Jaylen or Tatum?

[Jed Zeppelin]

Great post EJ. We talk about getting a summer to work on stuff and the importance of a year 2 or 3 leap with most rookies—Tatum is pulling out new tricks in the playoffs?!? The composure on these plays is amazing.

And he’s just going to keep getting better at measuring guys up, whether he’s setting up a jumper, driving to the rim, or drawing fouls and/or getting his man off the ground prematurely.

Combine all that with added strength, and surround him with absurdly good teammates...who guards him? Who guards anyone in that lineup?

Edit: And just to pile on, Hayward is not tradeable, mostly because he is PERFECT for this team.

 

[Marciano490]

That teardrop Tatum dropped in for 2 in the 3rd made me legitimately hard, and I'm not a guy who likes to admit to any kind of sexual deviance.

It’s not a deviance if everyone’s doing it.

 

[Koufax]

This comp is really not fair to Jaylen Brown, who is an excellent player. Jason Tatum is probably going to have a Paul Pierce type of career - so hard to compete with that.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

This comp is really not fair to Jaylen Brown, who is an excellent player. Jason Tatum is probably going to have a Paul Pierce type of career - so hard to compete with that.

The strides Brown has made from year 1 to year 2 are remarkable and he is also stepping up his game in the playoffs. The development of his shot, his ability to drive and finish through contact, and him having the athleticism to actually play a lot of minutes at SG. These are huge things. There are been a few games this year when the team has been in a funk and Jaylen has kind of held them in the game with his offense.

I think that for the long haul, these are 2 guys you build around.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

This comp is really not fair to Jaylen Brown, who is an excellent player. Jason Tatum is probably going to have a Paul Pierce type of career - so hard to compete with that.

Speaking of which, PP was absolutely gushing over Tatum's future in the post-game

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Speaking of which, PP was absolutely gushing over Tatum's future in the post-game

Come back to Boston, PP. You could probably teach Tatum a few things.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Come back to Boston, PP. You could probably teach Tatum a few things.

Honestly, it won't surprise me at all if he does some consulting work.

 

[DJnVa]

Per Brad, one of the play calls, late in a postseason game, on the road, was for the rookie to get the ball and drive, and make a play.

 

[DJnVa]

Edit: And just to pile on, Hayward is not tradeable, mostly because he is PERFECT for this team.

Can you imagine how much room Kyrie will have to operate with Al, Gordon, Tatum, and JB spacing the floor? It'll be obscene. You will be unable to to double off of any of them.

 

[DJnVa]

True, tied with David Robinson. Someone had 7.

Only one to do it age 20 or younger.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Can you imagine how much room Kyrie will have to operate with Al, Gordon, Tatum, and JB spacing the floor? It'll be obscene. You will be unable to to double off of any of them.

Next year during crunchtime, either Al Horford or Jaylen Brown will be the Celtics’ 5th option...

 

[Koufax]

OK, let's play analogy. Tatum is to Pierce as Brown is to ____________? For some reason Havelcik comes to mind. Someone who does everything very well.

 

[The Social Chair]

Brown is Iguodala with more range.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

True, tied with David Robinson. Someone had 7.

Could have sworn they said Lee Alcindor had 10 as a rookie. May have misheard tho.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Could have sworn they said Lee Alcindor had 10 as a rookie. May have misheard tho.

Lou was even better than Lee!
All 10 games as a rookie were over 20, and the first 9 were all 33 over more. He slumped to 27 in his 10th and final playoff game.

 

[bosockboy]

Lou was even better than Lee!
All 10 games as a rookie were over 20, and the first 9 were all 33 over more. He slumped to 27 in his 10th and final playoff game.

And Lew even better yet

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

And Lew even better yet

Nice!

 

[BaseballJones]

Tatum's last five playoff games:

22 points (6-14 fg), 3 reb, 3 ast, 2 steals
20 points (7-17 fg), 6 reb, 5 ast, 2 steals
28 points (8-16 fg), 3 reb, 2 ast, 0 steals
21 points (7-14 fg), 2 reb, 2 ast, 1 steal
24 points (11-17 fg), 5 reb, 4 ast, 1 steal

AVG: 23.0 points (7.8-15.6 fg, 50.0%), 3.8 reb, 3.0 ast, 1.2 steals

The kid is doing WORK.

Postseason stats so far (Brown's are skewed by the game where he got injured and left early):

Tatum: 18.1 points, 45.3% fg, 4.7 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.2 steals
Brown: 17.1 points, 46.6% fg, 5.1 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 1.0 steals

 

[uk_sox_fan]

This thread hurts every time I look at it. They are my two favourites on this team and there is no way Danny should even consider letting either of them go. (Not that I will ever presume to second-guess Danny on anything....)

