June;: Red Sox discussion, observations and trend tracking...AKA It's not all about the Benjamins

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
I do think It will be interesting to see how this team treats the trade deadline. They’re in prime position to compete for a WC spot and should get Casas back in the coming weeks but there will be a lot of competition for those final 2 WC spots now that Houston and Texas appear to be figuring things out. Problem is that I’m not sure what our non top 3 guys bring back in trade so I don’t really expect any major moves.
I can see them picking up a starter. The offensive and defensive improvements are very real, but as much as i love the rotation, I can see them getting burnt out before the season. Right now there is zero margin for error on that side. But it doesn't merit a splashy acquisition, just very solid depth.
 

cantor44

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 23, 2020
1,865
Chicago, IL
I can see them picking up a starter. The offensive and defensive improvements are very real, but as much as i love the rotation, I can see them getting burnt out before the season. Right now there is zero margin for error on that side. But it doesn't merit a splashy acquisition, just very solid depth.
I agree - this seems to be the obvious upgrade, especially if Casas is actually able to come back. Stunned to think, I mean, if they are where they are now in a month, you kinda gotta be a buyer, eh? Still not convinced this team could make a deep post season run, so in a way I have mixed feelings about that given that there are a few trade-able players on expiring contracts.

But, as we are all saying, this team sure is fun to watch.
 

cantor44

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 23, 2020
1,865
Chicago, IL
To me the biggest surprise is Wong. I mean he just keeps sustaining his great performance. At this point - he deserves to make the all-star team, no?

Or - who does deserve to make it? I dare say you could make an argument for Duran (with total WAR), Wong, Devers, Houck, and possibly Jansen. Refsynder is playing at that level, but with injury and platoon probably not big enough body of work.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
20,593
Man I know that stealing bases is considered inefficient and that the Three True Outcome is STILL considered the safest way to score but god that really led to boring baseball. Yeah, fans like to see their team win and winning is the most exciting thing but I really prefer to watch games the way the Sox have been playing lately (minus the STILL sloppy defense).
The new rules put in place have made stolen bases more valuable than previously. Stolen bases are up significantly from 2 seasons ago. Even good hitting teams such as the Brewers and Phillies have been utilizing thefts to their advantage, the former more often than Boston, the latter about the same.
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
6,547
Pittsburgh, PA
The new rules put in place have made stolen bases more valuable than previously. Stolen bases are up significantly from 2 seasons ago. Even good hitting teams such as the Brewers and Phillies have been utilizing thefts to their advantage, the former more often than Boston, the latter about the same.
Right - League-wide SB totals are up about 40% since the new rules were implemented.

Edit: up 59% to 0.73 per game this year vs. a the lowest since 1971 of 0.46 per game in 2021.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/bat.shtml
 

trs

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2010
693
Madrid
Of all the unexpected, near bewildering, things about this season to date, this has to be at the top of my list. I used to follow Sox teams where our season SB leader would be under 15. This amount of running is kookoo town.
You mean footspeed master Marty Barrett?

It's impressive to see the aggressive running and for the most part smarter aggressive running this year.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,999
Unreal America
These past couple of weeks have been incredibly entertaining. I really hope the catastrophic injury wave we experienced is in the rear view. Because it'd be great to see this club as currently constituted have the next 2+ months to play together and see what more hay we can make.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
8,485
This is why I don't want David Hamilton going anywhere. I like Romy for the same reason. The flexibility they offer and their speed offers a nice floor as a utility player even if Grissom ends up being the better hitter and Story somehow rebounds from missing basically two straight seasons. Duran, Hamilton, and Romy gives them three guys, according to Statcast, with 90th percentile speed.

A huge part of the Red Sox scoring as much as they have the last couple months has been on Duran and Hamilton just making things happen.

EDIT: Forgot Ceddanne, who is also 90th percentile!
 
Last edited:

Benj4ever

New Member
Nov 21, 2022
510
I’d rather not rehash the “Front Office is too cheap to be trying to win” debates, here. But I was too often accused of carrying water for the owners. And I was not amused.

I will reiterate. Young, fast, athletic teams with low expectations can be a lot of fun to follow.
And we are seeing that materialize before our eyes this June.

