Jerry Jones Sued For Sexual Assault

PBDWake

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HomeRunBaker said:
Yup and drug dealers have bullets fired at them at a higher rate than accountants. You people have no idea how these drug dealers have been treated by police when they report this crime at the local station. It's due to this prejudice that more drug dealers aren't reporting these crimes.

You are either ignorant or deliberately obtuse to the realities of how drug dealers are brutalized.

Criminal behavior = Criminal behavior. Funny how they are treated the same by authorities.
I'm quoting this because... wow. I mean, I don't even begin to know how to respond to this. I'm just going to leave the argument because the only thing this made patently clear is that you will never, ever get it.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Thieving Venison said:
 
Does Jones lose an equal amount of credibility for hiring an alleged prostitute?
He's old and has tons of money. Hiring a prostitute would be a normal thing to do. My only question is, if he hired them, couldn't he do better? Like, seriously?  So I severely doubt he hired them. 
 
Whether he raped someone or not, we don't know, and he should be given the full weight of the law if he did, obviously.  But at first glance, is that he just used the wrong head.
 

IdiotKicker

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soxfan121 said:
 
Aw, that's no fun. Like the great philosopher Shelterdog once said: 
 
"Well I've got a keyboard and a SoSH username, so drawing half-assed conclusions based on my reading of the facts in the article is more or less my birthright."
 
In that case, I believe Jerry Jones was responsible for the killing of Jesus, the plague, slavery, the Holocaust, and Dane Cook.
 

FL4WL3SS

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WayBackVazquez said:
You can't imagine why an alleged former prostitute might (a) have had some negative experiences with police, and perhaps some level of mistrust there; (b) be apprehensive about facing that situation and levying charges against one of the most powerful men in the state? You may want to read a bit about some of the experiences women describe at police stations when reporting rape. And then multiply it when you consider the prevalence of view like HRB's.

Beyond that, we have no idea whether she went to the police or not.
I never said I couldn't imagine it. I asked a question of why she wouldn't go to the cops first before filing a lawsuit and that it seemed odd to me. It was an honest question that several people are attempting to answer in this thread, which make sense.
 

amarshal2

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HomeRunBaker said:
Yup and drug dealers have bullets fired at them at a higher rate than accountants. You people have no idea how these drug dealers have been treated by police when they report this crime at the local station. It's due to this prejudice that more drug dealers aren't reporting these crimes.

You are either ignorant or deliberately obtuse to the realities of how drug dealers are brutalized.

Criminal behavior = Criminal behavior. Funny how they are treated the same by authorities.
 
You really need to stop.  You are so very wrong and you're just making it worse.
 

BoredViewer

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Some of the replies in this thread....
 
Re: the perpetually raped prostitutes.  Sure - maybe locked in a shady brothel in Thailand... but probably not this (then) 22 yr old that parties with billionaire NFL owners and maintained a social media presence.
 
Maybe there is a "Ray Rice"  video out there that could change all of our minds, but to act like those of us that - based on what we know - are taking this claim with a very healthy dose of skepticism are anything but utterly rationale... is weird.  
 

amarshal2

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BoredViewer said:
Some of the replies in this thread....
 
Re: the perpetually raped prostitutes.  Sure - maybe locked in a shady brothel in Thailand... but probably not this (then) 22 yr old that parties with billionaire NFL owners and maintained a social media presence.
 
Maybe there is a "Ray Rice"  video out there that could change all of our minds, but to act like those of us that - based on what we know - are taking this claim with a very healthy dose of skepticism are anything but utterly rationale... is weird.  
 
Skepticism is fine.  I don't think anybody faults skepticism.  I'm skeptical too.  But some people are posting as though they are certain of the facts and that is obviously not true.
 
edit: As to your claim that US prostitutes probably aren't frequently raped.  Show you reasoning or show your sources.  It's pretty obvious to most that prostitutes are highly susceptible to rape on a frequent basis.
 

HomeRunBaker

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amarshal2 said:
 
You really need to stop.  You are so very wrong and you're just making it worse.
Explain to me how one criminals accusation is to be taken more seriously than another criminals accusation regardless of the crime? It's the price a criminal pays.....they lose credibility and aren't taken serious for this very reason.

