Joe McDonald: Duran coming up

Diamond Don Aase

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Barring this being a call-up to cover a Verdugo IL trip, I think he's Arroyo's platoon partner for now. Starts in CF against righties, with Kike playing 2B. Sits against lefties.

He has a reverse split in his pro career so far, but I still think easing him in as the strong side of a platoon and seeing how he adjusts would be the smartest way to begin his career. If he responds well and/or other guys (like Arroyo) falter, give him more playing time. If he doesn't, Worcester's not that far away.
Hernandez has a career .290 OBP against right-handlers, although slightly better in 2021. Renfroe has a .268 OBP versus RHP this season, identical to his career mark. If Duran is to be deployed in a platoon role, there is no good reason that those opportunities should come solely or even primarily at Arroyo’s expense.
 

Coachster

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Is there a spot on the 40-man? Is there anybody who can move to the 60 day IL? Or.... is this going to be the end of the line /DFA for Danny Boy? (The pipes, the pipes are calling....)
 

chawson

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Hernandez has a career .290 OBP against right-handlers, although slightly better in 2021. Renfroe has a .268 OBP versus RHP this season, identical to his career mark. If Duran is to be deployed in a platoon role, there is no good reason that those opportunities should come solely or even primarily at Arroyo’s expense.
Renfroe’s been much better than that since he figured his shit out on May 1. I’m all for giving him a breather now and then but he’s made steady progress all season and really seems to be making the leap to a full-time regular. After a rough first month, he’s basically been Mitch Haniger, and it looks sustainable.

Kiké too has been fantastic, but I’m less excited about blocking his development than I am with Renfroe, who looks like he could give us three arbitration years of above-average production in one of baseball’s toughest outfield positions. I don’t think we should demote either of them to a platoon role.
 
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Diamond Don Aase

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Renfroe’s been much better than that since he figured his shit out on May 1. I’m all for giving him a breather now and then but he’s made steady progress all season and really seems to be making the leap to a full-time regular and a Mitch Haniger-type. Kiké too has been fantastic. I don’t think we should demote either of them to a platoon role.
Renfroe has a .268 OBP versus RHP this season, identical to his career mark. He is what he has always been, which is a platoon player whose defense merits something slightly more than just the short side of that platoon.
 

chawson

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Renfroe has a .268 OBP versus RHP this season, identical to his career mark. He is what he has always been, which is a platoon player whose defense merits something slightly more than just the short side of that platoon.
I’m seeing something more from him. Compare what he’s doing against righties this year with his previous best season.

2019 v. RHP: .295 xwOBA, 11.4% swinging strikes
2021 v. RHP: .331 xwOBA (.356 since 5/1), 8.8% swinging strikes

Renfroe’s production against lefties has been as advertised, but there’s mounting evidence he’s the everyday player Bloom said he believed him to be after he signed.
 

Apisith

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Kike’s on course to give us 5 wins. He needs playing time and I’m not sure I’m happy with giving Duran the CF job because he’s a much poorer fielder relative to Kike. We gotta get Duran some at-bats but hopefully it doesn’t result in poorer outfield fielding.
 

BornToRun

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I’m seeing something more from him. Compare what he’s doing against righties this year with his previous best season.

2019 v. RHP: .295 xwOBA, 11.4% swinging strikes
2021 v. RHP: .331 xwOBA (.356 since 5/1), 8.8% swinging strikes

Renfroe’s production against lefties has been as advertised, but there’s mounting evidence he’s the everyday player Bloom said he believed him to be after he signed.
And to be a little cruder, his OPS against righties is just under .700 which isn’t that bad if you factor in how long it took him to get turned around after his abysmal start. He murders lefties, isn’t a total black hole against right handers, and plays an excellent right field with a cannon throwing arm. Renfroe is one of the last players on this team who should be in danger of losing playing time.
 

cantor44

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And to be a little cruder, his OPS against righties is just under .700 which isn’t that bad if you factor in how long it took him to get turned around after his abysmal start. He murders lefties, isn’t a total black hole against right handers, and plays an excellent right field with a cannon throwing arm. Renfroe is one of the last players on this team who should be in danger of losing playing time.
I totally agree with this. If you subtract a horrible April, his total game has been as good as anyone on the team. Now, he seemed to regress to the mean a bit hitting wise right before the break. But that dude is a rock in right field, on a team with inconsistent fielding across the rest of the diamond (save Arroyo)....

