I don’t follow overseas nearly as well as I have in the past but I’d certainly have the G-League behind the top overseas leagues…..it’s a matter of where you’d rank them in the next tier. @nighthob would be the guy to opine on this best.
JD Davison, 2nd round pick
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For the Celtics? Are you talking about Tremont Waters? He was third in G League MVP a couple years ago.
That was the guy I was thinking of. What separates JDD from him in terms of the possibility of being able to translate G-League success into NBA usefulness (which Waters couldn't do)?
If nothing else, Davison has NBA size (6'3 195, elite athleticism) while Waters (5'10 175) does not. Davison is also 2 years younger than Waters was when the latter was a rookie.
The Spanish ACB is the second best league in the world. The Gleague fits into that third tier with the French and Italian A Leagues and the Turkish Super League. I haven't checked on it, but I'm assuming that current events broke the Russian Super League, pushing it out of tier 3.
Waters wasn't ever really a distributor either. He just didn't think like a guy who was getting other guys shots. He was a smurf shooting guard who couldn't shoot, basically Carsen Edwards. Difference is that Edwards appeared to have a shot but didn't, while Tremont was able to fake being a distributor at first but turned into a "get mine" guy in the G league and sucked at it.
JD could be fools gold too of course, but his explosiveness gives him a chance that those guys didn't have. And he seems to legit want to find other guys shots, even in the G league where making a pointz splash is often a ticket to a crack at the league.
JD could be fools gold too of course, but his explosiveness gives him a chance that those guys didn't have. And he seems to legit want to find other guys shots, even in the G league where making a pointz splash is often a ticket to a crack at the league.
Thanks. That was the detailed sort of comparison I was looking for. (I didn't see any G League of either of them)
Waters was a distributor - he was more of a pure PG than Davison IMO - but I think someone told him yhat to stick he must score so he took lots of bad shots. And didn't make them.
He's apparently playing with Wembayana.
View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjbJ2xWudQ6/
Yeah that's what fooled some of us (raising hand). He had nice handle and looked in his first summer league or exhibition like a guy who might be a distributor. Then he went to the G league and built a few brick shithouses but stopped passing.
JD seems interested in moving the ball. We'll see.
We also kind of hoped (well I did at least) he would be a pickpocket on defense after winning co-DPOY in the SEC.
There was optimism between him and Arson for a few months but that faded pretty quickly. He'll always have that Sacramento game.
They were 2nd round picks that amounted to nothing...Standard.
By rate stats he was a pickpocket. The guy has averaged more than 2 steals/36 everywhere he's gone. Preternatural hands... But the rest of his game was so bad it didn't matter, was my impression.
Waters was always a scoring PG and not a pure distributor in college. JD’s big advantage is that it is always easier to learn to slow the game down rather than have to speed up to catch up. If he sticks with it and works hard the kid can have a chance someday to make it…..he’s a long ways away though.
Waters was always a scoring PG and not a pure distributor in college. JD’s big advantage is that it is always easier to learn to slow the game down rather than have to speed up to catch up. If he sticks with it and works hard the kid can have a chance someday to make it…..he’s a long ways away though.
It's a bit of a fake out.... they aren't next to each other, Waters is behind making it look even more absurd than it really is.
JDD's height gets listed anywhere from 6'0" to 6'3" which is weird in this era of better measurements.
Waters was listed at 5'10".
JDD is more athletic than Waters, and taller, so I don't see them as comparable.
I think a closer physical comp for JDD would be Terry Rozier. I'm not saying Rozier is a good basketball talent comp for JDD - but they are similar in height and both have above average athleticism for the NBA. Both rebound very well for 6'1" guys.
I still think JDD is closer to longshot than pure NBA talent, but maybe the 99th percentile best case scenario for JDD is probably something like Rozier, while the median outcome for JDD is someone who manages to stay on the back end of an NBA roster for a few years, which is better than most low second round picks are able to do.
Waters was listed at 5'10".
JDD is more athletic than Waters, and taller, so I don't see them as comparable.