If your a criminal you better bring some concrete evidence with you as your word doesn't mean much.
 

amarshal2

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HomeRunBaker said:
Explain to me how one criminals accusation is to be taken more seriously than another criminals accusation regardless of the crime? It's the price a criminal pays.....they lose credibility and aren't taken serious for this very reason.

If your a criminal you better bring some concrete evidence with you as your word doesn't mean much.
 
I don't even understand what you're asking.  Which criminal?  The prostitute or the John?  
 
I think people are reacting to your subsequent posts through the lens of this post which reads as though you have made up your mind that the only possibility here is that she's lying for money.
 

HomeRunBaker said:
That poor girl/"victim." She looks traumatized in that pic.

Good god I hate our litigious country sometimes.

 
 

Judge Mental13

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HomeRunBaker said:
Explain to me how one criminals accusation is to be taken more seriously than another criminals accusation regardless of the crime?
 
Because......some crimes are a lot worse than others? 
 
Because.......sometimes criminals have crimes committed against them that are far worse than the crime they are committing?
 
Like, say you're late for work and you get pulled over for speeding, then while the cop is writing you a ticket some hobo comes out of the woods and rapes you over the hood of your car then runs back into the woods before the cop gets back, I'd imagine that despite the fact that you'd just been cited for speeding (a crime) that you would probably want the officer to investigate the savage side of the road ass-rape that just occurred to the best of his ability, wouldn't you?
 
Dec 10, 2012
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HomeRunBaker said:
Explain to me how one criminals accusation is to be taken more seriously than another criminals accusation regardless of the crime?
You can't be serious. Are you saying a person's history and depth of criminality isn't a factor? That's just so wrong. 
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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HomeRunBaker said:
Yup and drug dealers have bullets fired at them at a higher rate than accountants. You people have no idea how these drug dealers have been treated by police when they report this crime at the local station. It's due to this prejudice that more drug dealers aren't reporting these crimes.

You are either ignorant or deliberately obtuse to the realities of how drug dealers are brutalized.

Criminal behavior = Criminal behavior. Funny how they are treated the same by authorities.
 
Holy shit.
 
Edit:  Sorry about the drive by.  I should have said more.  It occurs to me that yes, drug dealers are more likely to be shot at, but that doesn't excuse the shooters.  Prostitutes are more likely to be raped, but I can't understand how on earth that means that raping a prostitute still isn't rape, just as murdering a drug dealer still is murder.
 

ALiveH

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HRB - thumbs up on the drug dealer analogy.
 
i'm not sure what evidence she could bring at this point?  obviously not physical evidence.  unless there are some eyewitnesses to back her up, there is a zero percent chance she wins.
 
the most important thing i learned from this thread is that prostitution and drugs should be legalized to protect prostitutes and drug dealers from violence.
 

JimBoSox9

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HomeRunBaker said:
Explain to me how one criminals accusation is to be taken more seriously than another criminals accusation regardless of the crime? It's the price a criminal pays.....they lose credibility and aren't taken serious for this very reason.

If your a criminal you better bring some concrete evidence with you as your word doesn't mean much.
 
Then why does Jerry Jones' word mean anything?
 

JohntheBaptist

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JimBoSox9 said:
 
Then why does Jerry Jones' word mean anything?
Because he's not a criminal because to believe he's a criminal means you believe her word and she already is a criminal because she's a prostitute and therefore not believable so Jerry is therefore believable and not technically a criminal.
 

WayBackVazquez

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ALiveH said:
 
i'm not sure what evidence she could bring at this point?  obviously not physical evidence.  unless there are some eyewitnesses to back her up, there is a zero percent chance she wins.
 
 
There is basically no case that survives summary judgment and goes to a jury that has a zero percent chance of winning. 
 

Thieving Venison

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HRB, I missed where it was mentioned (outside this thread) that she was an alleged prostitute. None of the articles I read mentioned that. Can you link me?
 
