Jaylen or Tatum?

If the Celtics could only keep one of them, who would you prefer that they keep?

  • Jaylen Brown

  • Jayson Tatum


Results are only viewable after voting.

bakahump

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Agreed. I think my membership is from 2002 ish. And that was only based on when we paid for membership. Prior to that it was pretty much if she signed up then you were in, followed by the Referral era then the Paid and referred era.

I think I was 97ish (luckily wouldnt get in now :p) Someone should change my tag to "Grandfathered"

There was definitely celts talk way back then. I think (I was ridiculously over excited like drafts in every sport) i stated for the record that Moiso would become Lamarr Odom for the Celts. Ha!

The Paul Pierce Stabbing stands out as a big discussion. I think I wanted to get rid of the troublemaker. No way he would ever be dedicated enough to contribute long term. That was what 2000?
 

Nick Kaufman

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You know, you can find out when you joined on your profile page. Mine says August 2, 2003 and it comports with my recollection as well.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Should I know who he is? Never heard of him before.
He's a big analytics guy in doing draft analysis. He was not very high on Jaylen Brown and he trashed the Cs draft that year. Here's his blog: https://deanondraft.com/.

Here's his analysis of DA's 2016 draft (note that the "monster offer" referenced was probably something along the lines of Okafor and Noel and another draft pick, which I never really considered a "monster offer "):

Losers:
Boston: #3 Jaylen Brown, #16 Guerschon Yabusele, #23 Ante Zizic, #45 Demetrius Jackson, #51 Ben Bentil, #58 Abdel Nader


In fairness to Boston, the Celtics were in a tough position with 8 draft picks and a limited number of roster spots to accommodate them, but they handled the situation about as poorly as they possibly could have.

I am much higher on Jaylen Brown than most statistical models would suggest, and frankly if he was taken after Bender was off the board I’d rather like the pick. But taking him over Dragan Bender is a crucial error, and with a monster offer from Philly for Kris Dunn possibly on the table adds more sting to the choice. Then from there it only got worse.

It only made sense that the Celtics would stash some Euros with their picks, but in a draft rife with upsidey internationals, the Celtics managed to use their two other 1st round picks on players I rated as 2nd rounders. Then they traded 31 and 35 for a protected Clippers pick that is worth much less than the sum of those picks. 16/23/31/35 were the money shots in the draft and they collectively converted those picks to about 25% as much value as Morey did with 37/43/UFA.

Some picks were going to need to be sacrificed on stashes, but instead they are wasting their roster spots on Demetrius Jackson (who was decent value at #45, and could be a solid backup PG), and Ben Bentil at #51 (who had no business being drafted). Somehow they also drafted Abdel Nader at #58, and I can only assume it’s because he is willing to be stashed.

But there was so so so much potential for 16/23/31/35. They could have landed 16. Wade Baldwin, 23. Any of Luwawu/Korkmaz/Dejounte, 31. Onuaku, 35. McCaw/Qi/Zipser/Ragorac/etc and thrown their late picks along with James Young and Terry Rozier in the trash, but instead they trashed the valuable picks and are wasting roster spots on four guys who are collectively worth close to 0.

This draft was a massive failure on all fronts by the Celtics. You’d think with 8 picks there would be one trade or decision to be happy with as a fan, instead Danny Ainge delivered a series of compounding errors.
 

TFisNEXT

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Yikes, he hated Jaylen and then wanted them to throw Terry Rozier off their roster.
 

Joe Sixpack

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Nah, we were still EZBOARD in 2003 and 2004
I don't remember when the switch happened but we all had to sign up for new accounts on the new site whenever that was, nothing carried over. I joined originally in 1999 or so and I think my profile here says 2002 or 2003.
 

4 6 3 DP

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Bill Simmons referenced this place in a mailbag in 2001, which was when I joined and I think this place exploded.
 

