Jaylen Brown's 2020-21 Season

Jimbodandy

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I'd like Brown to be a Top 15 NBA player (All NBA) by the playoffs, but man his defense :rolleyes:

See #8 & 9 video clips

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/2/12/22280081/boston-three-party-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-toronto-raptors
The communication is still shit. Brown had two of those this game and last. Tatum had one each game IIRC. Grant has had issues with handoffs with Thompson too, multiple times. I'm not at all blaming Thompson. Honestly not qualified to say what's happening there.

Saw it a lot with the Pats this year in the secondary too, and similarly unqualified to diagnose. Wish the coaches recapped this stuff post-game. I'd watch just for that.
 

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benhogan

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8 looks like it's as much on Thompson as Brown. 9 is just pathetic effort by Tatum. I'm not a fan of Brown's D, but those two clips are hardly indictable evidence.
Both are on Brown. The Celtics switch and help. That's why they were tagged and TT barked at him.

I love me some Jaylen Brown but he has a lot of room for improvement on the defensive side of the floor. Especially with his help and zone D
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Both are on Brown. The Celtics switch and help. That's why they were tagged and TT barked at him.

I love me some Jaylen Brown but he has a lot of room for improvement on the defensive side of the floor. Especially with his help and zone D
8 might be substantially JB's fault - hard to say not knowing what the coverages are. JB correctly directs FVV away from the pick and is communicating with TT. It looks like as JB & TT were handing FVV off, JB was pivoting to guard Boucher at the 3P line when Boucher cut to the basket. Note that GW didn't come off his man to stop the drive or take a charge. It could very well be that JB opened up early and he should stop the pocket pass but Boucher takes a lot more shots from 3P land rather than mid-range so I can see the thinking that JB needs to get back to 3P line.

I also disagree with #9. BOS switches on screens but Lowry wasn't using a screen, he was just cutting. IIRC Scal said that KL usually flares on that action but this time went to the basket.JB didn't make a move so I doubt he was supposed to switch. Also, I doubt the JT is supposed to be trailing that far behind KL.

Of course we'll never know.

This is also why it;s super difficult to create advanced defensive stats.
 

benhogan

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Tatum* shouldn't be that far behind KL, that's fair. But if Brown doesn't move when Kyle Lowry has 2-steps on JT & sees KL right in front of him, then I don't like it. Good help defenders naturally switch/slide over.

Are there any adv defensive metrics that point to Brown being as good on defense as the NBA media portrays him? I find it odd that they lavish Jaylen with so much defensive praise.

Obviously, we all love Brown, he's an absolute terror on offense. BUT to my eye, he's below average at help and gets confused in zone. His negative DBPM over his career, & last 2+ seasons sort of indicate that too.

*Tatum has not covered himself in glory on the defensive side of the ball this season either.
 

benhogan

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8 might be substantially JB's fault - hard to say not knowing what the coverages are. JB correctly directs FVV away from the pick and is communicating with TT. It looks like as JB & TT were handing FVV off, JB was pivoting to guard Boucher at the 3P line when Boucher cut to the basket. Note that GW didn't come off his man to stop the drive or take a charge. It could very well be that JB opened up early and he should stop the pocket pass but Boucher takes a lot more shots from 3P land rather than mid-range so I can see the thinking that JB needs to get back to 3P line.
agreed on #8 Grant should have come over (helped). It was probably too late for him to take a charge. But he has to go for the physical, hard block. I don't care about his fouls as long as he doesn't give up anything easy at the rim. Grant's defense has been very inconsistent this season (the nicest way to put it)
 

chilidawg

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Are there any adv defensive metrics that point to Brown being as good on defense as the NBA media portrays him? I find it odd that they lavish Jaylen with so much defensive praise.

Obviously, we all love Brown, he's an absolute terror on offense. BUT to my eye, he's below average at help and gets confused in zone. His negative DBPM over his career, & last 2+ seasons sort of indicate that too.
Both Raptor and RPM have Brown and Tatum at about neutral defensively, which isn't bad for guys carrying most of the offensive load. Brown was about the same last year, Tatum much better.
 

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Jaylen out tonite against Washington because of knee soreness. I'm not holding my breath, but I really hope he sits out the All-Star game to rest his knee.
 

benhogan

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Jaylen out tonite against Washington because of knee soreness. I'm not holding my breath, but I really hope he sits out the All-Star game to rest his knee.
+1. He should have many more All-Star, Olympic, World Cup games he can play in...

