Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

bigq

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If you were Wyc what would you do? Making a snap decision when emotions are running high is generally not a good course of action and they still have to play G4 however trying to put myself in his shoes I can only imagine how embarrassed and frustrated he must be. I would guess he takes some time to cool off, reflect and take the emotion out of the decision of what to do in the off-season. Barring a miraculous comeback it seems that some level of change with the coach and/or roster is coming.
 

lovegtm

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If you were Wyc what would you do? Making a snap decision when emotions are running high is generally not a good course of action and they still have to play G4 however trying to put myself in his shoes I can only imagine how embarrassed and frustrated he must be. I would guess he takes some time to cool off, reflect and take the emotion out of the decision of what to do in the off-season. Barring a miraculous comeback it seems that some level of change with the coach and/or roster is coming.
I think they'll take a step back, cool off, and realize that they have a top-5 player and another very good one. Offering JB the supermax is a no-brainer. You trade him if he refuses. If he re-signs, his cap number for 2023-24 is still low, so you play that out, and then evaluate in the summer of 2024.

With Mazzulla, they have to decide whether he's just the wrong guy, or whether he needs a real coaching staff. I lean towards firing, but I have decent confidence in Brad to evaluate this.

For everything else....it's tough. I think you avoid hasty decisions, but commit internally to significant overhauls based on what happens in the market.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I have no doubt, having been in Joe's position over a number of seasons, that Brad is the right guy to decide whether this is simply a rookie coach who will get his bearings as a HC or if Joe needs a lot more seasoning as an assistant before re-taking this role. If Joe is out right after the Finals, that will tell me Wyc and Brad saw it from the same perspective.
 

NomarsFool

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The kind of funny thing is, CJM's story is a little bit similar to Spoelstra's. Spoelstra was the video analysis guy, and it seems like that was CJM's role on the C's staff as well.
 

lovegtm

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The kind of funny thing is, CJM's story is a little bit similar to Spoelstra's. Spoelstra was the video analysis guy, and it seems like that was CJM's role on the C's staff as well.
Spoelstra also had a pretty bad Finals loss against Dallas (Dallas was good, but not as good). That was about 4 years into his career already.
 

Senator Donut

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If you were Wyc what would you do? Making a snap decision when emotions are running high is generally not a good course of action and they still have to play G4 however trying to put myself in his shoes I can only imagine how embarrassed and frustrated he must be. I would guess he takes some time to cool off, reflect and take the emotion out of the decision of what to do in the off-season. Barring a miraculous comeback it seems that some level of change with the coach and/or roster is coming.
I think if you’re Wyc and you’re paying a big tax bill every year from now until you blow it up, then you have to make sure the best possible coach is hired in order to contend for NBA championships. I have a hard time thinking, especially considering the names available, Joe Mazzulla is the best available coach at maximizing the Celtics’s championship probability. That has to be the mindset when selecting a coach. I don’t think it’s recentism or heat of the moment to agree with that.
 

NomarsFool

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Deciding that the defense needs an overhaul and hiring Nurse to do that seems like a very easy choice to defend. Not saying it's the right choice, nor that it's the wrong one, but it's one of those decisions that would play well with the fans and the media.
 

tims4wins

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I think if you’re Wyc and you’re paying a big tax bill every year from now until you blow it up, then you have to make sure the best possible coach is hired in order to contend for NBA championships. I have a hard time thinking, especially considering the names available, Joe Mazzulla is the best available coach at maximizing the Celtics’s championship probability. That has to be the mindset when selecting a coach. I don’t think it’s recentism or heat of the moment to agree with that.
This is well put. You can't be "wasting" a year of this window with an experimental HC. Obviously the circumstances were unique this season.

That said, do we think that Wyc / Brad are ok with "only" changing out the HC and then doing a bit of roster-reshuffling (i.e., JT, JB, MS, Al, TimeLord, Brogdon all "safe" and it's really just the 7th spot and beyond) and hoping that is enough to get over the hump? It's a really tough situation. You don't want to overreact and blow up a perennial contender only to end up in the 5th-8th seed range for the next 4 years, but switching out the coach and spare parts and ending up in the same situation next year would suck too.