Nick Kaufman

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That's when you joined the current sonsofsamhorn.net site, not the original ezboard (now Yuku) site.
Nope, that's when I joined, period. I remember posting on ezboard as well, in fact most of my posts probably are there, certainly the longer ones. We moved away from ezboard far later than 2003. I want to say 2008 or something. Apparently, the admins have saved the original signup dates and transported them to the new software.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I don't remember when the switch happened but we all had to sign up for new accounts on the new site whenever that was, nothing carried over. I joined originally in 1999 or so and I think my profile here says 2002 or 2003.
Maybe you were part of a board that preceded ezboard or an ezboard version whose date weren't moved. For myself, I remember posting on the projo boards in 2001 and 2002, the writing an email to Lanternjaw asking him to become a member. Eric Van was huge those days. HUGE.
 

Montana Fan

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The Mick was the Mod and LJ created SoSH after there were ongoing problems with that old board. DTFC began circa 96/97. Yeah, Jaylen and Jayson weren't even twinkles in their parents eyes.
 

Joe Sixpack

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Nope, that's when I joined, period. I remember posting on ezboard as well, in fact most of my posts probably are there, certainly the longer ones. We moved away from ezboard far later than 2003. I want to say 2008 or something. Apparently, the admins have saved the original signup dates and transported them to the new software.
Just checked my profile on the old site (which I guess is now tapatalk) and the sign up dates don't match what my profile says here.

Anyway, since this has gotten way off topic and we've been discussing draft stuff, here's the oldest still surviving Celtics draft thread from the old board, in June 2001:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sonsofsamhorn/celtics-draft-t14707.html
 

Eddie Jurak

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Just checked my profile on the old site (which I guess is now tapatalk) and the sign up dates don't match what my profile says here.

Anyway, since this has gotten way off topic and we've been discussing draft stuff, here's the oldest still surviving Celtics draft thread from the old board, in June 2001:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sonsofsamhorn/celtics-draft-t14707.html
2001? You mean the year Chris Wallace built a Celtic dynasty by drafting Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, and Tony Parker?
 

Koufax

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By now we all know that this thread is build on a false premise. There's no way either one of them is going anywhere.
 

bosox79

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Maybe you were part of a board that preceded ezboard or an ezboard version whose date weren't moved. For myself, I remember posting on the projo boards in 2001 and 2002, the writing an email to Lanternjaw asking him to become a member. Eric Van was huge those days. HUGE.
Not as big as bostondirtdog.
 

Royal Reader

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Nope, that's when I joined, period. I remember posting on ezboard as well, in fact most of my posts probably are there, certainly the longer ones. We moved away from ezboard far later than 2003. I want to say 2008 or something. Apparently, the admins have saved the original signup dates and transported them to the new software.
I started reading during the '04 Sox run, and got my lurker account in 2005. Definitely EZboard at that time.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I started reading during the '04 Sox run, and got my lurker account in 2005. Definitely EZboard at that time.
Speaking of 2005, if you want to read the SoSH 2005 Celtics Draft Analysis, here you go:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sonsofsamhorn/celtics-05-draft-t3398.html#p3398

you can find such insights such as:

I have a feeling that Pierce is not long for this team and that if he is not moved on Tuesday he will be gone soon.

Just a hunch, but I bet we draft a SG: CJ Miles, Francisco Garcia, Rashad McCants

With their comments about West and Allen last year I think Garcia could be their man. Miles has a huge upside and would be my pick.-------------------------
Not sure why Celts threads were in Members Only back then, but with insight like that, who could blame them?
 

AlNipper49

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Agreed. I think my membership is from 2002 ish. And that was only based on when we paid for membership. Prior to that it was pretty much if she signed up then you were in, followed by the Referral era then the Paid and referred era.

I think I was 97ish (luckily wouldnt get in now :p) Someone should change my tag to "Grandfathered"

There was definitely celts talk way back then. I think (I was ridiculously over excited like drafts in every sport) i stated for the record that Moiso would become Lamarr Odom for the Celts. Ha!