For February, Brown shot 44.3% from the field & 30.9% from 3. Both well below his season/career averages. The knee has clearly been an issue. Tatum post-COVID February has been worse.
 
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NomarsFool

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It’s in his hometown, so as long as he only plays less than 20 minutes - it’s probably fine. Just no Kemba triple OT performances like last year.
 

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It’s in his hometown, so as long as he only plays less than 20 minutes - it’s probably fine. Just no Kemba triple OT performances like last year.
Jaylen wouldn’t be targeted with any more than that anyway but yeah, this game is in his backyard.....he’d have to lose a leg to miss it.
 

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With the Raptors game now looking in doubt because of their COVID issues, I would hope Jaylen gets held out of the Clippers game which would give him 2 full weeks off, less whatever he plays in the ASG.

This team will need healthy, effective JB if they hope to make any sort of noise this year, and giving him an extended rest would seem to be the best way to maximize the chances of this happening.
 

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+1. He should have many more All-Star, Olympic, World Cup games he can play in...

For February, Brown shot 44.3% from the field & 30.9% from 3. Both well below his season/career averages. The knee has clearly been an issue. Tatum post-COVID February has been worse.
Could have just been a regression/ball-luck month too, but I'm right there with you on babying JB. Both he and JT look pretty fatigued lately. Carrying the team will do that to you, Kemba's recent resurgence notwithstanding. Nevermind battling injury and evil virus.
 

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Could have just been a regression/ball-luck month too, but I'm right there with you on babying JB. Both he and JT look pretty fatigued lately. Carrying the team will do that to you, Kemba's recent resurgence notwithstanding. Nevermind battling injury and evil virus.
JB hasn't looked right since the knee injury. He's been falling all over the court. It looked like fatigue but could very well be the knee (which would be worse). Even if he plays in the All-Star game I'd look to extend his time off. Just live with the results, next man up.
 

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The ASG should be like, 20 minutes of guys going 20%. I'm not worried at all about Brown participating if he is healthy enough to play regular season games. If he does have a chronic knee issue, we are fucked anyway.
 

Jimbodandy

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JB hasn't looked right since the knee injury. He's been falling all over the court. It looked like fatigue but could very well be the knee (which would be worse). Even if he plays in the All-Star game I'd look to extend his time off. Just live with the results, next man up.
Yeah no argument here. The timing is real.

Just saying that some regression from his hot start isn't surprising anyway, and I'm the biggest Jaylenstan there is.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Could have just been a regression/ball-luck month too, but I'm right there with you on babying JB. Both he and JT look pretty fatigued lately. Carrying the team will do that to you, Kemba's recent resurgence notwithstanding. Nevermind battling injury and evil virus.
When you see what Beal did to us last night in his 6th city in 9 nights it should really put to bed any talk of Tatum and Jaylen being fatigued especially since they’ve each recently had some time off. Basketball players bodies, especially young basketball players bodies, are trained to play every day.
 

Jimbodandy

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When you see what Beal did to us last night in his 6th city in 9 nights it should really put to bed any talk of Tatum and Jaylen being fatigued especially since they’ve each recently had some time off. Basketball players bodies, especially young basketball players bodies, are trained to play every day.
Yeah I hear you. The contrast was there for me to see too.

But Brad is in his 9th year and didn't have to learn how to carry a team until John Wall died. He's a pro's pro, like Butler et al.

I expect more clock punching efficiency out of Beal than guys on their rookie deals. whether they're all stars or not.

Fake edit: JB is now 31 games into his second contract. Point stands. They still have learning to do.
 

128

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Yeah I hear you. The contrast was there for me to see too.

But Brad is in his 9th year and didn't have to learn how to carry a team until John Wall died. He's a pro's pro, like Butler et al.

I expect more clock punching efficiency out of Beal than guys on their rookie deals. whether they're all stars or not.

Fake edit: JB is now 31 games into his second contract. Point stands. They still have learning to do.
Jaylen has a knee injury, and Jayson is still getting over COVID. We're talking apples and oranges here.
 

Jimbodandy

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Jaylen has a knee injury, and Jayson is still getting over COVID. We're talking apples and oranges here.
We are. And I agree with you and others that these physical hurdles are the likely causes for dropoffs in play.

I'm also saying that a ninth year pro like Beal is likely to have superior physical and mental stamina than 4th and 5th year players, especially guys who have gone deep into the playoffs every year.