9-3 since the disappointing split with the pale hose.Our starters regularly keep us in every gam. Our bullpen is legit, including our closer.
and our lineup is getting healthier and better as the year rolls on. I am digging this June
Yes, our bullpen is legit, as is our entire team. The question, as I understand it, is how the Sox can be even better (including the bullpen). And, yeah, Kenley has been better this year and outstanding as of late, and that's very encouraging.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
33,377
The new rules put in place have made stolen bases more valuable than previously. Stolen bases are up significantly from 2 seasons ago. Even good hitting teams such as the Brewers and Phillies have been utilizing thefts to their advantage, the former more often than Boston, the latter about the same.
Another part of the equation is that overall offense is so down this year over last that the single run a stolen base can help create is more worth the risk.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
61,563
San Andreas Fault
Are these the new rules enhancing stolen bases this year? (Courtesy of Microsoft copilot).

In 2024, Major League Baseball (MLB) has provided new guidance to umpires regarding base-blocking rules. The focus is on preventing egregious blocking of bases by defenders. Specifically, the guidance emphasizes that blocking the base is only acceptable if it’s necessary to catch the ball or apply a tag. Otherwise, it’s considered obstruction. This clarification affects common plays like stolen-base attempts at second base1. Additionally, the increase in stolen bases can be attributed to the rule limiting pitchers to two disengagements per batter, which resets if a runner advances during a plate appearance2. Fantasy baseball enthusiasts have seen more players reaching double-digit stolen base totals due to these changes3.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
This is why I don't want David Hamilton going anywhere. I like Romy for the same reason. The flexibility they offer and their speed offers a nice floor as a utility player even if Grissom ends up being the better hitter and Story somehow rebounds from missing basically two straight seasons. Duran, Hamilton, and Romy gives them three guys, according to Statcast, with 90th percentile speed.

A huge part of the Red Sox scoring as much as they have the last couple months has been on Duran and Hamilton just making things happen.

EDIT: Forgot Ceddanne, who is also 90th percentile!
Yes! It's about putting pressure on the defense. India doesn't throw that ball away on the relay to first if Rafaela isn't running. Pitchers aren't missing spots trying to be too careful about giving Hamilton a walk if it weren't effectively a triple. Nobody is comfortable out there facing this lineup.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
One problem is that too many people quote statistics they don't understand. For example, many think bunting is bad because it results in less average runs scored. What they don't understand is that bunting can increase the probability of scoring a single run, which is incredibly important in a pitcher's duel and as the game goes to late innings. (i.e., it can increase the probability that you win the game). That's the stat we should be looking at.
Bunting definitely has it's place in the game. The biggest issue I see with bunting is that it seems more and more players lack the skill to properly lay down a bunt when called upon to do so which must surely skew the statistics in an unfavorable way.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
33,377
Bunting definitely has it's place in the game. The biggest issue I see with bunting is that it seems more and more players lack the skill to properly lay down a bunt when called upon to do so which must surely skew the statistics in an unfavorable way.
Right. Most observers seem not to treat bunting as a skill that some players possess more of than others.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
7,618
Bunting definitely has it's place in the game. The biggest issue I see with bunting is that it seems more and more players lack the skill to properly lay down a bunt when called upon to do so which must surely skew the statistics in an unfavorable way.
I also think so many pitches now have late movement that sitting out there with your bat already half "swinging" really is a terrible strategy. When pitchers threw almost nothing but fastballs I suspect it was easier to pull up or down for a bunt, with all the sliders, cutters, slurves, gropers, putters, and poopers being thrown with late lateral movement the liklihood that you'll just drop a terrible bunt (or weak popup the pitcher or catcher) is higher
 

RS2004foreever

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2022
1,632
Jarren Duran is the 4th best player in baseball since May 12th. And holy crap is Aaron Judge hot.
Over the same stretch is 39th and Devers is 40th. Wong is 72nd.
And Mookie - because all Red Sox threads eventually go there - is tied with Wong.
84623
 

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
10,054
This is why I don't want David Hamilton going anywhere. I like Romy for the same reason. The flexibility they offer and their speed offers a nice floor as a utility player even if Grissom ends up being the better hitter and Story somehow rebounds from missing basically two straight seasons. Duran, Hamilton, and Romy gives them three guys, according to Statcast, with 90th percentile speed.

A huge part of the Red Sox scoring as much as they have the last couple months has been on Duran and Hamilton just making things happen.

EDIT: Forgot Ceddanne, who is also 90th percentile!
Story's no slouch on the bases either. He doesn't have the wheels the kids do but he's probably the smartest runner on the team. He stole 10 in 43 games last year.
 

