JD Davison, 2nd round pick

[HomeRunBaker]

I agree. Currently I think there is no long term harm for prospects leaving school early (it might be beneficial).

If the goal is maximizing the first contract (perhaps not unreasonable), then going back to school to become a potential 1st round pick with more guaranteed money might make some sense.

But a top recruit that doesn't do well in his first season and ends up 2nd round/undrafted isn't going to have a worse long term outlook by going pro.

In addition (and I have ZERO evidence this was the case here), a prospect could decide that his college program simply isn't getting him what he needs in relevant reps and skill development, and could bet on himself being able to absorb instruction better in a G-League setting.

There are enough guys who have made significant improvements in their G-League stints (many of them 3-4 year college guys) that it's not crazy to want to get a jump on that process.

i don’t think it is even close anymore as to which route is best for a player to develop an NBA game…….and you get paid for it too. The old adage of “xyz would have benefited from another year in school” is so 1990’s.

College: NCAA restricts amount of practice time per week. Asst coaches primary responsibility is to recruit. You get to play under NCAA rules against zone defenses and in a non-NBA system.

Pro: Unlimited practice time with professional coaches, skill trainers, and nutritionists. Developmental coaches primary job is to develop the young players skillset. You get to play under NBA rules in an NBA system.

if you ever find yourself saying, “xyz could have benefitted by staying in school” please reconsider your position.

 

[lexrageorge]

i don’t think it is even close anymore as to which route is best for a player to develop an NBA game…….and you get paid for it too. The old adage of “xyz would have benefited from another year in school” is so 1990’s.

College: NCAA restricts amount of practice time per week. Asst coaches primary responsibility is to recruit. You get to play under NCAA rules against zone defenses and in a non-NBA system.

Pro: Unlimited practice time with professional coaches, skill trainers, and nutritionists. Developmental coaches primary job is to develop the young players skillset. You get to play under NBA rules in an NBA system.

if you ever find yourself saying, “xyz could have benefitted by staying in school” please reconsider your position.

I think a lot of older fans still have the impression of the NBA of the 1980's, when teams would actually fly on commercial flights. I once flew on a flight out of Salt Lake with the Utah Jazz. NBA front offices were for the most part shoestring operations; the Celtics under Paul Gaston were notorious for having the bare minimum of support and coaching staffs. A 19 year old second rounder would get far more attention from the NCAA coaches on the team for which he was a regular starter than he would from an overworked assistant on an underfunded team like Boston was at the time.

The change the last 20 years in the area of player development and coaching in the NBA has been phenomenal.

 

[radsoxfan]

if you ever find yourself saying, “xyz could have benefitted by staying in school” please reconsider your position.

Yup.

The only potential benefit now is financially, though it's certainly not a given someone will get picked higher by going back to school.

A young 2nd round/undrafted player with upside might boost their stock by going back to school, get picked much higher, but still end up a bust without a second contract. That player at least ends up with better 1st contract money.

 

[Smokey Joe]

i don’t think it is even close anymore as to which route is best for a player to develop an NBA game…….and you get paid for it too. The old adage of “xyz would have benefited from another year in school” is so 1990’s.

College: NCAA restricts amount of practice time per week. Asst coaches primary responsibility is to recruit. You get to play under NCAA rules against zone defenses and in a non-NBA system.

Pro: Unlimited practice time with professional coaches, skill trainers, and nutritionists. Developmental coaches primary job is to develop the young players skillset. You get to play under NBA rules in an NBA system.

if you ever find yourself saying, “xyz could have benefitted by staying in school” please reconsider your position.

and how about the overwhelming majority of college basketball players who will never get a sniff of the NBA? As I remember from the 90's and earlier, They weren't talking about their basketball development when they said these guys should stay in school, it was personal, educational and social development and the fact that a lot of the guys who came out for the draft were never going to be NBA players.

We sometimes concentrate too much on the top .001 percent.

 

[lovegtm]

i don’t think it is even close anymore as to which route is best for a player to develop an NBA game…….and you get paid for it too. The old adage of “xyz would have benefited from another year in school” is so 1990’s.

College: NCAA restricts amount of practice time per week. Asst coaches primary responsibility is to recruit. You get to play under NCAA rules against zone defenses and in a non-NBA system.