That's not a knock on them. It's kudos to a guy like Beal. Guy is a fucking machine, but he had to develop those skills too.
 

Scoops Bolling

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When you see what Beal did to us last night in his 6th city in 9 nights it should really put to bed any talk of Tatum and Jaylen being fatigued especially since they’ve each recently had some time off. Basketball players bodies, especially young basketball players bodies, are trained to play every day.
Tatum has made clear he's had issues with his aerobic conditioning since COVID, and that should put to bed any talk of Tatum not being legitimately fatigued even if he's recently had time off. COVID patients' hearts and lungs, even young professional athletes, don't necessarily bounce back immediately. That may not be quite as much the case with Jaylen, but lingering knee issues can take time to heal up even for young athletes, and an extended period off is likely to be beneficial. This is some old school "take a salt tablet" style bullshit.
 

fairlee76

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When you see what Beal did to us last night in his 6th city in 9 nights it should really put to bed any talk of Tatum and Jaylen being fatigued especially since they’ve each recently had some time off. Basketball players bodies, especially young basketball players bodies, are trained to play every day.
All I will say in Tatum's defense is that my post-COVID road back to full-ish cardiovascular health took about two months. The few long hikes/spin rides I did during that time frame were excruciating in a "will I ever be able to breathe right again" way. JT obviously has the benefit of the best sports medicine and tech in the world, but there is definitely a significant recovery that has to happen for him. Probably a fairly pronounced mental component too in terms of his wondering when he'll be right again.

Beal was a treat to behold last night even though I did not have the 6th game in 9 nights context in mind. Even more impressive!
 

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All I will say in Tatum's defense is that my post-COVID road back to full-ish cardiovascular health took about two months. The few long hikes/spin rides I did during that time frame were excruciating in a "will I ever be able to breathe right again" way. JT obviously has the benefit of the best sports medicine and tech in the world, but there is definitely a significant recovery that has to happen for him. Probably a fairly pronounced mental component too in terms of his wondering when he'll be right again.

Beal was a treat to behold last night even though I did not have the 6th game in 9 nights context in mind. Even more impressive!
My post on the Celtics players needing rest included the Covid disclaimer for Tatum so I don’t disagree with you here. Good to hear you’re recovered
 

Deathofthebambino

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My post on the Celtics players needing rest included the Covid disclaimer for Tatum so I don’t disagree with you here. Good to hear you’re recovered
Are we even sure Beal didn't have COVID like a month and a half ago? The Wizards were playing their 6th game in 9 days because they had a bunch of games postponed due to 6-7 players testing positive, if I'm not mistaken? As far as I know, other than Ish Smith, it's never been revealed which of the players had it though.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Are we even sure Beal didn't have COVID like a month and a half ago? The Wizards were playing their 6th game in 9 days because they had a bunch of games postponed due to 6-7 players testing positive, if I'm not mistaken? As far as I know, other than Ish Smith, it's never been revealed which of the players had it though.
Beal did play one game following the Celtics after sitting one due to tracing and put up 34/9/8 prior to the team being shut down for 10 days. Then he returned to avg 35ppg over the next 7.

So if Beal did have Covid he seems to be Teflon to the aftereffects. Of course we know that everyone responds differently so who knows.
 

lovegtm

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People are probably going to freak out about Jaylen playing 15 mins in the All-Star Game rather than resting for a week, but I think this might be good. His knee looks fine now, the game itself isn’t stressful, and I’m guessing chilling with buddies for a week could be a nice break from the mental grind of the season.
 

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People are probably going to freak out about Jaylen playing 15 mins in the All-Star Game rather than resting for a week, but I think this might be good. His knee looks fine now, the game itself isn’t stressful, and I’m guessing chilling with buddies for a week could be a nice break from the mental grind of the season.
Not to mention the fact that it's gotta be validating to be selected and play in an actual all star game. For a guy whose been open about losing confidence in his play in the past, getting to be on this stage could be invigorating.
 

lovegtm

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Not to mention the fact that it's gotta be validating to be selected and play in an actual all star game. For a guy whose been open about losing confidence in his play in the past, getting to be on this stage could be invigorating.
Exactly. It also seems, based on his postgame quotes all year, that he’s been putting a ton of pressure on himself this year, understandably. Validation+chill seems like a good cure for that.