I think I lean toward not blowing it up and giving it one more shot with a new coach, but if they do decide to move MS and/or JB and/or TL, I'd understand and be on board with that as well.
 

bigq

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I think they'll take a step back, cool off, and realize that they have a top-5 player and another very good one. Offering JB the supermax is a no-brainer. You trade him if he refuses. If he re-signs, his cap number for 2023-24 is still low, so you play that out, and then evaluate in the summer of 2024.

With Mazzulla, they have to decide whether he's just the wrong guy, or whether he needs a real coaching staff. I lean towards firing, but I have decent confidence in Brad to evaluate this.

For everything else....it's tough. I think you avoid hasty decisions, but commit internally to significant overhauls based on what happens in the market.
Agree with all of your points. And to be fair, some changes were coming regardless of winning or losing this series. After the first three games of the ECF including last night's mess it is tempting to lean toward broad wholesale changes however things are hardly bleak for the future of this team.

They have to offer JB the supermax and trade him if he declines it.

Either Mazzulla is going to get some help from new assistants or he is going to be sent packing.

Meanwhile PBS will be looking for opportunities to upgrade the roster. He has a great eye for team building and I am sure will explore a variety of trade offers. Building around the Jays (assuming Brown signs a supermax) is still the right approach in my view.
 

CapeCodYaz

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Agree with all of your points. And to be fair, some changes were coming regardless of winning or losing this series. After the first three games of the ECF including last night's mess it is tempting to lean toward broad wholesale changes however things are hardly bleak for the future of this team.

They have to offer JB the supermax and trade him if he declines it.

Either Mazzulla is going to get some help from new assistants or he is going to be sent packing.

Meanwhile PBS will be looking for opportunities to upgrade the roster. He has a great eye for team building and I am sure will explore a variety of trade offers. Building around the Jays (assuming Brown signs a supermax) is still the right approach in my view.
sign JB, not sure on coach and have White as real starting and get a good young center--drop Grif since he doesn't play anyways--does Gallianri change anything?
 

sezwho

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Fuck you Ime. You are rich powerful and attractive enough for Nia, but you can’t stop banging your coworkers? Just swipe left. Get some help before you wreck more relationships, marriages and billion dollar operations. Fucking fuck.

CBS isn’t firing his rookie coach, but barring a miracle turn around if you can get a proper coach (Nurse or Thibs style or who will make them more focused of him then worried about choking) then you have to. If not get the best vet assistant and some ex player tough guy to the bench asap. Windows close too fast.

For those who see a continuous sea of performance independent of coaching, I do not. I think Ime had them commit to defense identity last year, so whether they were shooting lights out clutch maybe matters less. I happen to think he would have further had them commit to an offensive identity this year.

Instead, the defensive identity has regressed to the point of invisibility and the offensive schemes are only enhanced to the extent the Js are somewhat individually more developed athletically.
 

NomarsFool

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BTW, what happens when Houston visits Boston? Coaches aren't announced, are they? Does Ime get booed? Do the Celtics players defend him (almost certainly "yes")?
 

tbb345

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They didn’t make a single hire outside of the organization on this coaching staff. So they effectively didn’t replace any of them
 

Ale Xander

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They didn’t make a single hire outside of the organization on this coaching staff. So they effectively didn’t replace any of them
In that case, you have to get rid of PBS and possibly the entire basketball operations staff.

Rebuild around Tatum. (I'm ok with keeping Hauser, White, PP, and/or Kornet if it makes sense but they can go too)
 

lexrageorge

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In that case, you have to get rid of PBS and possibly the entire basketball operations staff.

Rebuild around Tatum. (I'm ok with keeping Hauser, White, PP, and/or Kornet if it makes sense but they can go too)
I think they were still hamstrung by the timing of Ime's exit and the availability of outside coaching talent willing to join Mazzulla's staff. You don't usually see teams bring on a top assistant mid-season. There will be many more names available this offseason to fill out the staff from the outside if Stevens should go down that route.