Pro: Unlimited practice time with professional coaches, skill trainers, and nutritionists. Developmental coaches primary job is to develop the young players skillset. You get to play under NBA rules in an NBA system.

if you ever find yourself saying, “xyz could have benefitted by staying in school” please reconsider your position.

Yup, you said it the way I would have, if I weren't trying to limit the heat of my takes

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Yup.

The only potential benefit now is financially, though it's certainly not a given someone will get picked higher by going back to school.

A young 2nd round/undrafted player with upside might boost their stock by going back to school, get picked much higher, but still end up a bust without a second contract. That player at least ends up with better 1st contract money.

Is it even worth it financially? Hitting FA a year sooner seems more beneficial, at least if you get a 2nd contract.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

and how about the overwhelming majority of college basketball players who will never get a sniff of the NBA? As I remember from the 90's and earlier, They weren't talking about their basketball development when they said these guys should stay in school, it was personal, educational and social development and the fact that a lot of the guys who came out for the draft were never going to be NBA players.

We sometimes concentrate too much on the top .001 percent.

Considering the conversation, the .001 percent is the group we are worried about. The other players won't get drafted and the vast majority of them don't have false hopes of an NBA career. They aren't leaving college earlier to join the draft. They aren't even going to sniff the draft or an NBA court. They are 0 threat to leave school for the NBA.

I mean, every know and then you get a Scottie Thurman I guess. There are no more Leon Smith's though. Now they have to go to Europe for a year. I'm surprised more NBA bound kids don't skip college in favor of Europe, honestly. The only thing they are going to accomplish in college is make someone else's wallet fat and carrying a bunch of bums to victory. Staying for a 2nd year will most likely cause them to slip in the draft. How many players actually improve their draft stock nowadays staying in college for another year?

Honestly, I kinda wonder if college basketball is going the way of computers. AKA nba teams think college actually hurts a players development and they'd rather develop them in the NBA. Kinda how computer nerds don't need college degrees, they get recruited right out of HS so they don't get corrupted.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

In the world where 2 ways and the G league exists, going back to college for another year seems stupid. Who has materially improved their stock over the last decade going back another year?

 

[NomarsFool]

There’s also the injury risk, of course. What’s a 2nd round pick typically earn? I know it’s not FRP money, but I imagine it’s still a lot more than 99% of college basketball players will ever make.

in the case of Davidson, if he could have been drafted a year earlier he’s a lottery pick. So, an additional year knocked him from lottery to 2nd round. Maybe another year in school and he doesn’t get drafted at all.

I think he was wise to take the bird in the hand.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

There’s also the injury risk, of course. What’s a 2nd round pick typically earn? I know it’s not FRP money, but I imagine it’s still a lot more than 99% of college basketball players will ever make.

in the case of Davidson, if he could have been drafted a year earlier he’s a lottery pick. So, an additional year knocked him from lottery to 2nd round. Maybe another year in school and he doesn’t get drafted at all.

I think he was wise to take the bird in the hand.

Unless you go in the 50’s you’re getting guaranteed money today and more than likely a 2-yr guarantee. Of course there is also the benefit of starting your FA clock as well.

 

[Just a bit outside]

In the world where 2 ways and the G league exists, going back to college for another year seems stupid. Who has materially improved their stock over the last decade going back another year?

Here are a bunch already posted in this thread.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/jd-davison-2nd-round-pick.36878/post-5067991
If your goal is to be a higher draft pick it can work and of course there are other factors that are influencing each player.
That doesn’t mean these players wouldn’t be more nba ready if they came out early.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

In the world where 2 ways and the G league exists, going back to college for another year seems stupid. Who has materially improved their stock over the last decade going back another year?

Agreed on first point. The second can be misinterpreted. It is implying that the growth a player makes during college would not have occurred under a better developmental setting which would require the moving of many goalposts to show. Assuming this to be true the amount of money made by beginning a players FA clock early is far greater than the improved rookie contract that they would receive. The only group that benefits in this scenario is the player who returns to school for a better rookie contract and then fails as a pro so they don’t ever realize the benefit of starting their FA clock sooner so it is fundamentally true that “some” players would benefit to return to school……the ones who don’t make it to a good second NBA contract.

