Kemba 2021: The Jour-knee Begins

Cesar Crespo

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Hield is a more expensive, older Beasley without the off court issues. I don't know why the Kings would want Kemba when they have Fox and Haliburton tho.
 

Cellar-Door

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Kemba and a 1st for Wood and Gordon.... lol sign me up yesterday.
I bet the writer doesn't realize that the last year of Gordon's deal isn't guaranteed. He's pretty bad, and getting worse so if he really had 3 more years at around 20M per he'd be a significant negative (still not enough for a 1st and Kemba to get Wood though).
 

nighthob

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Gary Harris has "defensive chops"? Is that a reference to him hitting people? Because he hasn't been very good at defense in a while now.
 

the moops

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If the Kidd and Lillard rumors are true, I would gladly sign up for Jason Kidd to be the coach for the next few years, assuming there is a workable trade for Lillard to Boston.

Rope OKC in to take Kemba's deal?

BOS - Lillard, Horford
OKC - Kemba, Simons, picks
POR - Jaylen, Pritchard
 

Jimbodandy

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If the Kidd and Lillard rumors are true, I would gladly sign up for Jason Kidd to be the coach for the next few years, assuming there is a workable trade for Lillard to Boston.

Rope OKC in to take Kemba's deal?

BOS - Lillard, Horford
OKC - Kemba, Simons, picks
POR - Jaylen, Pritchard
Lol. Kidd inbound and Jaylen outbound. And we get to nibble the bones off Horford's carcass too. Sweet mother of God.
 
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I don't see the logic of Lillard at all. He's a great player, but he will be 31 in July. Why would we want to pay for his declining years just as the Jays enter their prime?

I get the desire to dump Kemba, but we may be better off just managing him for one more bridge season rather than making a deal which will compound the problem going forward.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Only Lilliard deal that makes sense to me is Kemba, Romeo, Nesmith, 1st round pick this year or something along those lines.

That's not happening.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Portland wouldn't do that, but LFG.
Right, there's no deal that makes sense for both teams. The C's should be trying to add a player to the Jays, not switching out one of the Jays for another player.

It's like having the king of hearts and king of spades, then trading the king of spades for the king of clubs. You are still just holding a pair of kings. They want a set (3) of kings.
 

Jimbodandy

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Right, there's no deal that makes sense for both teams. The C's should be trying to add a player to the Jays, not switching out one of the Jays for another player.

It's like having the king of hearts and king of spades, then trading the king of spades for the king of clubs. You are still just holding a pair of kings. They want a set (3) of kings.
Exactly. What will be interesting to see is if Brad holds onto the picks as much as Danny would, not just the young players. Not just Dame, what if Beal is available for a similar smorgasbord? I mean, he probably isn't. But guys at that level...anything that isn't stapled down (i.e. the Jays) is fair game. And if Kemba is somehow going out, who gives a shit if Dame costs 50M.
 

Cellar-Door

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Right, there's no deal that makes sense for both teams. The C's should be trying to add a player to the Jays, not switching out one of the Jays for another player.

It's like having the king of hearts and king of spades, then trading the king of spades for the king of clubs. You are still just holding a pair of kings. They want a set (3) of kings.
Not really...

We really need to stop pretending Jaylen is on the same level as Damian Lillard. He isn't, and likely at no point in his career will be.

I don't know if I'd want Lillard's end of contract, but if you're trying to win a title in the next 3 years Lillard instead of Brown significantly increases you chances, he's at least 1 if not 2 or 3 tiers better.

The strategy would be pretty sound... get the two best players you can and fill in the rest bit by bit, it's how the Lakers won last year. It's probably short term, because Dame is gonna decline at some point and his contract is insane, but Jaylen going out and Dame coming in significantly improves the top end talent of this team.


Edit- If we want to use the cards analogy... Tatum and Brown is like having KJ suited pre-flop in Hold 'em. Having Dame gives you pocket Kings
 

benhogan

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Just a friendly reminder:
Our loveable PG has a 15% trade kicker. That puts his last 2 seasons ~$85MM in any trade :eek:

Maybe Smiley waives it to avoid becoming the C's Lou Williams the next 2 seasons?
 

the moops

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Not really...

