Julian Edelman released & retires

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I can tell you in the last 3-4 years I haven’t even scouted a white corner. I didn’t look at Gunner.
Yeah, not sure if Jason Sehorn was ever as good as his reputation. Still remember his interception when he was lying on his back. Overrated corner, but his feast or famine style was fun.

Edit: a Jim Fassel sighting, too!

View: https://youtu.be/Nde0JNDvRBM
 
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ZMart100

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Sehorn was a very good corner early in his career. He lost a step towards the end, as most athletes do, but he was a real #1 NFL corner.
 

RIrooter09

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Didn't Fassel try him out as a kick returner and he immediately suffered a catastrophic injury?

Edit: Yes he did. From Wiki
After back-to-back successful seasons in 1996–97, Sehorn suffered a debilitating knee injury, tearing his anterior cruciate (ACL) and medial collateral ligaments (MCL) while returning the opening kickoff in a 1998 preseason game against the New York Jets.[5] Though Sehorn returned the next season, his speed was diminished.
 

geoduck no quahog

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Technically, Showtime is also a subscription channel and is more expensive than P+.
Yes, but the Showtime subscription is a sunk cost (for those of us who subscribe). Now it's another $5 to watch Inside the NFL, which is hardly worth it.

Are there other sports things on Paramount that make that $5 worthwhile?
 

Phil Plantier

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Yes, but the Showtime subscription is a sunk cost (for those of us who subscribe). Now it's another $5 to watch Inside the NFL, which is hardly worth it.

Are there other sports things on Paramount that make that $5 worthwhile?
Champions League is the big one. Some World Cup qualifiers. A documentary mini-series called "Texas 6" about 6-man football that's mostly enjoyable.
 

amRadio

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Fuck giving out #11. I don't expect it to be retired but give it some time, jeez. I apologize for the reactionary nature of my non-sense here.
 

mauf

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Fuck giving out #11. I don't expect it to be retired but give it some time, jeez. I apologize for the reactionary nature of my non-sense here.
If the Pats were going to retire #11 it would be for Drew Bledsoe, not Julian Edelman.

With 53-man rosters (and many more in preseason), plus position-based restrictions on uniform numbers, number retirements going forward are going to be limited to pantheon-level guys like Brady. Even for short-term moratoria on the use of a number, teams will need to pick their spots carefully. Because Edelman isn’t even the most illustrious #11 in franchise history, I think that’s a number that you just give out.
 

dcdrew10

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With the new rules allowing non-K/QB to take numbers 1-20, the only numbers available for Patterson were 11 ... and 12.
Give him #12. I kid...kind of. Yes, he clearly was not as good as Brady on the field, but he seems more human, more relatable. If I was given a choice of who to hang out with or who to have on my flag football team, Jules every day of the week. He might not be the GOAT, but he is in spirit.

I saw this thread get bumped and my heart dropped a little, because I thought it was going to be Jules coming out of retirement and signing with the Bucs.
 
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Feb 19, 2015
4,301
If the Pats were going to retire #11 it would be for Drew Bledsoe, not Julian Edelman.

With 53-man rosters (and many more in preseason), plus position-based restrictions on uniform numbers, number retirements going forward are going to be limited to pantheon-level guys like Brady. Even for short-term moratoria on the use of a number, teams will need to pick their spots carefully. Because Edelman isn’t even the most illustrious #11 in franchise history, I think that’s a number that you just give out.
Am I crazy for thinking Edelman was the better and more illustrious #11?
 

mauf

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Am I crazy for thinking Edelman was the better and more illustrious #11?
Bledsoe is 17th all-time in career passing yards and made four Pro Bowls. Edelman is 160th all-time in career receiving yards and made zero Pro Bowls. Those numbers aren’t quite fair to Edelman, who was a key player on three championship teams, but Bledsoe was on an entirely different level. He was also one of the most significant players in the franchise’s first 40 years of existence.
 

BunnzMcGinty

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Just curious, how old are you?
Haha thanks for defending us old timers. For quite a few years when I thought 11 I thought about Drew. But in the past few years Edelman’s absolute clutch-ness (if that’s not a word it should be) has firmly made him THE number 11 in my mind, but I’ll never forget Bledsoe, our first real “star” quarterback.

I’m 44 btw
 

PedroKsBambino

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Can you imagine the media shitstorm if they re-issued 12 while BB is still here? I almost want to see it just for the ridiculousness of it.

FWIW, I would retire 11 for Edelman more than Bledsoe too (though I wouldn't retire it).
 
Feb 19, 2015
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Just curious, how old are you?
Not him but I'm in my early fifties. I definitely saw Drew's entire career and appreciated his time with the Pats, and I'm not dismissing your point of view as I think you have a valid argument, but for me Jules is the more important and cherished #11.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Bledsoe is 17th all-time in career passing yards and made four Pro Bowls. Edelman is 160th all-time in career receiving yards and made zero Pro Bowls. Those numbers aren’t quite fair to Edelman, who was a key player on three championship teams, but Bledsoe was on an entirely different level. He was also one of the most significant players in the franchise’s first 40 years of existence.
I don't disagree with the point. I guess I would just add that second most catches in the playoffs all time is a pretty cool stat that maybe is partly a team stat but also a rather amazing stat for a guy whose career was not quite of that level.