 

[JCizzle]

In the world where 2 ways and the G league exists, going back to college for another year seems stupid. Who has materially improved their stock over the last decade going back another year?

Jaden Ivey, Morant, etc. ? It doesn't seem to be very uncommon for sophomores to go high and I doubt either guy was going to be top 5 as a freshman.

 

[TripleOT]

Unless you go in the 50’s you’re getting guaranteed money today and more than likely a 2-yr guarantee. Of course there is also the benefit of starting your FA clock as well.

Some prospected drafted in the 50s are seeing guaranteed money, like KMart Jr in Houston (3/$4.1m), Jalen McDaniels (4/$6.1n, with $4.2m guarantee). Brandon Boston got 2/$2.5m guaranteed as a first contract.

The odds are that a couple of these 19 year old one and dones who don’t have a good freshman year at college but eventually thrive in the NBA after being picked late in the second round are probably pretty good. Hopefully Davison will be one of them

 

[radsoxfan]

Is it even worth it financially? Hitting FA a year sooner seems more beneficial, at least if you get a 2nd contract.

Only if you are bad and never get the second contract.

If hypothetical future JD Davison is out of the NBA at age 24, it’s possible going back to Alabama for his second season, boosting his stock, and becoming a 1st rounder was the best financial outcome for his career.

Clearly potential financial incentives the other way as well if he pans out.

 

[JM3]

Financially, it can 100% help to go back to college - & potentially developmentally if you're someone like Keegan Murray who the NBA wouldn't even have been thinking about or worrying about prioritizing development of after having 0 interest from colleges the year before & not doing much as a Freshman.

Now Murray is the Kings' developmental priority instead of some fringe afterthought.

If you're at least on the radar, though, yeah, get yourself out there & start doing your job full time.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Financially, it can 100% help to go back to college - & potentially developmentally if you're someone like Keegan Murray who the NBA wouldn't even have been thinking about or worrying about prioritizing development of after having 0 interest from colleges the year before & not doing much as a Freshman.

Now Murray is the Kings' developmental priority instead of some fringe afterthought.

If you're at least on the radar, though, yeah, get yourself out there & start doing your job full time.

Yeah, I didn't mean to come across as all or nothing. I think your last line says it best. If you are on the radar and will get drafted, you should probably go ahead and get drafted. This is especially true in the age of 15+2 rosters and many other options to get paid playing basketball. If you are Derrick White, staying in school is beneficial.

Has anyone ever had a "rebound" in draft stock? Like, they were predicted top 5, stunk up the joint, returned for another year and went top 5? Or is it more guys who might go in the top 20, return, and then go top 5? Seems like it's hard to recover elite prospect status once you lose it. That's true in MLB too, not sure about NHL or NFL. Maybe if Davison goes back to school, he goes at the end of the 1st round?

He's pretty much guaranteed a 2 way deal, which pays him $75k for his G league contract and up to an additional $200k in NBA salary. If he gets put on the 15, the league minimum is over $1 million for the first time ever in 22/23.

Hell, pretty sure Carsen Edwards just signed a 2 year deal. Even 2nd rounders stick around for a couple years.

edit: I don't really watch college basketball anymore but back in the day, once you lost prospect status, you didn't really get it back. You'd just be a year older.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

CsBlog with a good breakdown of Davison's game: https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/6/26/23182348/exploring-jd-davisons-game-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-jaylen-brown-marcus-smart-ime-udoka.

Conclusion? He's really far away. Hopefully he has a high Bball IQ because conceptually, he has a ton to learn on both sides of the ball.

 

[radsoxfan]

Has anyone ever had a "rebound" in draft stock? Like, they were predicted top 5, stunk up the joint, returned for another year and went top 5?

WIthout digging, I'm sure this happens sometimes. I don't know about top 5 but certainly from 2nd round/undrafted to lottery pick. Guys like Davison, Peyton Watson etc still have time to turn it around, a lot can happen in a year.

Freshman in college is a gigantic change from the high schools some of these guys came from and it doesn't always click right away.

We're hoping JD is one of the guys that would have made that leap as a sophomore but he does it in the G league instead.

 

[JakeRae]

Yeah, I didn't mean to come across as all or nothing. I think your last line says it best. If you are on the radar and will get drafted, you should probably go ahead and get drafted. This is especially true in the age of 15+2 rosters and many other options to get paid playing basketball. If you are Derrick White, staying in school is beneficial.