Now, if Stevens attempts run back the same exact coaching staff with no changes or additions from outside, then he should indeed be fired.
 

kazuneko

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So the big question of the off-season is whether or not JB signs on to the super-max. If he does, as I understand it, the Cs can’t trade him for a year. If doesn’t he will almost certainly be traded.
For those wanting JB jettisoned that appears to be the only way it happens, and that’s not at all a position that anyone should want the Cs to be in (i.e being forced to trade a disgruntled star with one year left on his deal).
Assuming JB does opt-in to the super-max, and JT follows suit next offseason, the core of this team, built around the two Js is set through the two stars peak years. This is an enviable position for the Cs to be in, but it has its limitations, most notably the financial constraints that will come with spending 70% of the salary cap on two players.
One advantage of having both of their stars locked up is that the Cs should be able to select a new coach without having to be too concerned about how their stars might react ( as Mazzulla appears to be well liked). Nick Nurse with his creative defensive scheming and hard-nosed style would appear to be the number 1 target, but he will also get interviews with the 76ers, Bucks and Suns. Monty Williams is another strong candidate but with a very different style. Either way it would be shocking if the Cs don’t move in a new direction at head coach. Mazzulla appears to deserve most of the criticism he’s received and it will only get louder if he’s retained. And relationship with the media -already pretty tense - will only get worse as one pundit after another calls for his dismissal.
 

JCizzle

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Oomph. When you've even lost Chad...

I will never know a fraction of the basketball that Mazzula knows. But at a basic level something is off to me when the Heat are able to get any mismatch they want at any time - see, Jimmy with half the court to himself against Grant in Game 2, while the Celtics are unable to punish guys like Robinson that are supposed to be unplayable due to their defense. It just doesn't add up. It should be hunting season with some of the lineup combinations the Heat are using.
 

tbb345

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Oomph. When you've even lost Chad...

I will never know a fraction of the basketball that Mazzula knows. But at a basic level something is off to me when the Heat are able to get any mismatch they want at any time - see, Jimmy with half the court to himself against Grant in Game 2, while the Celtics are unable to punish guys like Robinson that are supposed to be unplayable due to their defense. It just doesn't add up. It should be hunting season with some of the lineup combinations the Heat are using.
I think he’s lost just about everyone. The only person even close to the Celtics that is actually sticking up for him is the Barstool Sports Celtics guy.
some people are kind of sticking up for him in the sense that they are saying jts on the players to execute…but even those people acknowledge that this series has been really bad
 

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jon abbey

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I will never know a fraction of the basketball that Mazzula knows. But at a basic level something is off to me when the Heat are able to get any mismatch they want at any time - see, Jimmy with half the court to himself against Grant in Game 2, while the Celtics are unable to punish guys like Robinson that are supposed to be unplayable due to their defense. It just doesn't add up. It should be hunting season with some of the lineup combinations the Heat are using.
Some of this is on Mazzula, but some of it is on Spoelstra, I've honestly never been so impressed with a NBA coach as I have with him this postseason. Thibodeau made Bickerstaff look silly in the first round, the Cavs are a very talented team but the Knicks destroyed them. Then NY got to MIA and the tables were completely turned, everything Thibs tried was countered beautifully, and only Brunson's insane shotmaking kept NY from being swept.
 

chilidawg

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How is this damning? They lost their defensive identity, I think that has been obvious for months. Brogdon doesn't call out the coach for that.

This team has come up short in the playoffs 3 straight years under 3 different coaches. Ime did seem most successful at getting them closer to their potential, but Joe got this team at least to the ECF. I don't know what the players really think. If Joe has truly lost the team then maybe he has to go. If not then maybe a roster shake up is due. This team under performing is not a new feature though.
 

lovegtm

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The Heat also shot 30% from 3 instead of 48%.
The Celtics have been bad, but they also to be fair have run into an insane shooting heater
48% is unsustainable, but the Celtics aren't exactly making those shots hard. NYK competed a lot harder on the defensive end imo, and Butler was also a lot more limited, which made it harder to get quality looks.
 