But yeah, Bledsoe was a true franchise player.
 

amRadio

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Just curious, how old are you?
A lady never reveals...

I'm a fat guy though, so no problem. I'm 33. I apologize for the know-it-all nature of my post, genuinely. I have an anti-Bledsoe bias. I just cannot imagine 11 being associated with another player given JE's accomplishments. That's just me.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think either is retireable, but I think part of it is... Bledsoe was very good in an era for the team that was generally forgettable.
 

BunnzMcGinty

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I don't think either is retireable, but I think part of it is... Bledsoe was very good in an era for the team that was generally forgettable.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but if you’re over 40, Bledsoe arrived at a major turning point for the team. He was drafted by the newly hired Bill Parcells. I’m pretty sure his rookie season was the year they debuted the Flying Elvis uniforms. Kraft bought the team a year later. While our first Lombardi was still a few years off, it really felt for the fans like this was finally a serious franchise. And he was really good. So for those of us who grew up watching them trot out guys like Tom Hodson and Scott Secules and Hugh Millen and make us yearn for the days of Grogan and Eason, Drew will always be remembered.
 

amRadio

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I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but if you’re over 40, Bledsoe arrived at a major turning point for the team. He was drafted by the newly hired Bill Parcells. I’m pretty sure his rookie season was the year they debuted the Flying Elvis uniforms. Kraft bought the team a year later. While our first Lombardi was still a few years off, it really felt for the fans like this was finally a serious franchise. And he was really good. So for those of us who grew up watching them trot out guys like Tom Hodson and Scott Secules and Hugh Millen and make us yearn for the days of Grogan and Eason, Drew will always be remembered.
I had a coach in Chelmsford who told me "when you're right you're right" amongst other less post-able euphemisms.

This is a solid take I can just assume I'm too young to have grasped myself.
 

mauf

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I think the best comp for JE is Troy Brown — both above-average WRs and fan favorites who won three rings, but were never mentioned in any serious “best WR in the league” discussion and clearly won’t be getting into Canton without buying a ticket. I didn’t recall any upset when Troy Brown’s #80 was handed out — but they waited several years, and the guy they gave it to (Amendola) was an established player, not a random midseason pickup.

So I guess I can understand the pique. Sort of. For me, I don’t care about any numbers besides 12, and even then, I’d be more upset about putting that kind of expectations on a new guy than denigrating Brady’s legacy.
 

dcdrew10

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Bledsoe is 17th all-time in career passing yards and made four Pro Bowls. Edelman is 160th all-time in career receiving yards and made zero Pro Bowls. Those numbers aren’t quite fair to Edelman, who was a key player on three championship teams, but Bledsoe was on an entirely different level. He was also one of the most significant players in the franchise’s first 40 years of existence.
I came of age in the Bledsoe Era (I, being a die hard Notre Dame fan, was asp pissed that the Pats picked Bledsoe over Rick Mirer, so lets not mistake me for GM material) but am old enough to remember Marc Wilson, Tommy Hodson, Hugh Millian. I think Bledsoe will not get the respect he deserves from folks who became fans in the Brady era, because they just won't know what it was like in the bad old days. It's really hard to quantify how important Bledsoe was for the Pats. He was their first legit QB in a long time (ever?). He put the team on his back and willed them to win on many occasions. Yes, he did make some shitty decisions and throw infuriating INTs, but he also won as many games with his guts as he lost. I can't believe his arm didn't fall off in 1994. He was the reason they made the Super Bowl playoffs that year. Yes, he regressed in the Pete Carrol Era and was kind of shot by the time BB came along, but if you don't remember the Patriots pre-Bledsoe, trust me, you don't want to. When Hugh Million and the corpse of Steve Grogran are the best QBs of your decade, you might have a problem. Bledsoe made the Patriots legit. He laid the groundwork for the Brady Era. He won't get the respect he deserves because Brady was his successor, the end of his career was meh to bad, and Jules got his number, so he became forgettable. I am not saying that 11 will be retired and if it was it would be jointly, not just for Bledsoe. But he deserves our respect and undying gratitude.
 
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tims4wins

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I think the best comp for JE is Troy Brown — both above-average WRs and fan favorites who won three rings, but were never mentioned in any serious “best WR in the league” discussion and clearly won’t be getting into Canton without buying a ticket. I didn’t recall any upset when Troy Brown’s #80 was handed out — but they waited several years, and the guy they gave it to (Amendola) was an established player, not a random midseason pickup.

So I guess I can understand the pique. Sort of. For me, I don’t care about any numbers besides 12, and even then, I’d be more upset about putting that kind of expectations on a new guy than denigrating Brady’s legacy.
Troy Brown was only great for a couple years. Edelman had a much longer peak.

Edit: 2000-2002 for Troy. Whereas Edelman had six years of fantastic play, 2013-2019, minus the 2017 season that he missed.

Double edit: the Pats won a single title with Troy as a starting WR. Come 2003 it was Branch and Givens starting. They won three with Edelman.
 