I think a closer physical comp for JDD would be Terry Rozier. I'm not saying Rozier is a good basketball talent comp for JDD - but they are similar in height and both have above average athleticism for the NBA. Both rebound very well for 6'1" guys.
I still think JDD is closer to longshot than pure NBA talent, but maybe the 99th percentile best case scenario for JDD is probably something like Rozier, while the median outcome for JDD is someone who manages to stay on the back end of an NBA roster for a few years, which is better than most low second round picks are able to do.
LOL. According to nbadraft.net his combine measurements were 6'0.5" barefoot and 6'2.5" in shoes. Big shoes too.
It looks like he could be. He has a ton of athleticism, and a nice feel for setting up teammates. JDD is very young, and will have to see his game mature rapidly to see the minutes Pritchard played this season, as the fourth PG on a team where Smart and Brogdon will miss games. He didn’t shoot the ball well from three, an 31%, JT was good inside the arc, at 56%, using his burst to get to the rim, or drive the paint for short turnaround jumpers or floaters. Very good throwing the lob to rim runners on the pick/roll.
Of course, he could be just a guy, like scores of late second round or undrafted players trying to find a role in the league. He should latch onto Brogdon (if he hasn’t already) to learn how to develop his spots on the floor to score efficiency as a lead guard.
He has to get out of Boston so he can get NBA minutes and have a chance. Assuming he’s elsewhere by the middle of next season I’d expect to see him getting a look-see by a lottery team post-ASB next year.
You don’t think he’s in the plans as the PP replacement? Because he’s lacking the 3pt shot?
There's always developmental minutes available in the first third of the regular season or so (e.g., Sam Hauser this past season). And there's a decent chance of at least one of Grant or Pritchard being gone. He will be with Boston next season as a result; his leverage to go elsewhere is extremely limited right now.
League average three point shooting this year was .361. If Davidson can just bump his up to like .350 - below average but not TOO bad (over 200 three point shots it is just a difference of TWO made threes) - he would be a very valuable player I'd think. He shot threes at a .301 rate in college so there's work to be done, but it doesn't seem like it's CRAZY to think he could get to .350.
Ask Pritchard if this is true and he’s not even a developmental guy. Hauser is a little different as his skillset filled a specific need on the team and not as a developmental player. Davison doesn’t provide any specific skill for a winning veteran team. I agree his leverage is low which magnifies my value of a players agent in their early years because he needs minutes that simply are not going to be available in Boston when we are trying to win games.
Davison’s problem in addition to shooting is being a turnover machine due to poor decision making and inability to defend in a team concept. It’s difficult to take much from G-League which sometimes resemble pickup games but these flaws jumped off the screen the last time he played in significant games in the NCAA tournament. He’s a long long way from helping a team win NBA games.
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He's 20 and would benefit from another season on the Maine shuttle. His game isn't NBA-ready yet. Another year of working on the most learnable skill
in the G-League will help his long-term development/opportunity.Hopefully, his agent is giving him that advice and he spends the summer in the Auerbach Center launching 1000 3s/day with Ben Sullivan
Drafting Freshman lottery tickets in the 2nd round is fine but they need to be nurtured over several years. OR you're just better off selecting higher-floor upperclassmen in the 2nd round
Unless he has any trade value (doubtful) I'd expect he'll be a cheap end-of-the-roster contract next season moving into the 4th string PG slot after PP gets moved.
