Jonnu Smith Traded To ATL

[Cellar-Door]

He wasn’t very good in the McDaniels offense either

He was better though and was used more on rushes. He was unlikely to be worth his contract either way, but his inability to play full time snaps because of Henry hurt him a lot more. Under the McDaniels offense, if he was playing 80 something percent of snaps and producing something like 5-600 yards he'd have been much less disappointing. We can see that with Henry, people don't consider him anywhere near the same kind of failure, but the biggest difference in their production is that Henry got a higher snap % and all the goalline targets.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Even more crazy when they barely used Pitts last year

Well, as pointed out, you can't really use anyone when Marcus Mariota is throwing the ball.

That said, Pitts was really hurt a lot last year. Slow start in weeks 1 and 2, and then goes for 5/87 in week 3. Then gets hurt during week 4, and missed week 5. Then a couple weeks building back up, and goes for 5/80/1td in week 8. He gets 15 targets in weeks 9 and 10, and only 4 catches (see Mariota), then in week 10, he has 3 catches for 43 yards, when IIRC, he was hurt on the opening drive of the 2nd half and that was the end of his season.

I think if healthy, he immediately goes back to being a 1,000 yard receiver like he was in his rookie year.

 

[SMU_Sox]

IDK if they didn't know how to use him that well. Felt like they ran several plays a game to just get him the ball like little screens and he just didn't deliver. Never felt like he could get open downfield. Obviously the Pats offense has been a mess during his career here, but he just didn't seem to be very good.

See I agree with you here. @Super Nomario mentioned this elsewhere but in Jonnu’s career year he was ranked by ESPN’s player tracking and charting data as the worst receiver in the NFL (correct me if I got the wording wrong). He’s a shit route runner and he sucks with contested catches. He’s a schemed touch and gadget guy. They didn’t use him as much as they could have but he was also an awful blocker. It was hard to justify him being on the field.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Kind of Wes Welker's evil twin if BB thought he could bring in an offensive player with untapped potential from another NFL team.

 

[Saints Rest]

Kind of Wes Welker's evil twin if BB thought he could bring in an offensive player with untapped potential from another NFL team.

If only he had been around to catch a SB-clinching 1st down reception to complete the ying to Welker's yang.

 

[SMU_Sox]

He has to rank on the list of FA signing busts right? Top 3 maybe?

 

[JM3]

He has to rank on the list of FA signing busts right? Top 3 maybe?

He was on Reiss's top 3 of the BB era...

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1635305328106692608?cxt=HHwWgIDT0YPi4rEtAAAA

 

[tims4wins]

Funny thing about that list is this forum was probably in favor for at least 2 of those signings.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Bill has few high dollar FA failures but mostly just because he has few high dollar FA signings

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

He was on Reiss's top 3 of the BB era...

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1635305328106692608?cxt=HHwWgIDT0YPi4rEtAAAA

I think they ultimately got some salary relief on Antonio Brown. Might have been closer to $5 million plus one game of salary. Shitty part is they won 43-0, so they didn't really need him.

 

[Justthetippett]

He was on Reiss's top 3 of the BB era...

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1635305328106692608?cxt=HHwWgIDT0YPi4rEtAAAA

No Ochocinco? He was pretty atrocious. Jonnu has to be the worst bang for the buck though.

 

[Saints Rest]

Who were the best?

1. Gilmore
2. Judon
3. Rodney

HM: Revis, Amendola, Phifer

Who else?

 

[RIrooter09]

No Ochocinco? He was pretty atrocious. Jonnu has to be the worst bang for the buck though.

Ocho was a trade.

 

[JM3]

No Ochocinco? He was pretty atrocious. Jonnu has to be the worst bang for the buck though.

Ocho was acquired in a trade for a 2012 5th & 2013 6th, so not eligible.

He agreed to a restructured 3 year deal with the Patriots after the trade - 3 year/$12m, but they cut him after 1 year & paid him $5.75m, which is admittedly a lot for 276 yards.

Something I just found out (forgot about & found out again?), is that the Bengals drafted Marvin Jones with that 5th round pick in 2012, who put up 1,729 yards over his rookie contract (despite missing a year due to injury), for a cost of $2.3m. The 6th round pick was another wide receiver who did not pan out, Cobi Hamilton.

 

[Jinhocho]

Who were the best?

1. Gilmore
2. Judon
3. Rodney

HM: Revis, Amendola, Phifer

Who else?

I think you have to rank Rodney first on there...

 

[tims4wins]

Who were the best?

1. Gilmore
2. Judon
3. Rodney

HM: Revis, Amendola, Phifer

Who else?

Vrabel
Hogan
Colvin

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Vrabel
Hogan
Colvin

Colvin? Really?

I’m not sure Amendola was a particularly great value signing, either. Certainly had his moments but I think his overall production was probably below expectations, no?

 

[tims4wins]

Colvin? Really?

I’m not sure Amendola was a particularly great value signing, either. Certainly had his moments but I think his overall production was probably below expectations, no?