Cassvt2023

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 17, 2023
1,257
That was probably the best win of the year. Raffy bomb almost falling down, Houck preserving the bullpen, coming back from 4 down, Duran w/ the walkoff w/ the C’s in the house…. This team is becoming so fun to watch And root for.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
That was probably the best win of the year. Raffy bomb almost falling down, Houck preserving the bullpen, coming back from 4 down, Duran w/ the walkoff w/ the C’s in the house…. This team is becoming so fun to watch And root for.
The vibes are really something. I don't know if the Blue Jays plain and simply bungled it or if the Sox are just an unstoppable force.
 

Otis Foster

rex ryan's podiatrist
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
1,804
As has been noted elsewhere, this feels eerily like 1967. I’d remain cautious, but just a little bit optimistic. They are getting significant contributions from players who would command a “who’s he “ in any other year. They could really use another innings eater; Bello hasn’t progressed the way I had hoped and Pivetta hasn’t heated up yet.
 

SoxFanInPdx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,361
Portland, OR
This has been a great two weeks. The most fun I’ve had watching this team in a while and it’s great to feel that. It’ll be interesting how they’ll wrap up right at the ASG.

With comeback wins like last night, I want to believe they may have something here. However, I just don’t think they should be buyers. Still a lot of holes on this team and who knows what Casas looks like when he comes back.
 

jwbasham84

New Member
Jul 26, 2022
195
South Bend, IN
I think they can be buyers. They just need to not mortgage the farm to do it. We have a lot of MI pieces that could be used. I don't think we can trade for a top of the line starter but possibly find a diamond in the rough that B&B can take to the lab and improve like they did with our staff. If they can do what they did with Criswell, there has to be other similar targets we can feasibly acquire.
 

Joe D Reid

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
4,393
This has been a great two weeks. The most fun I’ve had watching this team in a while and it’s great to feel that. It’ll be interesting how they’ll wrap up right at the ASG.

With comeback wins like last night, I want to believe they may have something here. However, I just don’t think they should be buyers. Still a lot of holes on this team and who knows what Casas looks like when he comes back.
Yeah, "fun" is the operative word with this team. And after the C's winning #18, I find that I am more or less fine watching a fun if ultimately undermanned Sox team for the rest of the summer. I will say that TB's mediocrity and Toronto's pretty shocking terribleness raises Boston's ceiling this year.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
15,697
I don’t really buy the argument that they have a lot of holes. 1b, until Casas is back, and the end of the rotation. What else?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
23,013
Maine
I don’t really buy the argument that they have a lot of holes. 1b, until Casas is back, and the end of the rotation. What else?
Maybe there don't appear to be any clear holes but that doesn't mean that certain spots can't still be improved/upgraded. Adding another bullpen arm is never a bad idea, for example.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
8,485
They're still getting mediocre production out of second base. Doesn't mean that will be a hole going forward -- Grissom or Valdez or Hamilton or Romy could all step into grab that role -- but the production hasn't been good.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
They're still getting mediocre production out of second base. Doesn't mean that will be a hole going forward -- Grissom or Valdez or Hamilton or Romy could all step into grab that role -- but the production hasn't been good.
But Valdez has OPS'd 1.044 in June. Seems to be unplayable against lefties, but right now, at least, the production as the strong side of a platoon is very good.
 

BaseballJones

slappy happy
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
27,681
Maybe there don't appear to be any clear holes but that doesn't mean that certain spots can't still be improved/upgraded. Adding another bullpen arm is never a bad idea, for example.
This. I mean, they don't have a lot of holes, but they also don't have a lot of top-of-the-line players that you can really count on, either. Some guys may be playing way over their heads right now. I suspect that's the case with several of them. But the way they're going, and especially at their current salaries and ownership's unwillingness to really go above and beyond in that area right now, I don't know how they improve.

C: Wong is at 142 ops+ with a cannon for an arm. He also makes league minimum. How could they improve on that? McGuire is at 73 ops+ and could be improved, but why bother, with Teel on the fast track for the majors soon. No sense giving up a real asset for a better lefty hitting backup catcher.

1b: Casas returning from injury is the single biggest improvement this team will likely experience in the latter stages of the season. They're not getting another guy, not when Casas should be returning.

2b: Valdez is at 83 ops+, and yeah, he could be improved, but it would be a stopgap, right? They're pretty committed to Grissom moving forward, but even if not him, they've got guys in the minors heading this way as well.

3b: Devers is going nowhere and is one of the best 3b in MLB (not the best defensively of course, but the total package). Tough to improve there, and the cost of getting a 3b who is, overall, better than Devers, isn't worth it.