Though, before you even added the prostitution allegation you wrote this:
 
 
HomeRunBaker said:
It's a little more than "she was dressed like a hoe so she deserved it" but nice try.

I dunno......stripper and her stripper friend being groped while appearing to enjoy it and/or taking pics of the fun only to report an "incident" 5 years later doesn't exactly pass the credibility test of an assault to me. Maybe I'm wrong but it looks like a prototypical money grab that goes on all the time.
 
Is being a stripper also cause for losing credibility? I'm asking your opinion, not in the eyes of the court.
 

PBDWake

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BoredViewer said:
Some of the replies in this thread....
 
Re: the perpetually raped prostitutes.  Sure - maybe locked in a shady brothel in Thailand... but probably not this (then) 22 yr old that parties with billionaire NFL owners and maintained a social media presence.
 
Maybe there is a "Ray Rice"  video out there that could change all of our minds, but to act like those of us that - based on what we know - are taking this claim with a very healthy dose of skepticism are anything but utterly rationale... is weird.  
 
I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that Jerry Jones is guilty. It spun out pretty quickly into a debate as to whether or not people who are prostitutes deserve enough respect that their claims should be taken seriously at face value. I don't know that this girl is telling the truth.
 
There are a lot of prejudices against prostitutes that people have that makes them ideal targets for sexual predators. High end escorts are, yes, less likely to be the victim of a violent rape. But I still think you'd be surprised what the rape rate is for escorts of that social tier. They're not afraid of a pimp beating them senseless for talking, but knowing the reputation and legal budgets of the people they escort, the livelihood they stand to lose, and the fact that everyone involved on their industry relies on silence with regards to their profession make it so that often they will be raped and have little to no recourse in terms of reporting if they want to keep their lifestyle.
 

Myt1

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HomeRunBaker said:
Anyone engaging in criminal activity loses credibility regardless of the allegation. Who has more credibility as a witness as to Aaron Hernandez' whereabouts during a specific timeline, Carlos Ortiz or Don Orsillo (insert any non-criminal)?

I'd want to see more evidence from someone with a criminal and/or shady background than from someone who isn't a criminal and/or has a shady background. That goes for any aspect of life not only a rape accusation.
So it's the criminality aspect of it and not the "getting penetrated" aspect of it? A tax evader would have the same sort of credibility issue?
 

Ralphwiggum

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
It also should be noted that stiffing (npi) a prostitute/escort on her fee is rape. 
 
I don't think this is true, at least from a legal perspective.  Morally it is arguable I guess but legally I am not sure.
 
What if a john pays a prostitute in advance for her services and they have sex.  Then when it is over he steals the money back that he paid her, is that rape?  I don't think so.  I'm not sure how it changes things if he just refuses to pay.  I could be wrong though.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Ralphwiggum said:
 
I don't think this is true, at least from a legal perspective.  Morally it is arguable I guess but legally I am not sure.
 
What if a john pays a prostitute in advance for her services and they have sex.  Then when it is over he steals the money back that he paid her, is that rape?  I don't think so.  I'm not sure how it changes things if he just refuses to pay.  I could be wrong though.
 
I see the situation as a clear understanding that her consent is predicated on payment. Absent that transaction, specifically without her knowing or against her will, seems like sex without consent to me.
 
Not speaking legally, of course.
 

PBDWake

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JohntheBaptist said:
 
I see the situation as a clear understanding that her consent is predicated on payment. Absent that transaction, specifically without her knowing or against her will, seems like sex without consent to me.
 
Not speaking legally, of course.
I was about ready to make the same case, until I went to research it and found that in 2007, a Philadelphia judge ruled that a woman that agreed to sex with 2 men for $250, then was forced to have sex with them for free at gunpoint, was not a rape victim, but that the men had committed "Theft of Services".
 
Fortunately, the bar later rebuked her for the classification. It was a little more difficult to find further precedent, since I'm doing it on my phone at work, and I don't really need "If you don't pay a prostitute, is it rape?" or some variant thereof in my work computer's search history.
 

