Jayson Tatum's Rise to the Top

Cesar Crespo

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Basketball twitterverse idiots have Tatum much lower.
I doubt that's the case next year. The casuals usually catch up after an off season and Tatum is clearly at a different level. What is much lower? Anyone have him outside the top 15? That's probably where he started this year, so with casuals... that's where he ends up. Next year, he'll be going in anywhere from 3-10 depending on how the playoffs play out.
 

Auger34

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Not much analytics or stats in this post but throughout 2022 whenever Tatum has sucked in one game, he’s come back the next game with a vengeance.
I fully expect him to come out in Game 4 and kick ass
 

radsoxfan

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What’s up with his left wrist injury? He’s got a wrap on it and grabs it every time he falls.

Also heard on national radio today someone casually mention his left wrist injury…. But haven’t really heard any actual updates or description about it.
 

pjheff

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What’s up with his left wrist injury? He’s got a wrap on it and grabs it every time he falls.

Also heard on national radio today someone casually mention his left wrist injury…. But haven’t really heard any actual updates or description about it.
I notice that when he’s on the ground, his teammates are helping him up with his right hand, not his left. He claimed that it’s something he’s been dealing with for two months.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Thanks mostly to Al Horford, the money is off Tatum's back. The Celtics are tied 2-2 in this series with homecourt advantage over the final 3, which is arguably right where they should be, Tatum game 3 stinker or not.

Tatum wasn't great in game 4, but the difference from game 3 was stark. Ignore the shooting line and you still see contribution to the game: 13 rebounds and 5 assists. For long stretches in game 4, the Bucks were frustrating him along with the rest of the Celtics. He had a moment in the third quarter where it looked as if he was going to start to assert himself, eventually getting his shooting line to 6 of 12 for 18 points. But he missed his next 6 shots, including 4 straight as the Bucks opened up a lead in the third. But then he threw down 12 points in the fourth, on 5-6 shooting, including all but slamming the door shut in Milwaukee's face with 8 straight points late in the 4th when Milwaukee put George Hill in. Earlier in the quarter he drove, missed a layup (his only miss of the Q), tracked down his own rebound, and scored. End of game, he had 30 points on 11 for 24 from the field. It wasn't one of his dominant wire-to-wire performances, but this too is a sign of greatness: having a game where you struggle through a lot of it yet still drop 30 including a dozen in the 4th.

Tatum still has issues to work on. Two straight games where he, with the rest of his teammates, lost focus on the third, worried about the officiating and not the game, and let the Bucks open up a lead. Then, part of his late game stretch in the fourth was a crazy layup that he released after falling and just before hitting the groud. Great shot, but after hitting that Tatum looked up at the refs to complain about no foul call... while Milwaukee was running transition off the made basket. Didn't hurt them but in a close game bitching at the refs while your opponent is running transition is not acceptable.
 

BaseballJones

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Thanks mostly to Al Horford, the money is off Tatum's back. The Celtics are tied 2-2 in this series with homecourt advantage over the final 3, which is arguably right where they should be, Tatum game 3 stinker or not.

Tatum wasn't great in game 4, but the difference from game 3 was stark. Ignore the shooting line and you still see contribution to the game: 13 rebounds and 5 assists. For long stretches in game 4, the Bucks were frustrating him along with the rest of the Celtics. He had a moment in the third quarter where it looked as if he was going to start to assert himself, eventually getting his shooting line to 6 of 12 for 18 points. But he missed his next 6 shots, including 4 straight as the Bucks opened up a lead in the third. But then he threw down 12 points in the fourth, on 5-6 shooting, including all but slamming the door shut in Milwaukee's face with 8 straight points late in the 4th when Milwaukee put George Hill in. Earlier in the quarter he drove, missed a layup (his only miss of the Q), tracked down his own rebound, and scored. End of game, he had 30 points on 11 for 24 from the field. It wasn't one of his dominant wire-to-wire performances, but this too is a sign of greatness: having a game where you struggle through a lot of it yet still drop 30 including a dozen in the 4th.

