Jimmy G to 49ers for 2nd round pick

dcmissle

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A kick start to their rebuild.
If Jimmy G is playing like the 49ers hope and expect, we’re not getting him back. And he wouldn’t want to come back because the 49ers and Rams will be competing for SB berths. And the arrangement described is not enforceable. In fact, it’s illegal.

Brave new world for us — we’re again in the QB business. Top of the next draft will be interesting.
 

TheoShmeo

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A kick start to their rebuild.
I’m assuming this conspiracy theory is somewhat tongue in cheek.

On the side that it was even a little bit serious, my guess is that if Jimmy was inclined to come back one day, based on winks and nods or not, part or the reason would be the strength of his relationship with Belichick. The problem is that I would assume that Bill will be ready to retire when Tom is gone and Jimmy would have the contractual freedom to return.

And I would love to be wrong about that. All of that.
 

heavyde050

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Brady didn't really come into his prime as a passer until his 4th year as a starter and 5th year in the league. He was good before then, and has always been good with taking care of the ball and not making rash decisions, but there was a lot of developing he had to do.

Local sports media will say whatever serves them best at any given moment. Hoping they won't over-hype something is kinda hoping in vain.
Very true about the local media.
 

leetinsley38

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I’m assuming this conspiracy theory is somewhat tongue in cheek.

On the side that it was even a little bit serious, my guess is that if Jimmy was inclined to come back one day, based on winks and nods or not, part or the reason would be the strength of his relationship with Belichick. The problem is that I would assume that Bill will be ready to retire when Tom is gone and Jimmy would have the contractual freedom to return.

And I would love to be wrong about that. All of that.
This exact theory was brought up by Tim Fox, the radio color guy for the Niners (their Zolak). He literally said his “greatest fear” was this turns into a Cousins franchise situation, they can’t get him signed, then he forces his way back to NE when Brady is done. He said it on the KNBR radio am show a week ago. May just be paranoia but it’s at least in the back of their minds. JG is gonna have a lot of leverage.
 

heavyde050

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I disagree, in 2002 (year 3) he was a different QB than in 2001. They asked him to throw it over 600 times that year, including like 20 in a row in the season opener against the Steelers. Then he was pretty much the same QB to me from 2002-2006 until the Moss/Welker acquisitions, and everything changed after that.

Edit: that's not to say he wasn't improving every year from 2002 to 2006, he clearly was. But the huge jump for Brady I think occurred between years 2 and 3.
I am pretty sure he led the league in TD passes in 2002 though the league was much less pass happy back then.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I still can't believe BB only got a 2nd rounder for him. You'd think he'd try - and one assumes he did - to get, say, a conditional pick to go along with it. If Jimmy signs w 49ers and they win 8 or more in 2018, N.E. gets an additional 2nd rounder or something in that world. I know, BB is some master negotiator or whatever, but the trade was made in ten minutes and SF seemed surprised and thrilled with the deal. Annoying.
Suggestion: Stop being annoyed. Here Bill got a top of the 2nd round pick next year for a backup with little track record and some injury concerns. If the Patriots kept JG and failed to resign him, you'd be even more annoyed that they let him leave for a compensation pick from who knows what team- maybe an AFC contender- and there were no reports out there that anyone was giving up more than what they got. Be happy that the Patriots traded a good QB but still have the GOAT under center.
 

heavyde050

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If Jimmy G is playing like the 49ers hope and expect, we’re not getting him back. And he wouldn’t want to come back because the 49ers and Rams will be competing for SB berths. And the arrangement described is not enforceable. In fact, it’s illegal.

Brave new world for us — we’re again in the QB business. Top of the next draft will be interesting.
When are the 49ers going to be competing for SB berths? Is this a post-Brady world?
I mean the 49ers are on a nice little winning streak but they seem pretty far from SB contenders at the moment.
 

scott bankheadcase

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One problem with the conspiracy theory is that Jimmy G wants to get paid. The 49ers, including franchise tags for leverage, have the best chance to give him what he wants. They have an enormous amount of cap space this year and into the future. Jimmy G isn't married to a supermodel and willing to take less than he's worth because of it. The Niners are going to lock him up for multiple years and build around him.