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Tatum's last five playoff games:

22 points (6-14 fg), 3 reb, 3 ast, 2 steals
20 points (7-17 fg), 6 reb, 5 ast, 2 steals
28 points (8-16 fg), 3 reb, 2 ast, 0 steals
21 points (7-14 fg), 2 reb, 2 ast, 1 steal
24 points (11-17 fg), 5 reb, 4 ast, 1 steal

AVG: 23.0 points (7.8-15.6 fg, 50.0%), 3.8 reb, 3.0 ast, 1.2 steals

The kid is doing WORK.

The 2 numbers that stand out to me here are:

• The one you didn't show directly. He's getting to the line and (yesterday aside) hitting his free throws. 115 points on 39 made FGs is 2.9 points per attempt, and he hasn't shot great from 3 int he playoffs.
• The 3.0 assists per game. One of those was the ATO lob to Brown for a layup. Since late in the season he's been showing the ability to create for teammates. On a team with Irving, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Rozier, that's going to be an important ability.

Also, on the broadcast the commentators (BTW Doris Burke is an excellent analyst) were talking about Sixer attempts to trap Tatum and how easily he was able to pass out of those situations.

 

[nighthob]

Tonight should be the seventh straight 20 point game for Tatum.

 

[djbayko]

And counting.

I love how, not only we posters here, but the playoff announcers have been talking about Tatum as the obvious top offensive threat on the Celtics. This guy seems to thrive under pressure and I love it.

 

[TripleOT]

So a 20 and 21 year old just closed out a playoff opponent. 49 points on only 38 points, with Brown providing early offense in the he 4th, and Tatum closing it out with two big buckets at the rim, and 6-6 at the line.

 

[lovegtm]

Tatum's passing is starting to progress really rapidly; he had some great looks tonight, one or two of which the pass recipient didn't convert.

 

[Ale Xander]

Better choosing this than between Bender and Fultz.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Brown is Iguodala with more range.

If we can get 17 points, 5 boards, and 5 assists from Jaylen for his 23-28 season I'll be very happy. But I'd like even more because I'm fuckin greedy.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

So who was the last C to have 7 straight 20+ point games?

 

[Manzivino]

So who was the last C to have 7 straight 20+ point games?

In a single postseason? Reggie

 

[the moops]

In a single postseason? Reggie

Yep - Pierce did it most recently if we span two separate playoffs

 

[Jimbodandy]

Better choosing this than between Bender and Fultz.

This

 

[lovegtm]

Brown is Iguodala with more range.

Young Iguodala with a good 3-point shot would be a top-15 player.

 

[Euclis20]

Iguodala also became a very good playmaker early in his career, averaging 5.5 apg from ages 23-29. Brown is younger and will improve but at this point he's shown almost no ability to create good shots for others (1.6 apg this year).

 

[TripleOT]

Tatum has been working with Bradley Beal and their skills trainer Drew Hanlen, for years. He just surpassed Beal for most playoff points under age 21. JT tied Spider Mitchel for most consecutive 20 point playoff games at 20 or younger, seven, with only Jabbar ahead of him at 10. Tatum can set the record for most playoff points under age 21 if the ECF goes seven games, passing Kobe, who put up 328 in 28 playoff games before age 21.

Being able to step in at such a young age and be a big time playoff score is not something that happens often. Tatum is going to need to put up 20 ppg in the EFC, possibly with James covering him. The Cavs don't have a lot of rim protection, so Tatum's driving game should thrive if the Cs are moving the ball.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Tatum seemed to injure his hand midway through the game yesterday, and only attempted 1 jump shot the rest of the way, which he missed. Had several chances at a catch and shoot three, but always went with the uptake and drive.

Hopefully whatever issue he was having will get better with 3 days of rest.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Tatum seemed to injure his hand midway through the game yesterday, and only attempted 1 jump shot the rest of the way, which he missed. Had several chances at a catch and shoot three, but always went with the uptake and drive.

Hopefully whatever issue he was having will get better with 3 days of rest.

He addressed that in the press conference last night as there was a tape job on it. He said someone smacked it during the game but he's fine.

 

[uk_sox_fan]

Mildly concerning has been his 3p shooting in the playoffs. He's 14/45 .311 in the two series which is only marginally better than his worst 12-game stretch in the RS: 11/36 .306 from 24 Jan - 16 Feb. That's if you're going to pick nits...

 

[NickEsasky]

Mildly concerning has been his 3p shooting in the playoffs. He's 14/45 .311 in the two series which is only marginally better than his worst 12-game stretch in the RS: 11/36 .306 from 24 Jan - 16 Feb. That's if you're going to pick nits...

He's also been playing every other day in the playoffs after a full 82 game season as a rookie, his legs are probably tired. The more spread out schedule in the ECF should hopefully help improve his outside shooting.

 

[lovegtm]

Iguodala also became a very good playmaker early in his career, averaging 5.5 apg from ages 23-29. Brown is younger and will improve but at this point he's shown almost no ability to create good shots for others (1.6 apg this year).

