Just What is Apex Mountain: Rewatchables discussion thread

Leather

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Margin Call! I really liked this movie. And with Russillo! And Koppelman.
 

luckiestman

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For me Koppleman is a huge energy vampire. It’s like listening to a lecture by a condescending yet weirdly emotional/sentimental prof. I’m sure he is a nice man with a family so I won’t insult him any further.
 

CaptainLaddie

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where the darn libs live
What did he find sell out-y about GnR? Obviously they were huge, but their music and style and behavior didn’t seem to change much over their career, unless I missed things.
Worth pointing out this incredible fact:

- Use Your Illusion I & II get released on September 17, 1991
- Nevermind, Low End Theory, and Blood Sugar Sex Magik get released on September 24, 1991.

It's like a line in the sand. The 1990s thematically started on September 24, 1991.
 

CaptainLaddie

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Guys, sorry to make you aware of the fact that Blood Sugar Sex Magik is a significantly bigger and more important album. And I love Pixies.

But “Give It Away” and “Under The Bridge” are two of the, like, twenty biggest alt rock songs of the 90s?

I mean, I’d put Screamadelica over Trompe in terms of cultural impact.
 

Marciano490

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RHCP were always a lame hair band to me and Under the Bridge is just Every Rose Has Its Thorn with worse lyrics. If we’re talking about the week that changed rock, what’s their legacy - 311 and Sublime and the other white ska bands?
 

ManicCompression

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RHCP were always a lame hair band to me and Under the Bridge is just Every Rose Has Its Thorn with worse lyrics. If we’re talking about the week that changed rock, what’s their legacy - 311 and Sublime and the other white ska bands?
Co-sign. "Give it Away" is not one of the biggest alt rock songs of the nineties. I'd argue Bedrock Anthem has more cultural cache.
 

Shelterdog

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Worth pointing out this incredible fact:

- Use Your Illusion I & II get released on September 17, 1991
- Nevermind, Low End Theory, and Blood Sugar Sex Magik get released on September 24, 1991.

It's like a line in the sand. The 1990s thematically started on September 24, 1991.
Then blood sugar sex magik should have been released on September 17, 1991.

Wouldn't really want to pin the pixies greatness to trompe le monde which I love but in my mind probably about the fourth best of their first four albums and certainly not a pivotal moment for them; they had already firmly established loud quiet loud already by 88 and even the slowed up version of wave of mutilation in pump up the volume [where they sold out maybe?] was 1990.
 

CaptainLaddie

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RHCP were always a lame hair band to me and Under the Bridge is just Every Rose Has Its Thorn with worse lyrics. If we’re talking about the week that changed rock, what’s their legacy - 311 and Sublime and the other white ska bands?
Oh GOD please do not put RHCP in the same category as 311 or Sublime. I mean, I like Sublime, but they're not in the RHCP sphere.

I'm not even a huge RHCP fan but I can list 20 of great songs by them. In fact, here they are: Aeroplane, Around The World, Breaking The Girl, By The Way, Californication, Can't Stop, Dani California, Dosed, Fortune Faded, The Getaway, Give It Away, Go Robot, Higher Ground, My Friends, Otherside, Parallel Universe, Scar Tissue, Soul To Squeeze, Suck My Kiss, Tell Me Baby, Under The Bridge, The Zephyr Song (that's 22).

I think you're vastly underrating the influence of Flea and Frusciante. Everyone from Kanye to Pearl Jam have said they're been influenced (Pearl Jam even said they wouldn't have existed without RHCP). RATM as well. Anderson .Paak leans heavily on some of the groovier, funkier RHCP songs, and he's been his love of them known. Primus as well.
 

CaptainLaddie

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Co-sign. "Give it Away" is not one of the biggest alt rock songs of the nineties. I'd argue Bedrock Anthem has more cultural cache.
What on earth? The video was inescapable for years on MTV. I mean, as you pointed out, it was big enough for Weird Al to parody it AND make a video for that parody. Not that Grammys really matter, but it won the Grammy for Best Hard Rock Performance in 1993.
 

Marciano490

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Oh GOD please do not put RHCP in the same category as 311 or Sublime. I mean, I like Sublime, but they're not in the RHCP sphere.

I'm not even a huge RHCP fan but I can list 20 of great songs by them. In fact, here they are: Aeroplane, Around The World, Breaking The Girl, By The Way, Californication, Can't Stop, Dani California, Dosed, Fortune Faded, The Getaway, Give It Away, Go Robot, Higher Ground, My Friends, Otherside, Parallel Universe, Scar Tissue, Soul To Squeeze, Suck My Kiss, Tell Me Baby, Under The Bridge, The Zephyr Song (that's 22).