Has anyone ever had a "rebound" in draft stock? Like, they were predicted top 5, stunk up the joint, returned for another year and went top 5? Or is it more guys who might go in the top 20, return, and then go top 5? Seems like it's hard to recover elite prospect status once you lose it. That's true in MLB too, not sure about NHL or NFL. Maybe if Davison goes back to school, he goes at the end of the 1st round?

He's pretty much guaranteed a 2 way deal, which pays him $75k for his G league contract and up to an additional $200k in NBA salary. If he gets put on the 15, the league minimum is over $1 million for the first time ever in 22/23.

Hell, pretty sure Carsen Edwards just signed a 2 year deal. Even 2nd rounders stick around for a couple years.

edit: I don't really watch college basketball anymore but back in the day, once you lost prospect status, you didn't really get it back. You'd just be a year older.

I cannot come up with an example off the top of my head, but this must happen because a bad year as a freshman in college doesn’t mean all that much if you follow it up with a really strong sophomore year. Guys who aren’t elite prospects jump into that tier as a result of one great season, so it stands to reason that guys who were once elite prospects can get back there the same way.

At the NBA level, which I have more knowledge of, we definitely see this. Grant Williams is a good example of how a young player’s stock can crater after a bad year and rebound after a good year.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Not for nothing but I’m guessing Davison lost some development time to COVID with two high school seasons affected. Of course, he’s hardly alone there, but for more raw talents that’s the kind of thing that could hurt a bit more. Caveat that I have no idea what higher level hs ball looked like during peak pandemic.

Overall I do wonder if there’s a chance that the post-draft development of kids from these classes might look a little different.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I cannot come up with an example off the top of my head, but this must happen because a bad year as a freshman in college doesn’t mean all that much if you follow it up with a really strong sophomore year. Guys who aren’t elite prospects jump into that tier as a result of one great season, so it stands to reason that guys who were once elite prospects can get back there the same way.

Logically, yes. But how come no one can come up with an example? It just seems players get punished for having the bad year, even if they do recover. It's like had they not been a top 5 recruit and struggled, then had a great sophomore year, they'd be a top 5 pick. But since they were a top 5 recruit and struggled, they go mid 1st round.

I don't disagree at all that it does stand to reason. Yet, I don't think that's actually the case. It might have been in the 80s and 90s. I think some of it's just selection bias too, though. Players projected for the top 5 still might go in the lottery or the first round. And as discussed, it's probably a better option to go 15th in 2022 than it is to go 4th in 2023, at least if you have an NBA career. Staying in school doesn't really make sense unless you are completely off the NBA radar. Or independently wealthy or an academic, I guess.

Rookie scale in 2022 is over $1 million. They can always go back to school after they pocket a couple million washing out of the league.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Not for nothing but I’m guessing Davison lost some development time to COVID with two high school seasons affected. Of course, he’s hardly alone there, but for more raw talents that’s the kind of thing that could hurt a bit more. Caveat that I have no idea what higher level hs ball looked like during peak pandemic.

Overall I do wonder if there’s a chance that the post-draft development of kids from these classes might look a little different.

This is a good reminder, not nothing.

Every time someone talks down a baseball prospect with "well, he's 24 in high A, he sucks", I wonder why they're not recalibrating these assumptions. The kid lost a whole year of development with covid and maybe a year of development due to UCL (if), maybe you should think of him as a 22YO and judge from there.

19 with a lost year is a young guy.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Logically, yes. But how come no one can come up with an example? It just seems players get punished for having the bad year, even if they do recover. It's like had they not been a top 5 recruit and struggled, then had a great sophomore year, they'd be a top 5 pick. But since they were a top 5 recruit and struggled, they go mid 1st round.

I don't disagree at all that it does stand to reason. Yet, I don't think that's actually the case. It might have been in the 80s and 90s. I think some of it's just selection bias too, though. Players projected for the top 5 still might go in the lottery or the first round. And as discussed, it's probably a better option to go 15th in 2022 than it is to go 4th in 2023, at least if you have an NBA career. Staying in school doesn't really make sense unless you are completely off the NBA radar. Or independently wealthy or an academic, I guess.

