Jayson Tatum's Rise to the Top
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It’s very strange behavior.
Not to sound like a dick, but it’s inarguable that Tatum is on an ATG path. Regular season accolades, insane playoff resume, multiple signature monster games, the most points in a game 7, etc etc.
As for the comment making fun of the Revis comparison, he has one of the best ISO defensive seasons in recent memory, and everyone knows the kind of team defender he is. Since the 21-22 season referenced below, teams just don’t go at him.
View: https://twitter.com/lissmx14/status/1557103738845859842
I've been assured that he is no Devin Booker defenseively....
Kidding aside, what made the 2024 champs the best is they had a defensive gear in the fourth quarter that no one had an answer to - not Luka, not anyone. Tatum is a massive part of that, and will continue to be whether people here or elsewhere really realize it.
Kidding aside, what made the 2024 champs the best is they had a defensive gear in the fourth quarter that no one had an answer to - not Luka, not anyone. Tatum is a massive part of that, and will continue to be whether people here or elsewhere really realize it.
I'm loving the content but I need a cite of anyone here seriously questioning Tatum's value.
It seems like that debate is taking place in the margins of the dark part of the Internet amongst people/bots that have few other purposes in life.
It seems like that debate is taking place in the margins of the dark part of the Internet amongst people/bots that have few other purposes in life.
The shooting percentages were terrible though, and can't just be overlooked. Anthony Edwards put up similar offensive numbers in the western conference finals against Dallas - 25/9/8, and also shot terrible, but better than Tatum (.539 TS% for Ant, .505 TS% for Tatum). Ant is universally panned in here for having an absolute terrible conference finals.
I get it though. Boston won, Minnesota did not. Wonder if the Ant narrative would be similar to the Tatum one if Minnesota beat Dallas
Playmaking is a large part of offense, and Tatum was consistently terrific there for the playoffs. Ant is still a subpar playmaker and even less so in the conference finals.
Agreed—-and his choice was defended around here including the preposterous claim Booker was a better defensive fit.
I agree Booker shot well and that is a reason one can defend the choice—I’m talking about the people who cited defense and non shooting factors. It just is not so…
Sorry, is there an argument that Jayson Tatum’s defense and evaluation of it is not relevant in the Jayson Tatum thread?
Nerd Sesh guys: Carson is decent (Tatum top10) but Logan is dreadful (but is Herd's nephew)
While I bashed Timpf earlier, in fairness he was the first national guy to call Tatum the best perimeter defender in the NBA 2 seasons ago.
Thanks for posting, the funny part is JT's defense goes even further than that.
Tatum makes everyone on the floor better defensively since his flexibility to guard 1-5 (see MAVs in the Finals) lets his teammates guard up/down & match-up effectively.
it's nothing new
Is tatum switchable 1-5? i feel like he’s solid 2-4, 5s are credible but below average, and he’s not a good pg defender.
Which part of the above is wrong, aside from "totally immune to matchups?"
You just listed a number of reasonable (while open to argument) opinions, and then acted like they were obviously false, with no evidence, to dunk on a strawman Boston sports fan in your head.
The only bad look here is your laziness.
Yeah, we'll never get a straight answer for the Tatum double DNP. Coach Steve vacillated between role, KD-back, 40-minutes, Booker MVP, etc...AND asking why our "kid" isn't playing comes off as an overbearing parent (to some).
Years ago I bitched about Nick Nurse excessively playing Kemba (while Butler checked out) in the Elam-ending All-Star game.
While playing minutes in the Olympics months away from the season is completely different I guess we can breathe a sigh of relief that Tatum, Jrue, White & JB finished the summer season unharmed with plenty of motivation.
Tatum has the receipts. Off the top of my head, in the past he shut down mighty mouses like a red-hot Trae Young (when Smart couldn't).
With White & Jrue now in the backcourt (and Brown's on-ball strength) Tatum doesn't get the assignment often, but when switched on to ball handlers/PGs Tatum corrals them.