The Paul Pierce Stabbing stands out as a big discussion. I think I wanted to get rid of the troublemaker. No way he would ever be dedicated enough to contribute long term. That was what 2000?
We actually have those archives somewhere. One of these days I’ll figure out how to import them in
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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One note: highest PPG by a player younger than 22 in the conference finals belongs to Kobe at 20.4 ppg.

JB is higher than that right now (no jinx meant). Link to full list in tweet below.

 

maufman

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By now we all know that this thread is build on a false premise. There's no way either one of them is going anywhere.
Funny how much can change in a month. The Pelicans’ first-round win extinguished Amy slim chance that Davis might become available in the next year, and betting on Jaylen’s upside rather than Kawhi’s health seems like a no-brained in light of Jaylen’s playoff performance.
 

Ed Hillel

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Funny how much can change in a month. The Pelicans’ first-round win extinguished Amy slim chance that Davis might become available in the next year, and betting on Jaylen’s upside rather than Kawhi’s health seems like a no-brained in light of Jaylen’s playoff performance.
I think Davis would still be available. The Celtics offer would be something like Horford/Brown/Rozier/Sac pick, and I think the Pelicans would have an extremely tough time saying no. But would Danny do it? Given the team’s chemistry, Brown’s performance, and Davis’s injury history, I dunno. Good chance he wants no part of it now.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Chad Finn's article on Paul Pierce is well worth a read. The Truth on comparison's between him and Tatum:

"I see it, I definitely do. I wasn’t the most athletic guy. Tatum is a lot more athletic than I was. He can use either hand. Once he gets a little stronger in the near future, look out. I mean, he’s obviously smart beyond his years. When I came out, I was a 21-year-old,’’ Pierce continued. “He was 19 for most of this season. I know that doesn’t sound like a lot, but a year and a half, two years, that’s a lot of developmental time. I had three years of college [at Kansas] to develop. He had one year [at Duke], and he’s already doing this. He’s a superstar in the making. You can compare a kid like that to me anytime you want.’’

The Truth about Jaylen:

“Jaylen can be your prototype swingman, a guy who can defend, shoot 3s, everything you need. He sort of reminds me of Kawhi Leonard, man. Like, seriously. Strong, very athletic in the open court, an improving handle, and now he’s knocking down 3s with confidence. He is way ahead of the curve.’’
 

MarkBT

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Zach Lowe had Bill Simmons on his podcast this week to discuss the Celtics. Toward the end of the conversation, they were discussing hypothetical trades and agreed that with the exception of Giannis and Anthony Davis, Tatum is untouchable in trade proposals... and that Brown was trending that way. (Lowe said "the Celtics can beat it [trade package for Kawhi] but the problem is Tatum has gotten too good... and Brown has almost gotten too good."

Flashback to August 2017... imagine knowing that by May 2018, both Tatum and Brown would be considered too good/valuable in a straight up trade for Kawhi Leonard!
 

JCizzle

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Zach Lowe had Bill Simmons on his podcast this week to discuss the Celtics. Toward the end of the conversation, they were discussing hypothetical trades and agreed that with the exception of Giannis and Anthony Davis, Tatum is untouchable in trade proposals... and that Brown was trending that way. (Lowe said "the Celtics can beat it [trade package for Kawhi] but the problem is Tatum has gotten too good... and Brown has almost gotten too good."

Flashback to August 2017... imagine knowing that by May 2018, both Tatum and Brown would be considered too good/valuable in a straight up trade for Kawhi Leonard!
I'm curious why the media keeps phrasing it this way, most analysts seem to have a similar take. I know Tatum is a year younger, but other than that Jaylen is a better defender and also more athletic. They can both shoot and get to the rim. They both have handling issues to fix in different ways. What more do people expect out of Jaylen to make a similar statement? He's been the second or third best player on the court in the ECF, only behind LeBron and maybe Horford.
 

teddykgb

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Brown feels like more of an opportunistic scorer, I think. Tatum flashes more of the “we are going iso and I’m going to drill the shot and there’s nothing you can do about it” offensive repertoire. Brown has some of this and is probably being underrated but I think Brown just doesn’t give off the vibe that he could be that high volume alpha scorer like Tatum does.