View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1367667867886489601?s=20
 

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It was a bit ironic for me as just a few days ago I was defending JB's FT shooting to a friend of mine, and he goes out and he sets a career high in attempts, but misses 5 of them.
 

lovegtm

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It was a bit ironic for me as just a few days ago I was defending JB's FT shooting to a friend of mine, and he goes out and he sets a career high in attempts, but misses 5 of them.
Tatum was 6/10 too...time to trade all them bums!
 

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Is Brown ok? Seems like he is getting beat ALOT on Defense. He has never been a great team defender like Tatum (who is slacking but thats a post for another day), but he was just behind Smart (who hasnt been great, but thats a post for another day) when it came to on ball D.

This year it seems like he is getting blown by on a regular basis. Am I wrong?

When all 3 of your "best" defenders, aren't... its not good.

Brown getting his defense on track would be a good start.
 

Euclis20

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Is Brown ok? Seems like he is getting beat ALOT on Defense. He has never been a great team defender like Tatum (who is slacking but thats a post for another day), but he was just behind Smart (who hasnt been great, but thats a post for another day) when it came to on ball D.

This year it seems like he is getting blown by on a regular basis. Am I wrong?

When all 3 of your "best" defenders, aren't... its not good.

Brown getting his defense on track would be a good start.
When your three best defenders happen to also be your three most important offensive players (though Smart has slipped behind Kemba when they are both healthy) it's a recipe for trouble. Of the three Brown's responsibilities on offense have increased the most, it makes a lot of sense that his defense would slip accordingly. It's the kind of thing that you hope he (and Tatum/Smart) figure out in time for the playoffs, but who knows.
 

NomarsFool

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I think they are still really young players, and have been trying to grow a lot in a lot of different areas. Brown has taken a big leap this year in terms of offensive production, and trying to be a creator, and also trying to be team leader. That's a lot for someone who is 24 years old.
 

benhogan

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Finally!

Good to see the contested, fadeaway 2s will lessen.

For all those posters that were tired of the go solo/get mine/genius coma ISO/5 seconds of between the leg dribbles at the top sounds like Brown/Tatum/Kemba have been told to knock it off (probably after the UTAH shot profile)

https://theathletic.com/2470812/2021/03/23/jaylen-brown-celtics-still-making-adjustments-after-ot-loss-to-grizzlies/?source=dailyemail

Brown has shot the deep ball more frequently lately — and it’s by design. In search of a formula to break them out of a long slump, the Celtics have asked the high-scoring wing to modify his shot selection. They want Brown to shoot more layups and 3-pointers, with fewer of his beloved midrange jumpers sprinkled in. That may seem like a counterintuitive request as Brown has been great from the midrange. His success from that distance helped push him into the All-Star Game for the first time. Still, the Celtics want him to tweak his habits.

Why would the Celtics ask Brown to change his style? He entered Tuesday night in the 80th percentile at his position with 45 percent shooting on all non-rim 2-pointers, according to Cleaning the Glass. On shots outside of 14 feet, but inside the 3-point arc, he has been even more effective at 48 percent. When factoring in his volume from that range and the degree of difficulty, he has been one of the NBA’s better 2-point jump shooters. It’s a skill he has obviously worked diligently to develop over the years. It’s a range where he feels comfortable. Still, in a league bending more and more toward the most efficient looks, the Boston coaching staff wants Brown to focus on getting better shots. Not just for himself, but for the team.
 

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Finally!

Good to see the contested, fadeaway 2s will lessen.

For all those posters that were tired of the go solo/get mine/genius coma ISO/5 seconds of between the leg dribbles at the top sounds like Brown/Tatum/Kemba have been told to knock it off (probably after the UTAH shot profile)

https://theathletic.com/2470812/2021/03/23/jaylen-brown-celtics-still-making-adjustments-after-ot-loss-to-grizzlies/?source=dailyemail

Brown has shot the deep ball more frequently lately — and it’s by design. In search of a formula to break them out of a long slump, the Celtics have asked the high-scoring wing to modify his shot selection. They want Brown to shoot more layups and 3-pointers, with fewer of his beloved midrange jumpers sprinkled in. That may seem like a counterintuitive request as Brown has been great from the midrange. His success from that distance helped push him into the All-Star Game for the first time. Still, the Celtics want him to tweak his habits.