Jaylen is definitely not a playmaker currently. He also has another 2 full years of playing before he enters his age 23 season, which is crazy. The drastic improvement in his team defense makes me optimistic that he can add passing, since both require a strong awareness of the developing texture of the court.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

He's also been playing every other day in the playoffs after a full 82 game season as a rookie, his legs are probably tired. The more spread out schedule in the ECF should hopefully help improve his outside shooting.

If he hit 18/45 instead of 14/45, he would be shooting .400. They are SSS.

 

[Euclis20]

Jaylen is definitely not a playmaker currently. He also has another 2 full years of playing before he enters his age 23 season, which is crazy. The drastic improvement in his team defense makes me optimistic that he can add passing, since both require a strong awareness of the developing texture of the court.

It wasn't meant as a knock on Brown so much as noting a real positive in Iguodala's game. As a 21 year old rookie Iguodala averaged 3 assists per game, still far better than Brown. Even if some aspects of their games are similar, one of Iguodala's greatest attributes has been always been making plays for others, something that Brown has thus far not shown any real skill at.

 

[NickEsasky]

If he hit 18/45 instead of 14/45, he would be shooting .400. They are SSS.

This is true. I also realized that there is just one stretch of 3 days between games but the rest of the series is normal so it might not matter anyway.

 

[uk_sox_fan]

If he hit 18/45 instead of 14/45, he would be shooting .400. They are SSS.

I acknowledge it's smallish - but turning 4 misses into makes is a pretty substantial difference. Even hitting his next 4 in a row puts him at a below average (for him) .367 and hitting 4 in a row isn't likely.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I acknowledge it's smallish - but turning 4 misses into makes is a pretty substantial difference. Even hitting his next 4 in a row puts him at a below average (for him) .367 and hitting 4 in a row isn't likely.

Check out Eric Gordon's month to month splits. The sample size is too small to mean anything.

 

[benhogan]

I acknowledge it's smallish - but turning 4 misses into makes is a pretty substantial difference. Even hitting his next 4 in a row puts him at a below average (for him) .367 and hitting 4 in a row isn't likely.

His 3pt shot looks a hair off in the playoffs vs reg season. The positive aspect to this is its encouraged Tatum to take it strong to the basket. He has an assortment of moves to the hoop and has been drawing more fouls. He is averaging 5.6 FT attempts in the post-season as opposed to 3.2 during the regular season. (SSS caveat aside)

Clearly, Tatum's offensive game has been improving during the playoffs. 7 straight games of 20 points or more. During the regular season he never had a streak of more than 2 games of 20pts or more.

Have we seen a more "complete" offensive player at this age? Tatum won't put up Durant numbers in his 2nd season, due to the team/players around him, but that's his potential upside.

 

[DJnVa]

Guess how many 19 or 20 year olds have averaged 18.8 ppg in the postseason in last 30 years: Two.

Name them:

Spoiler

Stephon Marbury in 96/97 (in only 3 games) and Tatum.

Also:


From Deadspin:

God help the Eastern Conference when someone this good becomes his team’s third option next year.

 

[amarshal2]

Someone more familiar with the tools than me -- I wonder how much of Tatums 3pt shooting is a difference in catch and shoot vs ball in hand. When he was at a very high percentage earlier in the year a lot of those threes were assisted spot up shots. His three point release on those shots looks a bit slow but then he's money. Without the time to shoot he hesitates. In the playoffs he's been a primary playmaker and hasn't had as many open spot up assisted opportunities and instead has been shooting off the dribble.

I think one of the top things for his off-season list is working on shooting 3s off the dribble and/or with a step back.

 

[Saints Rest]

From Deadspin:God help the Eastern Conference when someone this good becomes his team’s third option next year.

Scarier when you think that Jaylen Brown might be only the Celtics' 5th best player next year.

 

[DJnVa]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/names/2018/05/10/that-time-jayson-tatum-asked-lebron-follow-him-twitter/8tsBKHNWQz64WSqkaLZ51H/story.html

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Nice article on Tatum from the Ringer

With Tatum having proved his dedication, the pair got down to the nitty-gritty immediately with a week of jab-step work. Tatum’s favorite player, Kobe, served a dual role as the inspiration and the study material.

“As a 13-year-old, to not be shooting jump shots, not be working on a bunch of one-on-one moves, not be working on a bunch of dribbling drills that might look cool on social media,” Hanlen says, “for him to be sitting in the gym and for a week straight, [doing] two-a-days of just jab work, it just shows you how he handled himself as a young kid.”

 

[Cellar-Door]

Scarier when you think that Jaylen Brown might be only the Celtics' 5th best player next year.

He already is, he might be 6tg by the all-star break if they get the 2 or 3 in the lottery