Just What is Apex Mountain: Rewatchables discussion thread

jmcc5400

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So what do you all think is the most rewatchable scene? I rewatched the Sister Christian/Molina scene yesterday and it is a masterpiece of increasing tension. Even knowing what happens, I felt my stomach knotting.
The first time I saw it, when Molina starts pantomiming Russian roulette with the firecrackers going off I could barely watch. And the long, drawn-out shot of Wahlberg's face is just incredible.
 

Leather

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So what do you all think is the most rewatchable scene? I rewatched the Sister Christian/Molina scene yesterday and it is a masterpiece of increasing tension. Even knowing what happens, I felt my stomach knotting.
The first time I saw it, when Molina starts pantomiming Russian roulette with the firecrackers going off I could barely watch. And the long, drawn-out shot of Wahlberg's face is just incredible.
The first party scene and the montage of Dirk while they voice-over his clippings are my faves. Just... I've never seen people having such a good fucking time on screen before, and it's...wholesome? Despite all the crazy sex and shit going on? Because it's ultimately about finding your place and family. It made *me* feel like I was having a good time.

And not to backtrack but I really don't see Drew Barrymore in this movie. It was so amazing when it came out because it felt like it was two people pulled out of mothballs (Reynolds and Wahlberg), and a bunch of talented nobodies that we hadn't really seen before. Having DB in it would have turned a minor character into something completely different.
 

jmcc5400

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The first party scene and the montage of Dirk while they voice-over his clippings are my faves. Just... I've never seen people having such a good fucking time on screen before, and it's...wholesome? Despite all the crazy sex and shit going on? Because it's ultimately about finding your place and family. It made *me* feel like I was having a good time.

And not to backtrack but I really don't see Drew Barrymore in this movie. It was so amazing when it came out because it felt like it was two people pulled out of mothballs (Reynolds and Wahlberg), and a bunch of talented nobodies that we hadn't really seen before. Having DB in it would have turned a minor character into something completely different.
Eddie and Reed meeting and bonding at that first party is wonderful. Simmons put it well when he said it was how third graders make friends. Wholesome, is an oddly apt way to put it, and it is bookended by a similarly (and even more overtly) wholesome scene at the end - Roller Girl literally is being told to clean up her room with the kind of eye-rolling parental affection usually reserved for commercials or multi-cam sit coms. All that's missing is a laugh track.

Completely agree about Barrymore. The recasting ideas are all bad on this one.
 

Leather

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And Simmons totally says "oral painting" multiple times even after he's informed he said it.

EDIT: also some crazy half-assed internet research I just came across - when he's selling stereo equipment at the beginning of the movie, Buck refers to an obviously bullshit thing called a TK421 that makes the stereo sound good. The year is 1977, the year Star Wars was released, and TK421 is the ID of the stormtrooper that Han Solo blasts and then has to pretend to be while talking over a comm on the Death Star. Meaning, it's just some random thing Buck had on his mind probably from seeing the movie and tossed it out there to make the sale.
 
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allstonite

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Eddie and Reed meeting and bonding at that first party is wonderful. Simmons put it well when he said it was how third graders make friends.
Hey you workout at Vince’s? Oh no I would have seen you. I’m there every day
 

Remagellan

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Eddie and Reed meeting and bonding at that first party is wonderful. Simmons put it well when he said it was how third graders make friends. Wholesome, is an oddly apt way to put it, and it is bookended by a similarly (and even more overtly) wholesome scene at the end - Roller Girl literally is being told to clean up her room with the kind of eye-rolling parental affection usually reserved for commercials or multi-cam sit coms. All that's missing is a laugh track.

Completely agree about Barrymore. The recasting ideas are all bad on this one.
It's ridiculous to try to recast a movie that is perfectly cast. Even Melora Walters, whom Simmons tries to ding, is great in this movie.
 

allstonite

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Everything that comes out of John C. Reilly's mouth in that movie is pure gold. Actually, everything he does is pure gold. (Thinking about Reed dancing in the booth while Dirk records "You Got the Touch").
A lot of people say he looks like Han Solo

It's ridiculous to try to recast a movie that is perfectly cast. Even Melora Walters, whom Simmons tries to ding, is great in this movie.
I agree but the Sidney Sweeney part was hilarious. At least he’s acknowledging his huge crush on her and in on the bit. It was weird a few months ago when he would keep mentioning her out of nowhere
 

Remagellan

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Could just be available for rent/purchase.
I just called it up on Comcast and that seems to be the case. It usually will indicate if a movie is available on one of the streamers (including tubi, PlutoTV, and Freevee). For instance, Phantom Thread comes up with the same Rent/Buy option, but with a note that it is available on Netflix. Boogie Nights just comes up with the Rent/Buy option.
 