We really need to stop pretending Jaylen is on the same level as Damian Lillard. He isn't, and likely at no point in his career will be.

I don't know if I'd want Lillard's end of contract, but if you're trying to win a title in the next 3 years Lillard instead of Brown significantly increases you chances, he's at least 1 if not 2 or 3 tiers better.
People are sleeping on Lillard.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not really...

We really need to stop pretending Jaylen is on the same level as Damian Lillard. He isn't, and likely at no point in his career will be.

I don't know if I'd want Lillard's end of contract, but if you're trying to win a title in the next 3 years Lillard instead of Brown significantly increases you chances, he's at least 1 if not 2 or 3 tiers better.

The strategy would be pretty sound... get the two best players you can and fill in the rest bit by bit, it's how the Lakers won last year. It's probably short term, because Dame is gonna decline at some point and his contract is insane, but Jaylen going out and Dame coming in significantly improves the top end talent of this team.


Edit- If we want to use the cards analogy... Tatum and Brown is like having KJ suited pre-flop in Hold 'em. Having Dame gives you pocket Kings
Tatum/Dame isn't winning anything and Dame's decline is probably coming sooner than later.

The C's shouldn't be trading Brown away for a 6'2 guard on the wrong side of 30. The team is better for maybe a year or two. His contract is aligned with Tatum's too, so in 4 year we'll get to watch Tatum leave with Dame.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The team also isn't winning a title with just Tatum/Brown. That's kind of the point. Tatum/Brown/Dame.. now we are talking.
 

the moops

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Just a friendly reminder:
Our loveable PG has a 15% trade kicker. That puts his last 2 seasons ~$85MM in any trade :eek:

Maybe Smiley waives it to avoid becoming the C's Lou Williams the next 2 seasons?
I don't think the trade kicker will even come into play though right? He can't get more than 35% of the cap when he is traded, thus his next years salary of 39 million will not go up, or if it does, it will be a tiny increase.
 

benhogan

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Tatum/Dame isn't winning anything and Dame's decline is probably coming sooner than later.

The C's shouldn't be trading Brown away for a 6'2 guard on the wrong side of 30. The team is better for maybe a year or two. His contract is aligned with Tatum's too, so in 4 year we'll get to watch Tatum leave with Dame.
Yep you roll the dice on Tatum/Brown continuing to ascend to 2 Aces and look to surround them with 3 Jacks (complimentary players).

For many years, Danny & Co / Brad had a great track record of finding/developing Jacks.
 

cheech13

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Tatum and Dame are two of the 10-12 best players in the league. Put them together and you have a Lakers/Nets super team and you compete for a title the next 2-3 years. If the Blazers were willing to trade Dame for Brown you agree on the spot and hope they don’t change their mind before you call it into league.
 

Jimbodandy

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Jayson Tatum is 22 and has 5 more playoff wins than 30yo Damian Lillard. Just pointing that out.

Jaylen Brown has 11 more playoff wins than Damian Lillard.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Jayson Tatum is 22 and has 5 more playoff wins than 30yo Damian Lillard. Just pointing that out.

Jaylen Brown has 11 more playoff wins than Damian Lillard.
Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the two shall meet
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat
 

Bertha

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I believe that trading Kemba for a different bad contract could be addition by subtraction, as long as the return does not need to be a ball-dominant player. Even if the return never plays.

The issue is KW has become a hoops version of 3 true outcomes.
Sits out completely, plays well, plays poorly

This makes it hard for the team to find any rhythm due having an inconsistently available/inconsistently performing player who needs to be ball-dominant.

I would love if he could become that microwave scorer off the bench in small bursts, often against 2nd units. On nights he has it going, he gets more minutes. When he is not able to get the lift or explosion needed, he gets less minutes. While that role would be easy to accept for someone like Carsen Edwards, a former all-star is far less likely to embrace it. In order for him to succeed, he must have the confidence that he can beat anyone.

That confidence is both a strength of an NBA star, as well as their weakness as they decline.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Dame is no Curry. Yeah, he sometimes hits those half court shots but he has exactly 1 season over 40% from 3. He's super elite at creating shots, but I don't think his decline years moves the needle enough to get Tatum to the Finals if you have to send Brown out.