Rookie scale in 2022 is over $1 million. They can always go back to school after they pocket a couple million washing out of the league.

The reason nobody can come up with an example may be because you’re asking the wrong audience. I don’t know how many people obsessively follow the college game here and those are the people who would know

 

[radsoxfan]

Logically, yes. But how come no one can come up with an example? It just seems players get punished for having the bad year, even if they do recover. It's like had they not been a top 5 recruit and struggled, then had a great sophomore year, they'd be a top 5 pick. But since they were a top 5 recruit and struggled, they go mid 1st round.

I don't disagree at all that it does stand to reason. Yet, I don't think that's actually the case.

I honestly don't really follow high school recruiting enough to know. I only know JD Davison was highly touted because once we picked him people mentioned it.

Tons of players have mediocre freshman seasons and then "pop" as a sophomore or later. I would bet some of those were big time high school recruits but someone else would know a lot better than I would (and I don't feel like digging into it )

Edit: I did feel like digging bit, see below

 

[Smokey Joe]

Not for nothing but I’m guessing Davison lost some development time to COVID with two high school seasons affected. Of course, he’s hardly alone there, but for more raw talents that’s the kind of thing that could hurt a bit more. Caveat that I have no idea what higher level hs ball looked like during peak pandemic.

Overall I do wonder if there’s a chance that the post-draft development of kids from these classes might look a little different.

It would not surprise me if the effects of Covid are more pronounced on the kids her were 12-14 at the time. The 15-18 year olds werealready in the developmental pipeline and likely were shunted to organizations and locations that cheerfully ignored the restrictions.
So if there is an upswing of “kids these days! They don’t want to learn the fundamentals!” Comments, you’ll know the cause.

 

[JM3]

The main reason is that guys who are recruited that highly almost always come out after their Freshman year almost no matter what. Didn't find any decent examples of top 5 guys who stayed more than 1 year & were decent in the last 10 years or so.

The rankings I'm looking at have Davison 13. Will expand search a bit.

 

[Just a bit outside]

Yeah, I didn't mean to come across as all or nothing. I think your last line says it best. If you are on the radar and will get drafted, you should probably go ahead and get drafted. This is especially true in the age of 15+2 rosters and many other options to get paid playing basketball. If you are Derrick White, staying in school is beneficial.

Has anyone ever had a "rebound" in draft stock? Like, they were predicted top 5, stunk up the joint, returned for another year and went top 5? Or is it more guys who might go in the top 20, return, and then go top 5? Seems like it's hard to recover elite prospect status once you lose it. That's true in MLB too, not sure about NHL or NFL. Maybe if Davison goes back to school, he goes at the end of the 1st round?

He's pretty much guaranteed a 2 way deal, which pays him $75k for his G league contract and up to an additional $200k in NBA salary. If he gets put on the 15, the league minimum is over $1 million for the first time ever in 22/23.

Hell, pretty sure Carsen Edwards just signed a 2 year deal. Even 2nd rounders stick around for a couple years.

edit: I don't really watch college basketball anymore but back in the day, once you lost prospect status, you didn't really get it back. You'd just be a year older.

The problem is almost all top 5 recruits go into the draft even even they don’t perform as freshman. I quickly looked at the last 5 years and I think everyone of the top 5 entered the draft. That included guys like Bol Bol and Boston Jr. who were drafted in the second round.

 

[radsoxfan]

OK I did a quick look over the last 7 years and it's admittedly hard to find that top recruit that went back to school to improve and ended up a lotto pick. So many of these guys are 1 and done, regardless if they were good in college or not.

2017 PJ Washington was the 12th rated recruit (ESPN), went back to school for his sophomore year, and ended up a lotto pick (#12).

2016 Miles Bridges was the 8th rated recruit, returned for his sophomore season, and ended up #12 also. He didn't improve much his second season though, was similar as a freshman at Mich. St

2015 Jalen Brunson is an interesting one, he was #16 ranked out of high school (I had no idea) and improved significantly over 3 seasons at Villanova. Still only picked #33 though.

2014 Justin Jackson was the #8 recruit, improved over 3 seasons at UNC, and ended up #15 pick

 

[JM3]

Not sure if these guys necessarily fit the criteria but it's a sample of some top 15ers since 2010 who stayed more than 1 year...

