Jrue the Damaja

TripleOT

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Saw that Jrue was first player in NBA history to win a championship in his first season with two different teams.
Jrue was the first player to win a title in his first season with two different teams while starting the season with both

Sam Cassell was the first player to win a title in his first season with two different teams, as a rookie with the Rockets, and as a buyout FA joining the 2008 Celtics late in the season. He’s also the only man in NBA history to win a title in his first year on two different teams as a player, and in his first season as a coach.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yeah, it’s an interesting discussion but Jrue is the better overall player. Better shooter and better defender. Rondo clearly the better distributor but his inability and downright reluctance to shoot was a real hindrance at times. Of course, national TV Rondo was a real force.

But speaking of Jrue, looking at his stats made me realize that he had 10 years in between all star teams, which I feel has to be close to a record. Anyone know of a longer gap?
Reddit says thst is the longest. Frank Story was previous longest at 7 years according to same thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/10s5rv3/at_10_seasons_jrue_holiday_has_broken_the_record/#
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I loved Rondo, but that Celtics team thinks it was the greatest of all time.

Rondos defense was inconsistent and he got a great reputation early in his career due in large part to the pieces around him. That man loved gambling on defense, and it would be exposed in today's game.

He also couldn't shoot unless it was a layup, and that's kind of a problem.

He was a wizard with the ball and a ton of fun to watch, but if you switch Jrue with Rondo, that 2008 Celtics team is much better, not worse.
Truth saying Tony Allen and Rondo would make the “best” backcourt is another indicator to that. Those two couldn’t hold s canfle to Jrue/Derrick this year.

The only thing about replacing Rondo with Jrue in 2008 is thst every so often, they needed Rondo to take over, which Rondo was more capable of doing than Jrue IMO. Also, Rondo was a much better defendrr IMO against PGs than Jrue was(is).
 

Light-Tower-Power

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If we are just going by DARKO though, it appears that during those championship runs Rondo was better through his first 4 or 5 seasons though
Yes, though I wonder how much of that is Rondo being surrounded by HOFers and Jrue playing on shitty Sixers teams for the first few years of his career.
 

benhogan

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This interview was making the rounds a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember seeing the part about Jrue:

View: https://youtu.be/lPC2fMaJXiM?si=aqjkon_0Lc4KUqSe&t=3822


Brunson is asked which players bring out the best in him and he's hesitant to say (talks up Kemba for a minute, which is fun), but ultimately names Holiday.
When Jrue locks in on defense, it's pretty tight between him & peak-Smart.

With the game moving to the perimeter (ie 4-wide/5-wide) perimeter defense is underrated, while 4 Centers get 1st team All-Defense
 

Brand Name

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But speaking of Jrue, looking at his stats made me realize that he had 10 years in between all star teams, which I feel has to be close to a record. Anyone know of a longer gap?
This is in fact the record, previously seven years by 1954-55 Milwaukee Hawks, 1961-62 Lakers.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This interview was making the rounds a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember seeing the part about Jrue:

View: https://youtu.be/lPC2fMaJXiM?si=aqjkon_0Lc4KUqSe&t=3822


Brunson is asked which players bring out the best in him and he's hesitant to say (talks up Kemba for a minute, which is fun), but ultimately names Holiday.
Thanks for posting. It's amazing how many players have come out and said that Jrue is the best defensive player in the league - Brunson; Draymond on his podcast; KD said it; Halliburton said it; etc. etc. etc.

Maybe next year he'll win DPOY.
 

Montana Fan

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Thanks for posting. It's amazing how many players have come out and said that Jrue is the best defensive player in the league - Brunson; Draymond on his podcast; KD said it; Halliburton said it; etc. etc. etc.

Maybe next year he'll win DPOY.
He is so smooth out there. He slides around the D from player to player like he’s dancing out there. With his quick hands and unbelievable footwork, I bet he’d have been a helluva boxer.
 

Al Zarilla

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Frank Selvy, Mr. 100 at the college level. Can't believe I forgot the name!
He also missed a shot at the end of a finals game 7 against the Celtics that, if it had gone in, would have given the LA Lakers their first title years before they finally got one. Frank is still with us at 91.

Russell got the rebound on Selvy’s missed shot, of course, and Cousy dribbled it out at the end of the subsequent overtime, of course.
View: https://youtu.be/mJXWPQjI020?si=lDszzV3o8gAJw_up
 
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DGreenwood

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He is so smooth out there. He slides around the D from player to player like he’s dancing out there. With his quick hands and unbelievable footwork, I bet he’d have been a helluva boxer.
I know we've all seen this steal a bunch already but I'm reposting because it reinforces the point you make above about his elite footwork. The other day I watched this clip on repeat for a few minutes trying to figure out how Jrue is able to go from that slight stumble to beating Nembhard to that spot for the steal. It doesn't make any sense that he was able to get there.