BUT ... I think Duran's addition will be a good thing. How many more games can they possibly have starting Santana or Gonzalez? I mean really? And Verdugo is clearly nursing some shit, he needs more breaks. I think rotating a few guys, all of who can play, between a couple positions will only do the team good, keep legs fresh, etc.
 

geoduck no quahog

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What makes sense to me is Duran as the 4th OF with

Duran, Hernandez, Renfroe (Verdugo rests)
Duran, Verdugo, Renfroe (Hernandez or Arroyo rests)
Duran, Hernandez, Verdugo (Renfroe rests)

Because in what world does Duran replace one of the starters (unless Hernandez takes over 2B)?
 

BaseballJones

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I don't see them bringing Duran up only to sit on the bench and pinch hit or something. He's going to play. A lot. Unless he stinks, at which point he'll go back down.
 

JimD

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Hopefully, young Jarren gets a View to a Kill as the Sox continue their 2021 dominance over the Yankees this weekend.
 

joe dokes

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Hopefully, young Jarren gets a View to a Kill as the Sox continue their 2021 dominance over the Yankees this weekend.
I just hope he doesn't have hands of stone in the outfield.


What makes sense to me is Duran as the 4th OF with

Duran, Hernandez, Renfroe (Verdugo rests)
Duran, Verdugo, Renfroe (Hernandez or Arroyo rests)
Duran, Hernandez, Verdugo (Renfroe rests)

Because in what world does Duran replace one of the starters (unless Hernandez takes over 2B)?
My guess is that that's the theory right now. But these things usually take care of themselves. "In what world . . . . "? A world where Duran simply forces his way into the lineup as a regular by hitting, say, 350/400/500 and playing acceptable defense.
 

Saints Rest

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Whats the expectation for where in the outfield Duran would play best today? Or in the future? If it's LF, might it make sense for him to start his career in Yankee Stadium's, big but straightforward LF, as opposed to Fenway's idiosyncratic left?
 

NDame616

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I don't think the Sox want to put a speed guy in LF. Seems like a waste. I'm assuming they want him in CF
 

walt in maryland

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What makes sense to me is Duran as the 4th OF with

Duran, Hernandez, Renfroe (Verdugo rests)
Duran, Verdugo, Renfroe (Hernandez or Arroyo rests)
Duran, Hernandez, Verdugo (Renfroe rests)

Because in what world does Duran replace one of the starters (unless Hernandez takes over 2B)?
The Red Sox aren't promoting Duran to be their fourth OF. We should expect him to be the regular CF for as long as his performance warrants. Kike is likely going to be playing primarily 2B. It will be interesting to see how Cora uses Arroyo, but he'll figure something out.
 

nvalvo

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What makes sense to me is Duran as the 4th OF with

Duran, Hernandez, Renfroe (Verdugo rests)
Duran, Verdugo, Renfroe (Hernandez or Arroyo rests)
Duran, Hernandez, Verdugo (Renfroe rests)

Because in what world does Duran replace one of the starters (unless Hernandez takes over 2B)?
One scenario: a world in which Arroyo is about to get traded.

But it is certainly possible to play four outfielders relatively evenly. Most weeks they play six or seven games, and thus have 18 to 21 outfield starts to go around, and something like 100-120 plate appearances. You could aim for each player to get ~5 starts and about 25-30 PA weekly, keep everybody rested down the stretch, and with Hernandez' positional flexibility generally have good PH opportunities with the sitting outfielder.
 

E5 Yaz

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Speier: Mookie and JBJ also began their major league careers in Yankee Stadium
 

YTF

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I disagree. They cannot continue to have Chavis, Marwin and Santana getting meaningful ABs (I was at the game v. the A's where they batted consecutively and have not yet recovered). I think he's up for good unless he is catastrophically bad (i.e., even worse than Santana).

Two concerns:

(1) My impression is that Kike has been a plus-CFer, so I'm a little concerned what will happen to the pitching performance if Verdugo+Duran are significantly worse defensively than Kike+Verdugo.

(2) It sounds like the Sox assured Kike they would not be moving him around all season, so I'm curious to see how happy he'll be if they start bouncing him between 2b and the OF more frequently. Hopefully he considers it a non-issue as long as he's starting.
With Arroyo and Duran in Boston there is likely room for only one of the other three on the roster. Also the scenario I presented was aimed at Duran being "handed a starting job". I think he becomes part of a rotating platoon, just like several of his teammates have been all season.
 

E5 Yaz

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So ... what do we hope to get from Duran? If he starts slowly, how long do they give him to get going?
 

Ferm Sheller

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So ... what do we hope to get from Duran? If he starts slowly, how long do they give him to get going?
I assume you mean with regard to hitting, and so I think it depends on how well he's fielding and how the team is doing during that stretch. Pedroia and Naehring (I believe) started slowly at the plate, but they were good fielders and at least in Pedroia's case, the team was winning.