Tatum still has issues to work on. Two straight games where he, with the rest of his teammates, lost focus on the third, worried about the officiating and not the game, and let the Bucks open up a lead. Then, part of his late game stretch in the fourth was a crazy layup that he released after falling and just before hitting the groud. Great shot, but after hitting that Tatum looked up at the refs to complain about no foul call... while Milwaukee was running transition off the made basket. Didn't hurt them but in a close game bitching at the refs while your opponent is running transition is not acceptable.
This was the point many of us were making after game 3. Game 4 wasn't an elite game from Tatum, but they don't NEED elite games from Tatum. They just need him to not suck. Now it obviously helped incredibly that Al went off, and I don't expect that again (though I do expect him to be solid). But that really falls on Jaylen to step up his game. If they can get 48+ points from Jaylen and Tatum, the rest of the supporting cast is better than Milwaukee's and it should be enough to win. That's why they can't have an absolute disappearing act from Tatum like they had in game 3. He doesn't need to go supernova. He just needs to not be terrible, and the Celtics should be fine.

I mean, don't get me wrong...it would help if Tatum went supernova at some point.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This was the point many of us were making after game 3. Game 4 wasn't an elite game from Tatum, but they don't NEED elite games from Tatum. They just need him to not suck. Now it obviously helped incredibly that Al went off, and I don't expect that again (though I do expect him to be solid). But that really falls on Jaylen to step up his game. If they can get 48+ points from Jaylen and Tatum, the rest of the supporting cast is better than Milwaukee's and it should be enough to win. That's why they can't have an absolute disappearing act from Tatum like they had in game 3. He doesn't need to go supernova. He just needs to not be terrible, and the Celtics should be fine.

I mean, don't get me wrong...it would help if Tatum went supernova at some point.
He needed like one minute of nova - never mind super - in game 3 to turn the game. That is what made it frustrating.
 

joe dokes

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Tatum still has issues to work on. Two straight games where he, with the rest of his teammates, lost focus on the third, worried about the officiating and not the game, and let the Bucks open up a lead. Then, part of his late game stretch in the fourth was a crazy layup that he released after falling and just before hitting the ground. Great shot, but after hitting that Tatum looked up at the refs to complain about no foul call... while Milwaukee was running transition off the made basket. Didn't hurt them but in a close game bitching at the refs while your opponent is running transition is not acceptable.
Willis Reed once said, "If you must loaf, loaf on offense." Smart has that down. When he snuggled with Giannis for 5 seconds or so, the C's had the ball. Tatum rested when the Bucks had the ball. (partly kidding, but I would not be surprised if that is generally Smart's approach.)

BTW--Since this is the Tatum thread. THIS SHOT WENT IN!!!!

51481
 

jezza1918

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Thanks mostly to Al Horford, the money is off Tatum's back. The Celtics are tied 2-2 in this series with homecourt advantage over the final 3, which is arguably right where they should be, Tatum game 3 stinker or not.

Tatum wasn't great in game 4, but the difference from game 3 was stark. Ignore the shooting line and you still see contribution to the game: 13 rebounds and 5 assists. For long stretches in game 4, the Bucks were frustrating him along with the rest of the Celtics. He had a moment in the third quarter where it looked as if he was going to start to assert himself, eventually getting his shooting line to 6 of 12 for 18 points. But he missed his next 6 shots, including 4 straight as the Bucks opened up a lead in the third. But then he threw down 12 points in the fourth, on 5-6 shooting, including all but slamming the door shut in Milwaukee's face with 8 straight points late in the 4th when Milwaukee put George Hill in. Earlier in the quarter he drove, missed a layup (his only miss of the Q), tracked down his own rebound, and scored. End of game, he had 30 points on 11 for 24 from the field. It wasn't one of his dominant wire-to-wire performances, but this too is a sign of greatness: having a game where you struggle through a lot of it yet still drop 30 including a dozen in the 4th.

Tatum still has issues to work on. Two straight games where he, with the rest of his teammates, lost focus on the third, worried about the officiating and not the game, and let the Bucks open up a lead. Then, part of his late game stretch in the fourth was a crazy layup that he released after falling and just before hitting the groud. Great shot, but after hitting that Tatum looked up at the refs to complain about no foul call... while Milwaukee was running transition off the made basket. Didn't hurt them but in a close game bitching at the refs while your opponent is running transition is not acceptable.
Based on your posts, you've forgotten more about basketball than I know...so question for you: do you know if some of these traits he's showing are at all indicative of his ability to lead a team to a title going forward? As I think Ive hinted at before in this thread, I'm operating from the assumption that 24 year olds almost never lead their team to NBA championships - Lebron didn't do it, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, etc. Is what we are seeing from Tatum at his age put him more in the camp of potentially being in the above named group or more in the Harden/Paul/Westbrook camp (I realize not the best player comps in style, just looking for modern nba superstars that haven't won)? I realize it may be an impossible question to answer, but curious what thoughts you (and others) might have.
In my optimistic bucket - I say he's more in the Curry, etc. camp because to date pretty much every hill that's been placed in front of him so far he's worked at pretty methodically to climb over.
The pessimistic side of me says that the mental glitches we still see are incredibly frustrating and should be eradicated by now. All superstars complain to a certain degree, but he still complains and whines to the point it actually affects his play.
 