Score-first PGs like Jalen Brunson or Dame aren't calling for Tatum's man to set a screen to ISO & cook Tatum since that will lead to a challenged mid-range jumper.
He’s definitely switchable 1-5, but that’s different than primarily defending guys. I’d rather him not chase around guards or bang with the post playing centers much, but he’s shown the ability to do both, especially guards, usually in the 4th quarter of games.
I’d say his biggest weakness/challenge defensively is movement shooters, he can get stuck on screens. That makes sense though, he’s a big dude lol.
I’d say his biggest weakness/challenge defensively is movement shooters, he can get stuck on screens. That makes sense though, he’s a big dude lol.
In addition to guarding Trae in the playoffs, he also did a good job on SGA last year.
I love this for Tatum. Obviously, he's got money coming out of his ears, and sometimes these kinds of events are just ego-building, but I genuinely believe Tatum cares about his roots and giving back and just seems so genuine:
View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzell/status/1826349859546575084
View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzell/status/1826349859546575084
Adam Sandler being so well liked and respected in the nba community is so cool to me lol. Related to what he’s talking about, I think the correction from the media with Tatum starts soon.
Hoopshype recently ranked him as the top SF in the league again, which I’m guessing he’s still going to be ranked 6th or 7th with most of the player rankings from the various sites, which usually drop over the next few weeks.
View: https://twitter.com/danield1214/status/1828463402278068583
Hoopshype recently ranked him as the top SF in the league again, which I’m guessing he’s still going to be ranked 6th or 7th with most of the player rankings from the various sites, which usually drop over the next few weeks.
View: https://twitter.com/danield1214/status/1828463402278068583
The Netflix docuseries is coming out in October.
The HBO docuseries on the history of the Celtics and 2023 season comes out next April.
I think it's fair to call him a below average defender against centers (no chance against the likes of Embiid and Jokic, and other offensively skilled centers will occasionally get him in trouble), but against some teams that's good enough. The likes of Gafford/Lively couldn't bully him for easy points, and he largely kept Myles Turner and Evan Mobley in check. I think he's perfectly fine against point guards - he had some good moments this past year against Kyrie, Brunson and SGA. He's never going to play the type of aggressive on-ball defense that looks great (Jaylen and Jrue are excellent at this), but he's generally pretty good at staying in front of quicker players, not leaving his feet, and still contesting with his length. Being switchable 1-5 doesn't have to mean he's capable of above average defense against everyone, if he can be solid against 95% of the league that's good enough.
He's never making an all-defense team because with him it's more about not getting out of position and than imposing his will on other players (and he'll never get big block/steal numbers), but his defensive versatility and intelligence were every bit as important in the finals as Brown and Holiday's aggressive 1v1 defense against Luka and Kyrie.
What do you think switchable means? He did a better job of shutting down the lob attack of the Mavs than Rudy Gobert because he couldn't be peeled off as easily because... he could switch onto Kyrie or Luka. There are not a lot of centers that could have a field day with Tatum if he caught in the post with them and most of the ones that could don't have the means of getting the ball in the post when Tatum is guarding them. He is not going to be an imposing force in help defense in the lane but one on one not many centers can do much of anything when Tatum is switched onto them.
Basically he is good at guarding centers but he isn't a defensive center in a team defense scheme.
Jared Weiss, Celtics beat reporter for the Athletic, has a great article up on the Tatum Olympics business, with extended quotes from conversations he had with both Tatum and Holiday.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5729821/2024/08/29/jayson-tatum-team-usa-benching-boston-celtics?source=user-shared-article
(Anyone unable to read it, DM me your email address and I'll send you a 30-day guest pass)
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“It’s one of those things where there’s been so much talk and debate,” Tatum said. “There was a period of is he a superstar or not? Then it was a big debate, like, is he championship ready now? Then it’s like how could he not get in the (Olympics)? I’m like, I just won a championship, it’s the summertime, it might be nice to have a little break where you don’t turn on ESPN and they’re talking about you. But I guess this is part of it, and that may be the level that I’ve reached now in my career.”