2010 - Harrison Barnes: #1 HS recruit, stayed for 2 seasons at UNC, drafted 7th. Not sure why he stayed an extra year, but his Freshman year wasn't much worse than his Sophomore year.

2010 - Will Barton: #13 HS recruit, stayed for 2 seasons at Memphis, drafted 40th. In hindsight, seems like a drafting fail by a lot of teams. Jumped from 12 to 18 ppg & from 28 to 35% on 3s.

2010 - Reggie Bullock: #15 HS recruit, stayed at UNC for 3 seasons, drafted 25th. Improved from 6 to 14 ppg & from 30 to 44% 3s. Also underdrafted.

2011 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: #12 HS recruit, stayed at UGA for 2 seasons, drafted 8th. Improved from 13 to 19 ppg & from 30 to 37% on 3s.

2012 - Kyle Anderson: #3 HS recruit, stayed at UCLA for 2 seasons, drafted 30th. Improved from 10 to 15 ppg & from 21 to 48% on 3s.

2012 - Marcus Smart: #10 HS recruit, stayed at OSU got 2 seasons, drafted #6. Improved from 15 to 18 ppg & from 29 to 30% on 3s.

2016 - Miles Bridges: #12 HS recruit, stayed at Michigan State for 2 seasons, drafted 12th. Pretty much identical stats both seasons. Not really sure why he stayed a 2nd year.

2017 - PJ Washington: #15 HS recruit, stayed at Kentucky for 2 seasons, drafted 12th (also, like Miles, by the Hornets). Improved from 11 to 15 ppg & from 28 to 42% on 3s.

Kris Dunn is kind of an interesting one if you're just looking for draft pick & not like actual NBA success - #16 in 2012, stayed at Providence for 4 seasons, improving from 6 to 16 ppg & from 29 to 37% on 3s. Drafted 5th for some reason.

But yeah, basically everyone just comes out now no matter what. Of the top 15 from last season, only Emoni Bates & Scoota Henderson didn't come out, & that's because they were both too young to be draft eligible.

 

[nighthob]

Just a note, hanging out the extra year didn't help Marcus's draft position. He was being discussed as a top 3 pick in 2013. At the very worst he would have gone top 6. I'm forever grateful that he went back for his sophomore year.

 

[JM3]

Just a note, hanging out the extra year didn't help Marcus's draft position. He was being discussed as a top 3 pick in 2013. At the very worst he would have gone top 6. I'm forever grateful that he went back for his sophomore year.

Interesting little article from Tjarks about the Magic wanting him. They ended up taking Oladipo 2nd that year.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/9/4316284/nba-draft-2013-orlando-magic-marcus-smart

A guy I missed in my previous summary was Cody Zeller who went 4th in 2013. He was the #10 ranked out of HS in 2011 & played 2 years at Indiana. Both of his college seasons were pretty similar.

 

[nighthob]

I mean you look at the ‘14 draft and I’m pretty sure that Ainge unloads the pick for an OK vet if Marcus isn’t sitting there. Or gives up Jaylen or Jayson for the right to draft Dante Exum. Thank god in heaven that Marcus went back to OSU.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I mean you look at the ‘14 draft and I’m pretty sure that Ainge unloads the pick for an OK vet if Marcus isn’t sitting there. Or gives up Jaylen or Jayson for the right to draft Dante Exum. Thank god in heaven that Marcus went back to OSU.

Remember Terrance Morris at Maryland? He made a big leap his sophomore year after playing behind Rodney Elliott as a freshman. His name was mentioned in the low teens of every mock until he announced he was returning to Maryland. Over the next two years he forced more and more shots, ending up playing all 4 years and wasn’t even picked in the 1st round. Pretty sure Stevie Franchise was on a couple of those teams.

 

[benhogan]

Just a note, hanging out the extra year didn't help Marcus's draft position. He was being discussed as a top 3 pick in 2013. At the very worst he would have gone top 6. I'm forever grateful that he went back for his sophomore year.

Yea, neither Marcus or TimeLord helped their draft stock by going back to college for another year.

The C's benefitted in both cases

 

[benhogan]

Also the kid Trevion Williams just invited to play in Vegas for Boston didn't do himself any favors by going back to Purdue. G-League would have been a better option last year.