lovegtm

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Based on your posts, you've forgotten more about basketball than I know...so question for you: do you know if some of these traits he's showing are at all indicative of his ability to lead a team to a title going forward? As I think Ive hinted at before in this thread, I'm operating from the assumption that 24 year olds almost never lead their team to NBA championships - Lebron didn't do it, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, etc. Is what we are seeing from Tatum at his age put him more in the camp of potentially being in the above named group or more in the Harden/Paul/Westbrook camp (I realize not the best player comps in style, just looking for modern nba superstars that haven't won)? I realize it may be an impossible question to answer, but curious what thoughts you (and others) might have.
In my optimistic bucket - I say he's more in the Curry, etc. camp because to date pretty much every hill that's been placed in front of him so far he's worked at pretty methodically to climb over.
The pessimistic side of me says that the mental glitches we still see are incredibly frustrating and should be eradicated by now. All superstars complain to a certain degree, but he still complains and whines to the point it actually affects his play.
Whining incessantly is probably more correlated with superstardom than any other NBA trait.

To become an MVP candidate, JT will need to raise his petulance to heretofore unseen levels.
 

bigq

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As I think Ive hinted at before in this thread, I'm operating from the assumption that 24 year olds almost never lead their team to NBA championships - Lebron didn't do it, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, etc. Is what we are seeing from Tatum at his age put him more in the camp of potentially being in the above named group or more in the Harden/Paul/Westbrook camp (I realize not the best player comps in style, just looking for modern nba superstars that haven't won)? I realize it may be an impossible question to answer, but curious what thoughts you (and others) might have.
There are a handful of examples of young guys leading their teams to championships in their early 20s.

Magic was 20 when he won his first NBA championship. You could say Kareem was the best player on that Lakers team and you would be right however Magic was amazing in that series putting up 22 points, 11 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals per game. Kareem didn't play in Game 6 and Magic was dominant in that series clinching game. I think a good argument can be made that Magic led the team to the championship.

Bird was 24 when he led the Celtics to a championship in 1981. He was the best player on that team despite Maxwell winning the MVP. In my mind Bird led the team to the championship.

Tim Duncan was 22 when he led the Spurs to their championship in 1999 and he was the best player on the team in the championship series.

Kobe was 21 when the Lakers won a championship in 2000 however Shaq was the best player on that team and in that series by a pretty wide margin. So I can't give credit to Kobe for leading the team to the championship.

Dwyane Wade was 24 in 2006 when the Heat won it all. He was definitely the leader on that team with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle.

Kawhi was 22 in 2014 when the Spurs won the championship. Tough to say he was the leader of that team. It was so well balanced and Parker, Kawhi, Duncan and Ginobili were a four headed monster.

In any case, Tatum will be among a short list of early 20s greats over the past 40 years should he lead the Celtics to a championship this season.

edit - Clarifying that Duncan was the best player on the Spurs team in the championship series.
 
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jezza1918

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There are a handful of examples of young guys leading their teams to championships in their early 20s.

Magic was 20 when he won his first NBA championship. You could say Kareem was the best player on that Lakers team and you would be right however Magic was amazing in that series putting up 22 points, 11 rebounds, 9 assists and 3 steals per game. Kareem didn't play in Game 6 and Magic was dominant in that series clinching game. I think a good argument can be made that Magic led the team to the championship.

Bird was 24 when he led the Celtics to a championship in 1981. He was the best player on that team despite Maxwell winning the MVP. In my mind Bird led the team to the championship.

Tim Duncan was 22 when he led the Spurs to their championship in 1999 and he was the best player on the team.