“It was a lot. In the age of social media, you see everything,” Tatum said during a phone call. “You see all the tweets and the people on the podcasts and people on TV giving their opinion on whether they thought it was a good decision or it was an outrageous decision or whatever. Obviously, I wanted to contribute more, and I’ve never been in (this) situation. I started playing basketball at (age) 3 at the YMCA, and I’ve never not played, so it was different and it was challenging.”
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“I wasn’t moping around. I didn’t have an attitude. I wasn’t angry at the world,” Tatum said. “I stayed ready and did what was asked of me and I won a gold medal, right?”
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Beyond the rotation limitations, there was another reason for Tatum to get knocked down the depth chart. After shooting lights out in the second half of the regular season, he has been on the worst cold streak of his career since the playoffs began.
“I know I didn’t make a jump shot when I was with Team USA. I don’t know, law of averages,” Tatum said. “It’s a weird rhythm thing being with Team USA; you never exactly know when you’re gonna get the ball. But that’s part of it. You sign up for that because I’ve done it before (at the Tokyo Games).”
Tatum and those around him have maintained he is not injured and hasn’t lost confidence in his shot. Though he shot 28.3 percent from deep in the playoffs and missed every jumper he took while on Team USA, he said he’s been playing basketball long enough that he’s not worried about getting back on track by October.
“I have two (gold medals) now, I have a championship, and everything doesn’t necessarily go the way you expect it to go, right?” Tatum said. “I’ve learned to be like, ‘OK, that’s a part of it.’ You move on, and I’m getting ready to enjoy the last little weeks I have before the season starts and get ready for another season.”
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Mature and level headed as always.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5729821/2024/08/29/jayson-tatum-team-usa-benching-boston-celtics?source=user-shared-article
(Anyone unable to read it, DM me your email address and I'll send you a 30-day guest pass)
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“It’s one of those things where there’s been so much talk and debate,” Tatum said. “There was a period of is he a superstar or not? Then it was a big debate, like, is he championship ready now? Then it’s like how could he not get in the (Olympics)? I’m like, I just won a championship, it’s the summertime, it might be nice to have a little break where you don’t turn on ESPN and they’re talking about you. But I guess this is part of it, and that may be the level that I’ve reached now in my career.”
“It was a lot. In the age of social media, you see everything,” Tatum said during a phone call. “You see all the tweets and the people on the podcasts and people on TV giving their opinion on whether they thought it was a good decision or it was an outrageous decision or whatever. Obviously, I wanted to contribute more, and I’ve never been in (this) situation. I started playing basketball at (age) 3 at the YMCA, and I’ve never not played, so it was different and it was challenging.”
...
“I wasn’t moping around. I didn’t have an attitude. I wasn’t angry at the world,” Tatum said. “I stayed ready and did what was asked of me and I won a gold medal, right?”
...
Beyond the rotation limitations, there was another reason for Tatum to get knocked down the depth chart. After shooting lights out in the second half of the regular season, he has been on the worst cold streak of his career since the playoffs began.
“I know I didn’t make a jump shot when I was with Team USA. I don’t know, law of averages,” Tatum said. “It’s a weird rhythm thing being with Team USA; you never exactly know when you’re gonna get the ball. But that’s part of it. You sign up for that because I’ve done it before (at the Tokyo Games).”
Tatum and those around him have maintained he is not injured and hasn’t lost confidence in his shot. Though he shot 28.3 percent from deep in the playoffs and missed every jumper he took while on Team USA, he said he’s been playing basketball long enough that he’s not worried about getting back on track by October.
“I have two (gold medals) now, I have a championship, and everything doesn’t necessarily go the way you expect it to go, right?” Tatum said. “I’ve learned to be like, ‘OK, that’s a part of it.’ You move on, and I’m getting ready to enjoy the last little weeks I have before the season starts and get ready for another season.”