As a junior in college, Williams did it all. He ranked second nationally in usage rate and led the Boilermakers in assists — as a center. He put the ball in the basket in a variety of ways.

He was Purdue’s main guy. Everything the Boilermakers ran, Williams was a focal point in the design. He was a First Team All-Big Ten selection. He averaged 15.5 points, 9.1 rebounds, and 2.3 assists per game.

Williams decided to return to Purdue for his senior year, despite his value being at an all-time high following his impressive junior campaign. What happened next? Well, Purdue showcased the future fifth-overall pick in Jaden Ivey and gave the 7’ 4” Zach Edey a bigger role. Therefore, Williams was pushed to the backburner.

As a senior, Williams was relegated to the bench, only playing 20.1 minutes a game. His numbers dropped to 12.0 points and 7.2 rebounds per contest. On the bright side, Williams did average 3.0 assists in more of a point-center role. He also won the league’s Sixth Man of the Year award and made Third Team All-Big Ten.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/6/26/23183011/everything-you-need-to-know-about-trevion-williams-boston-celtics-summer-league

 

[sezwho]

Honestly, I kinda wonder if college basketball is going the way of computers. AKA nba teams think college actually hurts a players development and they'd rather develop them in the NBA. Kinda how computer nerds don't need college degrees, they get recruited right out of HS so they don't get corrupted.

This sounds even more 80s that’s staying in school to get drafted better . As a computer nerd myself, amongst other nerdery of course, I’d like to encourage other future technologist to stay in school and so would most(all?) of their future employers.

Carry on.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Also the kid Trevion Williams just invited to play in Vegas for Boston didn't do himself any favors by going back to Purdue. G-League would have been a better option last year.

As a junior in college, Williams did it all. He ranked second nationally in usage rate and led the Boilermakers in assists — as a center. He put the ball in the basket in a variety of ways.

He was Purdue’s main guy. Everything the Boilermakers ran, Williams was a focal point in the design. He was a First Team All-Big Ten selection. He averaged 15.5 points, 9.1 rebounds, and 2.3 assists per game.

Williams decided to return to Purdue for his senior year, despite his value being at an all-time high following his impressive junior campaign. What happened next? Well, Purdue showcased the future fifth-overall pick in Jaden Ivey and gave the 7’ 4” Zach Edey a bigger role. Therefore, Williams was pushed to the backburner.

As a senior, Williams was relegated to the bench, only playing 20.1 minutes a game. His numbers dropped to 12.0 points and 7.2 rebounds per contest. On the bright side, Williams did average 3.0 assists in more of a point-center role. He also won the league’s Sixth Man of the Year award and made Third Team All-Big Ten.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/6/26/23183011/everything-you-need-to-know-about-trevion-williams-boston-celtics-summer-league

Williams is being discussed in other thread but I don’t think anyone viewed him as evenan NBA 2nd round pick despite his offensive prowess. Maybe if this were 25 years ago but guys like him and Cockburn, Dickinson have gone the way of dinosaurs in the league.

 

[Jimbodandy]

"Got beaten out for minutes by a guy at his position" is a glowing endorsement of a tweener with a mostly anachronistic skillset and a history of weight problems.

 

[benhogan]

Williams is being discussed in other thread but I don’t think anyone viewed him as evenan NBA 2nd round pick despite his offensive prowess. Maybe if this were 25 years ago but guys like him and Cockburn, Dickinson have gone the way of dinosaurs in the league.

He topped out his Jr. year. Going from 1st team All BIG10 to non-starter his Sr. year for Purdue didn't help. He could have started his overseas career a year earlier

 

[HomeRunBaker]

He topped out his Jr. year. Going from 1st team All BIG10 to non-starter his Sr. year for Purdue didn't help. He could have started his overseas career a year earlier

Yeah he def wasted a year of earnings. I wouldn’t really call him a “non-starter” as that implies that he was benched…..he was still their #1 option and often closer in his 20mpg opposed to 25 bc Edey had shown to be unstoppable in many matchups.

