I highly doubt that Collins has a ton of freedom out there. The whole organizational mantra is do your job.
Jones, Hightower, and Collins - You Pick
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For those of us who put DH over JC or couldnt break the tie (me, SSF), Bedard put Hightower on his mid-season All-Pro list but not Collins.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/05/blanket-coverage-nfl-week-9-all-pro
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/05/blanket-coverage-nfl-week-9-all-pro
amarshal2 said:
I agree with a lot of this, but it makes me favor Collins as the less replaceable.
Ultimately, this conversation underscores the symbiotic nature of having the right pieces that work together, which is why I'm not huge on player ranking. Same as how Browner was awesome with Revis here, but expendable due to lesser value once he left.
As I see it, I think Collins makes DH possible and DH makes Collins possible--and same with Jones. Each doing their job helps others do their jobs.
I think Collins it is more likely BB can find a replacement for DH's job to allow Collins to be Collins than it is that he finds a Collins replacement to allow DH to be DH. They're both great, but Collins can do more things.
I agree with the idea that Jones is a luxury. If I had to choose just one, I suppose it would have to be Collins. Then again I would hate to have to find another leader for the defense. Collins is a freak though...but Hightower is so solid against the run and a better pass rusher...guess I'd flip a coin if it came down to it.
All three of these guys are up after 2016 - and the same is true of Butler, Ryan, Harmon, Sheard, Branch, Ninkovich, and Freeny. That's 10 of the 17 players who've played the most on defense this year, plus Siliga and T.Brown who are up at the end of this year. Leaves only McCourty, Chung, Coleman (who is up after 2016 but I believe a ERFA), M.Brown, and Easley.
EDIT: In light of the above contract picture, it may come down to a) who they can re-sign at reasonable cost, and b) who they can replace through the draft. Easley, Flowers, and Grissom are potential pass rush help. Darryl Roberts and Jordan Richards could take on a bigger role in the secondary. The next draft or two are going to be interesting.
EDIT: In light of the above contract picture, it may come down to a) who they can re-sign at reasonable cost, and b) who they can replace through the draft. Easley, Flowers, and Grissom are potential pass rush help. Darryl Roberts and Jordan Richards could take on a bigger role in the secondary. The next draft or two are going to be interesting.
Great topic. My heart says Collins should be first, but my head says Hightower. The 2000s Belichick defenses were always predicated on stopping the run first. Remember how much it sucked to go from Ted Johnson to Monty Beisel? It took a whole bunch of over the hill or misfit parts to replicate that (Seau, Bruschi Alexander, Davis) before they finally nailed Hightower--and even he was looking at being a bust for a little while there. That said, you can make a case that the rule changes make a hybrid like Collins more important, but I think that's where the Malcom Brown and DL upgrades can help mitigate the loss of a Collins.
Net/net, I think that means Jones is the odd man out, which is kind of funny considering how much we've bemoaned the lack of a dominant pass rusher over the years.
Net/net, I think that means Jones is the odd man out, which is kind of funny considering how much we've bemoaned the lack of a dominant pass rusher over the years.
Chandler Jones on SoundFX:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000578255/Sound-FX-Chandler-Jones
God damn, this was fun to watch. He's like a little kid out there, even in the thick of a live game. I love the part where Bill tells him to drill the outside edge rusher on the next kick -> Jones drills him -> "I got him good, coach. He doesn't wanna do that anymore."
Also, "Gronky".
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000578255/Sound-FX-Chandler-Jones
God damn, this was fun to watch. He's like a little kid out there, even in the thick of a live game. I love the part where Bill tells him to drill the outside edge rusher on the next kick -> Jones drills him -> "I got him good, coach. He doesn't wanna do that anymore."
Also, "Gronky".
Great stuff. I love the part where he realizes that Brady can't hear him cheering on the sidelines. The guy next to him is just like, whatever dude.
That was awesome. "The guy next to him" is Easley, his stoicism was too funny.