EDIT: Pedroia made debut in late 2006, not 2007, so the team's record/performance wasn't an issue. They finished far behind the Yankees.
 
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cantor44

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One scenario: a world in which Arroyo is about to get traded.

But it is certainly possible to play four outfielders relatively evenly. Most weeks they play six or seven games, and thus have 18 to 21 outfield starts to go around, and something like 100-120 plate appearances. You could aim for each player to get ~5 starts and about 25-30 PA weekly, keep everybody rested down the stretch, and with Hernandez' positional flexibility generally have good PH opportunities with the sitting outfielder.
To me the rotation would have to include Arroyo - so you would have 5 players sharing 4 positions. Very doable and probably advantageous. Folks get scuffed up anyway, and so the innings might naturally distribute themselves because of health. I mean, some folks are questioning who's at bats are going to go with Duran up ... It is always better to have one too many worthy starters than otherwise, obviously. Championship teams have depth.

Better to be rotating quality players than starting Danny Santana ...
 

Cesar Crespo

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To me the rotation would have to include Arroyo - so you would have 5 players sharing 4 positions. Very doable and probably advantageous. Folks get scuffed up anyway, and so the innings might naturally distribute themselves because of health. I mean, some folks are questioning who's at bats are going to go with Duran up ... It is always better to have one too many worthy starters than otherwise, obviously. Championship teams have depth.

Better to be rotating quality players than starting Danny Santana ...
Unless it causes said players to gripe about playing time.
 

cantor44

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Unless it causes said players to gripe about playing time.
I just don' think any of those players has the status to gripe about playing time on a first place storied franchise team and has won recent WS including under the current manager. All of those guys - Duran, Kike, Renfroe, Hernandez, Arroyo - before now were either not in the majors, or part time players. If they all get, essentially, 80% playing time and the team is winning, ain't nobody gonna complain. I mean, maybe I'm underestimating the narcissism of pro athletes, but I just don't think that would be an issue with this particular group.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I just don' think any of those players has the status to gripe about playing time on a first place storied franchise team and has won recent WS including under the current manager. All of those guys - Duran, Kike, Renfroe, Hernandez, Arroyo - before now were either not in the majors, or part time players. If they all get, essentially, 80% playing time and the team is winning, ain't nobody gonna complain. I mean, maybe I'm underestimating the narcissism of pro athletes, but I just don't think that would be an issue with this particular group.
And Jay Payton did? Chances are it won't be an issue, but it's something to keep in mind.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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And Jay Payton did? Chances are it won't be an issue, but it's something to keep in mind.
First name I thought of as well. Of course there are undoubtedly countless players who have also done it over the years less publicly. Having some perceived "status" to make griping about playing time okay really isn't a thing. Professional athletes all have huge egos and don't like to lose playing time. Cora will probably go with a rotation that is best for the team, both on the field, and in the clubhouse.
 

nvalvo

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To me the rotation would have to include Arroyo - so you would have 5 players sharing 4 positions. Very doable and probably advantageous. Folks get scuffed up anyway, and so the innings might naturally distribute themselves because of health. I mean, some folks are questioning who's at bats are going to go with Duran up ... It is always better to have one too many worthy starters than otherwise, obviously. Championship teams have depth.

Better to be rotating quality players than starting Danny Santana ...
I agree. I should have been clearer that I was imagining multiple different scenarios. It's the scenarios where Arroyo remains at 2B that we need to rotate the outfielders.

In the other scenario we're trading (let's say) Arroyo and a decent prospect or two who will require 40-man rostering (Jiminez? Groome? — no need to quibble about details, but something in that range) to (let's say) the Pittsburgh Pirates for (let's say) Richard Rodriguez, the dred locked Dominican relief pitcher who's been closing games for them (Arb1). I *think* that's a plausible trade.

That thickens the bullpen, allows us to start Kiké at 2B, and gives us a normal complement of outfielders. We probably call up Arauz to take Arroyo's spot on the 26. The Pirates can play Arroyo at SS until Oneil Cruz is ready ~2023.
 

JM3

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Yes, I was riffing off of Reggie's mention of Loverboy.
The only thing I have learned from Loverboy is that pig & elephant DNA just won't splice.

Looking forward to seeing what Duran can do. No puns. Just cautious optimism.
 

jmcc5400

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No worries. It's hard to keep up with the bad puns in this punfest -- I'll be glad When It's Over. (And on that front, who knows? This Could be the Night.)
This thread really is Taylor-Taylor-Taylor made for these puns, though.