JohntheBaptist

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PBDWake said:
I was about ready to make the same case, until I went to research it and found that in 2007, a Philadelphia judge ruled that a woman that agreed to sex with 2 men for $250, then was forced to have sex with them for free at gunpoint, was not a rape victim, but that the men had committed "Theft of Services".
 
Fortunately, the bar later rebuked her for the classification. It was a little more difficult to find further precedent, since I'm doing it on my phone at work, and I don't really need "If you don't pay a prostitute, is it rape?" or some variant thereof in my work computer's search history.
 
That's interesting, thanks--like I said, didn't mean to speak legally on the matter at all, IANAL and I have no idea. Was just offering my personal perspective on it.
 

PBDWake

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JohntheBaptist said:
 
That's interesting, thanks--like I said, didn't mean to speak legally on the matter at all, IANAL and I have no idea. Was just offering my personal perspective on it.
 
Oh no, my point was that the current state of the legal system for prostitutes is just appalling. I was agreeing with your general sentiment.
 
Perhaps even more to my point, and to FL's question about why a prostitute wouldn't go to the police, one of the other websites I checked out was a legal defense site where you can ask lawyers questions. The guy had a question about if it was rape if he didn't pay a prostitute and skipped out, and there were text messages proving both parts, that she was a prostitute and he didn't pay. Like 1 lawyer told him it was, the others all basically said "Don't worry, she's a hooker, nobody's going to believe her anyways".
 

Marciano490

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I vaguely remember a line of cases from crim law about rape by deception - I think there's a fancy Latin term Myt1 can provide.  If I tell a girl at a bar that I play for the Yankees and she sleeps with me, that's yucky but legal.  If (and I think this is the case I remember) a man slips into a woman's bed and pretends to be her husband, that's rape.  I think nonpayment of a prostitute would fall into the latter category.
 

Reverend

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Legally speaking, making consent contingent upon the fulfillment of post facto conditions would be an unholy disaster.
 
That said, the people who compare not paying a prostitute to shoplifting are assholes.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Just to clarify, I completely agree that the way that prostitutes are treated under our system is appalling.   The 2007 Philly case is awful and hopefully everyone would agree that forcing anyone to have sex at gunpoint is rape.  And if consent is revoked in advance, or even during the act when the John tells the prostitute that he's not going to pay, then that's also clearly rape (at least it should be).

I think the situation where he refuses to pay afterwards is a tougher argument to make.
 

JohntheBaptist

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PBDWake said:
 
Oh no, my point was that the current state of the legal system for prostitutes is just appalling. I was agreeing with your general sentiment.
 
Perhaps even more to my point, and to FL's question about why a prostitute wouldn't go to the police, one of the other websites I checked out was a legal defense site where you can ask lawyers questions. The guy had a question about if it was rape if he didn't pay a prostitute and skipped out, and there were text messages proving both parts, that she was a prostitute and he didn't pay. Like 1 lawyer told him it was, the others all basically said "Don't worry, she's a hooker, nobody's going to believe her anyways".
Ahh ok, entirely my fault--should have read your first post closer! Thanks, and agreed completely. It's really disheartening.
 

soxfan121

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Marciano490 said:
I vaguely remember a line of cases from crim law about rape by deception - I think there's a fancy Latin term Myt1 can provide.  If I tell a girl at a bar that I play for the Yankees and she sleeps with me, that's yucky but legal.  If (and I think this is the case I remember) a man slips into a woman's bed and pretends to be her husband, that's rape.  I think nonpayment of a prostitute would fall into the latter category.
 
Don't encourage him. 
 

TomRicardo

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brandonchristensen said:
Let's just hope that the Pats don't do anything that could be considered bad or else they will steal the spotlight.
 
"Tom Brady doesn't tip his server!" or something lighting up newsstands. 
 
Sean McCoy.  The story came out yesterday.
 

