Josh Gordon stepping away from football "for a bit"

axx

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If by some miracle he is allowed to be reinstated, is he still under contract for the Pats?
He was going to be an RFA and I assume he still will be. So they in theory could offer the lowest tender.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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It has been hinted around.... but to speak as someone in recovery, who has relapsed-- odds are it wasn't just "one joint' or "one drink" or "one bump". As was mentioned earlier, one is too many, 1000 is never enough. When one relapses, they don't go back to start. They tend to pick up where they left off, amped up 10x.

That being said - I am guessing that the NFL tests for any trace of... so 1 drink/joint/bump is the same as 100.

I obviously had a bit of a personal interest rooting for him. I know how hard it is to go day to day in a job where only 10's (amounts, not judging their attractiveness) are looking at you. I don't know how I could do managing 100,000's.
 

dcmissle

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Great work by Louis Riddick here —


Most people without direct experience with addiction or mental illness are unable to see the problem clearly. They throw it into the same hamper with driving 115 mph or bringing a gun to a club and shooting yourself in the leg.
 

axx

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Tin foil hat time... but I wonder if the benched/not benched incident was because the Patriots found out that he had relapsed then, but backed out on the benching when they realized they would have to admit it to the League as to the reason.
 

johnmd20

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Tin foil hat time... but I wonder if the benched/not benched incident was because the Patriots found out that he had relapsed then, but backed out on the benching when they realized they would have to admit it to the League as to the reason.
This is breathtaking.
 

Dick Drago

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I usually like Wiley, but that was ridiculous--bringing up Hernandez etc was completely irrelevant.
 

LesterFan

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The New England Patriots had an elaborate security plan in place to try to prevent the exact slipup that cost wide receiver Josh Gordon this season and quite possibly his NFL career, sources tell ESPN.
New England assigned people to be with Gordon at all times so that he could avoid the temptations that landed him on the suspended list last week, according to sources.
Sources believe that Gordon somehow eluded New England's security team during the team's Nov. 18 bye weekend, when the Patriots had their weekend off.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25600050/new-england-patriots-attempted-prevent-josh-gordon-slipup-elaborate-security-plan
 

johnmd20

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j44thor

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Recovery is for people who want it, not need it. You can't lock someone in a room to get them clean. This story is a tragedy of wasted talent and it's depressing, not because the Pats lost a WR, but because alcohol and drugs are ruining Gordon's life.
I don't think it is that simple. There are many addicts that want to recover but can't because the chemicals in their brain won't allow them to. Addiction is a mental health problem not something most can "will" themselves to change.
 

johnmd20

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I don't think it is that simple. There are many addicts that want to recover but can't because the chemicals in their brain won't allow them to. Addiction is a mental health problem not something most can "will" themselves to change.
It's not about will, man. I literally didn't say anything remotely close to that. In fact, it's the opposite of will, it's powerlessness.

But if Gordon got the support and help he needed, and committed to it, he would not have wanted to use. All addicts have chemicals in their brain which compel them to take destructive actions, it's mystifying you would defend Gordon like he's some special specimen of addiction. Many addicts are clean and don't use, no matter what is going on in their life. Why didn't they use? Because they wanted to get clean, get honest, and improve. It's not about who needs it, it's about who wants it.

There is a solution to addiction for those who want it. Gordon has been presented with this solution. And it didn't take. And it's a tragedy and I hope he can find the solution.
 

j44thor

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It's not about will, man. I literally didn't say anything remotely close to that. In fact, it's the opposite of will, it's powerlessness.

But if Gordon got the support and help he needed, and committed to it, he would not have wanted to use. All addicts have chemicals in their brain which compel them to take destructive actions, it's mystifying you would defend Gordon like he's some special specimen of addiction. Many addicts are clean and don't use, no matter what is going on in their life. Why didn't they use? Because they wanted to get clean, get honest, and improve. It's not about who needs it, it's about who wants it.