Cellar-Door

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48% is unsustainable, but the Celtics aren't exactly making those shots hard. NYK competed a lot harder on the defensive end imo, and Butler was also a lot more limited, which made it harder to get quality looks.
Overall the thing with this series is that the Celtics are both playing poorly, AND MIA is red hot from 3. NYK were a trashfire on offense, decent on defense, but also MIA undershot what you would expect based on looks.

This series has been a perfect storm... Heat wildly overshooting expectations (even with open 3s), Celtics wildly undershooting expectations (they've also had a lot of open 3s). The talent gap is real enough that maybe you overcome that, but the Celtics have let the poor shooting (and good shooting by Miami) get in their heads, they're making simple mistakes, playing lazy on D, (yes also the coaching mismatch), it's a big snowball.
 

The Social Chair

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How is this damning? They lost their defensive identity, I think that has been obvious for months. Brogdon doesn't call out the coach for that.

This team has come up short in the playoffs 3 straight years under 3 different coaches. Ime did seem most successful at getting them closer to their potential, but Joe got this team at least to the ECF. I don't know what the players really think. If Joe has truly lost the team then maybe he has to go. If not then maybe a roster shake up is due. This team under performing is not a new feature though.
The 2020-21 team was the 7th seed. They started Romeo Langford, Evan Fournier, and Tristan Thompson in the playoffs.

The only team to underachieve post-Kyrie is coached by Mazzula.
 

8slim

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I have a hunch that the players are slowly turning on Mazzulla because it takes them off the hook. They say all the bland, right things to the media, but I suspect behind closed doors they’re gonna want Joe gone.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think Joe might eventually be a good or very good NBA coach, but he came into the job in surprise fashion, with little prep time, with a reduced coaching staff, and without the experience of a typical first time NBA coach. And because of that I suspect he is unwilling/unable to hold the players accountable. I don't think there are any character issues on the team, but I think Ime could and did have the attention of the players in a way that Mazzulla never has, because that sort of thing has to be earned and Mazzulla simply hasn't earned it.

In retrospect, Stevens probably should have given the interim tag to Stoudamire.
 

lovegtm

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I think Joe might eventually be a good or very good NBA coach, but he came into the job in surprise fashion, with little prep time, with a reduced coaching staff, and without the experience of a typical first time NBA coach. And because of that I suspect he is unwilling/unable to hold the players accountable. I don't think there are any character issues on the team, but I think Ime could and did have the attention of the players in a way that Mazzulla never has, because that sort of thing has to be earned and Mazzulla simply hasn't earned it.

In retrospect, Stevens probably should have given the interim tag to Stoudamire.
They could have done some things differently in hindsight, but Ime really, really fucked them.

I know it's not realistic, because of the need to protect the victim, but it sucks that they couldn't say what happened and destroy his reputation. Also would have helped to clear the air with players on the team.
 

benhogan

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They could have done some things differently in hindsight, but Ime really, really fucked them.

I know it's not realistic, because of the need to protect the victim, but it sucks that they couldn't say what happened and destroy his reputation. Also would have helped to clear the air with players on the team.
Scorched Earth, Woj/Shams-style, would have been really easy, but Brad doesn't leak. Which is the right, long-term approach. I also believe IME had a serious PR effort in place throughout, which worked about as well as possible for him. ESPN talking heads carried some serious water.

I know it's a PLAYERS LEAGUE, but there is a little too much kowtowing toward a few players. They may find themselves in more trade talks this summer.
 

Myt1

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I don’t see how you can keep Smart after he publicly knifed his coach last round and then the players quit in one of the worst displays of it in recent memory last game. The “quit on their coach” narrative is trite when applied to professional athletes who make their living competing against their opponents. Have an ounce of pride. If Smart truly is the source of this team’s emotional identity and fire, they need a new one.

The Celtics spun their wheels at the end of Stevens’s tenure, to the point that he brought in an ex-player at their request and moved up himself. Then they narrowly escaped Miami only to lose to a “worse” team in the finals with Udoka last year, making the same sorts of mistakes with their superstars disappearing for long stretches. And now this. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.