He's going to get paid and be a franchise QB on one of the more iconic franchises in the NFL, playing in a complex and offensive-minded system for a young offensive minded coach.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think Pats knew what they had and waited as long as was possible to see if the situation would change. Would Brady decline/get hurt/quit? Would Jimmy G decide to take a sure-thing contract for well under the franchise tag? Would someone make a godfather offer?

None of those occurred, so they took the best offer at the last possible time to get value for him. They decided not to deal him around the draft because any of above could have occurred, and they decided to maximize their window to see if any did. I don't know if that was the right decision (we'd need to know what was actually possible around draft to really assess) but it is certainly defensible in my mind.
 

Al Zarilla

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I have watched all his games living out here in the Bay Area. He is a really good young QB, but he isn't and won't ever be Brady.
It also isn't doing any good for the Bay Area media to keep bringing up Montana.
Jimmy is going to be a good one and will probably have them in the playoffs in a few seasons, but all this all-time talk and winning the lottery talk should probably slow down.
I am eager to see how he plays against Jacksonville.
There's only one Brady, but for another comp/ceiling, how about Russell Wilson? JG looks very quick and elusive, but he hasn't taken off and scrambled much yet, even though he looks capable of it. Instead, he keeps moving in or out of the pocket until he finds a receiver, or throws it away. Oh noes if we get another Fran Tarkenton comp though.
 
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dcmissle

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When are the 49ers going to be competing for SB berths? Is this a post-Brady world?
I mean the 49ers are on a nice little winning streak but they seem pretty far from SB contenders at the moment.
What would you have said about the Rams this time last year — beyond that Jared Goff is a bust?

If the 49ers have the QB piece solved, everything else is manageable within a relatively short time frame. I think Lynch and Shanahan are likely to do just fine.
 

heavyde050

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What would you have said about the Rams this time last year — beyond that Jared Goff is a bust?

If the 49ers have the QB piece solved, everything else is manageable within a relatively short time frame. I think Lynch and Shanahan are likely to do just fine.
Just fine is much different than SB contender.
The Rams also had Gurley and Donald, but your overall point is valid that a lot can change from year to year.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Suggestion: Stop being annoyed. Here Bill got a top of the 2nd round pick next year for a backup with little track record and some injury concerns. If the Patriots kept JG and failed to resign him, you'd be even more annoyed that they let him leave for a compensation pick from who knows what team- maybe an AFC contender- and there were no reports out there that anyone was giving up more than what they got. Be happy that the Patriots traded a good QB but still have the GOAT under center.
Not to be overly pedantic, as I agree with your point, but comp picks don’t come directly from teams, they are just wedged in between round of the draft. It’s not like MLB.
 

dcmissle

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Just fine is much different than SB contender.
The Rams also had Gurley and Donald, but your overall point is valid that a lot can change from year to year.
And Head Coach to Head Coach.

McVay is brilliant. I do not believe we will be hearing from Jeff Fisher again. Jury still out on Shanahan.
 

JCizzle

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There's only one Brady, but for another comp/ceiling, how about Russell Wilson? JG looks very quick and elusive, but he hasn't taken off and scrambled much yet, even though he looks capable of it. Instead, he keeps moving in or out of the packet until he finds a receiver, or throws it away. Oh noes if we get another Fran Tarkenton comp though.
I don't think he's nearly as fast as Russ - he's been chased down a number of times by dlinemen. I've actually been surprised by how slow he seems to be. Kirk Cousins in terms of mobility in my opinion.

He actually made Levi's feel like a real football stadium according to the few players still left from the Niners recent playoff success, which is an accomplishment by itself. They are going to pay him. To a lot of fans (myself included) the culture of the franchise is good quarterback play, it puts butts in seats and keeps people talking.
 
