Tangentially related to the Kawhi thread, assuming that the Celtics had to deal one of them for a superstar who is the guy you'd want them to keep?
Tangentially related to the Kawhi thread, assuming that the Celtics had to deal one of them for a superstar who is the guy you'd want them to keep?
Exactly.Easiest poll ever. I love Jaylen, but JT is already the better player of the two, and he’s a year and a half younger and a year further away from free agency.
And Tatum scored 4 in his second playoff game.I have no idea, but I do know that in this last 5 games, Brown has:
Game 1: scored a career high 32
Game 3: scored 21 points in first quarter
Game 4: scored 20 points in first playoff start
Game 5: scored 30 points in second playoff start
That is absolutely the common wisdom. If there’s any reason to be bearish on Tatum, it’s that he has been exceptionally polished for a rookie and therefore might improve much less in the next year or two than your typical kid who enters the NBA at age 19. Even those of us who are bullish on Tatum don’t expect him to make the kind of leap next year that Jaylen made this year.Isn't the common wisdom that rookies suck, even when they go on to become stars? Brown was OK as a rookie but Tatum was an efficient NBA-caliber player from day one. There's very few players who put together the type of rookie year he had, especially rookies who were also under 21.
I don't see why Tatum wouldn't make a similar leap and I'd be disappointed if he didn't. He has great improvement to do on his body which should result in added strength and a players second year following his first offseason is typically their most important sign of their long term growth. I'm looking for huge things from Tatum next year.....maybe not necessarily shown in raw numbers as his usage will be down with the return of Hayward. Or maybe it will.That is absolutely the common wisdom. If there’s any reason to be bearish on Tatum, it’s that he has been exceptionally polished for a rookie and therefore might improve much less in the next year or two than your typical kid who enters the NBA at age 19. Even those of us who are bullish on Tatum don’t expect him to make the kind of leap next year that Jaylen made this year.
This is what I’m hoping for too, except I think the improvement is more likely to show itself in assists than points. A guy who’s as good off the dribble as Tatum should make his teammates better. That’s too much to expect from a 19-year old, even one as polished as Tatum, but if he’s going to get there eventually (and I’m bullish on that), we should see signs next year —he’ll never be Ben Simmons, but he shouldn’t be sitting at 1.9 assists per 36 minutes either.I expect him to be stronger and able to finish better because of it. That and respect might be enough to get him an extra 3-5 ppg given the current usage on the premise of finishing a couple more and a few FTs. Sure not as big as a leap from a fringe rotation to the one of the best scorers currently on team... BUT those 3-5 points and some more consistency through the dog days would be HUGE.
I think we’ve already been seeing signs. Not consistently, yet, but in his March hot streak he’s been flashing some play making skill pretty consistently. He’s had some pretty spectacular assists, and what’s more, he seems on occasion to have a sense of how to use his ballhandling to move defenders out of the way so as to create for teammates.This is what I’m hoping for too, except I think the improvement is more likely to show itself in assists than points. A guy who’s as good off the dribble as Tatum should make his teammates better. That’s too much to expect from a 19-year old, even one as polished as Tatum, but if he’s going to get there eventually (and I’m bullish on that), we should see signs next year —he’ll never be Ben Simmons, but he shouldn’t be sitting at 1.9 assists per 36 minutes either.
Totally agree.I think we’ve already been seeing signs. Not consistently, yet, but in his March hot streak he’s been flashing some play making skill pretty consistently. He’s had some pretty spectacular assists, and what’s more, he seems on occasion to have a sense of how to use his ballhandling to move defenders out of the way so as to create for teammates.
Next year, when he is sharing the floor with Hayward and Kyrie, I think we’ll see even more of it.
I think this is true. Tatum’s needed growth is more on the physical side whereas Brown’s needed growth is on the skill side. There will naturally be different rates of growth for each. Obviously, both guys need to grow on each front.This is very unscientific, and I didn't watch as many games last year as I did this year, but it seems like a lot of Jaylen's improvement this year came on the mental side (decision-making, rotations, etc), and he got better at shooting 3s. JB was already plenty athletic.
Tatum seems to already be doing a lot of the "basketball IQ" things right so maybe he has less room to grow there, and I'm not sure how much better his shooting could really get either (using the bb-ref play finder, he had the 4th-best 3p% ever among rookies with at least 200 attempts, and 8th best with at least 100 attempts). But obviously he has more potential to fill out and be more physical.
So I think they will grow in different ways. Whether the overall "leap" for Tatum is as big as Brown's, I'm not sure. It will be fun to find out.
I see thins line of thinkng from time to time, and I think it is wrong, or at least overstated. I mean, obviously he has room to grow physically. But, the idea that he's at or near his peak in terms of learning and understanding how to play the game just strikes me as ludicrous. One big area of potential improvement was identified up thread by @maufman - playmaking.Tatum seems to already be doing a lot of the "basketball IQ" things right so maybe he has less room to grow there
Yes, but those improvements tend to be more gradual and modest than, say, learning your rotations so that you don’t fuck up and hand the other team an easy bucket 2-3 times per game. Tatum doesn’t make those dumb rookie mistakes, the elimination of which accounts for a big part of the typical jump from year 1 to year 2. He’s by no means a finished product in any aspect of his game; he just doesn’t have the low-hanging fruit to pick that Jaylen did.I see thins line of thinkng from time to time, and I think it is wrong, or at least overstated. I mean, obviously he has room to grow physically. But, the idea that he's at or near his peak in terms of learning and understanding how to play the game just strikes me as ludicrous. One big area of potential improvement was identified up thread by @maufman - playmaking.
“I noticed Jayson doesn’t practice things until he gets them right. He practices until he can’t get them wrong.”
LOL. He's a 20 year old rookie, and is already leagues ahead of where Brown was a year ago.Tatum has flaws on offfense that I think a lot of C's fans aren't noticing
Thanks for posting. You know if Jayson hadn't sprained his foot early in his Duke season, the Cs probably wouldn't have another lottery pick in their arsenal?Nice profile of Tatum from the Globe:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2018/04/20/jayson-tatum-door-has-passion-great/zsHl5BDFBgaD4R3LsesmAM/story.html
I liked this line:
82-0 lineup.This must be what Raptors fans felt they had with Carter and McGrady together. To have two rookie scale stars to go with three other stars in the starting five is an unbelievable luxury. Crazy good lineup.
Agreed. It's a question of derivative, to me - players improve at different rates. Tatum is a better player now and there's a good chance of him improving quicker relative to Brown. But there's also a good chance of it happening the other way around. This is too-close-to-call stuff when you're looking three or four years out, I think.Tatum was also probably a better defender this year.
Jaylen’s improvement has been about as good as we could have possibly hoped for, however. He’s turning into someone you actually want to throw a max at. My biggest fear was he’d be at that level where you’re wasting money on a max, but that would not seem to be the case. He’s a stud.