SumnerH

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HomeRunBaker said:
I generally like it when the accuser isn't not only a stripper, but also an alleged prostitute
 
Who's made such allegations?  Are they credible?  Is there supporting evidence?
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Marciano490 said:
I vaguely remember a line of cases from crim law about rape by deception - I think there's a fancy Latin term Myt1 can provide.  If I tell a girl at a bar that I play for the Yankees and she sleeps with me, that's yucky but legal.  If (and I think this is the case I remember) a man slips into a woman's bed and pretends to be her husband, that's rape.  I think nonpayment of a prostitute would fall into the latter category.
if you substitute Red Sox for Yankees, is it still yucky?
 
What about Pirates? Brewers?
 

ALiveH

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way too much speculation & theory in this thread.  we need some actual SOSH prostitutes to chime in on this issue.
 

BoredViewer

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SumnerH said:
 
Who's made such allegations?  Are they credible?  Is there supporting evidence?
 
Deadspin has the info, but it boils down to an email trail from Jana Weckerly to a prostitute named "Jenna Jayde."
 

Myt1

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Marciano490 said:
I vaguely remember a line of cases from crim law about rape by deception - I think there's a fancy Latin term Myt1 can provide.  If I tell a girl at a bar that I play for the Yankees and she sleeps with me, that's yucky but legal.  If (and I think this is the case I remember) a man slips into a woman's bed and pretends to be her husband, that's rape.  I think nonpayment of a prostitute would fall into the latter category.
I think it's called an Uther Pendragon Special.
 

nvalvo

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amarshal2 said:
 
Skepticism is fine.  I don't think anybody faults skepticism.  I'm skeptical too.  But some people are posting as though they are certain of the facts and that is obviously not true.
 
edit: As to your claim that US prostitutes probably aren't frequently raped.  Show you reasoning or show your sources.  It's pretty obvious to most that prostitutes are highly susceptible to rape on a frequent basis.
 
Yeah, there are some pretty blinkered people in this thread. 
 
That study by Sudhir Venkatesh a few years back found that prostitutes in Chicago were something like four times as likely to be raped by a police officer than arrested by one. 
 

SumnerH

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Marciano490 said:
I vaguely remember a line of cases from crim law about rape by deception - I think there's a fancy Latin term Myt1 can provide.  If I tell a girl at a bar that I play for the Yankees and she sleeps with me, that's yucky but legal.  If (and I think this is the case I remember) a man slips into a woman's bed and pretends to be her husband, that's rape.  I think nonpayment of a prostitute would fall into the latter category.
 
In many jurisdictions it is an incredibly specific statute, and often applies only to pretending to be a husband--there was a case in California about 5 years ago where some guy pretended to be a woman's boyfriend and had "consensual" sex with her; he was not guilty because the statue only applies to impersonating a spouse, not a boyfriend.  http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20CACO%2020130102005
 
There used to be many jurisdictions where a false promise of engagement (or even an actual engagement that was broken off) carried at least civil penalties if it helped induce a woman to sleep with you who wouldn't have otherwise.  I'm not sure whether some of those are still on the books or not.
 

mauf

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If the charges are true, the woman's lawyer did her a disservice with the drafting of that complaint. It reads very much like a shakedown attempt to me -- stripper/prostitute is hired by Jones, blackmails him with photos, extracts settlement with NDA, then seeks more money, then finally sues on the eve of the expiration of the 5-year statute of limitations, asserting that she didn't make a timely police report because she feared for her life.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Should Jones be subject to the wheel of discipline for being a john? Or is it laughable to punish NFL types for paying for sex in the sense that you would have trouble playing/coaching next week's schedule if that became a suspension worthy offense?
 

JimBoSox9

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Gunfighter 09 said:
Should Jones be subject to the wheel of discipline for being a john? Or is it laughable to punish NFL types for paying for sex in the sense that you would have trouble playing/coaching next week's schedule if that became a suspension worthy offense?
Criminal behavior = Criminal behavior, dammit!
 

URI

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I'm just pumped I can rape as many prostitutes as possible and say "Who are you going to believe, me or the person who does illegal things" and HRB will have my back.
 

mikeford

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ALiveH said:
 
 
the most important thing i learned from this thread is that prostitution and drugs should be legalized to protect prostitutes and drug dealers from violence.
Uh, they probably should since prohibition clearly does not work.