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scott bankheadcase

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I don't think he's nearly as fast as Russ - he's been chased down a number of times by dlinemen. I've actually been surprised by how slow he seems to be. Kirk Cousins in terms of mobility in my opinion.
I think Cousins is a decent comp, but from watching all his starts, his mobility reminds me of early Roethlisberger -- again on mobility. His ability to escape a rush in a pocket or behind the line is excellent, always keeping his eyes downfield for a throw, but he can't turn it upfield and cause havoc with his legs like Wilson.
 

dcdrew10

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Jimmy G definitely learned a lot playing behind Brady and working with Belichick and McDaniels. PFT can be a bit Patriots fanboy at times, but they're not wrong. It's not a realistic expectation for a high pick to sit a long time, but it certainly helped Rogers and seems to be on Jimmy's side too. 49ers fans/media might have some unrealistic expectations, but Jimmy is lightyears ahead of what they have had on the field for a while. He might not be a top-5 all time NFL QB, but if he can be a top 5 all-time 49ers QB the 49ers will be sitting pretty.

Edit: or what NoThumb posted.
 
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lexrageorge

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When are the 49ers going to be competing for SB berths? Is this a post-Brady world?
I mean the 49ers are on a nice little winning streak but they seem pretty far from SB contenders at the moment.
Take a look at that team that won 5 games last year with their new coach, whose tenure was an unmitigated disaster in his last go around. They've got a declining but overpaid (and possibly overrated) QB, and backing him up is a career second stringer and a 6th round draft choice that noone's ever heard of and who looked awful throwing 3 passes in garbage time last season. Their local media expert claims they bombed their first 2 picks in the draft, and because they were snug against the salary cap, their big free agent pickup was a non-descript linebacker named Frable (or something or other) who was cast off from one of the conference's premier teams.

Paraphrasing a likely SoSH post from the late spring of 2001....
 

Al Zarilla

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What would you have said about the Rams this time last year — beyond that Jared Goff is a bust?

If the 49ers have the QB piece solved, everything else is manageable within a relatively short time frame. I think Lynch and Shanahan are likely to do just fine.
As long as Jed York doesn’t fuck it up. Actually, he would have to be the stone cold worst owner of all time to do that with what looks like very good GM/ Coach/Quarterback plus cap room in place. The days of York having to break up a Baalke fighting with a Harbaugh won’t ever happen for the foreseeable, and Paraag Marathe seems to be back to doing what he’s good at.
 

Al Zarilla

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I don't think he's nearly as fast as Russ - he's been chased down a number of times by dlinemen. I've actually been surprised by how slow he seems to be. Kirk Cousins in terms of mobility in my opinion.

He actually made Levi's feel like a real football stadium according to the few players still left from the Niners recent playoff success, which is an accomplishment by itself. They are going to pay him. To a lot of fans (myself included) the culture of the franchise is good quarterback play, it puts butts in seats and keeps people talking.
So, maybe he’s quick and elusive moving around in the pocket and along the line of scrimmage, but not fast. I don’t know. The times he’s gotten tackled, I remember it more as him getting blind sided rather than run down. A thing to keep an eye on. His combine 40 yard dash time was 4.97 though, bearing out what you say.

There is one local writer/analyst I’ve heard that doesn’t have him as the second coming yet: Ray Ratto. The thing he wants to see is Jimmy finishing more drives with touchdowns. OTOH, Ratto hates to give praise to anyone.
 

tims4wins

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Are we able to finally do the math on this one? I read somewhere that JoeJuan Williams, Cajuste, Stidham, and the Lions 2020 4th rounder can all be linked back to the trade. The Pats traded subsequent picks so many times it is pretty dizzying, I don't have the energy to do it, but would be curious.
 