If you can get him by sending out Kemba+3 picks an some pick swaps, sure, but I doubt that's on the table.
 

the moops

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Found this interesting.

In 9 years, Damian Lillard has missed a total of 36 games.

In 5 years, Jaylen Brown has missed a total of 53 games
 

Nator

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Another thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is that Jaylen's game has had noticeable improvements every season.

I mean, I'd take Dame if the C's could hold onto the J-Crew, but no thank you otherwise, and I love Dame.
 

cheech13

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Jayson Tatum is 22 and has 5 more playoff wins than 30yo Damian Lillard. Just pointing that out.

Jaylen Brown has 11 more playoff wins than Damian Lillard.
These are definitely analogous situations as Dame also played in the East on teams that included Kyrie, Tatum or Brown, Hayward, Horford and Kemba and were coached by Brad Stevens.
 

TheRooster

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Is that a good thing? Kemba was super durable until he wasn't. Wear and tear is real.
 

Cellar-Door

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The team also isn't winning a title with just Tatum/Brown. That's kind of the point. Tatum/Brown/Dame.. now we are talking.
I assume you mean Tatum/Lillard.... and the answer to that is... if you can't build around Tatum/Lillard and compete, then you aren't going to compete building around Brown/Tatum.

If Tatum can't be paired with a top 5 offensive talent in the league to be a contender, you're basically screwed.

The idea that we can just add a top 10 player in the game to Tatum/Brown is silly, we have almost no assets other than Brown, holding him out in hopes that we can piece together an offer with every pick and detrius isn't likely.

I get it though, it's more fun to dream on Jaylen becoming a top 10 player and us pulling another star out of thin air than making the tough choice to compete now. Selling future hope is easier than selling future pain for short term gain.
 

Jimbodandy

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These are definitely analogous situations as Dame also played in the East on teams that included Kyrie, Tatum or Brown, Hayward, Horford and Kemba and were coached by Brad Stevens.
Lots of excuses, and a lot of them are valid.

That said, basketball is played at both ends of the court. And Lillard teams consistently suck at one end, leading to an atrocious playoff record for this supposed top 10 player.
 

Cellar-Door

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Lots of excuses, and a lot of them are valid.

That said, basketball is played at both ends of the court. And Lillard teams consistently suck at one end, leading to an atrocious playoff record for this supposed top 10 player.
Sure, he's not a good defender.... neither is Curry, but Curry played on a team with a good GM and coach, who stuck him with an elite 2 guard defender, and other top defenders.
Dame played in POR where they stuck him with CJ McCollum, Melo, Kanter and various other horrendous defenders, and a coach who doesn't care about defense.
The difference between Dame and other top 10-15 players is that he has refused to force his way out of a terrible situation out of a sense of loyalty.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I assume you mean Tatum/Lillard.... and the answer to that is... if you can't build around Tatum/Lillard and compete, then you aren't going to compete building around Brown/Tatum.

If Tatum can't be paired with a top 5 offensive talent in the league to be a contender, you're basically screwed.

The idea that we can just add a top 10 player in the game to Tatum/Brown is silly, we have almost no assets other than Brown, holding him out in hopes that we can piece together an offer with every pick and detrius isn't likely.

I get it though, it's more fun to dream on Jaylen becoming a top 10 player and us pulling another star out of thin air than making the tough choice to compete now. Selling future hope is easier than selling future pain for short term gain.
Nah, my previous post said they aren't competing with just Tatum and Dame. I thought it was fair to point out they aren't winning with just Tatum or Brown either.

I'm fully on board with a big 3 and have no expectations of Jaylen ever being more than a top 20-40 player. I think Tatum, JB and a player in between the two is the path to a title. Outside of Tatum becoming a top 5 player in the league, anyway.

Not an aging Dame + Tatum and a bunch of role players/vets. Even if it is a title window (I don't think it is), it shuts quickly.

What people who would trade Jaylen for Dame also trade him for Beal?
 

the moops

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During Lillard's tenure, POR lost to the eventual champion 3 times (SA, GSW, LAL) and western champion twice (GSW, GSW).