Brown deserves all the credit in the world for developing his handle well enough that he can explode to the rim more. At this point I wouldn’t bet against him but he’s still a more awkward player than Tatum who looks like he was born playing basketball
 

bosox79

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I think Jaylen Brown is going to be one of those players who is notoriously underrated, in large part because he plays next to Jayson Tatum. They are both special players and I think people downplay Jaylen's ceiling.

His FT shooting went back to shit in the playoffs though, I'd really like him to shoot at least 70% from the line because I have a feeling he is going to live there in a few years.
 

nighthob

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I'm curious why the media keeps phrasing it this way, most analysts seem to have a similar take. I know Tatum is a year younger, but other than that Jaylen is a better defender and also more athletic. They can both shoot and get to the rim. They both have handling issues to fix in different ways. What more do people expect out of Jaylen to make a similar statement? He's been the second or third best player on the court in the ECF, only behind LeBron and maybe Horford.
It's because Tatum is a more natural basketball player. Brown is a slightly better defender, but has much greater physical gifts and a year's experience on Jay Tay. Tatum just anticipates better on both ends of the ball. Tatum also shows more potential in terms of creating offense for others.

Brown will be, in a few years, one of the better second stars in the NBA. Tatum, on the other hand, has Durantesque upside.
 

bosox79

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It's because Tatum is a more natural basketball player. Brown is a slightly better defender, but has much greater physical gifts and a year's experience on Jay Tay. Tatum just anticipates better on both ends of the ball. Tatum also shows more potential in terms of creating offense for others.

Brown will be, in a few years, one of the better second stars in the NBA. Tatum, on the other hand, has Durantesque upside.
And this is why I think people underrate Jaylen's ceiling. I think he has a very small chance of becoming more than a 2nd star due to those physical gifts. He's extremely intelligent and works hard.

Tatum obviously has an even better chance of becoming that type of player though.
 

nighthob

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I mean I think Brown is going to be a top twentyish player these days, so I don't think I'm underrating him. I held very few of those hopes on draft night two years ago, but last summer got into a debate with Bowiac, amongst others, for making my mea culpa and saying that his rookie year compared favorably to Paul George's and Jimmy Butler's when you looked at his /36s.

It's just that when I talk about people being great first stars, they need to be able to score in the teeth of defenses entirely set up to stop them. And I'm not seeing that ability from Brown yet. But paired with Tatum he's going to be murdering opponents for years to come.
 

bosox79

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I mean I think Brown is going to be a top twentyish player these days, so I don't think I'm underrating him. I held very few of those hopes on draft night two years ago, but last summer got into a debate with Bowiac, amongst others, for making my mea culpa and saying that his rookie year compared favorably to Paul George's and Jimmy Butler's when you looked at his /36s.

It's just that when I talk about people being great first stars, they need to be able to score in the teeth of defenses entirely set up to stop them. And I'm not seeing that ability from Brown yet. But paired with Tatum he's going to be murdering opponents for years to come.
Not necessarily you, just in general. I have him as a future top 20-25 player with a very small outside chance of top 10 if things go incredibly right. He's a physical specimen.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I mean I think Brown is going to be a top twentyish player these days, so I don't think I'm underrating him. I held very few of those hopes on draft night two years ago, but last summer got into a debate with Bowiac, amongst others, for making my mea culpa and saying that his rookie year compared favorably to Paul George's and Jimmy Butler's when you looked at his /36s.

It's just that when I talk about people being great first stars, they need to be able to score in the teeth of defenses entirely set up to stop them. And I'm not seeing that ability from Brown yet. But paired with Tatum he's going to be murdering opponents for years to come.
I think if JB were playing with a terrible team, you'd see more of what he can do on offense. He obviously can post up a lot more than he does, and his mid-range game is promising because he jumps quicker and higher than most everyone. But he doesn't get opportunity to refine it because, well, the Cs have a bunch of options.