SMU_Sox

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On mobile but The Athletic has it behind a pay wall, Jeff Howe I think or Nick Underhill are the writers. I love the Athletic. Think it is a fantastic read.
 

Joe Sixpack

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Are we able to finally do the math on this one? I read somewhere that JoeJuan Williams, Cajuste, Stidham, and the Lions 2020 4th rounder can all be linked back to the trade. The Pats traded subsequent picks so many times it is pretty dizzying, I don't have the energy to do it, but would be curious.
Excerpt from The Athletic article (pay wall):

Here’s the quick version. The Patriots traded Garoppolo, No. 63 in 2018 and Nos. 97, 162, 205 and 239 in 2019 for Dawson, Sam, Williams, Harris, Cajuste, Stidham, Cowart and a 2020 fourth-round pick.
https://theathletic.com/950113/2019/04/27/the-jimmy-garoppolo-trade-tree-keeps-sprouting-branches-for-patriots/
 

tims4wins

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That’s crazy yo.

I bet BB trades the 2020 pick and part of that trade is to pick up another pick in 2021 and keep rolling it over so that we can never get a final tally. Or so that the entire 53 man roster can be traced back to the trade.
 

BigSoxFan

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That’s crazy yo.

I bet BB trades the 2020 pick and part of that trade is to pick up another pick in 2021 and keep rolling it over so that we can never get a final tally. Or so that the entire 53 man roster can be traced back to the trade.
I wish there were an online tool that could do that for every trade. Actually, I don’t because I would never leave my house ever again.
 

Super Nomario

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I wish there were an online tool that could do that for every trade. Actually, I don’t because I would never leave my house ever again.
I was recently looking and realized the Patriots traded a 2009 3rd for a 2009 7th and a 2010 2nd. The 2009 7th became Edelman and the 2010 2nd effectively became Gronk (the Pats had to give up a 6th to move up two spots). So they effectively got Edelman and Gronk in the same trade. It's even more complicated than that because they had originally gotten that third as part of trading back with the Packers.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I wish there were an online tool that could do that for every trade. Actually, I don’t because I would never leave my house ever again.
The Cam Neely trade tree is probably the best of these that I’ve ever heard of in any sport.
 

singaporesoxfan

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I was recently looking and realized the Patriots traded a 2009 3rd for a 2009 7th and a 2010 2nd. The 2009 7th became Edelman and the 2010 2nd effectively became Gronk (the Pats had to give up a 6th to move up two spots). So they effectively got Edelman and Gronk in the same trade. It's even more complicated than that because they had originally gotten that third as part of trading back with the Packers.
The lineage of that trade is ridiculous.

The Pats had 1st round pick #23 as a result of Brady missing most of 2008.

That was traded to Baltimore for #26 and #162

#26 and #162 were in turn traded to Green Bay for a 2nd (#41, the Darius Butler pick), and two thirds (#73 and #83, the Brandon Tate pick)

#73 was then traded as you said to Jacksonville for a 2010 2nd and a 2009 7th (#232, the Edelman pick)

That 2010 2nd ended up becoming pick #44. The Pats traded that together with a 6th round pick (#190) to Oakland for pick #42. That was Rob Gronkowski

So in effect this is what the Patriots got for 2009 1st round pick #23 plus 2010 6th round pick #160: Julian Edelman, Rob Gronkowski, Darius Butler, Brandon Tate
 

vicirus

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I remember being upset about them trading back both times in that draft because of the two guys they could of had:

#23 Michael Oher
#26 Clay Matthews

Turned out ok in the end.
 

singaporesoxfan

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I remember being upset about them trading back both times in that draft because of the two guys they could of had:

#23 Michael Oher
#26 Clay Matthews

Turned out ok in the end.
Yup, what Baltimore and Green Bay got out of their picks wasn’t bad either. The Ravens got Michael Oher, and Green Bay got Clay Matthews and Jamon Meredith. Decent, even great value (in Matthews’ case) for late 1st round picks. Both teams won Super Bowls with their picks and I think they would be happy with their return. Belichick isn’t “winning” trades by fleecing the other guy.
 