Marciano490

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Everything that comes out of John C. Reilly's mouth in that movie is pure gold. Actually, everything he does is pure gold. (Thinking about Reed dancing in the booth while Dirk records "You Got the Touch").
He’s so incredible in this movie. It seemed clear from the script Reed was supposed to be a bigger dude, but nobody could’ve played it better than Reilly.
 

Eric1984

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I just called it up on Comcast and that seems to be the case. It usually will indicate if a movie is available on one of the streamers (including tubi, PlutoTV, and Freevee). For instance, Phantom Thread comes up with the same Rent/Buy option, but with a note that it is available on Netflix. Boogie Nights just comes up with the Rent/Buy option.
I started rewatching on Netflix on Friday night after listening to the whole 4 hours of Rewatchables on my commute the previous 3 days. But I started watching late and I had a brutal week so I packed it in for the night with a half-hour left, just before Dirk, Reed and Todd Parker visit Rahad. I had no idea that was the last night it was on Netflix so when I went to finish it last night, I ended up just having to rent it on Prime to see the rest. Should have paid another 5 bucks to buy it, actually. Maybe next time...

It was really cool rewatching it after listening to the pod. It also brought up some questions. First, unless I missed something, I don't recall them mentioning Rahad 's best, most absurd line, "Come on you puppies!" Also -- watching the film, and I don't recall them discussing this either (though my attention wavered at times) -- was Little Bill's wife (played by a porn actress) supposed to be a porn actress herself? Or was she just an unfaithful wife with access to a lot of horny dudes thanks to her husband's work? That would seem to make more sense, since someone who makes the decision to marry a porn star would need to make peace with the idea of her having sex with a lot of different men, even if it's just for professional reasons, and wouldn't then be as tormented by her infidelity as he was. Finally, they referred to Sheryl Lynn (Eddie Adams's girlfriend before he became Dirk Diggler) buying Eddie's parents' house. I didn't catch that on my rewatching -- was it a "blink an eye and miss it" kind of thing? I'd seen the movie a few times before over the years and always absolutely loved it but had never really examined it that closely.

Also -- I was curious what happened to the oil painting of Little Bill that's seen hanging on Jack Horner's wall just before the final scene. I have no idea if this is true, but if so, pretty cool story:

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/404uey/what_happened_to_the_painting_of_william_h_macy/
 
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JRedburn

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Finally, they referred to Sheryl Lynn (Eddie Adams's girlfriend before he became Dirk Diggler) buying Eddie's parents' house. I didn't catch that on my rewatching -- was it a "blink an eye and miss it" kind of thing? I'd seen the movie a few times before over the years and always absolutely loved it but had never really examined it that closely.
That was part of the deleted scenes discussion, so something they wrote and filmed but wasn’t in the released movie.
 

Eric1984

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OK -- that makes sense. I need to look for some of the deleted scenes.
 

8slim

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The Boogie Nights episode was absolutely epic. It was so good that I've re-listened to several parts.

One note, I believe the movie is currently streaming for free (with ads) on the Roku Channel.

I'm so old that I watched it this past weekend on DVD. First DVD I've watched in years. It was oddly satisfying. As convenient as streaming is, I kinda miss the DVD experience.
 

Remagellan

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The Boogie Nights episode was absolutely epic. It was so good that I've re-listened to several parts.

One note, I believe the movie is currently streaming for free (with ads) on the Roku Channel.