I think you're vastly underrating the influence of Flea and Frusciante. Everyone from Kanye to Pearl Jam have said they're been influenced (Pearl Jam even said they wouldn't have existed without RHCP). RATM as well. Anderson .Paak leans heavily on some of the groovier, funkier RHCP songs, and he's been his love of them known. Primus as well.
Ok you got me with RATM and Paak. I’m still gonna keep hating Kiedis though.
 

Bozo Texino

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I just remembered Axl said something pretty brutal - but perhaps not unfair - about Courtney taking heroin when pregnant with Frances Bean. I’m not sure where that fits in with the rivalry/GnR hatred timeline.

That selling out shit was so tiresome in the 90s. Always thought hip hop guys must’ve been cracking up at the alternative and punk guys -you guys are doing it wrong, the more we brag about our money, the more our fans love us.
Axl did reference Lynn Hirschberg's infamous Vanity Fair article onstage. In fact, he did so five days before the two were slated to appear at the 1992 MTV Video Music Awards - a broadcast that was a VERY big deal for a young Bozo Texino. Anyway, this whole thing happened after Nirvana had rejected his offer to open for GNR and Metallica on their big tour. Axl referred to Cobain as "a junkie with a junkie wife" and said "if the baby is born deformed, I think they both ought to go to prison."

The best part of the story is what happened at the VMAs. There, Courtney needled Axl by repeatedly asking him if he'd be their daughter's godfather. Axl responded by telling Kurt "You better shut your bitch up, or I'm taking you down to the pavement." Kurt responded in kind by deadpanning to Courtney "Shut up, bitch."

The whole thing really encapsulates both singers' vibes.

EDIT: Axl also claimed to have invited NWA to open for GNR on one of their early tours. That would've been rad, if only because it would've caused Pat Buchanan's head to explode.
 

ManicCompression

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What on earth? The video was inescapable for years on MTV. I mean, as you pointed out, it was big enough for Weird Al to parody it AND make a video for that parody. Not that Grammys really matter, but it won the Grammy for Best Hard Rock Performance in 1993.
Yeah, I'm just joking around. RHCP are just so fucking corny. They've been a dealbreaker band for me in relationships along with Imagine Dragons and Aerosmith.
 

ManicCompression

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Doo doo doo doo dingle zing a dong bone Ba-di ba-da ba-zumba crunga cong gone bad

Yeah, that one is kind of a guilty pleasure. The Coneheads soundtrack was really weird - I'm just remembering that Barenaked Ladies cover of Fight the Power that couldn't have aged well.
 

Leather

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I don't even mind RHCP; it's stupid fun music. But how is something off of Blood Sugar Sex Magic, released on Warner Records and produced by Rick Rubin, "alt rock"?

It was just "rock".
 

Remagellan

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Can you guys move all this music talk to The Ringer thread? This thread is supposed to be about The Rewatchables podcast, not the 60 Songs that Explain the 90s pod. I'm fine with a minor threadjack from time to time, but when it goes on for more than two pages, it really should be split off to its own thread or find a more appropriate one.

I enjoyed the Margin Call episode. (Back on thread!)
 

Leather

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Can you guys move all this music talk to The Ringer thread? This thread is supposed to be about The Rewatchables podcast, not the 60 Songs that Explain the 90s pod. I'm fine with a minor threadjack from time to time, but when it goes on for more than two pages, it really should be split off to its own thread or find a more appropriate one.

I enjoyed the Margin Call episode. (Back on thread!)
Yeah, I did too. I am not sure I found the characters *all* as deeply immoral and awful as some of the hosts did. I think it was pretty clear that everyone existed in a varying shade of gray, which was sort of a metaphor for the financial industry as a whole (from the investors to the banks to the regulators), where the only "real" victims are the ones that aren't involved at all but get fucked anyway.

And I really could not see Tom Hanks or even Russell Crowe in the Spacey part. He was so perfect at privileged-with-a-touch-of-grievance smarm. If you had to recast it today, I'd actually say Steve Carrell would be a decent fit. That part is supposed to be at least somewhat sympathetic; he's the one guy with some power that is trying to do the "right" thing, even if it's unclear what his motivations are.
 

Shelterdog

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Yeah, I did too. I am not sure I found the characters *all* as deeply immoral and awful as some of the hosts did. I think it was pretty clear that everyone existed in a varying shade of gray, which was sort of a metaphor for the financial industry as a whole (from the investors to the banks to the regulators), where the only "real" victims are the ones that aren't involved at all but get fucked anyway.