View: https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1794564966298857773
 

PedroKsBambino

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I love watching that play!

As Jrue comes out of the stumble he goes so quickly to his left/Nembhard's right to get in position to stop the body. What I wonder is how much of that was recognition that, after the stumble, Nembard would move to the lane and the basket (which was Nembhard's right) and how much was a tendency of Nembhard's to go to his right (if there is such a tendency). Whichever it was, or the combination, Jrue's footwork and recover is indeed incredible, as is the handwork.

While Carlisle complained about contact, there really just isn't a case for a foul there either. Just incredible defensive work
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I know we've all seen this steal a bunch already but I'm reposting because it reinforces the point you make above about his elite footwork. The other day I watched this clip on repeat for a few minutes trying to figure out how Jrue is able to go from that slight stumble to beating Nembhard to that spot for the steal. It doesn't make any sense that he was able to get there.

View: https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1794564966298857773
I have this memory (maybe fake, maybe not) that Jrue said at one point that Nembhard likes to go to the middle so he was anticipated Nembhard making that move.

As someone said in the game thread at the time, it was like a CB jumping a route that he knows is coming.
 

Van Everyman

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Love this:

This US roster is loaded with talent, so it caught my attention when Pacers point guard Tyrese Haliburton said he was most looking forward to watching and learning from Holiday. Why?

“I think he’s just the best defensive player, the best defensive guard, for sure, in the NBA,” Haliburton said. “I’ll never be able to be like him physically, but mentally picking his brain, seeing how he does what he does at such a high level. That’s really the main thing, because of how elite he is defensively. And I feel like we have a great relationship. So now that I’m around him more on a more personal basis, I think that’ll be really cool.”
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/07/11/sports/team-usa-basketball-cooper-flagg-jaylen-brown/
 

TripleOT

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Besides having all the physical tools, and 5e right mental mindset, Jrue has a preternatural feel about where to position himself defensively as a play unfolds. The best example was when he jumped out to the side on the Nembhadd last second dribble drive to steal the ball to close out Game three and quash the hopes of the Pacers.


He’s very good on ball, but when he has a matchup where he can rove around, he’s at his most dangerous. Boston is very lucky to have added such a unique talent to support the Jays.
 

lovegtm

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I guess people haven't commented on this because it's almost too obvious to comment on, but it looks like they are going to handle Jrue with kid gloves.

I'd expect PP and Walsh to get a lot more time as a result, and also for the Cs to be ok with Jrue doing his thing where he plays the regular season at 85-90% effort.

Cautiously optimistic that his contract can stay above water for its whole duration?

EDIT: didn't realize how much DARKO still loves Jrue, especially when you factor in how much he turns up the intensity in the postseason:
Screenshot 2024-10-19 at 12.19.11.png
 

lovegtm

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The Jaylen Brown curve shows an obvious flaw in what is otherwise a good singular metric.
Jaylen is tough to measure, because he's the second best player on a team whose best player is a plus-minus god. So, because he's always staggered with that player, even if he posts great Tatumless net ratings like he did last year, he still looks bad to the metric.
 

benhogan

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Jaylen is tough to measure, because he's the second best player on a team whose best player is a plus-minus god. So, because he's always staggered with that player, even if he posts great Tatumless net ratings like he did last year, he still looks bad to the metric.
Yep, teammates matter with DARKO. I like JB a lot more now, but JT is still a much better player when playing with the bench.

ALSO the #6-9 rotational upgrade in play on the Celtics last year was shockingly large over the previous seasons. The NBA media rarely mentions it because the Celtics bench was supposed to be a HUGE problem last year.