I'm so old that I watched it this past weekend on DVD. First DVD I've watched in years. It was oddly satisfying. As convenient as streaming is, I kinda miss the DVD experience.
I can relate, although I don't miss having a tower for DVDs, and a tower for CDs, and a tower for video games cluttering up my room. (R.I.P. physical media)
 

luckiestman

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Did you guys listen to parent corner? Here is the Rewatchables relevance. Sal and Bill talkin' Cali High School football reminded me of the scene in Training Day that they talked about with the character who had an encyclopedic knowledge of that football scene. Seemed like they were both trying to become that guy.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The Boogie Nights episode was absolutely epic. It was so good that I've re-listened to several parts.

One note, I believe the movie is currently streaming for free (with ads) on the Roku Channel.

I'm so old that I watched it this past weekend on DVD. First DVD I've watched in years. It was oddly satisfying. As convenient as streaming is, I kinda miss the DVD experience.
Yup. I re-watched after listening too and honestly I feel like there’s a shitload going on in that movie that I’ve never really caught, even after seeing it 20+ times. In particular Ryan and Fennessey were so good in this episode.
 

Marciano490

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Did you guys listen to parent corner? Here is the Rewatchables relevance. Sal and Bill talkin' Cali High School football reminded me of the scene in Training Day that they talked about with the character who had an encyclopedic knowledge of that football scene. Seemed like they were both trying to become that guy.
Didn’t turn out too well for that dude though.
 

johnmd20

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Listened to the Pitch Perfect episode. It was solid, but certainly not the best by far. The word "energy" was used at least 30 times. Everything had an "energy". Try hard "energy", toxic "energy", alternative "energy", homophobic "energy", problematic "energy", energy "energy".

I listen to the Tea Time podcast and Kate is, by far, the worst of the 3 on that pod. She is just obnoxious in almost all circumstances. Man alive, if they had Amelia, Juliet, and Liz on Pitch Perfect, this episode would have been 50 times better. Kate on Tea Time also says "energy" at least 5 times every episode. But Amelia and Liz don't. Whereas, Juliet and Jodi also love the word energy.

It's just a lot of repetitive energy.

Energy.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I haven't listened yet, but my first thought when I saw the Pitch Perfect lineup was, "No Simmons, hmm."
Yeah, I suspect they lean into this a bit during football season when they are only doing one a week. But there is no way Simmons is retiring from one of the most successful pods out there when all it entails is him shooting the shit about movies he likes with his buddies. Plus there are still some classics out there they have not done yet, and I don't think Bill could let them do those movies without him being involved.
 

Remagellan

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Yeah, I suspect they lean into this a bit during football season when they are only doing one a week. But there is no way Simmons is retiring from one of the most successful pods out there when all it entails is him shooting the shit about movies he likes with his buddies. Plus there are still some classics out there they have not done yet, and I don't think Bill could let them do those movies without him being involved.
I agree. But again, I'll applaud him for taking a few of these off to build the notion that he might be done with it--especially if he later comes back for a big one that they haven't done yet.

(I believe they've already done Halloween, but if not I could see him taking the rest of October off, and then hosting a Halloween pod in the last week and announcing, "Like Michael Myers, they thought I was dead, but I'm back.")
 

Spelunker

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I haven't listened yet, but my first thought when I saw the Pitch Perfect lineup was, "No Simmons, hmm."
Having no dudes on this one - especially no Simmons- is a good thing.

But yeah, dubbing in Dobbins would have been good
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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So my favorite movie podcast (and one I learned about on SoSH) is Blank Check with Griffin and David. They look at a director's entire body of work and each episode is a discussion of (usually) one film. Typically they have a guest host to break down the film. They are in the midst of Stanley Kubrick. The latest episode is on Dr. Strangelove and the guest host is Fennessey. The interesting part to me anyways is that the hosts revealed that Fennessey was their most requested guest host. If you like Sean's work, it's worth checking out.
 

allstonite

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And also Griffin and David are on the new Big Picture from today discussing Avatar and it’s cultural relevance prior to the sequel release later this year. I’m very excited to listen to both later this week. (Griffin was also on another SOSH favorite Doughboys discussing Muppet Treasure Island)
 

johnmd20

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And also Griffin and David are on the new Big Picture from today discussing Avatar and it’s cultural relevance prior to the sequel release later this year. I’m very excited to listen to both later this week. (Griffin was also on another SOSH favorite Doughboys discussing Muppet Treasure Island)
The Big Picture pod is awesome. The Avatar talk is truly exceptional, interesting, and funny. They cover a LOT of territory. More than you could have ever thought you wanted. Or needed. But after listening to it, I needed it all. And didn't realize I wanted it, too.