And I really could not see Tom Hanks or even Russell Crowe in the Spacey part. He was so perfect at privileged-with-a-touch-of-grievance smarm.
I've got a brilliant idea! Our sleazy fixed income trader will be played by Tom Hanks! What can go wrong?


55706

[The substantive point there is that Koppelman is right, that Hanks isn't sleazy or underhanded enough to be right for the role. You have to buy that Spacey would ultimately burn all his clients, be fine with half his team getting canned, etc. in order to keep paying for a third house and a second wife.]
 
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Mystic Merlin

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Yeah, I did too. I am not sure I found the characters *all* as deeply immoral and awful as some of the hosts did. I think it was pretty clear that everyone existed in a varying shade of gray, which was sort of a metaphor for the financial industry as a whole (from the investors to the banks to the regulators), where the only "real" victims are the ones that aren't involved at all but get fucked anyway.

And I really could not see Tom Hanks or even Russell Crowe in the Spacey part. He was so perfect at privileged-with-a-touch-of-grievance smarm. If you had to recast it today, I'd actually say Steve Carrell would be a decent fit. That part is supposed to be at least somewhat sympathetic; he's the one guy with some power that is trying to do the "right" thing, even if it's unclear what his motivations are.
Penn Badgley as ‘the worst’ character from a moral/ethical perspective is quite a take from Koppelman, and I’m only 7 minutes in!
 

allstonite

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I’m only about halfway through but Koppelman saying Penn Badgley’s character was clearly the worst person of all the characters was baffling. He was maybe the most sympathetic of all of them. He was a little annoying to the older generation but to me he was just a young, brash, naive kid who was just coming to grips with what was actually happening. Irons was the worst and his speech at the end about all the times this happened before and saying it will happen again but he’d be fine cemented that.

Also I only just watched this movie for the first time Koppelman saying it was one of the most rewatchable movies of the past 10 years was weird too. It was well made, great writing and great acting but it’s like 1/10th as rewatchable as The Big Short and that’s just sticking in this exact genre. We just have vastly different tastes
 

Shelterdog

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I’m only about halfway through but Koppelman saying Penn Badgley’s character was clearly the worst person of all the characters was baffling. He was maybe the most sympathetic of all of them. He was a little annoying to the older generation but to me he was just a young, brash, naive kid who was just coming to grips with what was actually happening. Irons was the worst and his speech at the end about all the times this happened before and saying it will happen again but he’d be fine cemented that.

Also I only just watched this movie for the first time Koppelman saying it was one of the most rewatchable movies of the past 10 years was weird too. It was well made, great writing and great acting but it’s like 1/10th as rewatchable as The Big Short and that’s just sticking in this exact genre. We just have vastly different tastes
I think Koppelman probably suffers from being active in the industry. He clearly wants Zach Quinto to be in billions, he's probably trying to butter up others for whatever purposes, and he's certainly not going to crap all over people. Hard to say Simon Baker is a hack when, well, maybe you need him someday (or somebody who has the same agent, or whatever).

Koppelman's I've the entire ouevre of JC Chandor and I watch this movie all the time gave me big "bicycyle thief in the Player" vibes; had a feel of someone who makes some kind of shlocky stuff discussing how he's a true artist.
 
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Leather

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Penn Badgley as ‘the worst’ character from a moral/ethical perspective is quite a take from Koppelman, and I’m only 7 minutes in!
I’m only about halfway through but Koppelman saying Penn Badgley’s character was clearly the worst person of all the characters was baffling. He was maybe the most sympathetic of all of them. He was a little annoying to the older generation but to me he was just a young, brash, naive kid who was just coming to grips with what was actually happening. Irons was the worst and his speech at the end about all the times this happened before and saying it will happen again but he’d be fine cemented that.

Also I only just watched this movie for the first time Koppelman saying it was one of the most rewatchable movies of the past 10 years was weird too. It was well made, great writing and great acting but it’s like 1/10th as rewatchable as The Big Short and that’s just sticking in this exact genre. We just have vastly different tastes
I kind of get where he's coming from; Badgely's character is the one most interested in the completely superficial elements of money and finance. He has absolutely zero interest in contemplating what it means to society, much less how things impact other people. He doesn't even care enough to rationalize it away like Irons' character does.

But yeah; he's also incredibly callow. He doesn't *care* because he doesn't know *enough to care.* All he knows is get job-make money-live large. And (what the movie doesn't get into), that's exactly what the higher-ups at the banks really want from people like him. "Yes! Work hard for us! And you will make LOTS OF MONEY!" It's similar to new associates at law firms: work your ass off, be miserable, but the money will be great! So it's kind of hard to blame him as he's really the closest thing to a casualty out of any of the characters. After all, he's the only one that has to live through that experience and not get added compensation for doing so. He's totally disposable, even knowing what he knows.