Horford, PP, Hauser, Kornet (even an injured Tillman late) don't look the part from central casting. BUT they are all highly efficient basketball players in a Mazzulla-ball system. The first ones to knock even Tatum off the positive On-Off mantle (not to worry JT put up a +10.9 On-Court; DARKO links the two metrics)
 

ALiveH

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Jrue has been consistently durable but is getting up there in age for a guard. Big Al, KP and Jrue need to be managed for the playoffs. Creates a lot of opportunities for coach to experiment with rotations & matchups and for younger guys to show they deserve playoff minutes.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jrue has been consistently durable but is getting up there in age for a guard. Big Al, KP and Jrue need to be managed for the playoffs. Creates a lot of opportunities for coach to experiment with rotations & matchups and for younger guys to show they deserve playoff minutes.
I don't know if it will result in experimental rotations with minutes going to guys that aren't deserving of them but more minutes to guys like Pritchard, Hauser and of course Kornet/Tillman until Porzingis returns. Nothing about Mazzulla's makeup suggests that he won't be looking to win every game with optimal rotations based on player availability every given night.
 

lovegtm

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I don't know if it will result in experimental rotations with minutes going to guys that aren't deserving of them but more minutes to guys like Pritchard, Hauser and of course Kornet/Tillman until Porzingis returns. Nothing about Mazzulla's makeup suggests that he won't be looking to win every game with optimal rotations based on player availability every given night.
I think Walsh is the only guy from the "young" group who they will think has earned a shot at in-real-game development.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think Walsh is the only guy from the "young" group who they will think has earned a shot at in-real-game development.
He’s looked better than Springer and Baylor for sure but he’s been ok but ok in a small handful of preseason games. This isn’t necessarily translatable and certainly not someone to rely on. If a guard goes down this year I’m not sure the replacement in-house would simply be to push everyone up a notch.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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NYT article on Jrue here: How the Celtics’ trust in Jrue Holiday earned NBA championship No. 18. Most interesting part is the description of the 2-1-2 zone BOS breaks out, which I'll copy here for posterity.

But there was one defensive scheme that was entirely Holiday’s domain. The Celtics devised a zone defense with Holiday in the middle, and it was his job to determine when the Celtics would break it out.
If Holiday decided it was time to change the tempo of the game, he would turn to his teammates and mutter, “21 Savage.”
“I can’t remember if it was one of the guys’ favorite rappers, but I was like, ‘Let’s come up with a name just to make it fun,’ ” Mazzulla said. “Maybe it’s because Jrue’s a savage and he’s in the middle?”
Activating 21 Savage was Holiday’s responsibility. Sometimes Mazzulla would ask him during a timeout if they should go into it. Sometimes Holiday wouldn’t say a word, wait until the team gets on the court and then call it out.
It might last several possessions or as short as the first 14 seconds of the shot clock. The team just followed Holiday’s lead as he monitored the state of play.
“To be honest, we don’t even know what we’re doing out there,” Celtics teammate Sam Hauser said. “It’s pretty random. We just figure it out.”
The team trusted that Holiday had his finger on the emotional pulse of the game and counted on him to manipulate the opponent better than anyone else.
“It f—ed up the offense, really,” Holiday said. “Even if we go on a run, they call a timeout, they’re trying to adjust to what we’re doing. So we throw something different at ’em to mess them up too.”
According to teammate Al Horford, the 21 Savage zone works because Holiday is so effective at cleaning up teammates’ mistakes.
“It’s communication and some instinct, to be honest,” Horford said. “If there’s a breakdown or a mistake, he’s covering it up and then we’re reacting off of it and it’s just automatic. We’ve done a good job of trusting each other and instincts just take over.”
If someone was out of position, Holiday would jump in quickly to cover for them and then the rest of the defense would revolve around him. As offenses have increasingly become more read and react, Holiday helped the Celtics’ defense do the same.
“I think it just opened up his creativity and his instincts to do things that, just in the course of the game, he has the ability to do,” Mazzulla said. “When Jrue’s at his best, he’s not thinking. He’s just instinctually reacting and he can change a defensive possession and change an entire game.”
I'm going to hate seeing him play for another team when the taxes get to be too high.
 

lovegtm

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Score one for the "Jrue will be just fine" crowd, because he looks really energetic and sharp lately.
 

tims4wins

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Score one for the "Jrue will be just fine" crowd, because he looks really energetic and sharp lately.
Since the infamous 8-26 game:
8 G
29 MPG
.530 FG
.417 3PT
3.9 RPG
3.6 APG
1.6 SPG
1.3 TOG
11.5 PPG

Rock solid Jrue.

Edit: in his last 3, after sitting 3, he's at .529 from 3

Double edit: Jrue is actually posting the highest 2PT% of his career (.591) as well as the highest FT% of his career. If his 3 point shooting normalizes (which it seems to be), he could have a hell of a 2nd half.
 

bellowthecat

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No doubt he's been playing better lately. The most encouraging thing to me was seeing him lead the team playing 39 minutes in Minnesota and then another 28 last night on the b2b. Good sign to me that he probably isn't secretly nursing any real injury and that the time off truly has been to keep him fresh.