Kobe was 21 when the Lakers won a championship in 2000 however Shaq was the best player on that team and in that series by a pretty wide margin. So I can't give credit to Kobe for leading the team to the championship.

Dwyane Wade was 24 in 2006 when the Heat won it all. He was definitely the leader on that team with Shaq playing 2nd fiddle.

Kawhi was 22 in 2014 when the Spurs won the championship. Tough to say he was the leader of that team. It was so well balanced and Parker, Kawhi, Duncan and Ginobili were a four headed monster.

In any case, Tatum will be among a short list of early 20s greats over the past 40 years should he lead the Celtics to a championship this season.
Sorry was referring to this last generation only,. And I'll retort in that per pretty much every advanced metric Robinson was better than Duncan that year (better O rating, better D rating, VORP), although I think Duncan won finals mvp so definitely counts for something ;). Great call on Wade though, my memory recall on that was more of a big balance between Wade and a dominant Shaq. So I'll revise my point, in that there is a precedence...but it's still very much the exception. Adding onto my list of players above is our favorite player right now in Giannis. Obviously more of a developmental player than Tatum when drafted, but still he was MVP of the league two years in a row and still couldn't lead his team to the title until the year after (8th year in the league, age 26).

The other thing that Wade/Duncan (and Magic/Bird) had is a surefire Hall of Fame vet who were still very good at their sides. Tatum doesn't have that, and I may be missing someone (again) but I don't think any of the other guys I mentioned had that either.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Willis Reed once said, "If you must loaf, loaf on offense." Smart has that down. When he snuggled with Giannis for 5 seconds or so, the C's had the ball. Tatum rested when the Bucks had the ball. (partly kidding, but I would not be surprised if that is generally Smart's approach.)

BTW--Since this is the Tatum thread. THIS SHOT WENT IN!!!!

View attachment 51481
52 years ago today

51489
 

Ed Hillel

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Not a single one of his mid-long range makes hit rim. Talk about being locked in, my goodness.
 

GreyisGone

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That very much felt like a leap game for him. On the road, elimination game vs the champs, and he carried them when they needed it. That’s the guy he needs to be.
 

TripleOT

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Duran. Check
Giannis. Check

Butler doesn’t seem like too big a hurdle. Tatum hasn’t shot well this season versus Miami, 42/27/71%, and averaged only 17.7 ppg, but was plus 42 in 100 total minutes. He was bottled up in their early win, scoring only 10 points on 3-13 shooting, and shot OK in the last two meetings. He’s going to have to facilitate well against a good Miami defense, and obviously will have to shoot better.
 

Eddie Jurak

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StatMuse: Jayson Tatum this playoffs: 28.3 PPG 5.6 RPG 6.1 APG He is on pace to be the first Celtic ever to average 28/5/5 in a single playoffs.
Pretty remarkable considering Bird had a 4 year stretch averaging 28/10/7. He never averaged 28 ppg for a full playoff run.
Bird was too busy rebounding to average 28.

1983-84: 27.5 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 5.9 APG in 23 games and a finals win
1984-85: 26.0 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 5.8 APG in 20 games and a finals loss (note, this is the playoffs where he messed up his hand in a barfight)
1985-86: 25.9 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 8.2 APG in 18 games and a finals win
1986-87: 27.0 PPG, 10.0 RPG, 7.2 APG in 23 games and finals loss
 

lovegtm

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And remember, 6 assists for Tatum is like 8-9 assists for someone who plays PG, because of the couple cheap assists you get per game just from starting with the ball more often.
 

moondog80

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1984-85: 26.0 PPG, 9.1 RPG, 5.8 APG in 20 games and a finals loss (note, this is the playoffs where he messed up his hand in a barfight)
I don’t want to speak ill of a God, but that would be a major scandal if it happened today and he’s get destroyed, right? An incredibly irresponsible thing to do but it’s viewed as almost charming because he’s just normal folk who cuts his own lawn. And yeah, there’s probably a racial element — if Cedric Maxwell had done this in Roxbury, not the same reaction.

Assuming that it’s true, of course.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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This game and this series are now career- and legacy-defining games for Jayson Tatum.

His play in the second half of the season and in Brooklyn series vaulted his name into the top 5 conversation.

If the Celtics drop this series, after his game 3 - a game the Celtics win if he is merely bad - that takes his name right back out of it and fast. And his name stays out of that coversation until he proves he can win.
Feeling better?
 