I bolded what is optimal for contenders and that is what Boston has been doing since we became contenders in drafting Grant and Pritchard, two mature and developed players who could play NBA minutes immediately albeit with a low ceiling which is ideal for a role player on a rookie deal. Those options are rarely available in the mid-2nd round so we stashed that foreign PG I can’t think of and Begarin. At 53, the Davison selection isn’t really a choice between someone to contribute now (since their likely isn’t anyone) or to develop since you realistically can’t not pick anyone so we took a young guy with elite NBA athleticism who can’t play near that level yet. I doubt it says anything to the idea that they really like him as a player though since you have to pick someone there.He's 20 and would benefit from another season on the Maine shuttle. His game isn't NBA-ready yet. Another year of working on the most learnable skill
Hopefully, his agent is giving him that advice and he spends the summer in the Auerbach Center launching 1000 3s/day with Ben Sullivan
Drafting Freshman lottery tickets in the 2nd round is fine but they need to be nurtured over several years. OR you're just better off selecting higher-floor upperclassmen in the 2nd round
Unless he has any trade value (doubtful) I'd expect he'll be a cheap end-of-the-roster contract next season moving into the 4th string PG slot after PP gets moved.
Agreed, Boston's status should have them lean towards higher-floor, decorated upperclassmen in the 2nd round.
That Senior PF from Indiana is my pre-draft binky. Has NBA size/body type (6'9" 245) and can handle the ball in the open court.
https://www.tankathon.com/players/trayce-jackson-davis
I love his game as an NBA plug-n-play but don’t see how we can snag him. He’d be an ideal replacement for Grant on a rookie deal.
Forgive the bump with no news but I think the new CBA has interesting implications for Davison.
Going into this year, I liked Davison as a high-upside, risky play. Smarter people than me argued that Davison was likely drafted to be developed and use as an asset for trades in the event that he looked like a solid rotation piece.
With the new CBA, it looks like the Celtics guard depth is going to be an area they trade salary from. It's increasingly more likely that PP is real role player next year and possibly going forward.
With what Davison did in the G League, does this board think he could fit that slot too? How far is he of Prichard? My gut tells me Prichard has a lower floor - he won't embarrass you, but he won't be good. I think Davison has a chance at being something more dynamic.
I have very little hope for the other Celtics stash candidates (Yam and Begarin). Am I crazy for thinking more of Davison?
Going into this year, I liked Davison as a high-upside, risky play. Smarter people than me argued that Davison was likely drafted to be developed and use as an asset for trades in the event that he looked like a solid rotation piece.
With the new CBA, it looks like the Celtics guard depth is going to be an area they trade salary from. It's increasingly more likely that PP is real role player next year and possibly going forward.
With what Davison did in the G League, does this board think he could fit that slot too? How far is he of Prichard? My gut tells me Prichard has a lower floor - he won't embarrass you, but he won't be good. I think Davison has a chance at being something more dynamic.
I have very little hope for the other Celtics stash candidates (Yam and Begarin). Am I crazy for thinking more of Davison?
I think he is an NBA player, though how good of one is an open question. How does he get the experience he needs to develop his game?
He's an incredible thrower of lobs.
He gets experience by getting playing time. This team doesn’t need to worry about winning 60 games. Develop athletic young players. Cut down on your best players’ regular season minutes a bit.
The dip on his shot makes it really slow. He needs to figure out how to get rid of that and go straight up.
Yeah if home court continues to mean nothing for them they really don’t need to push things.
Yeah the one thing I noticed is he’s gonna need a quicker release on that 3point shot against NBA closeouts.
He doesn’t even look like he is in shape for a professional athlete and his gift is athleticism. We need the Riley bf% shit. Is he bulking for some reason? If so I retract my statement.
Yeah those are Paul Pierce levels of dough.
Having said that, does body fat really get in the way of athleticism at this level?
Between being super lean and lean probably not but between being lean and not lean, I would say yes. Guys like him need to max his potential.
Davison had one of the highest Body Fat % of the guards at the Combine. Only 2 I see were higher and neither were drafted unless I missed something. He clearly needs work in this area.
Did find this nugget in my quick search however.
With the quickness and hops he has shown, I am not concerned with his look. Getting ripped would make him even more athletic, but it isn't his problem.
JDD's speed is nice, but jeez he's loose with the ball. He'd be a turnover machine against a disciplined defense
Seems like a waste honestly. Hopefully that’s proven wrong, but it’s hard to see the potential with this guy. Summer league success doesn’t mean you’ll be a star, but you’d like to see at at least some success in this level of competition.