Jayson Tatum Needs His Own Thread

luqin

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
982
I was going to post this in the Brown/Tatum thread, but it's locked.

Here is his dunk on LeBron:


When he catches the ball, he adjusts his feet so they are pointed at the rim, and he immediately cuts directly to the basket. He picked that up from Kobe's video and incorporated it into his game while playing in the Eastern Conference Finals. As good as he is right now, I can't wait to see how good he is after an offseason of improvement.

Also, that dunk needed to be shown.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
2,910
New York City
It's weird because it was a loss, but I think this was the most impressed I've been with Tatum all season, and that says a lot. This was the first game where he clearly realized at a certain point he had to put the team on his back and almost single-handedly willed the team to a victory. He's still a rookie so he couldn't quite make it happen, but that type of performance is something that you really only see out of perennial All-Star type players which, at this point, Tatum almost certainly will be. Just so excited to see his career play out.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,284
It's weird because it was a loss, but I think this was the most impressed I've been with Tatum all season, and that says a lot. This was the first game where he clearly realized at a certain point he had to put the team on his back and almost single-handedly willed the team to a victory. He's still a rookie so he couldn't quite make it happen, but that type of performance is something that you really only see out of perennial All-Star type players which, at this point, Tatum almost certainly will be. Just so excited to see his career play out.

Down in the 4th, don’t worry guys, I’m going to dunk on LBJ and then bury a 3. Kid is awesome. I hope he wants to be as great as Kobe and Lebron, because he has the ability.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
31,086
God help the NBA after this kid adds 10-15 pounds of muscle to that frame.

He’s awesome and I can’t wait to see him next year with a stronger body and a boatload more confidence. And some actual ref respect.
 

soxin6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
2,517
Huntington Beach, CA
Tatum is the primary reason that the Celtics didn't fall apart this season. After Kyrie went down, it would have been easy for the team to pack it in and bow out in the first round of the playoffs. Watching Tatum perform this post season was magical and he helped the team get to game 7 of the ECF. Sky is the limit for Tatum and I can't wait until next season.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,649
Waltham, MA
Also, while his D has been cited as a weak spot, we saw flashes of brilliance from him in the playoffs, not only in his ability to steal passes but also bodying up Lebron on occasion. With his great length, I could see him turning into a great defender if he he works hard on that part of his game.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
9,543
If the Celtics hit a couple of more threes and Tatum had dunked LeBron right out of Cleveland; man that would be electric.

Just an awesome showcase for Tatum. He ceiling for me right now is Kevin Durant and the only reason he won't win multiple scoring titles may be because his team's are so well-balanced.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
It's weird because it was a loss, but I think this was the most impressed I've been with Tatum all season, and that says a lot. This was the first game where he clearly realized at a certain point he had to put the team on his back and almost single-handedly willed the team to a victory. He's still a rookie so he couldn't quite make it happen, but that type of performance is something that you really only see out of perennial All-Star type players which, at this point, Tatum almost certainly will be. Just so excited to see his career play out.
Lebron had (friendly) words with Tatum after the game. LBJ recognizes what Tatum is and will be.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
It's weird because it was a loss, but I think this was the most impressed I've been with Tatum all season, and that says a lot. This was the first game where he clearly realized at a certain point he had to put the team on his back and almost single-handedly willed the team to a victory. He's still a rookie so he couldn't quite make it happen, but that type of performance is something that you really only see out of perennial All-Star type players which, at this point, Tatum almost certainly will be. Just so excited to see his career play out.
Would have liked to have seen him attempt more than 17 shots.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
Lebron (behind paywall):

“With Jayson, I just love everything about the kid — the way he plays the game, his demeanor, where he comes from, I know his parents,” James said. “I just know he’s just built for stardom. He’s built for success. And that’s both on and off the floor. Two guys (Tatum, Al Horford) right there … Boston is lucky to have them.”
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
21,627
Ainge identifying Tatum as the best player in the draft last year (and his quotes at the time make clear he did, IMO) pretty much should put to bed the questions about his drafting acumen---getting that call right is precisely what matters.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
This is the point where we need to be reminded that at 19, Tatum is far from a finished product.
Yep. There was some (somewhat true) talk after the draft that he wasn't physically ready for the league. I liken his rookie year to that of Patrice Bergeron, who was also productive despite some physical limitations that he later surpassed.
 

Dotrat

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 11, 2002
1,236
Morris County NJ
When I recall how poised he was throughout this playoff run and then remember that he’s just 19, I get goosebumps thinking about how good he’s going to be. Just an extraordinary combination of skill, smarts, and fearlessness.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
He’s going to be a mini Kevin Durant. Sweet j, handles, clearly going to be a great defender.
The crazy thing is that his frame can get a LOT stronger than Durant's can. He's a lot closer to Anthony Davis, build-wise. I think he also has a better BBIQ than Durant.