Eddie Jurak

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I don’t want to speak ill of a God, but that would be a major scandal if it happened today and he’s get destroyed, right? An incredibly irresponsible thing to do but it’s viewed as almost charming because he’s just normal folk who cuts his own lawn. And yeah, there’s probably a racial element — if Cedric Maxwell had done this in Roxbury, not the same reaction.

Assuming that it’s true, of course.
Oh, yes, it would be. And Larry's fight is true - not a rumor.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-11-09-sp-3703-story.html

Bird would have been so much better in today's game with today's money, today's training (Bird running all those laps around the concrete Garden stands was bad for him), the emphasis on the three, etc.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Feeling better?
Yes

I said the rest of the series was legacy-defining and I was right. :)

The game 6 4th quarter explosion is something great players need to step up and do and not every would be great player can or does.

And he followed that up with a game 7 where he was really in control. Foul trouble aside (and no player has complete control over that), his shooting, passing, and decision-making were all top notch.

This is something he hadn't done before (and that's not a knock - last year he was on a mediocre team and the year before he was, what, 22), and now he has.
 

lexrageorge

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I don’t want to speak ill of a God, but that would be a major scandal if it happened today and he’s get destroyed, right? An incredibly irresponsible thing to do but it’s viewed as almost charming because he’s just normal folk who cuts his own lawn. And yeah, there’s probably a racial element — if Cedric Maxwell had done this in Roxbury, not the same reaction.

Assuming that it’s true, of course.
Definitely would have been handled differently today. Still, part of the reason that the episode gets glossed over is the fact that Bird missed all of one game (a Cleveland win). After the Cavs fans shouted "We want Bird!", he dropped 34 on them to close out the series.

And the bigger problem for the Celtics against LA was that Maxwell was hurt, so the Celtics depth was essentially depleted. Scott Wedman was the only Celtic bench player to get any notable time that series. Bird, McHale, and DJ averaged over 40 minutes per game that series, while the Lakers were able to avoid having any starter average 40 (relative youngsters Worthy and Magic both averaged 39). McAdoo, Rambis, and Kupchak all averaged over 14 mpg.

Maxwell did get unfairly blamed by the media, Celtics staff, and even some fans. He drew 10 DNP's his rookie season. After that, he missed a total of 14 games over the next 6 seasons, and played through knee pain for most of January and February before finally having to shut it down for a month, after which he was never really the same player. But he did net us Walton in the end, and it was great to hear his voice on the radio on the SiriusXM simulcast yesterday while I was driving back from NJ.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The Bird story reminds me why a lot of players back then aged like James Harden. The bars. Now most players hit the gym. Tatum especially.
 

lovegtm

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The Bird story reminds me why a lot of players back then aged like James Harden. The bars. Now most players hit the gym. Tatum especially.
It's been discussed before, but Instagram has really lengthened a lot of careers.
 

moondog80

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The Bird story reminds me why a lot of players back then aged like James Harden. The bars. Now most players hit the gym. Tatum especially.

The clip of Al Horford doing the weighted leg raises after the Al Horford game comes to mind.

I do wonder if someone like Bird would have even made it today. Not for anything on the floor, but the developmental circuit is so different now, so organized and pressure-filled, basically from the time they are 8 years old. Bird walked away from playing at Indiana in 1974 and had to talked out of working on a garbage truck to enroll at a glorified JUCO program. Does the same guy born in 2002 just quit altogether and we never hear of him?
 

joe dokes

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The Bird story reminds me why a lot of players back then aged like James Harden. The bars. Now most players hit the gym. Tatum especially.
A 21-year old drinking age helps.

But seriously, and relatedly, Bird was a rookie in his age 23 season; Tatum in his age 19 season. While all the stuff about training techniques is true, those 4 years make a difference. Bird got old fast; but he *was* old in NBA terms.
 

nighthob

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I don’t want to speak ill of a God, but that would be a major scandal if it happened today and he’s get destroyed, right? An incredibly irresponsible thing to do but it’s viewed as almost charming because he’s just normal folk who cuts his own lawn. And yeah, there’s probably a racial element — if Cedric Maxwell had done this in Roxbury, not the same reaction.