RedOctober3829

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But then the text came in. Shanahan checked his phone: New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick was reaching out.

“It was like 5 in the morning,” Shanahan remembered. “And we had just got killed — I think by Philly. I thought he was just texting me to try to make me feel better. But he said, ‘Give me a call if you’ve got a second.’ And I gave him a call.”

And that moment signaled the dawn of a whole new and elevated 49ers quarterbacking era — you can draw a pretty straight line from this day to the 49ers’ current preparations to play Kansas City in Super Bowl 54 on Sunday — though Shanahan didn’t quite know it right away. First, he called Belichick, who quickly offered to trade Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo to the 49ers for a second-round pick.

Deal or no deal? Well, first Shanahan needed just a moment.

“He ran it by me,” Shanahan said. “I wasn’t ready for it. So it threw me off a little. But I was definitely excited. Said I had to talk to John. Hung up. Called John upstairs. He came right down. We talked for about 10 minutes. And we called back and said, ‘Yes.’”

Hold on a second. This was a little after 5 a.m. Not only were you arriving at the office at that insane time, but the GM was there, too?

“Yeah, John’s always there,” Shanahan said with a smile after his Tuesday news conference. “Once I got the text and called him back, I was like, ‘Wow, give me a second. I’ve gotta go up and talk to John and soak this in a little bit. And we’ll call you right back.’ There was a deadline. There were other people (Belichick was talking to). He asked us to hurry as fast as possible.”

It took Shanahan and Lynch about 10 minutes to fully process the whole thing, which seems fast, but they weren’t exactly starting from scratch on the concept of acquiring Garoppolo, then in the middle of his fourth season backing up Tom Brady. Shanahan and Lynch checked with Belichick about Garoppolo (and Brady, for that matter) during the NFL scouting combine several months earlier and were told the Patriots weren’t in QB trade mode.

But now, a day before the 2017 trade deadline, Belichick was telling the 49ers he was going to move Garoppolo, who was about to hit free agency, and it was going to happen soon.
The bolded part debunks the myth that Belichick wasn't talking to other teams when he traded Jimmy to SF.

https://theathletic.com/1560552/2020/01/28/kawakami-the-inside-story-of-the-day-the-49ers-traded-for-jimmy-garoppolo/
 

InstaFace

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The pedant in me would point out that all Shanahan's story says is that Belichick said there were other teams involved. We still have yet to hear from any other team that they were in on it.

Tilts the presumption in favor, perhaps, but doesn't prove it.
 

lexrageorge

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The simplest explanation remains the most likely: the 49'ers had an asset Belichick wanted: a backup QB familiar with the Pats offense. A guy who could credibly fill in for a game or two should Brady need to miss a game or two.

Shanahan got the first call, but Belichick had other teams on speed dial in case the 49'ers weren't interested.
 

axx

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Still think they should have gotten more for him, although trading was the right move.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Jimmy G to the Browns instead of the 49ers is one of the best recent sports "what ifs" (although I have no doubt the Browns still would have sucked, because they are the Browns).
 
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That BB didn’t ask for a 2nd AND GEORGE KITTLE (with an eye toward Gronk’s trajectory) or something else (beyond Brian freaking Hoyer) is frustrating. I can’t see SF turning that down, given who Kittle was back THEN, not now.
 

Marciano490

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That BB didn’t ask for a 2nd AND GEORGE KITTLE (with an eye toward Gronk’s trajectory) or something else (beyond Brian freaking Hoyer) is frustrating. I can’t see SF turning that down, given who Kittle was back THEN, not now.
It’s a beautiful what if; but I imagine if Bill had seen Kittle as a Gronk replacement, he would’ve drafted him before the 5th round.

Still, imagine the Pats offense with two elite TEs. We would’ve killed everyone.