There is a solution to addiction for those who want it. Gordon has been presented with this solution. And it didn't take. And it's a tragedy and I hope he can find the solution.
What solution was he presented with besides a security detail? If he has anxiety/social disorders the last thing he probably needs is someone constantly monitoring him. There isn't a neat and tidy solution to addiction, every situation is different.
 

johnmd20

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What solution was he presented with besides a security detail? If he has anxiety/social disorders the last thing he probably needs is someone constantly monitoring him. There isn't a neat and tidy solution to addiction, every situation is different.
There are a bunch of paths to getting clean. One path: Gordon could have committed himself to a 12 Step Program and followed it. It would have given him a chance to stay clean. It's historically a great way to get clean and stay clean and live a full life, free of compulsion.

The other option is to try to follow him around and make sure he's forced not to use, which is obviously a failing strategy. Note, I am not blaming Gordon, addiction is brutal but it is also up to the addict to take the next right action. Gordon, like many addicts, has failed repeatedly to do this. It's not a moral failing, it's a mental illness, but it is a failing.

If you had cancer and the Doctor said, "Ok, it's treatable, we caught it early, do these prescribed things and you'll get better, and if you don't, you will die," and then you turned around and did none of those things and died, people would think you were an idiot. Addiction isn't dissimilar. There is a path to getting clean but you have to follow the prescription.
 

Harry Hooper

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At this point shouldn't Rappaport just recuse himself from covering this story?
 

maufman

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At this point shouldn't Rappaport just recuse himself from covering this story?
Rapoport should refrain from reporting stories based on Patriots’ sources, because it’s clear he doesn’t know who’s reliable and who isn’t. But I assume his sources for this story are in the league office. Unfortunately, that means the story is likely true.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Rapoport should refrain from reporting stories based on Patriots’ sources, because it’s clear he doesn’t know who’s reliable and who isn’t. But I assume his sources for this story are in the league office. Unfortunately, that means the story is likely true.
You missed Deflategate, I take it?
 

maufman

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You missed Deflategate, I take it?
Seems to me that he dutifully reported what his sources in the league office told him, but had no good sources in the Pats’ organization.

Being a mouthpiece for the league office is a poor way to get at the truth of a story like DFG, but gives Rapaport the inside scoop on a story like this one. It’s like Jon Heyman reporting on a story where Scott Boras is the best source of information.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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There are a bunch of paths to getting clean. One path: Gordon could have committed himself to a 12 Step Program and followed it. It would have given him a chance to stay clean. It's historically a great way to get clean and stay clean and live a full life, free of compulsion.

The other option is to try to follow him around and make sure he's forced not to use, which is obviously a failing strategy. Note, I am not blaming Gordon, addiction is brutal but it is also up to the addict to take the next right action. Gordon, like many addicts, has failed repeatedly to do this. It's not a moral failing, it's a mental illness, but it is a failing.

If you had cancer and the Doctor said, "Ok, it's treatable, we caught it early, do these prescribed things and you'll get better, and if you don't, you will die," and then you turned around and did none of those things and died, people would think you were an idiot. Addiction isn't dissimilar. There is a path to getting clean but you have to follow the prescription.
Thanks for posting this. Some of us often have discussions regarding 'addiction' vis a vis 'mental illness' and there is no easy way to define when or if the 'disease of addiction' and 'mental illness' cross-over to one another. Many recovering addicts treat their 'bi-polar' or other traditionally defined mental illnesses that they suffer with separate from their 'disease of addiction' or 'drug addiction'. I'm one who believes these issues are pretty much separate as I know many recovering addicts who need no medication/mood stabilizers or anti-depressants and show little sign of 'mental illness' once they are clean. I count myself as one of those recovering people.

The reality is the vast majority of addicts never get and stay clean for any significant period of time whether it is within a 12 step program/fellowship or through other means I'm totally unfamiliar with. It us certainly true that recovering and total abstinence is for those who want it but the reality is that the addict must be willing to do things to get and stay clean. In my experience, a huge amount of meetings, step-work, service work and the utilization of sponsorship are needed in order for a drug addict to not use drugs one day at a time. Therefore since most addicts are unwilling to do those things, most addicts use drugs.
 

johnmd20

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In my experience, a huge amount of meetings, step-work, service work and the utilization of sponsorship are needed in order for a drug addict to not use drugs one day at a time. Therefore since most addicts are unwilling to do those things, most addicts use drugs.
My story and my results are the same. For that I am grateful, I was very fortunate and very lucky. Not everyone is. I'm sure you've seen people constantly relapsing and it's brutal to watch but it's significantly more brutal for the person relapsing. It's a soul breaking experience and my heart goes out to all of those people who are sick and suffering, not just Gordon.
 