We talk about the playoffs being good for his development on offense, but he might have progressed even more on D. On and off ball he looked like a different player by the end of the series.

He's definitely grown to 6-9, and possibly 6-10.

At this point, the list of players I'd trade him for is AD.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,035
Also, while his D has been cited as a weak spot, we saw flashes of brilliance from him in the playoffs, not only in his ability to steal passes but also bodying up Lebron on occasion. With his great length, I could see him turning into a great defender if he he works hard on that part of his game.
The biggest reason for his D being a weak spot is that he needs another 10-15 pounds of muscle. He can be overpowered. That won’t happen in the future.
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
5,353
NYC
The crazy thing is that his frame can get a LOT stronger than Durant's can.
Better frame for muscle than KD, but KD has at least 5-6 inches of wingspan and standing reach on him; and that’s a big part of what makes KD KD. (When Bill Simmons asked him in one of their podcasts the minimum height he could be and still be an NBA player, he surprised him by saying 6’-6” or so: “I’m not fast and I’m not strong — so much of what I do is based around my length”).

I see flashes of KD, but also the incredible footwork of Kawhi, the rugged athleticism and fearlessness of Klay, etc. But of course he’ll be his own totally unique player. Super-stoked to see him develop over the next 3-4 years.
 
Last edited:

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,591
What would people’s offseason program look like for Tatum? What would be your prioritized list of things for him to work on?

1. Add strength
2. Work on a floater (and other close to the basket on a drive moves) that will enable him to score withoutt getting blocked or a charge. Just one move could really add a dimension for him.

Do these first two he’s in a great place. For good measure:

3. Quick gather/off the dribble 3pt point shooting: Step backs, off screens, over shorter players, etc.

I debated: sharing the ball off the drive but he improved so much in that area towards the end of the season I think it’ll just come with playing. The above require specific off-court work for improvement.
 
Last edited:

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,158
Saint Paul, MN
He need to lose the throwing his hands up in the air and looking for the call everytime he gets touched though. And if that is the worst thing I can say about him, then, well...
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
34,106
He’s an alpha. Period.
Yes.

There was article posted around here last year (maybe by 538) about how teams need a player with a certain level of WAR (?) and we had discussions about how IT4 wasn’t there but adding Hayward would get us 2 potentially close, etc.

There were a bunch of other caveats. Just wondering, with growth we saw from Tatum and Brown, etc where we might fit now.

Anyone remember that?
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
2,822
Palo Alto
The crazy thing is that his frame can get a LOT stronger than Durant's can. He's a lot closer to Anthony Davis, build-wise. I think he also has a better BBIQ than Durant.

We talk about the playoffs being good for his development on offense, but he might have progressed even more on D. On and off ball he looked like a different player by the end of the series.

He's definitely grown to 6-9, and possibly 6-10.

At this point, the list of players I'd trade him for is AD.
Where did you see that he's grown? 6'10 really? That would be amazing.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,518
Here
I would not trade him for anyone, AD included. I think Tatum is a 20 year old Kevin Durant, but he’ll get a bit bigger than him. Perennial MVP candidate. Celtic for life, please.

Brown, however, I think you do look to move as part of a deal for a star, if possible. He’s a guy worth maxing, if forced, but not someone you’d be thrilled to do it for.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
I would not trade him for anyone, AD included. I think Tatum is a 20 year old Kevin Durant, but he’ll get a bit bigger than him. Perennial MVP candidate. Celtic for life, please.

Brown, however, I think you do look to move as part of a deal for a star, if possible. He’s a guy worth maxing, if forced, but not someone you’d be thrilled to do it for.
Brown isn't a finished product yet, either. I don't think he's untouchable, but his improvement curve has been good enough that you don't want to sell low.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
2,910
New York City
Yes.

There was article posted around here last year (maybe by 538) about how teams need a player with a certain level of WAR (?) and we had discussions about how IT4 wasn’t there but adding Hayward would get us 2 potentially close, etc.

There were a bunch of other caveats. Just wondering, with growth we saw from Tatum and Brown, etc where we might fit now.

Anyone remember that?
Yes, it was this: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-the-celtics-have-enough-star-power-to-win-a-title-not-yet/. Not sure where Tatum fits in given that the statistic Nate Silver used seems to be one of his own creation.