Assuming that it’s true, of course.
We fans didn't consider it charming at all and were majorly pissed that Larry pissed away a title fighting. The same way we got pissed off that he wrecked his back because he was too cheap to hire a contractor to do some work at his mother's house.
 

nighthob

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The Bird story reminds me why a lot of players back then aged like James Harden. The bars. Now most players hit the gym. Tatum especially.
Yeah, people don't really grasp just how much the party atmosphere of the 70s and 80s contributed to rapid decline. That's before we get into the number of guys that smoked (more a thing in the 60s and 70s than the 80s, but really even the 80s had smokers). But back in those days it wasn't unusual for guys to be done by the time they hit 32 or 33.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Yeah, people don't really grasp just how much the party atmosphere of the 70s and 80s contributed to rapid decline. That's before we get into the number of guys that smoked (more a thing in the 60s and 70s than the 80s, but really even the 80s had smokers). But back in those days it wasn't unusual for guys to be done by the time they hit 32 or 33.
I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Ard a couple of times. Said many of the players smoked at halftime.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, people don't really grasp just how much the party atmosphere of the 70s and 80s contributed to rapid decline. That's before we get into the number of guys that smoked (more a thing in the 60s and 70s than the 80s, but really even the 80s had smokers). But back in those days it wasn't unusual for guys to be done by the time they hit 32 or 33.
Yeah the booze alone, nevermind the cigarettes and the coke.

At the end of game 7, Giannis and Tatum hugged each other after the game. I couldn't help noticing that neither of those guys is close to the body fat of the guys in the 1980s (who were elite basketball players). The fitness, nutrition, and training is off the charts and a full time job.
 

benhogan

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I don't think we are disagreeing; it's more of just the perspective on how we see the distance between Tatum today and Tatum in a few seasons if it all goes well. Let's say Tatum's ceiling is like, prime Kevin Durant. I'd argue that he is like, 90% there at the moment; and while he is likely to certainly improve over the next few seasons, we can already envision what the best version of Tatum looks like (as opposed to say, TimeLord who is still a bit of a mystery).
taking this over here

That's fair. I do think Tatum has more to go, not sure how far he's going to take it. 90% there, maybe? BUT he keeps on downloading difficult shit and mastering it over 3mth chunks. We'd all take prime Durant but is there a world where Tatum is better?

Over the next 5 years it's going to be Tatum, Giannis and Luka with the rest of the Superstars aging out. There was some pushback at the beginning of the season on this eventually happening but that's where the NBA is going
 

Kliq

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taking this over here

That's fair. I do think Tatum has more to go, not sure how far he's going to take it. 90% there, maybe? BUT he keeps on downloading difficult shit and mastering it over 3mth chunks. We'd all take prime Durant but is there a world where Tatum is better?

Over the next 5 years it's going to be Tatum, Giannis and Luka with the rest of the Superstars aging out. There was some pushback at the beginning of the season on this eventually happening but that's where the NBA is going
To make a bit clearer; to differentiate between Tatum and TimeLord; Tatum's improvements from now until his peak (whatever that is) is mostly going to come from improvements of his existing skills. The way Tatum is utilized now (primary creator, top defensive wing, etc.) isn't likely to change. TimeLord, if he makes some leaps here and there, could be a drastically different offensive player in a few years, and could be utilized in a much different way.
 

DGreenwood

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taking this over here

That's fair. I do think Tatum has more to go, not sure how far he's going to take it. 90% there, maybe? BUT he keeps on downloading difficult shit and mastering it over 3mth chunks. We'd all take prime Durant but is there a world where Tatum is better?

Over the next 5 years it's going to be Tatum, Giannis and Luka with the rest of the Superstars aging out. There was some pushback at the beginning of the season on this eventually happening but that's where the NBA is going

A couple of months ago the debate was "Is Tatum top 10?". Now it has switched to "Is Tatum top 5?". When exactly did that happen? After the Brooklyn series maybe?
 

Jimbodandy

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Jan 31, 2006
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around the way
A couple of months ago the debate was "Is Tatum top 10?". Now it has switched to "Is Tatum top 5?". When exactly did that happen? After the Brooklyn series maybe?
Yes around then. Probably during the Brooklyn series.

Being named first team all NBA helps with an argument of belonging in the top 5, although not equivalent obviously.

But if you were to go by DARKO, I'd say "about 20 games ago". 5 DARKO is basically a top-5 player right now (I know that bowiac would hate this ranking use).

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