BillLeesJumpShot

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My story and my results are the same. For that I am grateful, I was very fortunate and very lucky. Not everyone is. I'm sure you've seen people constantly relapsing and it's brutal to watch but it's significantly more brutal for the person relapsing. It's a soul breaking experience and my heart goes out to all of those people who are sick and suffering, not just Gordon.
I had the same experience as the two of you a little over 20 years ago, with being totally unable to quit using and drinking on my own. I hit my rock bottom and once I walked into a 12-step program, haven't relapsed since. That was only possible by doing the work and taking suggestions from people in that program who had what I wanted. Totally immersed myself, because I didn't want to return to that cycle of hopelessness I was mired in.
There were a lot of folk who kept relapsing, but they seemed to be incapable of doing what worked for most of us. Others relapsed for many years and then some switch flipped and they 'got' it.
I have no idea if Josh will get it or not, but I have seen folk who seemed unable to do what it takes, then did. Also have seen people that faded after a fast start. Having been through the experience of carrying a black hole in my spirit, I know what he is going through and hope he can find the path forward.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Seems to me that he dutifully reported what his sources in the league office told him, but had no good sources in the Pats’ organization.

Being a mouthpiece for the league office is a poor way to get at the truth of a story like DFG, but gives Rapaport the inside scoop on a story like this one. It’s like Jon Heyman reporting on a story where Scott Boras is the best source of information.
Right but you said because he had sources in the league office his story was likely true. Deflategate showed many times that league sources said things which were untrue. That was my point.

No question if someone said he has league sources so he’s a reasonable source of info on what the league spin is that makes sense, and is comparable to Boras. But league (or Boras sources see e.g. “mystery team” with interest in FA) have reasons to spin on many stories
 

maufman

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Right but you said because he had sources in the league office his story was likely true. Deflategate showed many times that league sources said things which were untrue. That was my point.

No question if someone said he has league sources so he’s a reasonable source of info on what the league spin is that makes sense, and is comparable to Boras. But league (or Boras sources see e.g. “mystery team” with interest in FA) have reasons to spin on many stories
My first post wasn’t clear.

In this case, Rapoport is saying what the grounds were for Gordon’s suspension, and what will need to be true for him to be reinstated. Seems like the league office is a perfect source for that story — in contrast to Rapoport’s story a few weeks ago, when he incorrectly reported that Gordon would be benched for the 1st quarter of a game, which is a story that required well-placed sources within the Patriots’ organization.

A key problem with Rapoport’s coverage of DFG was that he conflated knowledge of the league office’s thinking with knowledge of the true facts, when his sources could only speak to the former. If he was a real journalist, he probably would have lost his job for that.
 

bsj

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It seems highly likely Gordon is gone for good from New England. While they have not released him, his jersey is on the same clearance price as Cooks on their website
 

McBride11

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It seems highly likely Gordon is gone for good from New England. While they have not released him, his jersey is on the same clearance price as Cooks on their website
Keeping him on roster allows him access to NFL resources? medical programs, counseling, etc?
 

djbayko

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It seems highly likely Gordon is gone for good from New England. While they have not released him, his jersey is on the same clearance price as Cooks on their website
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but isn’t it possible they’d be trying to get rid of inventory in a similar fashion if his future was just uncertain?
 

BigJimEd

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Gordon's been suspended indefinitely by the NFL. His contract is up with the Patriots at the end of the season. He missed over 2 1/2 years during a previous suspension. No one knows if or when he'll be allowed to play in the NFL. Most would suggest or is a long shot.

I don't need an inside source in football ops to know those jerseys might be a tough sell for a while.
 

KiltedFool

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If a miracle happens and he ever gets to wear a jersey again, the NFL will order and sell a new batch. For now they're selling them while they have any value at all so as not to ship them wherever the champions shirts for the World Series losing teams get shipped.

Hope he can recover his life.