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Hendu for Kutch

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Troy Brown was only great for a couple years. Edelman had a much longer peak.

Edit: 2000-2002 for Troy. Whereas Edelman had six years of fantastic play, 2013-2019, minus the 2017 season that he missed.

Double edit: the Pats won a single title with Troy as a starting WR. Come 2003 it was Branch and Givens starting. They won three with Edelman.
But who was the better cornerback?
 

FL4WL3SS

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I came of age in the Bledsoe Era (I, being a die hard Notre Dame fan, was asp pissed that the Pats picked Bledsoe over Rick Mirer, so lets not mistake me for GM material) but am old enough to remember Marc Wilson, Tommy Hodson, Hugh Millian. I think Bledsoe will not get the respect he deserves from folks who became fans in the Brady era, because they just won't know what it was like in the bad old days. It's really hard to quantify how important Bledsoe was for the Pats. He was their first legit QB in a long time (ever?). He put the team on his back and willed them to win on many occasions. Yes, he did make some shitty decisions and throw infuriating INTs, but he also won as many games with his guts as he lost. I can't believe his arm didn't fall off in 1994. He was the reason they made the Super Bowl that year. Yes, he regressed in the Pete Carrol Era and was kind of shot by the time BB came along, but if you don't remember the Patriots pre-Bledsoe, trust me, you don't want to. When Hugh Million and the corpse of Steve Grogran are the best QBs of your decade, you might have a problem. Bledsoe made the Patriots legit. He laid the groundwork for the Brady Era. He won't get the respect he deserves because Brady was his successor, the end of his career was meh to bad, and Jules got his number, so he became forgettable. I am not saying that 11 will be retired and if it was it would be jointly, not just for Bledsoe. But he deserves our respect and undying gratitude.
They didn't go to the SB in 1994...
 

dcdrew10

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They didn't go to the SB in 1994...
You're right, playoffs, not Super Bowl. Sorry using SoSH as a distraction from work 11 hours into coding isn't a recipe for success.

I can vividly remember screaming at the TV and head butting the wall so hard I put a hole in it in the first half of the Vikings game. He was also a huge part of making the Super Bowl in 1996, but they had finally got him help with Martin, Glenn, etc.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I'm the same age as Bledsoe and nobody was a bigger fanboy than me. I think it is a close call, but agree neither is retriable and Bledsoe overall was the better player. Arguments for Jules begin and end with his post-season accomplishments, which are amazing, and of course the three rings. But in the context of the era in which he was playing Bledsoe had the better career overall.

It is impossible to overstate how completely irrelevant the Pats were when Bledsoe came along. Kraft and probably Parcells deserve a little more credit in elevating the Pats from a glorified minor-league football team into an actual NFL franchise, but he was instrumental. And he probably could have submarined the entire 2001 season if he wanted to. He wasn't happy about losing his starting job due to injury, and he had a lot of allies in the locker room at a time when Belichick still didn't have much credibility.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I'm the same age as Bledsoe and nobody was a bigger fanboy than me. I think it is a close call, but agree neither is retriable and Bledsoe overall was the better player. Arguments for Jules begin and end with his post-season accomplishments, which are amazing, and of course the three rings. But in the context of the era in which he was playing Bledsoe had the better career overall.

It is impossible to overstate how completely irrelevant the Pats were when Bledsoe came along. Kraft and probably Parcells deserve a little more credit in elevating the Pats from a glorified minor-league football team into an actual NFL franchise, but he was instrumental. And he probably could have submarined the entire 2001 season if he wanted to. He wasn't happy about losing his starting job due to injury, and he had a lot of allies in the locker room at a time when Belichick still didn't have much credibility.
I was 10 in 1992 and Parcells coming in and them drafting Drew were literally life changing events for me. All of a sudden home games started to be on TV and we didn't have to drive to New Hampshire to watch them, the Pats all of a sudden were relevant and there was some hope. I still remember vividly that Miami game I believe in 1994 where Drew was slinging it. Jules was amazing, but 11 will always be Drew Bledsoe in my mind.
 

DJnVa

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Dumb question--can you retire the number for BOTH of them? And if not, why not?
 

jsinger121

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I was 10 in 1992 and Parcells coming in and them drafting Drew were literally life changing events for me. All of a sudden home games started to be on TV and we didn't have to drive to New Hampshire to watch them, the Pats all of a sudden were relevant and there was some hope. I still remember vividly that Miami game I believe in 1994 where Drew was slinging it. Jules was amazing, but 11 will always be Drew Bledsoe in my mind.
That game was wild. It had rained the day before I believe and the baseball diamond was still on the field so it was a mess. 39-35 just a tremendous shootout. Bledsoe had another one the following week at home against Buffalo losing 38-35. I loved that 1994 season. Al Groh brought the shovel to the field as well. That was really the start of the turnaround.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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I would just reserve 11 for our next “should be great” slot guy, although I also came of age in the Bledsoe years and will always associate it with him first. Could be cool/different if they associated certain numbers with players at individual positions (like 24 for our next great corner, etc.). Not quite the 9, 10 soccer approach, but interesting for the team nonetheless.