"First we gonna stop the run, then we gonna have some fun" - awesome slogan
Also, LOVED the PAT protection footage / interaction with BB. Awesome.
Also, LOVED the PAT protection footage / interaction with BB. Awesome.
I was giggling so hard, I was getting weird looks in O'Hare.
Also - it was pretty interesting how quickly he disengaged with his blocker on those run plays. For the knowledgable among us - is that something that he sees happening in the backfield, and plans; or is he just reacting to the runner going past him?
Chandler wasn't even born when LT was miked up for the original woofing about "crazed dogs out there" - a testament to NFL Films
I was trying to laugh quietly, as my wife was still sleeping.
To your point, I think it is a little of both, but is mostly reactionary. As KFP said, a good D-lineman is always looking upfield for the ball. You can't become blinded while engaging (or trying to fight off) the blocker.
That sack he had was just silly, the one where the O tackle never moved. That guy forgot the snap count. Oops
Yes, that was the best part.
Here's the thing I want to know about Chanandler: for three years we've been seeing him get mugged by tackles and it never getting called. Like, almost ever. And then he gets hurt so he isn't able to really establish his dominance as a leading edge guy in the League over the course of a full season.
Now he leads the League in sacks and is getting some national attention. At what point do the referees start calling holding against the guys blocking him because he commands more respect? And how much better does he get once these guys have to block him legally?
Thanks, this is terrific. I don't know what NFL locker room dynamics are usually like, but in general it seems like the position groups are really tight and Jones is a guy who bridges a lot of the different groups. Gronk credited Jones with coming up with the Buckhingham celebration in London, and I remember thinking that it was kind of a funny that Jones and Gronk would talk about stuff, especially since Jones was just a rookie that year. I always see him in pictures with the offensive players as well as the defensive guys - he seems very extroverted and like he gets along with everyone. It's cool that now, in his fourth year, he's channeling that into vocal leadership and trying to fire up his teammates. It seems like he's stepped into the leadership void that Wilfork left, at least a little bit.
Yeah, I love this. And it's just such great Belichick stuff, too - here he is, so in tune with everything that's going on that he's giving a tip on how to block on the edge on an extra point. BTW, I think Jones is playing the role Gronk played before he broke his arm.
I know people have been harping on this for years, but I think it's completely overblown. Yes, Jones get held a lot and it doesn't get called a lot, but so does every edge rusher. I can't find current "holding penalties drawn" stats, but here's the leaderboard for 2011: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2012/who-drew-most-offensive-holding-flags-2011. Wake was the only guy to draw more than 7, and he was only drawing one every other game as a pass-rusher. You don't think these guys were held a bunch of times and it wasn't called? No one draws multiple holding penalties a game; it doesn't happen and it's not going to happen.
EDIT: Bedard charted in 2013 and no one had more than 4 drawn holds through Week 15: http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert-quinn-pressure-points
I thought Gronk played that spot on the left side of the line during extra points but I could be wrong.
I'm not saying that it will be called a ton more -- I totally agree that multiple holds per game is a pipe dream. I'm saying that it could be called more enough that other teams begin to hold him less obviously and, thus, less effectively. Which could mean he becomes even more of a beast.
Especially when you consider that the Patriots have so many extra point tries, that if the head coach ever was going to "take a play off" it would be on one of them. Not Bill though.
My point is that you're operating from the assumption that Chandler is being treated differently than other edge rushers when it comes to holds called, and frankly I don't think there's any reason to believe that that is the case.
Re: Jones
I've been very pleasantly surprised to see him start using more moves than his trademark speed rush around the outside of the tackle. I've seen him use his speed to go under and inside his man, and with his strength and speed combo it's worked wonders.
I've been very pleasantly surprised to see him start using more moves than his trademark speed rush around the outside of the tackle. I've seen him use his speed to go under and inside his man, and with his strength and speed combo it's worked wonders.
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