Man, when Sean works with other great hosts, he's truly a superstar.
 

shlincoln

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And also Griffin and David are on the new Big Picture from today discussing Avatar and it’s cultural relevance prior to the sequel release later this year. I’m very excited to listen to both later this week. (Griffin was also on another SOSH favorite Doughboys discussing Muppet Treasure Island)
at one point David straight up asks Sean if Simmons is truly done with Rewatchables and Sean gets very cagey and noncommittal. So make of that what you will.

I will say it was kind of weird to hear the #TwoFriends talk about a movie without being interrupted by either a ringing telephone or "David!"
 

Leather

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Guys he’s not quitting The Rewatchables. Come on. It’s a gag.
 

The Filthy One

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This a little off topic, but it occurred to me today that the way Simmons tells stories about his past often mimics the style that was popular in American short fiction from the 80s and 90s. "I used to have an illegal cable box. My buddy Steve convinced me to get it before he moved out. This was when I was living with my roommate Richard in the last apartment I would live in before I met my wife. Most nights, I'd come home from bartending and we'd watch illegal pay-per-view movies together." Maybe it's just that fiction from that time was trying hard to replicate how people tell stories.
 

Leather

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This a little off topic, but it occurred to me today that the way Simmons tells stories about his past often mimics the style that was popular in American short fiction from the 80s and 90s. "I used to have an illegal cable box. My buddy Steve convinced me to get it before he moved out. This was when I was living with my roommate Richard in the last apartment I would live in before I met my wife. Most nights, I'd come home from bartending and we'd watch illegal pay-per-view movies together." Maybe it's just that fiction from that time was trying hard to replicate how people tell stories.
I always go "huh?" whenever he references being a big Raymond Carver fan (and he's done it a few times) because his storytelling/writing style is pretty much the opposite of Carver's.
 

Leather

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I'm sure he'll be back at some point as he no doubt was busy with all the NBA pods he's done recently and doing this week, but this "Boogie Nights really was Bill's last Rewatchables" thing is growing.
They said right at the beginning that Simmons has bronchitis.

Kind of funny that they thought a $900,000 salary in 1992 would be worth $5,000,000 today. In reality it’s less than $2MM. Like, man, inflation isn’t THAT bad, guys.
 

Spelunker

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They said right at the beginning that Simmons has bronchitis.

Kind of funny that they thought a $900,000 salary in 1992 would be worth $5,000,000 today. In reality it’s less than $2MM. Like, man, inflation isn’t THAT bad, guys.
That was their tribute to Simmons. Although he might have said 10 mill.
 

Leather

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That was their tribute to Simmons. Although he might have said 10 mill.
Was it really? Is that a running gag?

I have to say, I kind of wish Simmons was there for re-casting couch, if only to hear his bad ideas. "What about Tom Cruise instead of Baldwin? What about Charlie Sheen? How about Clint instead of Jack Lemmon?!"

Also, a couple of comments regarding the episode: I think this was a case where the two hosts were a little too enamored with the movie and their own history of liking it was slightly detrimental. I like GGGR, and it's undoubtedly a very good movie with some excellent acting, so I'm not saying it's undeserved or anything, but they unconsciously did some things that were annoying. For one, they almost immediately stopped referring to characters by the actors' names and went to the characters' names and despite seeing the movie 2-3 times, I was really confused who the hell they were talking about. This isn't Rocky IV where you KNOW who Rocky and Adrian and Drago are, it's a bunch of middle aged white guys with white guy names (Roma aside). Second, there's no fucking way GGGR is Al Pacino's Apex Mountain. Come the fuck on. Finally, Fennessy has the absolute least-convincing "tough guy" line readings/imitations I've ever heard.
 
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luckiestman

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Was it really? Is that a running gag?

I have to say, I kind of wish Simmons was there for re-casting couch, if only to hear his bad ideas. "What about Tom Cruise instead of Baldwin? What about Charlie Sheen? How about Clint instead of Jack Lemmon?!"