SS: Hamilton has been a revelation this year, and they have Story returning from injury next year. Oh, and Mayer is on the way.

OF: Duran is a stud. Tough to improve on him right now. Rafaela doesn't hit a ton but he's been improving. Since May 1 he's hitting .275/.305/.419/.724, which isn't bad at all. Over his last 27 games he's at .327/.359/.459/.818, but some of that is smoke and mirrors. And of course he's spectacular in the field. They could get a better player, but at what price? And in RF Abreu is giving them a 122 ops+, while O'Neill has 15 homers and a 146 ops+, and Refsnyder is backing them all up with a 148 ops+. The big area of improvement would be Yoshida. But how to move him, and for what?

SP: A lot of guys who have had good years. Houck is a stud - can't really do much better than him. Pivetta is a solid starter (4.06) who they could move, but how do they move him and get a *better* SP back? Bello is their worst starter and he's under long-term contract and is going nowhere. He'll just keep getting the ball and working stuff out. Crawford is steady at 3.59 era, and yeah, you could do better than him, but he's 44th in MLB among qualified starters in era, which means he's a legit #2 starter in all of baseball. I think you could move him for a pitching prospect, but while that may be best for the long term, it won't improve the rotation NOW.

RP: The bullpen could always be improved. Isaiah Campbell needs to get his s**t together. Otherwise, guys are doing well, especially in their roles. Jansen, Slaten, Weissert, Bernardino, Booser, ZKelly, Martin - they've all been good.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
15,697
Maybe there don't appear to be any clear holes but that doesn't mean that certain spots can't still be improved/upgraded. Adding another bullpen arm is never a bad idea, for example.
Agree. It was more a response to the idea that they shouldn’t be buyers because they have a lot of holes.

They have areas they can improve, like all teams, and should be looking to make upgrades where it makes sense, in both the short and long term.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,873
Fun win last night. Lots of "stones" showed in that one, which is of course not quantifiable, but certainly exists in sports.

@SoxFanInPdx, as to the buy / sell argument, I'll say that it seems to turn on a relative dime with this team, I just hope they pick a lane this year. As we sit here today, it's impossible not to hope that it's "buy" but if they chose not to buy for some reason, then sell and sell hard (Jansen, Martin, O'Neill, Pivetta).

Looking at the landscape of the AL, they're not on par with any of the top 4 teams and aren't catching them. Forced to choose, I'm still taking Houston to make a WC spot. Too much talent and too much experience to pick against them. That said, this team can certainly add the pieces to beat out Kansas City and Minnesota, almost assuredly without moving anything from the prospect stash that we'd miss (case in point, without looking it up I have absolutely not idea what was traded for Schwarber and Robles in 2021). Also - I'm not asking there. I could easily look it up if it mattered - my point is that the prospects dealt didn't matter and aren't worth looking up. So either go out and address some of the holes / buttress strengths or sell - and to be clear as of today I'm hoping for the former and you're not going to miss the 2024 version of those 2021 pieces that I can't even recall.

Just don't do nothing / stay in the middle lane this time. (I don't think Breslow will repeat this mistake).
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,873
Why are people still talking about the possibility of selling while they're in a WC spot?
For me, it was mostly to address a post earlier in the thread, and to maintain that the one thing I'd really hate is the "do nothing" approach.

I'd like to see them go out and either address areas of weakness (probably 2b) or support areas of strength (teams always can use more pitching).

I'm a firm believer that if you do nothing at the trade deadline, you've wasted an opportunity. Either to get better and possibly go on a deeper playoff run or to sell and build pieces for the next team. To be clear, as things stand today, I want them to buy, but mostly I just want them to pick a lane.
 

shaggydog2000

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2007
12,884
This. I mean, they don't have a lot of holes, but they also don't have a lot of top-of-the-line players that you can really count on, either. Some guys may be playing way over their heads right now. I suspect that's the case with several of them. But the way they're going, and especially at their current salaries and ownership's unwillingness to really go above and beyond in that area right now, I don't know how they improve.

C: Wong is at 142 ops+ with a cannon for an arm. He also makes league minimum. How could they improve on that? McGuire is at 73 ops+ and could be improved, but why bother, with Teel on the fast track for the majors soon. No sense giving up a real asset for a better lefty hitting backup catcher.

1b: Casas returning from injury is the single biggest improvement this team will likely experience in the latter stages of the season. They're not getting another guy, not when Casas should be returning.

