Juwan Howard needs a time out

Average Reds

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Closest thing I can remember is Woody Hayes punching an opposing player in the 1978 Gator Bowl. He'd won 5 national championships at Ohio State and he still got fired. What's Juwan Howard won?
This seems a bit ridiculous.

Woody Hayes punched an opposing player without any provocation whatsoever. That’s an automatic firing for any college coach under any circumstances.

As I have made clear, I won’t defend Howard for his actions yesterday. But it’s not even close to what Hayes did.
 

Jimbodandy

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Suspended for the rest of the year is the right answer. There needs to significant penalties for this, but not a death sentence imo. I'd save that for abuse of players and others in inferior power positions, and of course other catastrophic malfeasance like some of the classic "coaches banging cheerleaders" and paying players to go there.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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This seems a bit ridiculous.

Woody Hayes punched an opposing player without any provocation whatsoever. That’s an automatic firing for any college coach under any circumstances.

As I have made clear, I won’t defend Howard for his actions yesterday. But it’s not even close to what Hayes did.
I agree that punching a player is worse, but what provocation did Howard have for hitting a coach? Who is it okay for him to hit and who is it not?

If I were to strike a peer of mine from another company at a conference or some other public event, I'd be fired.
 

DJnVa

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I agree that punching a player is worse, but what provocation did Howard have for hitting a coach? Who is it okay for him to hit and who is it not?
I mean, the guy grabbed his arm after Howard made a snotty comment to him, so....
 

TheRooster

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I think he should be fired but I bet he won't be. One key thing is that even if he is fired, his coaching career will not be over. Someone will hire him and relatively soon. Pitino keeps surfacing after all. Therefore a firing WILL send the correct message that coaches shouldn't engage in fisticuffs WITHOUT ruining his life.
 

RG33

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That is unacceptable behavior by Howard. The provaction from the Wisconsin coach touching him didn’t help, but that is not an excuse for Howard to then throw a punch-slap. I’m not in the “fire him” camp, but he should not be coaching another game this season/tournament.
 

cornwalls@6

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I'm in the season ending suspension camp. Don't think it's quite grounds for dismissal, unless a pattern of other bad conduct comes out, but he needs to receive significant discipline for this. As others have noted, he's supposed to be a leader of young athletes, and his conduct should be held to higher standard. He's also, after Harbaugh, probably the second most visible representative of the university. That privilege also comes with responsibilities regarding public conduct. We're in a different era, and a goon like Knight would never get away with the crap he did, for as long as he did, now. A loud, but not permanently career damaging, message needs to be sent. And it goes without saying, Howard should be on strike 2-1/2 now.
 
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benhogan

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BIG X will come down strong. This is my guess:
1. Howard fired. 2nd offense with another coach.
2. Wisc asst suspended
3. Players that shoved get a game.

Howard will get a job as an Asst in the NBA by next season, but his college career is over.
 

Jimbodandy

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BIG X will come down strong. This is my guess:
1. Howard fired. 2nd offense with another coach.
2. Wisc asst suspended
3. Players that shoved get a game.

Howard will get a job as an Asst in the NBA by next season, but his college career is over.
If that's the case, they'll need firing squads for the offenses that are orders of magnitude greater than what Howard did. I don't want to ruin this thread with examples, but we all know what they are. I'm not talking about harmlessly thrown chairs.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It turns out the assistant put hands on Howard himself, not on one of Michigan players. Thought I saw a player engaged with that coach on the replay. Obviously makes Howard’s actions less defensible that one of his players wasn’t involved, since I can’t imagine he feared for his personal safety in that situation.

Again, I think way too much is being made of this, but if Howard is going to sit five games (what they’ve got left before postseason tourneys) or more, others should be sitting too. If the Wisconsin head coach lets Howard pass without shaking his hand, or if the Wisconsin assistant pulls his boss away from the situation instead of laying his hands on Howard, we aren’t talking about this.
And if that guy didn't spill AH's drink... Just sounds like excuse after excuse.
 

canderson

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I'm in the season ending suspension camp. Don't think it's quite grounds for dismissal, unless a pattern of other bad conduct comes out, but he needs to receive significant discipline for this. As others have noted, he's supposed to be a leader of young athletes, and his conduct should be held to higher standard. He's also, after Harbaugh, probably the second most visible representative of the university. That privilege also comes with responsibilities regarding public conduct. We're in a different era, and a goon like Knight would never get away with the crap he did, for as long as he did, now. A loud, but not permanently career damaging, message needs to be sent. And it goes without saying, Howard should be on strike 2-1/2 now.
Well Howard tried to attack Maryland’s coach and had to be held back by nearly the entire coaching staff last season soooooo …
 

DJnVa

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Howard doesn't like late game TOs called by a team winning by a lot.

Well, unless...

49585
 

benhogan

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If that's the case, they'll need firing squads for the offenses that are orders of magnitude greater than what Howard did. I don't want to ruin this thread with examples, but we all know what they are. I'm not talking about harmlessly thrown chairs.
It's my guess.