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Mature and level headed as always.
"Can't cover Embiid or Jokic very well" is not the bar for whether a guy is switchable at the 5. If that were the case, then nobody in the league can cover the 5.
Nobody is saying that Tatum is Bill Russell at the 5 and Gary Payton against 1s. He is, however, unusually switchable 1-5 without being in a hole the vast majority of the time. Super fast 1s and behemoth, skilled 5s are problems for everyone in the league. What are we doing here?
I'm setting this to start where he begins breaking down Tatum's game but if you care about the ranking criteria he used you can jump back a few minutes and listen.
If you haven't been following his top 25, the players that are still left that he'll have ranked higher than Tatum are AD at #6 (second half of this video), and then Luka, Joker, Giannis, SGA, and Ant in some order yet to be released.
View: https://youtu.be/wi2gzApNvxM?t=173
If you haven't been following his top 25, the players that are still left that he'll have ranked higher than Tatum are AD at #6 (second half of this video), and then Luka, Joker, Giannis, SGA, and Ant in some order yet to be released.
View: https://youtu.be/wi2gzApNvxM?t=173
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Timpf's NBA ranking vids have been posted & discussed here
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/2024-nba-general-offseason-thread.43045/page-30
He's just the sweetest superstar on the planet. Every grandma's dream. I love how much he loves being a dad.
View: https://twitter.com/CBSMornings/status/1833512109608476711
View: https://twitter.com/CBSMornings/status/1833512109608476711
Article about JT's shooting here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/9/13/24242663/can-jayson-tatum-still-shoot-boston-celtics-joe-mazzulla-olympics
Article is fine but for our perspective, the important part is that the author put together clips of JT's 3Ps from 2020, 2022, and 2024 to see if there were any changes to his form.
I've only watched it once and like the author, I don't see any major differences. His release might be a touch higher. But y'all I'm sure have better eyes than I do.
Article is fine but for our perspective, the important part is that the author put together clips of JT's 3Ps from 2020, 2022, and 2024 to see if there were any changes to his form.
I've only watched it once and like the author, I don't see any major differences. His release might be a touch higher. But y'all I'm sure have better eyes than I do.
Jake is my buddy, he’s a good basketball mind.
We’ve talked about Tatum’s shooting, and he falls on the side of it being mostly variance. I lean that way too, but it felt like he started turning down good looks later in the playoffs, so I’m really interested to see how he shoots it coming out of the gates.
We’ve talked about Tatum’s shooting, and he falls on the side of it being mostly variance. I lean that way too, but it felt like he started turning down good looks later in the playoffs, so I’m really interested to see how he shoots it coming out of the gates.
I didn't think he was turning down good looks in the playoffs, he still shot a ton, but maybe I'm just remembering the good parts of the playoff run. He was definitely turning down good looks in the Olympics, but that was absolutely a small sample (I believe he was 0-16 on jump shots with the national team, which is like 2 regular season games worth of jump shots for him). He clearly lost confidence by that point, I believe in no small part because of the benching (thanks a lot Kerr, you fucking backpack). I'm not concerned at all right now, and I'll try to remember that when he gets off to his typical slow start (his TS% in October is .568, the lowest of any regular season month of his career).
The very last line by Tatum was perhaps the best one.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HhCoN0OWmE
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HhCoN0OWmE
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Should have asked him if he plans to switch things up and leave Tatum wide open this time.
Full trailer:
View: https://twitter.com/netflix/status/1836072718917075277
Feels like this is mostly gonna be the Lebron show featuring Ant and Jimmy, with Tatum/Sabonis getting a few cuts here and there. Fine with me.
View: https://twitter.com/netflix/status/1836072718917075277
Feels like this is mostly gonna be the Lebron show featuring Ant and Jimmy, with Tatum/Sabonis getting a few cuts here and there. Fine with me.