JB and JT have different ceilings but they are both very high and best of all, they compliment each other. Look forward to seeing them in green for the next six years or more.
 

mt8thsw9th

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Speaking of 2005, if you want to read the SoSH 2005 Celtics Draft Analysis, here you go:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sonsofsamhorn/celtics-05-draft-t3398.html#p3398

you can find such insights such as:



Not sure why Celts threads were in Members Only back then, but with insight like that, who could blame them?
To anyone who wants to read old Celtics threads from here, do yourself a favor and don't. This site was far and away one of the worst reads for Celtics-related stuffs, and its nadir was roughly 2002-2004 when everyone was trying to drive Ainge out on a rail for tearing apart that 49 win behemoth 2001-2002 team. Granted there were a small handful of posters who were pointing out the long game Ainge was playing, particularly in regards to spinning a bunch of shitty players into a cast that could finally support the one good player on that 2002 team.

There was a lot more bluster and noise than signal among that group, with the ringleader being fond of promising to eat logs of shit, and then not following through.
 

lexrageorge

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Even last year, at least a couple of posters were projecting Brown’s ceiling as a poor man’s Jae Crowder. I’d argue he’s passed that already.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I'm curious why the media keeps phrasing it this way, most analysts seem to have a similar take. I know Tatum is a year younger, but other than that Jaylen is a better defender and also more athletic. They can both shoot and get to the rim. They both have handling issues to fix in different ways. What more do people expect out of Jaylen to make a similar statement? He's been the second or third best player on the court in the ECF, only behind LeBron and maybe Horford.
Brown is older, more experienced, and has already had the benefit of that all important first NBA off-season.

Tatum is younger, less experienced, is less physically gifted/mature, and hasn’t yet had that first NBA offseason to work on his game and his strength.

Right now you can flip a coin over which one has been better in this playoffs. But there is no way on Gods green earth that Brown could have done what he is doing now a year ago.

Some of what Tatum needs to do to improve is pretty low hanging fruit. Get stronger, hold the ball better on drives. Doing just those things would make him markedly better than he is now.
 

Dotrat

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Mike Gorman offered an interesting hypothetical on T&R yesterday--in light of how well Brown,Tatum and the rest of the team are doing right now, would you try to deal Kyrie and Hayward for Anthony Davis? That this is not a crazy idea speaks to the extraordinary leaps Jaylen and Jayson (as well as Rozier) have made this season.
 

RedOctober3829

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Mike Gorman offered an interesting hypothetical on T&R yesterday--in light of how well Brown,Tatum and the rest of the team are doing right now, would you try to deal Kyrie and Hayward for Anthony Davis? That this is not a crazy idea speaks to the extraordinary leaps Jaylen and Jayson (as well as Rozier) have made this season.
No, it is a crazy idea.
 

Salem's Lot

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Mike Gorman offered an interesting hypothetical on T&R yesterday--in light of how well Brown,Tatum and the rest of the team are doing right now, would you try to deal Kyrie and Hayward for Anthony Davis? That this is not a crazy idea speaks to the extraordinary leaps Jaylen and Jayson (as well as Rozier) have made this season.
There is zero chance that Ainge is trading Gordon Hayward before he even plays one full NBA game after signing here. Plus he'd probably be looking for a new coach as well if he did that.
 

jmm57

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Putting aside any of the off court stuff and players feelings, I would strongly consider it. Condensing two max guys into one potentially gives you the ability to keep Smart and Terry. This current team + AD?
 

Jimbodandy

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Putting aside any of the off court stuff and players feelings, I would strongly consider it. Condensing two max guys into one potentially gives you the ability to keep Smart and Terry. This current team + AD?
No.

You don't give away dollars so you can fit more quarters in your pockets.

Edit: don't get me wrong, AD would be great to have. But I don't think that Smart and Rozier are part of the calculus.