This is the world we live in, I don't necessarily agree with the PC police, but universities roll like this.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If that's the case, they'll need firing squads for the offenses that are orders of magnitude greater than what Howard did. I don't want to ruin this thread with examples, but we all know what they are. I'm not talking about harmlessly thrown chairs.
Sure, but are those examples caught on video? That seems to matter a lot for whatever reason.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's my guess.

This is the world we live in, I don't necessarily agree with the PC police, but universities roll like this.
Oh yeah, it wouldn't be a surprise.

I have no horse in this race, college basketball, Michigan, or Juwon Howard. Just seems like dismissal should be saved for bigger things. Seems like a long suspension thing to me.
 

cornwalls@6

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Well Howard tried to attack Maryland’s coach and had to be held back by nearly the entire coaching staff last season soooooo …
I'm not sure that incident was as egregious as that, and certainly not on the level of yesterday, but if Michigan considered it a strike against him, and a justification for dismissal, I couldn't really argue with it.
 

Jimbodandy

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Sure, but are those examples caught on video? That seems to matter a lot for whatever reason.
Yeah Ray Rice says hi.

Honestly couldn't care less about what happens either way. If the window has moved that stuff like this (or way worse) ends in dismissal, that's probably not the worst thing in the world.
 

reggiecleveland

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Stupid unwritten rules. I don’t understand how one team can continue to play hard and expect the other team not to do likewise.
I agree with that, but when it's over you don't prolong it. If you have been on both sides you understand. It's a big game you got your ass handed to you, let the team get out of there. It's dumb to do things to antagonize the other team because the shoe will switch feet. Every coach has been through it. You are really primed for a big game and then other team and coach own you. You have to sit there and take it. It's rough. It seems like you have been sitting there for 6 hours. "We have all been there" is a common refrain to say to a coach that just got blasted. Yeah we all vary a bit. I don't run the score up, but we play hard. And if my guy gets a steal that sends him on a breakaway he is going in, and if he can dunk, dunk it. It's in my interest, even at the pro l;evel not to antagonize my opponents. The other coach got salty when a kid on my team dunked when we were way up with 20 seconds left. I went right to the coach "Hey this guy has never dunked, doesn't play much...etc" I don't owe that guy anything, but why antagonize him?

Unwritten rules can be great too. They generally come from mutual respect, and sportsmanship. Dribbling the clock out is pretty new, and at first I hated it. But, it cools off the tension at the end of a tough game, while some guy trying to dunk over somebody or jack up 3s in garbage time usually made things worse. I used to not like dribbling the clock out now, but I like it now. Especially with dumb covid rules where kids play against each other but don't shake hands. It is good role-modelling for the fans and parents. "Gee my son actually seems to respect #8 even though I thought he was a demon and fouling him every play." 'Wow Tatum is high-fiving Kyrie, maybe I should stop praying for Kyrie's death."
 

biollante

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I certainly wouldn't hire a coach that punches/slaps other coaches.
Pretty weird to do something like that as a "professional" but people are more and more resorting to violence to solve their differences.

If you are a smart coach, you just get back at the opposing team the next game.

I'm curious to see what the university does.
 

benhogan

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Oh yeah, it wouldn't be a surprise.

I have no horse in this race, college basketball, Michigan, or Juwon Howard. Just seems like dismissal should be saved for bigger things. Seems like a long suspension thing to me.
Yea, me neither. We've got bigger fish to fry with the C's

Universities are firing coaches for yelling at/humiliating/bullying their own players in practice. I imagine this stuff will also cost you your job

I just don't want to go full Zapruder with Juwan's slap... back and across the face, back and across the face o_O
 

canderson

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I'm not sure that incident was as egregious as that, and certainly not on the level of yesterday, but if Michigan considered it a strike against him, and a justification for dismissal, I couldn't really argue with it.
He was screaming that he would kill Turgeon, so a pattern of unpredictability is there imo. He also got a tech in the last minute of the OSU blowout a week or two ago (where he himself called a TD late up 14 or so)
 
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Average Reds

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I agree that punching a player is worse, but what provocation did Howard have for hitting a coach? Who is it okay for him to hit and who is it not?

If I were to strike a peer of mine from another company at a conference or some other public event, I'd be fired.
I do not know why he did so, nor did I say it was OK. I’m fact, I said pretty much the exact opposite.

I just don’t think the Woody Hayes comp is the right one. YMMV.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Howard clearly has anger management issues, and he let his emotions get out of control and led to the brawl. However, Gard is at fault as well...he should have let Howard walk by as Howard clearly didn't want, nor need, to shake hands. I don't blame Gard for calling the timeout, but his petty "need" to explain himself to an agitated Howard obviously escalated matters.
 

HurstSoGood

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This is going to set back race relations in the upper mid-west a whole 10 minutes.
 

dhappy42

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Why did Howard hit Krabbenhoft? What did Krabbenhoft say or do to prompt Howard to re-enter the fray after arguing with Gard?
 
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Tony C

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The only person who it would be understandable for Juwan Howard to punch for calling a timeout with so little time left would be Chris Webber.