2b: Valdez is at 83 ops+, and yeah, he could be improved, but it would be a stopgap, right? They're pretty committed to Grissom moving forward, but even if not him, they've got guys in the minors heading this way as well.

3b: Devers is going nowhere and is one of the best 3b in MLB (not the best defensively of course, but the total package). Tough to improve there, and the cost of getting a 3b who is, overall, better than Devers, isn't worth it.

SS: Hamilton has been a revelation this year, and they have Story returning from injury next year. Oh, and Mayer is on the way.

OF: Duran is a stud. Tough to improve on him right now. Rafaela doesn't hit a ton but he's been improving. Since May 1 he's hitting .275/.305/.419/.724, which isn't bad at all. Over his last 27 games he's at .327/.359/.459/.818, but some of that is smoke and mirrors. And of course he's spectacular in the field. They could get a better player, but at what price? And in RF Abreu is giving them a 122 ops+, while O'Neill has 15 homers and a 146 ops+, and Refsnyder is backing them all up with a 148 ops+. The big area of improvement would be Yoshida. But how to move him, and for what?

SP: A lot of guys who have had good years. Houck is a stud - can't really do much better than him. Pivetta is a solid starter (4.06) who they could move, but how do they move him and get a *better* SP back? Bello is their worst starter and he's under long-term contract and is going nowhere. He'll just keep getting the ball and working stuff out. Crawford is steady at 3.59 era, and yeah, you could do better than him, but he's 44th in MLB among qualified starters in era, which means he's a legit #2 starter in all of baseball. I think you could move him for a pitching prospect, but while that may be best for the long term, it won't improve the rotation NOW.

RP: The bullpen could always be improved. Isaiah Campbell needs to get his s**t together. Otherwise, guys are doing well, especially in their roles. Jansen, Slaten, Weissert, Bernardino, Booser, ZKelly, Martin - they've all been good.
A big point is that for the positions that could be improved (SS, 2B, CF), they need to figure out what they have already, and they won't be able to do that if they bring in a vet who is a marginal improvement over the rest of the season. Rafaela is signed for a while, they need to know if he keeps playing if he will start to hit consistently. At 2B they need to figure out if Grissom (when he gets back) is a viable starter or if they need to spend some capital on another player there, or maybe if there is a viable starter out of the rest of the MI guys they have. SS is probably the only spot where they know none of these guys are going to be long term starters as a SS, even if they turn out to be viable utility players or future 2B. Hamilton could continue to hit, but if he does I still don't think they look at him as a future starter at that position. As you note, long term they have options for this, so they're not going to spend capital bringing in a guy with a few years left. I don't know how many rest of the year rental SS are going to be available and an improvement on what they have right now.

You can always use another bullpen arm though, that is true.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,961
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Agree. It was more a response to the idea that they shouldn’t be buyers because they have a lot of holes.

They have areas they can improve, like all teams, and should be looking to make upgrades where it makes sense, in both the short and long term.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. Most of the trade-deadline "buying" upgrades are short-term players. But you make those trades to get an in-year boost. If the boost is happening with someone you have on staff anyway. . .why make the short term trade?

None of that rules out a good trade, or trading for a cost-controlled player. Or even trading for a key short-term player that might also make the team a little unwieldy (Schwarber in 21).

But I'd certainly wait to see what Hamilton/Valdez/Grissom are doing at the trade deadline rather than trying to acquire a 2B because they've had problems up to Mid-June.
 

curly2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 8, 2003
5,209
Not specifically Sox-related, but last night's game had 13 runs, 20 hits and eight pitchers used, and took 2 hours and 37 minutes. A couple of years ago, it's probably 3:10 at least. The pitch clock makes for such a better game.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
23,013
Maine
For me, it was mostly to address a post earlier in the thread, and to maintain that the one thing I'd really hate is the "do nothing" approach.

I'd like to see them go out and either address areas of weakness (probably 2b) or support areas of strength (teams always can use more pitching).

I'm a firm believer that if you do nothing at the trade deadline, you've wasted an opportunity. Either to get better and possibly go on a deeper playoff run or to sell and build pieces for the next team. To be clear, as things stand today, I want them to buy, but mostly I just want them to pick a lane.
Given the position the team is in right now, and the outlook for the future, I don't see why they need to "pick a lane." At least if the only two lanes are "buy" or "sell". I think there's room to both get better and possibly go on a deep playoff run and to build pieces (which could be as simple as clearing way for existing future pieces) for the next team.