 

[joe dokes]

Honest though they may be, these are some of the most lukewarm quotes from a college coach about his just-drafted player:.
Celtics rookie JD Davison eager to learn from his new teammates - The Boston Globe

Crimson Tide coach Nate Oats said in a telephone interview Tuesday that it was clear at the start of the season that Davison intended to go on to the NBA, no matter how his freshman year unfolded.
“It was disappointing to see him drop [in the draft],” Oats said. “He didn’t have the best year, to be honest. It’s the first time in his life he’s actually had to compete for minutes and bring it every day. But he’s got a bunch of upside. He’s super athletic.”
..........................................

Oats said that during the pre-draft process, several NBA teams called with questions about why Davison was so quiet.
......................................................................................................................................................................
“I’ll be interested to see how much he opens up as he gets to know the [Celtics] coaches and the team,” Oats said. “Until you get to know him he’s super quiet, and even once you do get to know him he still doesn’t speak up enough, in my opinion. As a point guard he’s going to have to learn how to speak up a little more.”
Oats said that Davison has excellent vision as a passer, but that his ball-handling needs refining. Sometimes, Oats said, defenders flustered Davison during his dribble, leading to errant passes.
But Oats added that Davison’s athleticism and physical gifts are impossible to ignore. He called his vertical leap “ridiculous,” and said that his dunks tended to be spectacular.
Oats recalled one sequence in a game against Houston when Davison had an acrobatic putback dunk that was followed by a similarly mesmerizing blocked shot. Davison was never scared of a big moment, Oats said.
And although Davison is still learning how to play elite defense, his athleticism at least gives him the necessary tools.
“He needs to show that he wants to be a great defender,” Oats said. “If him getting on the floor is dependent on him being a good defender, my guess is he’ll figure that out. Being in the same organization as Marcus Smart is a good thing for him.”

 

[BigSoxFan]

Honest though they may be, these are some of the most lukewarm quotes from a college coach about his just-drafted player:.
Celtics rookie JD Davison eager to learn from his new teammates - The Boston Globe

Honestly, I was kind of encouraged by it. Oats clearly was frustrated by Davison but much of these issues appear to be correctable. Seems like a good “sink or swim” candidate. If he brings the effort and commitment, he might make it. If he doesn’t, he’ll wash out quickly. Basically the complete opposite of a guy like Madar who seemingly would run through a brick wall to make it in the NBA but who may just not have the physical attributes to make it.

 

[TripleOT]

The critique of JD sounds somewhat like what was said about Jaylen Brown — very athletic, quiet, troubled handle, etc.

I really like this pick. He’s in the perfect spot to learn NBA defense, and to learn how to play PG. Zero downside and huge upside.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The critique of JD sounds somewhat like what was said about Jaylen Brown — very athletic, quiet, troubled handle, etc.

I really like this pick. He’s in the perfect spot to learn NBA defense, and to learn how to play PG. Zero downside and huge upside.

I mean except Jaylen was really good and a consensus top 5 pick. It's like how everyone compares every chubby dude to Luka now...

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I mean except Jaylen was really good and a consensus top 5 pick. It's like how everyone compares every chubby dude to Luka now...

I wonder who replaces the Jimmy Butler role as "player who actually took a leap at 25+" in a few years when Butler is gone.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I wonder who replaces the Jimmy Butler role as "player who actually took a leap at 25+" in a few years when Butler is gone.

Wiggins?

 

[JM3]

Wiggins?

The weird thing is, by most standard metrics, he had the worst season of his career since his rookie year this year, so I doubt Butler comparisons will happen.

Going from a failed potential star to an elite 3 & d wing is a pretty impressive transition in its own right, though.

 

[BigSoxFan]

The weird thing is, by most standard metrics, he had the worst season of his career since his rookie year this year, so I doubt Butler comparisons will happen.

Going from a failed potential star to an elite 3 & d wing is a pretty impressive transition in its own right, though.

Yeah, he changed his entire perception even if the advanced stats don’t back it up. Was originally supposed to be the salary match in that deal and he turned out to be the prize (although that could potentially change). Just a perfect fir in GS.

 

[JM3]

Yeah, he changed his entire perception even if the advanced stats don’t back it up. Was originally supposed to be the salary match in that deal and he turned out to be the prize (although that could potentially change). Just a perfect fir in GS.

I meant worst by standard stats. It was a pretty good season by most advanced stats & a big jump in 3%.

But yeah he was supposed to be a salary dump. I can only assume the Wolves will feel similarly silly about the Gobert deal.