celts need a full time PG to run the offense and put some ball movement and flow into their game. We can't count on 40+ a night from Tatum (maybe we can but its not a great formula to win games) And Kemba's knee seems cooked, making him an off/on player. They don't need an all-star PG, but a guy who can pass, is unselfish, and hit 3s 35-38% of the time. They need a conductor and continuity.
Brogdon.

-sigh-
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
20,805
What is the list of "big bad contracts" that might be worth the Celtics stomaching as a return for Kemba? And do any of those bad contracts fit better in Boston on this team than Kemba does? And if so, what else would need to be added to Kemba to make the deal acceptable to the other team and/or to make the money work? Or is there any place where Kemba is actually a decent fit for the receiving team?

Names previously mentioned:
  • Horford
  • Wall
  • Westbrook
  • Porzingis
  • Love
Anyone else? Wiggins?
Porzingis and Westbrook are both producing at high levels. I woudlnt include them in this group at all.