To be honest, I think the approach we saw at the 2022 deadline isn't a terrible one for this team too. Then, they traded a vet on an expiring deal for prospects that are now contributing, and swung a cheap deal for a replacement that outperformed that departed player in the second half. They also traded a highly ranked prospect whose value was declining to address a position of need (1B). And got a needed outfielder for next to nothing (a PTBNL) as well. Ultimately that team was too flawed to make the post-season but it's not as though they had obvious pieces that could have been moved for significant prospect returns in an abandon-all-hope firesale either.

I can see some possible parallels with this year, but this year's team shows way more promise than the 2022 edition (particularly the lack of gaping black holes in the lineup). There are a couple players on the big league roster right now that could be moved for upgrades elsewhere and the team might not even miss a beat without them. There are also prospects/40-man clutter that could be moved without significantly mortgaging the future. They can most certainly be in both "lanes" and still be definitive about winning this season.
 

SirPsychoSquints

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
6,547
Pittsburgh, PA
Not specifically Sox-related, but last night's game had 13 runs, 20 hits and eight pitchers used, and took 2 hours and 37 minutes. A couple of years ago, it's probably 3:10 at least. The pitch clock makes for such a better game.
In 2019, 10 teams won 7-6 while getting exactly 11 hits. They averaged 3:42. Excluding the 3 extra inning games, it was 3:24. Excluding the games with 10+ pitchers (the remaining 5 each had 7-9 pitchers), it was 3:13.
https://stathead.com/tiny/xmovC

The very shortest one of the 10 was 2:58, a 7-6 Devil Rays walkoff against the Mariners, where TB had 11 hits to SEA's 8 and 9 pitchers were used.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TBA/TBA201908210.shtml?__hstc=205977932.e52e3290bc4fbd0358eadcf559645a19.1685451793353.1719320331861.1719329103018.211&__hssc=205977932.6.1719329103018&__hsfp=3523199817

My overall point is - you're right.

Edit: If I use the same search as above, but only include 9 innning games, and expand to 2015-2019, I get 26 games averaging 3:21, ranging from 2:55 to 4:12. https://stathead.com/tiny/2ZF77

If I do the same, but expand to 2000-2022 and include ONLY walkoffs, it's 35 games averaging 3:16, ranging from 2:50 to 3:44. https://stathead.com/tiny/Ee8ZV
 
Last edited:

Sin Duda

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
1,207
(B)Austin Texas
Not specifically Sox-related, but last night's game had 13 runs, 20 hits and eight pitchers used, and took 2 hours and 37 minutes. A couple of years ago, it's probably 3:10 at least. The pitch clock makes for such a better game.
I watched the 9th inning of the College World Series championship game and it was excruciating.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
13,351
Yeah, "fun" is the operative word with this team. And after the C's winning #18, I find that I am more or less fine watching a fun if ultimately undermanned Sox team for the rest of the summer. I will say that TB's mediocrity and Toronto's pretty shocking terribleness raises Boston's ceiling this year.
Doesn’t hurt that the yanks are 3-7, orioles 4-6 while the Sox have gone 8-2.. winning streaks are really nice.. when you pick up multiple games as well it adds to the fun.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
7,618
I don't want to get too greedy... .but the Yankees are collapsing. Injuries and not really much of a lineup after the first 3 now. Starting pitching might be coming back to earth and their bullpen isn't what it used to be. 8 games back isn't insurmountable but I'm shocked that it's even something to consider with how invincible they looked only 2 weeks ago especially with Cole on the way back. Highly unlikely though, sure. The O's and Yankees are likely one of the division winners
 

ookami7m

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
6,057
Mobile, AL
I don't want to get too greedy... .but the Yankees are collapsing. Injuries and not really much of a lineup after the first 3 now. Starting pitching might be coming back to earth and their bullpen isn't what it used to be. 8 games back isn't insurmountable but I'm shocked that it's even something to consider with how invincible they looked only 2 weeks ago especially with Cole on the way back. Highly unlikely though, sure. The O's and Yankees are likely one of the division winners
Fangraphs gives the Sox a 1.2% chance to win the division (Yankees 64.9%, Orioles, 33.6%). So that's not a dream even I can get on board with. The Sox have climbed to a 40% chance to make the playoffs at all which I think we all would have taken 80 games ago.
 

LoLsapien

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 5, 2022
461
On an off-night the Sox find themselves 6 back in the loss column from the MFY. If you will it, dude, it is no dream. Lots of games to be played.