It does, however, contain this amazing quote apropos to this thread:

If there’s one Celtics move that looks bad in retrospect, it isn’t necessarily trying and failing to acquire Butler or George, it’s trading the No. 1 draft pick for Philadelphia’s No. 3 pick, with which they chose Tatum. While Tatum has a fairly promising projection, he doesn’t have the upside of No. 1 pick Markelle Fultz, whose comparables include players such as Harden, Westbrook and Wall. The trade might have made sense for a team that already had its stars in place and wanted to develop complementary players around them, but the Celtics have plenty of complementary players and are short on stars.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,303
538's sports analysis has really been no better than that found on most any other sports related blog. And, in one case (the Patriots lack of fumbles), actually far worse. Nate Silver is one of those examples of why it's often better to be lucky than good.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
10,229
St. Louis, MO
538's sports analysis has really been no better than that found on most any other sports related blog. And, in one case (the Patriots lack of fumbles), actually far worse. Nate Silver is one of those examples of why it's often better to be lucky than good.
The 2016 election cost him massive credibility also.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
The 2016 election cost him massive credibility also.
The Republican primary was far worse for him, because he moved into qualitative analysis, made sweeping pronouncements, and was proven completely wrong within a couple months. I stopped listening to anything he said after that: mental models that only work when everything stays the same are anti-knowledge.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
Sure, back to Tatum. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much talking about his future eases the pain of last night.
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
5,353
NYC
The Tatum Law: "as online discussion of a lanky young player grows longer, the estimated height of that player approaches seven foot."
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
38,263
deep inside Guido territory
What would people’s offseason program look like for Tatum? What would be your prioritized list of things for him to work on?

1. Add strength
2. Work on a floater (and other close to the basket on a drive moves) that will enable him to score withoutt getting blocked or a charge. Just one move could really add a dimension for him.

Do these first two he’s in a great place. For good measure:

3. Quick gather/off the dribble 3pt point shooting: Step backs, off screens, over shorter players, etc.

I debated: sharing the ball off the drive but he improved so much in that area towards the end of the season I think it’ll just come with playing. The above require specific off-court work for improvement.
Improving hand strength. Too many times he lost the ball going to the rim.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
34,818
What would people’s offseason program look like for Tatum? What would be your prioritized list of things for him to work on?

1. Add strength
2. Work on a floater (and other close to the basket on a drive moves) that will enable him to score withoutt getting blocked or a charge. Just one move could really add a dimension for him.

Do these first two he’s in a great place. For good measure:

3. Quick gather/off the dribble 3pt point shooting: Step backs, off screens, over shorter players, etc.

I debated: sharing the ball off the drive but he improved so much in that area towards the end of the season I think it’ll just come with playing. The above require specific off-court work for improvement.
Re: #2 above, there are so many subtle little moves that he can and will learn, given his already exception footwork, that will have him living at the line and scoring more efficiently at the rim.

Just a few examples:
  • Work in a lefty finish—the long reach with the right is a nifty move, but it’s blockable.
  • More hesitations/changes of speed and direction. He’s already good at this for a rookie. The straight line drive from the 3pt line is going to be bottled up more often than not against good defenses.
  • Something as simple as taking an extra dribble to get closer to the rim. The long extension referenced above is very limiting in terms of what he can do when it’s time to release the shot. He’s fully committed at that point. Get a little closer to the rim, delay your intentions a little longer, combine that extra dribble with a hesitation, and the defender is toast.
  • Pump fakes, but this probably the easiest. He flashed one on Nance that had him jumping out of his shoes. He’s so good from the mid-range and out that guys will have no choice but to commit. When he tightens up his first move attacking closeouts at the 3 point line he’s going to be devastating. Right now he tends to go a little bit too wide with the dribble after the pump game, though his late side step three last night in that situation was a beauty. Could stand to be more direct in those situations overall though, with a more purposeful first dribble.
He has so many tools already. Crazy high ceiling as an uber-efficient alpha scorer.
 
Last edited:

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
9,575
Somewhere
I would like to see Tatum improve his first step. If he can consistently beat his defender off the dribble he will be absolutely deadly.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
3,096
The crazy thing is that his frame can get a LOT stronger than Durant's can. He's a lot closer to Anthony Davis, build-wise. I think he also has a better BBIQ than Durant.

We talk about the playoffs being good for his development on offense, but he might have progressed even more on D. On and off ball he looked like a different player by the end of the series.

He's definitely grown to 6-9, and possibly 6-10.

At this point, the list of players I'd trade him for is AD.
Here's Tatum standing next to Jeff Green last night.thumbnail_IMG_0273.jpg

Take out Uncle Jeffs hair and they're approximately the same height assuming the angle isn't way off. So probably 6'9"ish.

As disappointing as last night was, happy for Jeff Green. Everyone says he's a great dude and he stepped up the last two games when it counted. Good for him.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
6,230
Santa Monica
Let's not go on this tangent. I don't want V&N creeping where it doesn't belong.
I saw "V&N" used on the Hanley thread, what does it mean?
I'm guessing venom and narcissism but would appreciate clarity. Thanks


Love Tatum for all the reasons stated above. He may just turn out to be the greatest Duke player of all time.

Three things Tatum could focus on this summer:
1.Strength training. If he has the same sort of physical growth that Jaylen Brown experienced last summer Tatum will be a beast.
2. Just keep refining his 3-pt stroke. SSS- but it went a little astray in playoffs (32.4%)
3. Handle. A tighter handle would give him more confidence to take the ball ISO in late/tight situations.
 
Last edited: