Jayson Tatum 2021-22: Leap Year

luckiestman

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Tatum is awesome. What is the need to downplay it. He is 23 and keeps getting better. Giannis, Luka, Tatum is not a crazy top 3 in a couple years.
 

Kliq

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This is great to see. My personal biggest issue with Tatum was how he didn't seem to process things quick enough to exploit double-teams and guys cheating off their man to help on him. He didn't innately have that instinct to know where he is going to pass the ball right as he was catching it. A lot of players DON'T have this skill coming into the league; and as they mature into becoming superstars its something they need to develop. It took Durant a while, Giannis finally unlocked it last season, and Tatum looks to be well on his way.

This is somewhat related, but often I think Tatum doesn't make the same kind of quick, decisive actions when he has a mismatch or even an open look. A lot of the time the most optimal play would be to just catch and shoot over a lunging defender, but instead he holds the ball, puts it on the floor a few times, and then shoots. Like he is more comfortable doing a hesi and then shooting than he is just letting it fly, or immediately blowing past a defender on a close-out. I thought during the first few minutes of the overtime last night those bad habits started to show up again, but thankfully it didn't cost them.
 

Kliq

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That's fine Giannis will be there.

I forgot to add one more thing to the Tatum equation: Infrastructure/Mindset
Tatum is a specific class of player in that he is already close to near-All-NBA level and would project to get better over the next few years. Tatum isn't Top 3 right now, but it's not crazy to see him leaping ahead of his peers and being a legit MVP candidate next season. But there is plenty of competition for those spots; if you pencil in Gianis and Luka, that would theoretically mean one space for Tatum to beat out: Jokic, Curry, LeBron, Durant, Harden, Dame, Embiid, Kawhi, as well as potential leaps from Trae, Ball, Zion, etc.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's not crazy talk. Doesn't mean that it's likely, but it's not crazy.

If you can think of Durant as a top 3 guy, imagining Tatum as a top 3 guy shouldn't be hard.
 

DGreenwood

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...there is plenty of competition for those spots; if you pencil in Gianis and Luka, that would theoretically mean one space for Tatum to beat out: Jokic, Curry, LeBron, Durant, Harden, Dame, Embiid, Kawhi, as well as potential leaps from Trae, Ball, Zion, etc.
Yeah, I think Jokic was the one glaring omission from the Tatum/Giannis/Luka top three projection for 18 months from now. I think a lot of those other players will be in age related decline by then. Embiid isn't that old but doesn't seem like he'll age well (although 18 months might be a little premature for his decline). It's hard to imagine any of those younger players taking a leap past Tatum except maybe Zion (but I wouldn't bet on that).
 

benhogan

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Tatum is a specific class of player in that he is already close to near-All-NBA level and would project to get better over the next few years. Tatum isn't Top 3 right now, but it's not crazy to see him leaping ahead of his peers and being a legit MVP candidate next season. But there is plenty of competition for those spots; if you pencil in Gianis and Luka, that would theoretically mean one space for Tatum to beat out: Jokic, Curry, LeBron, Durant, Harden, Dame, Embiid, Kawhi, as well as potential leaps from Trae, Ball, Zion, etc.
Definitely not top 3 right now.

Tatum is a "compounding machine" every time he learns something new it accents his other advanced skills. IE an uptick in passing will open up the floor more for his shot, an improved handle will lead to more layups, more physical strength will lead to more FTs, etc. He has Durant's offensive upside. BUT it's his wing defense that will really differentiate him and eventually make him a first-team All NBA player for numerous seasons

In 18mths, 25yr old Tatum will be starting his prime while some of the youngsters mentioned will be great but immature. Zion & Embiid, due to their body types will be injuries waiting to happen and Joker's D in the playoffs will be a negative. Tatum will have no negatives and be elite at every NBA skill by then IMO.

Betting against Tatum's development hasn't been a great idea so far
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's hard to imagine any of those younger players taking a leap past Tatum except maybe Zion (but I wouldn't bet on that).
Here's the NBA top 15 under 25: https://www.nba.com/news/top-15-players-under-age-25. In addition to JT, Luka, and Zion, they have Jokic, KAT, Simmons, Mitchell, Booker, JB, Bam, Murray, Ingram, Trae, Fox, and Morant. Seems to me that a lot of these guys are known quantities and while they get better, it doesn't seem likely that they'll make a leap in their games necessary to become a top-3 player. I personally think Morant has the best shot of that, although that's based mostly on reputation rather than watching him.

On a prior Celtics Beat podcast, Sean Grande was talking about how KAT had the physical tools to be a top-3 player but something seems to be missing.

And it would be really funny to see Ben Simmons, after being traded by PHI, come back to the league and start to rain 3Ps.
 

DGreenwood

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Here's the NBA top 15 under 25: https://www.nba.com/news/top-15-players-under-age-25. In addition to JT, Luka, and Zion, they have Jokic, KAT, Simmons, Mitchell, Booker, JB, Bam, Murray, Ingram, Trae, Fox, and Morant. Seems to me that a lot of these guys are known quantities and while they get better, it doesn't seem likely that they'll make a leap in their games necessary to become a top-3 player. I personally think Morant has the best shot of that, although that's based mostly on reputation rather than watching him.

On a prior Celtics Beat podcast, Sean Grande was talking about how KAT had the physical tools to be a top-3 player but something seems to be missing.

And it would be really funny to see Ben Simmons, after being traded by PHI, come back to the league and start to rain 3Ps.
Morant was the other player younger than Tatum that I considered mentioning along with Zion. Ultimately I decided only to mention Zion but I can see the case for Morant.
 

Kliq

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Morant was the other player younger than Tatum that I considered mentioning along with Zion. Ultimately I decided only to mention Zion but I can see the case for Morant.
I shamefully forgot about Morant as well. Morant might very well be an All-NBA guy in 2022-2023.
 

Cesar Crespo

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There are also guys that could leap frog Tatum but it's probably not going to be in 18 months. Ball, Cade, Edwards. They also may not. Player development is weird.

It's 4 games but if Miles Bridges continues his play, he's proof of this. I've always liked him and thought he'd be a good player. Right now, he's looking like a max contract. No, he's not leap frogging Tatum. Just I doubt anyone predicted this (assuming he keeps it up).

I mostly can't see Tatum in the top 3 in 18 months because I don't see that many players aging out, more so than I see players taking a leap over him. There are some players who we can predict to do this, but there may be a player or two we didn't predict to do it too. Or Maybe Tatum brings his playmaking to a Harden level and it's not a discussion. I don't see that happening but again, player development is weird.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Jimbodandy

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He could be an All-NBA guy this season, IMO. He's shooting 44% from 3 and averaging 35ppg and 8apg through 3 games. And then there's the other night vs. the Lakers. The highlight at the 1:30 mark of the video contained in the article is worth watching by itself.

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/ja-morant-lakers-highlights-video-01fjvm4zr2ck
He's a good example of a guy who can be an all NBA guy who probably can't ever be a top 3 player due to his size. Curry could do it because he's probably the best shooter ever. But it's damn hard for little guys to be top 3 players. West, Oscar, who else?
 

bigq

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He's a good example of a guy who can be an all NBA guy who probably can't ever be a top 3 player due to his size. Curry could do it because he's probably the best shooter ever. But it's damn hard for little guys to be top 3 players. West, Oscar, who else?
Iverson and Nash immediately come to mind.
 

Kliq

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He could be an All-NBA guy this season, IMO. He's shooting 44% from 3 and averaging 35ppg and 8apg through 3 games. And then there's the other night vs. the Lakers. The highlight at the 1:30 mark of the video contained in the article is worth watching by itself.

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/ja-morant-lakers-highlights-video-01fjvm4zr2ck
It wouldn't shock me if he makes it this season, but the thing with him is his jumper has been really poor so far in his career and has held him back.If he really is a 40% three point shooter now, than yeah, he will probably make it barring injury.

He's a good example of a guy who can be an all NBA guy who probably can't ever be a top 3 player due to his size. Curry could do it because he's probably the best shooter ever. But it's damn hard for little guys to be top 3 players. West, Oscar, who else?
The thing is the game has shifted so far in favor of smaller players it is possible more than ever for a smaller player to be one of the very best players in the NBA. West and Oscar really were not that small by their era; West was 6'3" when a lot of forwards were 6'5", plus he had crazy long arms. Oscar was 6'5" and was basically like the LeBron of the 1960s when it came to size and athleticism for a ball-handler.

Nash, Iverson, Isiah Thomas, CP3, Rose, Westbrook, Jason Kidd, Curry, Cousy would be all guys who would have had a case for Top 3 in the NBA at some point in their career as smaller players.
 

bigq

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I don't think either were top 3, MVP awards and all.

I'd argue Chris Paul is better than both.
Probably a discussion for a separate thread and you may be right however the year Iverson carried the Sixers to the finals on his back was a performance for the ages. Good arguments to be made that he was top three that season.
 

luckiestman

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Probably a discussion for a separate thread and you may be right however the year Iverson carried the Sixers to the finals on his back was a performance for the ages. Good arguments to be made that he was top three that season.
Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Garnett…it’s tough. I could see a case for AI as third, though I might not have him third.
 

Spelunker

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He's a good example of a guy who can be an all NBA guy who probably can't ever be a top 3 player due to his size. Curry could do it because he's probably the best shooter ever. But it's damn hard for little guys to be top 3 players. West, Oscar, who else?
I think Tatum being top-5 depends a lot on him being an off-ball defensive monster, constantly tipping balls and disrupting passing lanes. We've seen that in the past, but to my eye he hasn't quite gotten back there yet.

To your point, it's really hard for small folks to offer enough defensive value to match up with 2-way monsters like what we think Tatum can be.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Jimbodandy

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Yeah you can go decade by decade and find a smurf every 10 years or so who was arguably a top 3 guy that one year, maybe. If anything, that proves my point. Most of those guys mentioned above maybe were top 3 for one year and possibly not even.
 

Devizier

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I'd argue Chris Paul is better than both.
Chris Paul is definitely one of the only little guys with the defensive chops to crack the top three. Gary Payton was there for a while, although it didn't count as much when the top guys (i.e. Jordan until he retired, then Shaq w/the Lakers) were very far ahead of the field. Also, the Glove was kind of big for a PG.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Thank you. I only caught the last few minutes of Q4 plus OT. Holy crap so many open looks.
If you have LP, one of the joys is watching the full game replay (or some portion thereof) once its up. Its easy to fast forward etc.

Tatum dishing 5-6+ assists per game to players who have actually shown the ability to make open looks is kind of exciting in so many ways. And if the players actually hit those shots consistently, then they can do some pretty interesting things with Tatum/Brown/Richardson/Discount Schroder.
 

nighthob

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He's a good example of a guy who can be an all NBA guy who probably can't ever be a top 3 player due to his size. Curry could do it because he's probably the best shooter ever. But it's damn hard for little guys to be top 3 players. West, Oscar, who else?
Oscar was the proto-LeBron. At his size he was hardly little despite playing G.
 

bigq

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If you have LP, one of the joys is watching the full game replay (or some portion thereof) once its up. Its easy to fast forward etc.

Tatum dishing 5-6+ assists per game to players who have actually shown the ability to make open looks is kind of exciting in so many ways. And if the players actually hit those shots consistently, then they can do some pretty interesting things with Tatum/Brown/Richardson/Discount Schroder.
That is fun to do and I think I might give LP a try if I weren’t in the Boston market where black out restrictions apply. Maybe I should move back to San Francisco and sign up. :)
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That is fun to do and I think I might give LP a try if I weren’t in the Boston market where black out restrictions apply. Maybe I should move back to San Francisco and sign up. :)
Apologies. I forgot about the blackout. So stupid in 2021 but that new sports app sounds like you won't have to suffer long. Btw, everyone here is welcome to move to SF if you so choose.

That said, Jayson Tatum is not welcome as a new resident of this City. Ever (or at least during his playing career).
 

radsoxfan

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Tatum's D is.... BAD. What is going on? Last year was a weird year, COVID etc.

I thought he get beat a lot 1 on 1 during the Olympics too.

This year it's even worse. Too bulked up? Effort? Coaching?

D was supposed to be a strength and instead it's way below average. A lot of the excitement for defensive lineups this year had to do with building around an expected strength with Tatum and Brown on the wings. Unfortunately, they both are regressing as they shoulder more of the offensive load.

Tatum in particular has fallen off a cliff on D. Looks like the slope of a 36 year old with arthritic knees.
 

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HomeRunBaker

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Morant was the other player younger than Tatum that I considered mentioning along with Zion. Ultimately I decided only to mention Zion but I can see the case for Morant.
I would snap take Morant over Zion right now. Probably a toss-up with Tatum. There are a group of guys capable of reaching that level……I would include Tatum in that mix.
 

Jakarta

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Tatum's D is.... BAD. What is going on? Last year was a weird year, COVID etc.

I thought he get beat a lot 1 on 1 during the Olympics too.

This year it's even worse. Too bulked up? Effort? Coaching?

D was supposed to be a strength and instead it's way below average. A lot of the excitement for defensive lineups this year had to do with building around an expected strength with Tatum and Brown on the wings. Unfortunately, they both are regressing as they shoulder more of the offensive load.

Tatum in particular has fallen off a cliff on D. Looks like the slope of a 36 year old with arthritic knees.
Do you know if there a number of games into a season at which we might be able to reliably see if this is actually continuing this year, or if this is the model giving too much weight to post-COVID, bad D JT? I am obviously hopeful it’s the latter, but would love to know when the new season’s inputs are sufficient to offset any oddities from the prior year.
 

benhogan

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Tatum's D is.... BAD. What is going on? Last year was a weird year, COVID etc

Tatum in particular has fallen off a cliff on D. Looks like the slope of a 36 year old with arthritic knees.
I blame all the defensive woes on KEMBA.

Who knew arthritis was contagious?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Do you know if there a number of games into a season at which we might be able to reliably see if this is actually continuing this year, or if this is the model giving too much weight to post-COVID, bad D JT? I am obviously hopeful it’s the latter, but would love to know when the new season’s inputs are sufficient to offset any oddities from the prior year.
Generally speaking, the larger role one takes on offensively you are going to lose some defensively from conserving energy. I can’t think of a big scorer who hasn’t picked spots throughout the course of the game. These breaks will increase with age too so to expect 30 ppg on one end and lock down on every regular season possession on the other isn’t a realistic expectation.

It doesn’t help that Tatum doesn’t yet have his defensive role player to best allow those breaks to be hidden.
 

RorschachsMask

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Advanced defensive stats are notoriously unreliable. That said, we need the Tatum from two years ago on the defensive end.
 

benhogan

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Generally speaking, the larger role one takes on offensively you are going to lose some defensively from conserving energy. I can’t think of a big scorer who hasn’t picked spots throughout the course of the game. These breaks will increase with age too so to expect 30 ppg on one end and lock down on every regular season possession on the other isn’t a realistic expectation.

It doesn’t help that Tatum doesn’t yet have his defensive role player to best allow those breaks to be hidden.
Agree, the C's need an athletic, strong, defensive wing to pick up the opponent's best offensive wing. It's why Smart at wing, the JRich signing, and Romeo's progression are important to the C's. Tatum & Brown will make up the bulk of the C's scoring

Tatum "30ppg scorer" will need to play free safety, jumping passing lanes with his anticipation/length and chasing down loose boards. That's how the Celtics will benefit the most during the regular season. JT will be able to lock-up opponents in the playoffs, not concerned one bit about his D, especially after 4 games.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-jayson-tatum-changed-his-game-and-became-a-star/
 

Deathofthebambino

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Generally speaking, the larger role one takes on offensively you are going to lose some defensively from conserving energy. I can’t think of a big scorer who hasn’t picked spots throughout the course of the game. These breaks will increase with age too so to expect 30 ppg on one end and lock down on every regular season possession on the other isn’t a realistic expectation.

It doesn’t help that Tatum doesn’t yet have his defensive role player to best allow those breaks to be hidden.
I don't expect Tatum to be any of these guys on the defensive end, but a lot of the greatest defensive players in NBA history were also scorers in their own right. Pippen, Payton, KG, Jordan, Kawhi, Kobe, Lebron has 6 All-Defensive teams in his cupboard, Dumars, DWade...

Of course, all of those guys conserved some energy during games at times on the defensive end, but it's absolutely possible to be a great defensive player and a scorer. I'm not worried about Tatum's defense 4 games in, and I certainly think his main role on this team has to be on the offensive end, and while I certainly enjoy watching 135-134 type games (especially if the C's win them), I'm not sure that's the key to winning in the long term. And as someone else says, the regular season (especially early) is a far different game than the playoffs. That said, to this point, Tatum has looked pretty disinterested on that end of the floor and the C's will certainly need more from him on that end to do anything but be a middling playoff team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agree, the C's need an athletic, strong, defensive wing to pick up the opponent's best offensive wing. It's why Smart at wing, the JRich signing, and Romeo's progression are important to the C's. Tatum & Brown will make up the bulk of the C's scoring

Tatum "30ppg scorer" will need to play free safety, jumping passing lanes with his anticipation/length and chasing down loose boards. That's how the Celtics will benefit the most during the regular season. JT will be able to lock-up opponents in the playoffs, not concerned one bit about his D, especially after 4 games.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-jayson-tatum-changed-his-game-and-became-a-star/
I know this may come across as a “hot take” but I’ve mentioned it in the past and I still feel the right deal is what is needed to elevate this team into the Championship conversation…….

Tatum is to Pierce as Jaylen was to Antoine.

No, not perfectly but in the same general sense that they are redundant to a degree. Two scorers who really don’t need the other to score the ball but don’t provide that ideal defensive complement like a Steph/pre-injuries Klay, Michael/Scottie, Pierce/Garnett, etc. I’m not saying to dump Jaylen without a great return but I’m not convinced, nor have I ever been convinced, that Tatum/Jaylen is the optimal pairing long term……and I say this as someone who has loved Jaylen since he was at Cal.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't expect Tatum to be any of these guys on the defensive end, but a lot of the greatest defensive players in NBA history were also scorers in their own right. Pippen, Payton, KG, Jordan, Kawhi, Kobe, Lebron has 6 All-Defensive teams in his cupboard, Dumars, DWade...

Of course, all of those guys conserved some energy during games at times on the defensive end, but it's absolutely possible to be a great defensive player and a scorer. I'm not worried about Tatum's defense 4 games in, and I certainly think his main role on this team has to be on the offensive end, and while I certainly enjoy watching 135-134 type games (especially if the C's win them), I'm not sure that's the key to winning in the long term. And as someone else says, the regular season (especially early) is a far different game than the playoffs. That said, to this point, Tatum has looked pretty disinterested on that end of the floor and the C's will certainly need more from him on that end to do anything but be a middling playoff team.
This is kinda my point on the expectations. You named LeBron, Kobe, Michael (who had Scottie) etc as examples. Those aren’t examples…..those are freakish generational one-offs. Are we really being critical of 23-yr old Jayson Tatum for not being a Top-10 two-way player of all time?

Edit: Re-read your post. I originally missed the part about you not expecting Tatum to be these guys. I’m confused as to the point of naming them in reference to him though. Anyway, I’m in Vegas I need to stay off this site this week lol.
 
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RorschachsMask

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Obvious caveat of four game sample, but Tatum is averaging the best assist to turnover rate of his career, ever so slightly better than last year. And to me it fits the eye test, he looks infinitely quicker WRT recognizing double teams/defense, and playing under control.

Doesn’t mean a ton yet, other than he’s picking up a new offense smoother than I expected.
 

Deathofthebambino

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This is kinda my point on the expectations. You named LeBron, Kobe, Michael (who had Scottie) etc as examples. Those aren’t examples…..those are freakish generational one-offs. Are we really being critical of 23-yr old Jayson Tatum for not being a Top-10 two-way player of all time?
We're in a thread where people are talking about Tatum being a top-3 NBA player in the next year or two, in a league that is full of more freakish athletes than there has ever been before. You said you can't think of a scorer who played defense all the time, so I just threw some names out there. Chris Paul was 23 when he was named to his 2nd All defensive team, while averaging 22.8/11.4. KG made his first all-NBA defensive team as a 23 year old. Giannis made his first at 22. Paul George was 22 when he got the first of his 4 All-Defense awards. Jimmy Butler won the first of his 4 straight awards at age 24.

I'm not being critical or comparing Tatum to any of those guys. He can't hold their athletic supporters with the way he's playing defense right now. Freak athlete or not. I'm not even looking for Tatum to be an All-NBA defender, but in his last 68 games, Tatum has a 112 DRtg. I'd be fine with slightly above average defense from a 23 year old Tatum.
 

reggiecleveland

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I know this may come across as a “hot take” but I’ve mentioned it in the past and I still feel the right deal is what is needed to elevate this team into the Championship conversation…….

Tatum is to Pierce as Jaylen was to Antoine.

No, not perfectly but in the same general sense that they are redundant to a degree. Two scorers who really don’t need the other to score the ball but don’t provide that ideal defensive complement like a Steph/pre-injuries Klay, Michael/Scottie, Pierce/Garnett, etc. I’m not saying to dump Jaylen without a great return but I’m not convinced, nor have I ever been convinced, that Tatum/Jaylen is the optimal pairing long term……and I say this as someone who has loved Jaylen since he was at Cal.
I question if these are the guys to build a team around sometimes, too. But, I remain optimistic based on what I see when they get rolling.

There is something to their games not meshing, but this year I see them working better together. Jaylen looks to score early in transition, then Tatum, with Brown on the opposite side when the double comes. How will Tatum react when he is doubled and Jaylen scores 40 and he gets 20?

My biggest concern is how they react to adversity. Tatum at times sulks instead of leading. Not infrequently he has terrible body language and gives up on a play when a teammate makes a mistake. He will also whine about a call and let it affect his effort even longer than the next play. Brown is a reserved guy too and at times bad things snowball as they both withdraw into themselves. Ime seems a harder-edged coach than Brad, and I hope we have the right guy at the right time. Brad was the right guy to calmly bring these guys up, and deal with crazy Kyrie. It is easier for a new guy to come and take Tatum, Brown to task about inconsistent effort.
 

luckiestman

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I want to keep both guys. My one slightly negative take on Brown is that for how smart he is he does not seem to have close to the floor vision and BBIQ of Tatum or Timelord for that matter. He also, and I'm no expert, seems to mess up a surprising number of defensive assignments. If you watch how players look at him sometimes there is a lot of this confused like "WTF?" The same way an NFL secondary guy will look like his teammate when he blows a coverage.
 

Kliq

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I would snap take Morant over Zion right now. Probably a toss-up with Tatum. There are a group of guys capable of reaching that level……I would include Tatum in that mix.
The case for Morant is that he seems to be wired differently; like a special type of leadership and drive that will allow him to maximize his talent in a way that few NBA players can do. The way he has totally taken command over Memphis and has gotten a lot out of that team the past two seasons he is rare. A total alpha; a guy who truly believes he is the best player in the world. This isn't to knock Tatum's mentality because it's very good...but if he was wired like Morant he probably would have already won the MVP.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Agree, the C's need an athletic, strong, defensive wing to pick up the opponent's best offensive wing. It's why Smart at wing, the JRich signing, and Romeo's progression are important to the C's. Tatum & Brown will make up the bulk of the C's scoring

Tatum "30ppg scorer" will need to play free safety, jumping passing lanes with his anticipation/length and chasing down loose boards. That's how the Celtics will benefit the most during the regular season. JT will be able to lock-up opponents in the playoffs, not concerned one bit about his D, especially after 4 games.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-jayson-tatum-changed-his-game-and-became-a-star/
I just wish that athletic, strong, defensive wing was a .380 3 point shooter instead of a .330-.350 one. The problem with guys like Smart and JRich is on any given year they can shoot 30% from 3 or 38% from 3. You don't know what you are going to get from year to year. That and both are on downward trajectories from 3.


I know this may come across as a “hot take” but I’ve mentioned it in the past and I still feel the right deal is what is needed to elevate this team into the Championship conversation…….

Tatum is to Pierce as Jaylen was to Antoine.

No, not perfectly but in the same general sense that they are redundant to a degree. Two scorers who really don’t need the other to score the ball but don’t provide that ideal defensive complement like a Steph/pre-injuries Klay, Michael/Scottie, Pierce/Garnett, etc. I’m not saying to dump Jaylen without a great return but I’m not convinced, nor have I ever been convinced, that Tatum/Jaylen is the optimal pairing long term……and I say this as someone who has loved Jaylen since he was at Cal.
I've felt this way at times but it's because neither are natural playmakers. Curry is, Michael and Scottie were, KG and PP too. IT/Dumars, Malone/Stockton. There are some pairings like Duncan/Robinson but that's different.

I want to keep both guys. My one slightly negative take on Brown is that for how smart he is he does not seem to have close to the floor vision and BBIQ of Tatum or Timelord for that matter. He also, and I'm no expert, seems to mess up a surprising number of defensive assignments. If you watch how players look at him sometimes there is a lot of this confused like "WTF?" The same way an NFL secondary guy will look like his teammate when he blows a coverage.
Yeah, real life intelligence doesn't have much impact on BBIQ. What Brown does have is an extreme drive/work ethic. For a player who came into the NBA so mechanical, this was the best possible outcome.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
23,056
I've felt this way at times but it's because neither are natural playmakers. Curry is, Michael and Scottie were, KG and PP too. IT/Dumars, Malone/Stockton. There are some pairings like Duncan/Robinson but that's different.
Hey, maybe Miami is up to making a deal.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
18,809
Hey, maybe Miami is up to making a deal.
Took me 5 seconds. I was like, who does Miami have that we'd move Brown for? Brown+TL for Herro+Bam I guess.

But you were just making a Duncan Robinson joke.

edit: I did not see the start Herro was off too.