Colvin was a pretty darn good player for the Pats despite missing his entire first year due to the knee injury.

 

[JM3]

Colvin was a pretty darn good player for the Pats despite missing his entire first year due to the knee injury.

In 6 years he had 26.5 sacks (after 21 combined in the 2 years before they signed him).

This Bleacher Report article from 2011 had Colvin as the 3rd worst signing of the BB era...

3. Rosevelt Colvin
Colvin was supposed to make a splash in New England after they signed him away from the Chicago Bears where he formed a fearsome tandem with LB Brian Urlacher. Though he could often show flashes of brilliance, Colvin was hampered with injuries and never lived up to his pricey contract of nearly $30 million.
His ability to rush the passer was at times a boon, and it was underscored when he was unable to stay healthy. He was finally released as a salary cap casualty when he was scheduled to count for $7.6 million against it. He wasn't terrible, but he certainly wasn't worth his big-ticket price tag.

They actually had Adalius Thomas as the worst FA signing at that point.

www.bleacherreport.com/articles/831422-new-england-patriots-the-11-worst-signings-of-the-bill-belichick-era

 

[tims4wins]

In 6 years he had 26.5 sacks (after 21 combined in the 2 years before they signed him).

This Bleacher Report article from 2011 had Colvin as the 3rd worst signing of the BB era...



They actually had Adalius Thomas as the worst FA signing at that point.

www.bleacherreport.com/articles/831422-new-england-patriots-the-11-worst-signings-of-the-bill-belichick-era

I mean he tore his knee at the start of 2003. He probably would have been a monster if that didn’t happen. But even so he was a productive player for them from 2004-2007. 26.5 in 6 years isn’t really fair. He basically played 4 seasons in NE.

 

[Justthetippett]

Ocho was acquired in a trade for a 2012 5th & 2013 6th, so not eligible.

He agreed to a restructured 3 year deal with the Patriots after the trade - 3 year/$12m, but they cut him after 1 year & paid him $5.75m, which is admittedly a lot for 276 yards.

Something I just found out (forgot about & found out again?), is that the Bengals drafted Marvin Jones with that 5th round pick in 2012, who put up 1,729 yards over his rookie contract (despite missing a year due to injury), for a cost of $2.3m. The 6th round pick was another wide receiver who did not pan out, Cobi Hamilton.

My bad. But we paid him and gave up draft capital. Yikes. He belongs in the worst acquisition list instead.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Who were the best?

1. Gilmore
2. Judon
3. Rodney

HM: Revis, Amendola, Phifer

Who else?

Phifer gets on the HM list, and Bobby Hamilton on the HM list to the HM list.

 

[Devizier]

Who else?

Vrabel?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

He was better though and was used more on rushes. He was unlikely to be worth his contract either way, but his inability to play full time snaps because of Henry hurt him a lot more. Under the McDaniels offense, if he was playing 80 something percent of snaps and producing something like 5-600 yards he'd have been much less disappointing. We can see that with Henry, people don't consider him anywhere near the same kind of failure, but the biggest difference in their production is that Henry got a higher snap % and all the goalline targets.

I disagree about this. I think Jonnu was a gadget guy who can't run routes and get open downfield.

 

[rodderick]

Who were the best?

1. Gilmore
2. Judon
3. Rodney

HM: Revis, Amendola, Phifer

Who else?

Amendola for the contract he originally signed is far closer to ranking among the worst than best FAs of the Belichick era.

 

[epraz]

Just a small note on why Miguel is so much better than all the lazy reporters. The reason that there was 3.6 million in savings not the full 4.4 million that everyone but Miguel reports is that he understands how the cap works. You always have to take into account when a player drops off the 51 that another player comes on, and that player makes at least $750,000.

Isn’t this a matter of semantics? If the pats signed another player to replace Jonnu on a one year contract, it could have a cap hit of 4.4M and put the pats back to where they were before the trade. I suppose Miguel’s calculation is more convenient when you’re considering cap room for extensions and restructuring the current roster.

 

[jsinger121]

I mean he tore his knee at the start of 2003. He probably would have been a monster if that didn’t happen. But even so he was a productive player for them from 2004-2007. 26.5 in 6 years isn’t really fair. He basically played 4 seasons in NE.

He didn’t tear his knee. He had a major hip injury that took a year to recover. Happened in game 2 against Philadelphia.

 

[Van Everyman]

Most of the bad signings were injury related:

Colvin injured his hip (not knee) – he actually had to re-learn how to *walk*.

Adalius – was possibly the best player in the Scottish Game and was a beast in 2008 – the Favre body slam is an all time sack.Then he got hurt, missed practice in 2009 and that was it for him.

Amendola tore his groin – had one of the most incredible halves of football I remember in his debut angainst the Bills. Then he got hurt and in some ways was never the same, in that he wasn’t really reliable for another 1.5 seasons and then mostly in the playoffs. As noted above he wasn’t worth the original contract but Bill renegotiated it several times over the course of his time here (before he left in 2018, I suspect he didn’t appreciate constantly being asked to restructure his deal).

 

[Super Nomario]

He was better though and was used more on rushes. He was unlikely to be worth his contract either way, but his inability to play full time snaps because of Henry hurt him a lot more. Under the McDaniels offense, if he was playing 80 something percent of snaps and producing something like 5-600 yards he'd have been much less disappointing. We can see that with Henry, people don't consider him anywhere near the same kind of failure, but the biggest difference in their production is that Henry got a higher snap % and all the goalline targets.

He had 9 carries and 2 first downs in 2021 - his rushing didn't move the needle at all.

They paid Jonnu a ton of money. I'm sure they wanted him to play a lot more snaps than he was playing. He didn't play more not because Henry was there but because he was bad. They would have absolutely found snaps for him if he was good. Instead they found it was better to play a fullback (in 2021) or a third WR (even though the WR weren't particularly good) instead. Because Jonnu stinks.

And yes, if Jonnu racked up 500-600 yards, people wouldn't mind the signing. But he's never even hit 450.

 

[tims4wins]

He didn’t tear his knee. He had a major hip injury that took a year to recover. Happened in game 2 against Philadelphia.

Ah that's right, hip, not knee. Thanks.

 

[tims4wins]

Most of the bad signings were injury related:

Colvin injured his hip (not knee) – he actually had to re-learn how to *walk*.

Adalius – was possibly the best player in the Scottish Game and was a beast in 2008 – the Favre body slam is an all time sack.Then he got hurt, missed practice in 2009 and that was it for him.

Amendola tore his groin – had one of the most incredible halves of football I remember in his debut angainst the Bills. Then he got hurt and in some ways was never the same, in that he wasn’t really reliable for another 1.5 seasons and then mostly in the playoffs. As noted above he wasn’t worth the original contract but Bill renegotiated it several times over the course of his time here (before he left in 2018, I suspect he didn’t appreciate constantly being asked to restructure his deal).

All good points. Especially on Dola. His first game was incredible.

Edit: 10 catches on 14 targets for 104 yards, which doesn't jump off the page. But there were some huge plays in there:
6 yard catch on 3rd and 3
13 yard catch on 3rd and 10
19 yard catch on 3rd and 6
13 yard catch on 3rd and 10
6 yard catch on 3rd and 3
6 yard catch on 2nd and 4
10 yard catch on 3rd and 8

Those were all in the 2nd half. All 7 of those catches went for first downs, and 6 of them occurred on 3rd down.

 

[rodderick]

He had 9 carries and 2 first downs in 2021 - his rushing didn't move the needle at all.

They paid Jonnu a ton of money. I'm sure they wanted him to play a lot more snaps than he was playing. He didn't play more not because Henry was there but because he was bad. They would have absolutely found snaps for him if he was good. Instead they found it was better to play a fullback (in 2021) or a third WR (even though the WR weren't particularly good) instead. Because Jonnu stinks.

And yes, if Jonnu racked up 500-600 yards, people wouldn't mind the signing. But he's never even hit 450.

This is all true, but two things I'll say in Jonnu's defense are that he was really good as a blocker and they asked a lot of him in that role and in the designed plays in which he did get the ball he broke more tackles than anyone else on the team (the fact that even then he averaged 9 yards per catch is at least partially a fault of play design). But yeah, he can't run routes and you can't have a blocking TE at that price.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Rob Ninkovich deserves a spot on the best signings list

 

[Bowser]

I might add Donald Hayes to the worst list. Signed him in 2002 to some fanfare, 2 years and $4MM. At the time $2MM was the going rate for the likes of Hines Ward, Santana Moss, and Torry Holt. Hayes, 26, was coming off two productive seasons and would add some needed size to our corps. He was released the next year after catching just 12 balls.

Edit: Holt and Moss were on their rookie contracts at that time.

 

[Devizier]

The noteworthy thing about the Jonnu signing is that it was bad money for a young guy who didn't get injured.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Isn’t this a matter of semantics? If the pats signed another player to replace Jonnu on a one year contract, it could have a cap hit of 4.4M and put the pats back to where they were before the trade. I suppose Miguel’s calculation is more convenient when you’re considering cap room for extensions and restructuring the current roster.

You make a good point. I think it's a technical point -- and maybe immaterial given that cap space is not really likely to be an issue for the Patriots prior to the season starting. I guess a lot of the time when we talk about "cap space" or the like, it's good to give the context.

The top 51 gives teams a break in the pre-season period -- that is after the start of the league year and before the start of the regular season, they don't need to include all salaries in their cap, just the top 51. Eventually, ever salary will count, including whomever they sign to replace Smith. But for now (well, Friday), every time you lose a guy from your roster, a new guy ends up top 51. In this preseason period, it's basically going to be someone making league minimum or close. So, for calculating cap room from now until September, every player who leaves means you tack on $750,000 at the bottom.