Sure, they had a couple stinkers in there (MEM and NO), but if that is going to be the measuring stick, there are very few players who would meet that mark
 

Cellar-Door

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Nah, my previous post said they aren't competing with just Tatum and Dame. I thought it was fair to point out they aren't winning with just Tatum or Brown either.

I'm fully on board with a big 3 and have no expectations of Jaylen ever being more than a top 20-40 player. I think Tatum, JB and a player in between the two is the path to a title. Outside of Tatum becoming a top 5 player in the league, anyway.

Not an aging Dame + Tatum and a bunch of role players/vets. Even if it is a title window (I don't think it is), it shuts quickly.

What people who would trade Jaylen for Dame also trade him for Beal?
I'm not 100% on Dame, his late years are scary, but I definitely wouldn't trade Jaylen for Beal, Lillard is a much better player than Beal.
 

Cesar Crespo

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During Lillard's tenure, POR lost to the eventual champion 3 times (SA, GSW, LAL) and western champion twice (GSW, GSW).

Sure, they had a couple stinkers in there (MEM and NO), but if that is going to be the measuring stick, there are very few players who would meet that mark
And the other 5 times they were bounced in the first round.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm not 100% on Dame, his late years are scary, but I definitely wouldn't trade Jaylen for Beal, Lillard is a much better player than Beal.
I wouldn't do either but I'd be far more confident about Beal 4 years from now than Dame.

Wasn't the board discussing Jaylen for Harden earlier this year, too?
 

cheech13

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I understand aging curves but Dame is 31, not 35, and is coming off the best season of his career. Barring a catastrophic unexpected injury he’s still going to be a top 5-10 player for the next 2-3 years. I swear sometimes players over 25 all get discussed as if they are seconds from their career falling off a cliff.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I understand aging curves but Dame is 31, not 35, and is coming off the best season of his career. Barring a catastrophic unexpected injury he’s still going to be a top 5-10 player for the next 2-3 years. I swear sometimes players over 25 all get discussed as if they are seconds from their career falling off a cliff.
Yeah, but he's not signed for the next 2 seasons. He's signed for the next 4. So the C's would have a two year window with Dame and Tatum and a roster that is severely lacking wings. Then they would be on the hook for 34 and 35 year old Dame.

If Dame was only signed for 2 more years, that would be more interesting. That would leave the C's with possibly only Jayson Tatum on the roster going into the 23/24 season. They could do a lot of stuff.
 

nighthob

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Are you saying you prefer Brown to Lillard?
It’s not just a talent comparison. Lillard’s on the wrong side of 30 and has a lot of mileage on him. And if Boston can’t make it work they likely lose Tatum when the time comes.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, but he's not signed for the next 2 seasons. He's signed for the next 4. So the C's would have a two year window with Dame and Tatum and a roster that is severely lacking wings. Then they would be on the hook for 34 and 35 year old Dame.

If Dame was only signed for 2 more years, that would be more interesting. That would leave the C's with possibly only Jayson Tatum on the roster going into the 23/24 season. They could do a lot of stuff.
I mean... the assumption that he falls off in 2 years is a big one. He has no known injuries, he's as likely to be 90% of what he is in 4 years as not. It could well be a 4 year window. And he can fall off an awful lot and still be 2nd best player on a title team worthy. He'll be 34 in the last year of his deal.. Steph is going to be 33 next year do we expect him to be bad? Mike Conley just had arguably the best year of his career at 33, Chris Paul is 35 and still great.

There is a risk that Lillard's last year or two could be bad, and even if he's good the $ is ridiculous, but the assumption that he'll face some rapid cliff in performance isn't really that well founded. The most likely outcome is that Lillard slips as he ages to only be a top 25 player not top 10-15.
 

Jimbodandy

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I understand aging curves but Dame is 31, not 35, and is coming off the best season of his career. Barring a catastrophic unexpected injury he’s still going to be a top 5-10 player for the next 2-3 years. I swear sometimes players over 25 all get discussed as if they are seconds from their career falling off a cliff.
He's a top 5 player now?

What other top 5 players (or top 10, for that matter) win a playoff series every 2-3 years?