Also, a couple of comments regarding the episode: I think this was a case where the two hosts were a little too enamored with the movie and their own history of liking it was slightly detrimental. I like GGGR, and it's undoubtedly a very good movie with some excellent acting, so I'm not saying it's undeserved or anything, but they unconsciously did some things that were annoying. For one, they almost immediately stopped referring to characters by the actors' names and went to the characters' names and despite seeing the movie 2-3 times, I was really confused who the hell they were talking about. This isn't Rocky IV where you KNOW who Rocky and Adrian and Drago are, it's a bunch of middle aged white guys with white guy names (Roma aside). Second, there's no fucking way GGGR is Al Pacino's Apex Mountain. Come the fuck on. Finally, Fennessy has the absolute least-convincing "tough guy" line readings/imitations I've ever heard.
Are you really going to make us do the Apex Mountain gag? 92 is also Scent of a Woman which may be the peak of his Hollywood juice
 

Leather

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Are you really going to make us do the Apex Mountain gag? 92 is also Scent of a Woman which may be the peak of his Hollywood juice
Then Scent of a Woman is his Apex! Not an ensemble part in a box office bomb (a fact which they kind of gloss over. No, it's not that it was underappreciated, it fucking tanked.)
 

Shelterdog

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Then Scent of a Woman is his Apex! Not an ensemble part in a box office bomb (a fact which they kind of gloss over. No, it's not that it was underappreciated, it fucking tanked.)
Based on the dumb rules of apex mountain (i.e. it's when the person had the greatest ability to make their desired projects happen in Hollywood, not when they were, like, good or at the height of their creative powers) it has to be Scent. After that he did two bits (never heard of it) but City Hall, Insider, Devil's Advocate, Carlito's Way, Heat, the Insider and Any Given Sunday--that's just seven back to back to back big budget dramas where he was the absolute (and, I believe, absolutely well paid) star. Fuck, he even made a documentary about playing Richard III in their, which I think would best be viewed, financially, as box office poison.

Why it's remotely interesting to examine when an actor or director had the most industry juice is another question. (Stanley Kubrick's apex mountain under the Simmons rule was roughly a minute before he died--he was able to cast Tom Cruise in a weird prno movie and had Spielberg taking over his futuristic pinocchio project--but isn't Strangelove v Shining v. Full Metal Jacket v the killing a more interesting conversation?
 

Remagellan

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This is yet another reason why the concept of Apex Mountain is so muddy. They can argue that this is Pacino's Apex Mountain, because they believe this is the better performance, it results in an Academy Award nomination, and it occurs in the same year Pacino won an Academy Award for what they consider an inferior performance. So the combo of Pacino having the juice from winning the Oscar and the excellence of this performance makes it his Apex Mountain.
 

Leather

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This is yet another reason why the concept of Apex Mountain is so muddy. They can argue that this is Pacino's Apex Mountain, because they believe this is the better performance, it results in an Academy Award nomination, and it occurs in the same year Pacino won an Academy Award for what they consider an inferior performance. So the combo of Pacino having the juice from winning the Oscar and the excellence of this performance makes it his Apex Mountain.
But using your logic, it still makes no sense. He was nominated for a best Supporting Actor award in Glengarry Glen Ross, which was released in October 1992 and bombed. He WON a Best Actor award for Scent of a Woman, which was released in late December, 1992 and was a big hit.

Glengarry Glen Ross, in and of itself, did nothing to juice his career. Hell, if anything, had SoaW not come out and saved it, his career might have been pretty dead as a box office draw; even an Academy Award Nom performance from Pacino couldn't save GGGR from tanking. That's where he was at in November, 1992. Hell, he was nominated the PREVIOUS YEAR for Dick Tracy and he still couldn't draw anybody to GGGR.

Chris wanted to call it his Apex Mountain because he knows Scent of a Woman is largely a kinda-shitty performance by Pacino and he just really likes this movie, but it doesn't make any sense by their own cockamamie logic.
 

Remagellan

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But using your logic, it still makes no sense. He was nominated for a best Supporting Actor award in Glengarry Glen Ross, which was released in October 1992 and bombed. He WON a Best Actor award for Scent of a Woman, which was released in late December, 1992 and was a big hit.