The worst person, IMO, is Simon Baker's character, who (prior to the movie taking place) had somehow convinced Irons' character to disregard Demi Moore's warnings, and then maneuvered to get her fired, anyway, because his skills were now more valuable as a result of his own shitty machinations. Sure, Irons is the one that makes the call, but he's got some rationalizations that make sense: it's going to get bad no matter what, so we can either come out ahead or come out without jobs. But Baker just wants to shiv people.

As to the re-watchability... This and The Big Short are completely different in tone and scope. Aside from the time period and some of the key story elements revolving around the same things, they really have nothing in common. The Big Short is like a documentary/comedy. Margin Call is a workplace thriller.
 
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Spelunker

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Holy fuck: it's here. Boogie Nights. 2 parts*. Four hours and twenty minutes total. Bill, Chris, and Sean.

Buckle up.

(*Presumably split on the 1980 lil Bill transition)
 

Marciano490

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Holy fuck: it's here. Boogie Nights. 2 parts*. Four hours and twenty minutes total. Bill, Chris, and Sean.

Buckle up.

(*Presumably split on the 1980 lil Bill transition)
Wait how do I podcast? I just go into iTunes and buy?
 

johnmd20

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Boogie Nights was obviously an awesome Rewatchables. Just a blast and they do deep and meander in a great way. It is funny that Simmons can't talk. He must have said, "PTI 15 times."

Los of cock talk. Most of it very funny.
 

Remagellan

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That's awesome! This would have been at the top of my list of "I can't believe they haven't done this one yet". And I'm glad they didn't overthink this, as I'm sure there could have brought in a lot of people for this one, but Bill, Chris, and Sean are the best crew to handle this movie. Can't wait to listen to it on my hike today!
 

CreedBratton

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Wow I can’t believe they finally did Boogie Nights. Bill always said he would end the rewatchables once they did it, but I doubt they will, too many other big movies left.
 

johnmd20

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Wow I can’t believe they finally did Boogie Nights. Bill always said he would end the rewatchables once they did it, but I doubt they will, too many other big movies left.
Plenty of jokes on this podcast about how this is the last Rewatchables. But it's also one of the most popular pods on the Ringer Network, so it's not going anywhere.
 

Shelterdog

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Wait how do I podcast? I just go into iTunes and buy?
Wait what? You've never listened to a podcast? That's an extreme outlier on this thread.

Please please please tell me you at least wear white new balance sneakers or own a few LL Bean Chamois shirts, otherwise not sure you're allowed to hang out here any more.
 

Kliq

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The movie I can't believe they haven't done is LA Story; seems like the perfect type of movie they would do for the pod. I need to have a long discussion about Steve Martin's outfits in that movie; he dresses like a 90 year old man.
 

Leather

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The movie I can't believe they haven't done is LA Story; seems like the perfect type of movie they would do for the pod. I need to have a long discussion about Steve Martin's outfits in that movie; he dresses like a 90 year old man.
Aliens and National Lampoons Vacation remain the two that I can't believe they haven't done yet.
 

Bozo Texino

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Very glad they've finally done Boogie Nights. I've only heard the first 30 minutes or so, but I'm excited to get to the rest.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I’m halfway through and it’s as good as you would expect, which is pretty fucking great. Not sure the last time I re-watched BN, but I’m going to this weekend. I know Simmons catches a lot of shit on SOSH, he doesn’t bother me as much as he bothers others, but this was one of the few rewatchable pods where I wanted him to shut the fuck up so I could hear what Ryan and Fennessey had to say.

In terms of movies they haven’t done yet, to me Boogie Nights and Pulp Fiction were the #1 and 2 on the list.
 

allstonite

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This was Apex Mountain Rewatchables. Just so great and I’m sure I missed some gold accidentally zoning out for a few because it’s OVER 4 HOURS LONG. This made me so happy. What a great movie and perfect for this podcast
 

Spelunker

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I may be re-listening on a plane right now.

This is the apex of Chris & Sean clapping back at Bill.
 

jmcc5400

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Heads up - Boogie Nights leaves Netflix after Friday.
Thanks for this - watched it up to Feel, Feel, Feel My Heat last night and hadn't seen it in years. Seeing Phil Hoffman so young and at his chameleonic best made me so sad. What a loss.
 

Spelunker

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Also, I really feel like CR missed out on a "I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS WORKING WITH SUPER COCK!"
 

Leather

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Not super crazy about Fennessy’s recasting ideas.

Kevin Costner would be awful as Jack Horner. And I think he picked Chastain purely because she has the same hair color as Julianne Moore.