Coaches can’t be allowed to physically harm other coaches. He needs to at least be suspended for the rest of the season.
I don't think the Webber line got the love it deserves.

And, yeah, I don't get the excuses for Howard. It's funny, I hadn't seen the Bobby Knight thing in ages. Aside from a reminder of what an insufferable ass he was, I have to admit that in my head it had become that he'd thrown a chair at a ref as opposed to across the floor at nobody While I agree that Woody Hayes punching a player is worse than Howard's punch/slap, if Knight set the other standard for out of control college coach I'd put Howard's punch/slap over that.

Rest of the season including post-season seems right to me.
 

soxhop411

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I don't think the Webber line got the love it deserves.

And, yeah, I don't get the excuses for Howard. It's funny, I hadn't seen the Bobby Knight thing in ages. Aside from a reminder of what an insufferable ass he was, I have to admit that in my head it had become that he'd thrown a chair at a ref as opposed to across the floor at nobody While I agree that Woody Hayes punching a player is worse than Howard's punch/slap, if Knight set the other standard for out of control college coach I'd put Howard's punch/slap over that.

Rest of the season including post-season seems right to me.
I honestly wonder if knight would have lasted as long as he did as a coach if he tried to coach like that today.
His coaching style was down right abusive which would not fly in todays world regardless of what your record is. (And rightly so)
 

curly2

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I hadn't seen the Bobby Knight thing in ages. Aside from a reminder of what an insufferable ass he was, I have to admit that in my head it had become that he'd thrown a chair at a ref as opposed to across the floor at nobody While I agree that Woody Hayes punching a player is worse than Howard's punch/slap, if Knight set the other standard for out of control college coach I'd put Howard's punch/slap over that.
I disagree. Howard was in the wrong and should get a suspension, but it was after the game, he was (unjustifiably IMO) pissed off and tried to blow off the handshake. If Gard let him go, the story is "Juwan Howard is a sore loser" and it dies.

Knight's think happened DURING the game, which makes it worse -- to me, at least.
 

snowmanny

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For those of you saying he should be fired, would it be OK for another school to hire him in about two months?

Stupid. Deserves punishment. Wisconsin coaches didn’t cover themselves in glory either. Not sure why the HC blocked Howard’s path and why the other guy got into it with a player. But sure Howard’s action was worse. It wasn’t like 10% of a Kermit punch but shouldn’t happen.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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For those of you saying he should be fired, would it be OK for another school to hire him in about two months?

Stupid. Deserves punishment. Wisconsin coaches didn’t cover themselves in glory either. Not sure why the HC blocked Howard’s path and why the other guy got into it with a player. But sure Howard’s action was worse. It wasn’t like 10% of a Kermit punch but shouldn’t happen.
I would expect he will end up as an assistant in a mid major this fall, or head coach of a smaller D1 team in the fall of 2023.
 

joe dokes

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The most I see Michigan doing is suspending him for the rest of the regular season.
 

snowmanny

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I would expect he will end up as an assistant in a mid major this fall, or head coach of a smaller D1 team in the fall of 2023.
He was mentioned for head coaching jobs at the NBA level months ago so I think you are way underselling his future. This isn’t even a crime.
 

Tony C

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Seems like a light penalty to me and I worry about the precedent, but also appreciate what Barnes said. If Howard hadn't recently had a similar incident I'd be more comfortable with this.

He was mentioned for head coaching jobs at the NBA level months ago so I think you are way underselling his future. This isn’t even a crime.
He's very much been in the discussion for NBA jobs, but you have to wonder how much this will hurt him in that regard. A coach who can't control his emotions really hurts his professional standing, which might be the real penalty here.
 

ekim colorwaterpit

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Seems like a light penalty to me and I worry about the precedent, but also appreciate what Barnes said. If Howard hadn't recently had a similar incident I'd be more comfortable with this.
I completely agree with this. The other thing that is puzzling and I am surprised didn't play into a longer suspension is the complete lack of accountability Howard showed for either incident.
 

Tony C

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Right, I agree and it connects to ekim's point that it would been good if at the least this was preceded by some form of apology/responsibility-taking.
 

OCST

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I disagree. Howard was in the wrong and should get a suspension, but it was after the game, he was (unjustifiably IMO) pissed off and tried to blow off the handshake. If Gard let him go, the story is "Juwan Howard is a sore loser" and it dies.
I might be the only guy but I’m on Team Howard here. He tries to walk past the guy and WI guy puts his hands on him, grabs him, forcefully. If WI guy doesn’t think it’s his petogative to grab another man this doesn’t happen.
 

strek1

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I might be the only guy but I’m on Team Howard here. He tries to walk past the guy and WI guy puts his hands on him, grabs him, forcefully. If WI guy doesn’t think it’s his petogative to grab another man this doesn’t happen.
2 problems with that. The guy who grabbed him isn't the one he smacked. And Howard has a history of this behavior.
 

joe dokes

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2 problems with that. The guy who grabbed him isn't the one he smacked. And Howard has a history of this behavior.
3. Among adults, "hitting a guy in the face" is not a reasonable response to getting your arm grabbed like that.