Glengarry Glen Ross, in and of itself, did nothing to juice his career. Hell, if anything, had SoaW not come out and saved it, his career might have been pretty dead as a box office draw; even an Academy Award Nom performance from Pacino couldn't save GGGR from tanking. That's where he was at in November, 1992. Hell, he was nominated the PREVIOUS YEAR for Dick Tracy and he still couldn't draw anybody to GGGR. Nobody gave a shit about Al Pacino except film buffs in 1992.

Chris wanted to call it his Apex Mountain because he knows Scent of a Woman is largely a kinda-shitty performance by Pacino and he just really likes this movie, but it doesn't make any sense by their own cockamamie logic.
It's not my logic; I'm just explaining theirs. And in truth, there's no real logic to the whole concept. This becomes really clear whenever they have a guest on the pod, and struggle to get them to understand this vague term.
 

Leather

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It's not my logic; I'm just explaining theirs. And in truth, there's no real logic to the whole concept. This becomes really clear whenever they have a guest on the pod, and struggle to get them to understand this vague term.
No I know. It's a stupid category. But this particular example was the "I'm not voting for Pedro because pitchers don't get to be MVP even though I've never said that before" of the Apex Mountain discussion. Like, the logic is fuzzy but they've at least tried to adhere to it before. This time Chris just said "fuck it I'm piggybacking this with the other stuff because I used to quote this movie when I was 19."
 

Shelterdog

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No I know. It's a stupid category. But this particular example was the "I'm not voting for Pedro because pitchers don't get to be MVP even though I've never said that before" of the Apex Mountain discussion. Like, the logic is fuzzy but they've at least tried to adhere to it before. This time Chris just said "fuck it I'm piggybacking this with the other stuff because I used to quote this movie when I was 19."
Right. It's not a particularly complex category, it's just one that (1) guests don't quite follow because it's a kind of weird and dumb question--when could person X get a project greenlit is just not that interesting and (2) the host don't follow all the time because BS is a totally undisciplined thinker--which is fine for a light comic podcaster!--and Chris and Sean are just trying to have a good discussion about film within the parameters of the show
 
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8slim

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In the other Ringer thread someone recommended a recent Big Picture episode about Avatar that featured Sean Fennessy. I listened yesterday and it was enjoyable, but it wasn't nearly as fun as The Rewatchables. There was a lot of people talking over each other and bringing an almost frantic energy at times. For all of Bill's warts, he does have a real talent for moderating fun discussions and getting a lot out of his co-hosts.
 

Leather

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In the other Ringer thread someone recommended a recent Big Picture episode about Avatar that featured Sean Fennessy. I listened yesterday and it was enjoyable, but it wasn't nearly as fun as The Rewatchables. There was a lot of people talking over each other and bringing an almost frantic energy at times. For all of Bill's warts, he does have a real talent for moderating fun discussions and getting a lot out of his co-hosts.
Like I've said before, he is often useful as a foil to people who like a movie *too* much. He brings things back down to a relatable level, which at the end of the day is sort of what The Rewatchables is supposed to celebrate: finding common ground on why we like certain movies. So when Fennessy and CR start the discussion by saying they have watched the movie so much that they don't regard the Baldwin monolog as the most rewatchable seen anymore, and would rather rewatch more subtle interactions between the characters, that's where Simmons would voice the opinion of most of the audience and say "What the fuck are you TALKING about? Of COURSE that's the most rewatchable scene! No question!"

Fennessy and CR know a lot of stuff (particularly Fennessy), but I don't find Fennessy to be a particularly charismatic host, and I think CR can get a little high on his own shit sometimes (at one point he randomly apologizes to nobody at all for not doing more Pacino imitations and I'm guessing not many people missed them at all until he mentioned it?). Simmons is the lukewarm water.
 
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chrisfont9

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Man, that is a dark, dark scene.
The whole movie is incredibly dark and sad. It was a weird listen in general, where all three of them just seemed to think it was a fun and funny movie until the New Year's party. Chris eventually suggested that maaaaybee Jack and Amber were actually predators? I was shocked that they didn't see this movie for what it really is, given that Chris and Sean do serious movie criticism. My theory is that they didn't want to ruin the experience for Bill.

It's a fascinating movie, I like it for a bunch of reasons, but it's not all that funny or even rewatchable.