Why would the Celtics ask Brown to change his style? He entered Tuesday night in the 80th percentile at his position with 45 percent shooting on all non-rim 2-pointers, according to Cleaning the Glass. On shots outside of 14 feet, but inside the 3-point arc, he has been even more effective at 48 percent. When factoring in his volume from that range and the degree of difficulty, he has been one of the NBA’s better 2-point jump shooters. It’s a skill he has obviously worked diligently to develop over the years. It’s a range where he feels comfortable. Still, in a league bending more and more toward the most efficient looks, the Boston coaching staff wants Brown to focus on getting better shots. Not just for himself, but for the team.
I don't have any problem with 10-16, but 16-23 should be a benchable offense for everyone at this point. I'm glad that they're focusing more on it.

Fake edit: not really benching, but you know what I mean.
 

benhogan

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I don't have any problem with 10-16, but 16-23 should be a benchable offense for everyone at this point. I'm glad that they're focusing more on it.

Fake edit: not really benching, but you know what I mean.
You'd think 2 guys in the 3pt contest, Tatum/Brown, would be giddy with this type of analysis.

The math nerd in me wants them to stay with the script: Rim/3s/move the ball

I think those "inefficient" shots lead to Tatum/Brown dribbling into crowded areas of the floor. Maybe the new mindset will lead to fewer turnovers, less uncontested transition points for opponents, quicker ball movement, and assists/hockey assists?

I know the narrative around here is nobody else on the team is capable of scoring. This is true, if you stick a player in the corner, make him a potted plant and the basketball rarely reaches them with time left on the shot clock.

All of this is secondary if they continue to exhibit their crappy brand of defense
 
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NomarsFool

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To me, it looked like Brown was forcing things a bit last night. It seemed there were a lot of possessions where hardly anyone else touched the ball. For example, it seemed there were a lot of possessions where Nesmith never even touched the ball. Maybe he wasn't in a good position - I'm not arguing that - I am just observing that it's hard to fault a guy for not shooting if no one ever passes him the ball.
 

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You'd think 2 guys in the 3pt contest, Tatum/Brown, would be giddy with this type of analysis.

The math nerd in me wants them to stay with the script: Rim/3s/move the ball

I think those "inefficient" shots lead to Tatum/Brown dribbling into crowded areas of the floor. Maybe the new mindset will lead to fewer turnovers, less uncontested transition points for opponents, quicker ball movement, and assists/hockey assists?

I know the narrative around here is nobody else on the team is capable of scoring. This is true, if you stick a player in the corner, make him a potted plant and the basketball rarely reaches them with time left on the shot clock.

All of this is secondary if they continue to exhibit their crappy brand of defense
Yeah all of this is accurate.

Not having played hoop at anywhere near a professional level is not a hindrance to having some idea of the interpersonal relationships involved here. The Jays want to be alphas, see themselves as alphas, and the org wants to encourage that. But some point, they have to buy in that no man is an island, and the team has to set direction as to how we're going to play. Clearly there has been a focus put on distribution, to decent results this year.

Brad has made it a point not to stifle a player's confidence by quick hook or criticism of a suboptimal shot. But at the end of the day, this isn't Butler, and you have to start putting up some guardrails. They're not kids anymore (the Jays at least). That 20 foot jumper is a bad shot and worse, a lazy one.
 

slamminsammya

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To me, it looked like Brown was forcing things a bit last night. It seemed there were a lot of possessions where hardly anyone else touched the ball. For example, it seemed there were a lot of possessions where Nesmith never even touched the ball. Maybe he wasn't in a good position - I'm not arguing that - I am just observing that it's hard to fault a guy for not shooting if no one ever passes him the ball.
Its a chicken and egg problem - maybe they aren't passing to him because every time he gets the ball he seems scared to do anything but get rid of it asap.
 

benhogan

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Yeah all of this is accurate.

Not having played hoop at anywhere near a professional level is not a hindrance to having some idea of the interpersonal relationships involved here. The Jays want to be alphas, see themselves as alphas, and the org wants to encourage that. But some point, they have to buy in that no man is an island, and the team has to set direction as to how we're going to play. Clearly there has been a focus put on distribution, to decent results this year.

Brad has made it a point not to stifle a player's confidence by quick hook or criticism of a suboptimal shot. But at the end of the day, this isn't Butler, and you have to start putting up some guardrails. They're not kids anymore (the Jays at least). That 20 foot jumper is a bad shot and worse, a lazy one.
Plus JB's really good at being a high-volume 3pt shooter (and getting better). Butler can only dream of being the 3pt shooter Jaylen is.

Jaylen's handle has improved a lot, works great in transition but still needs work in the halfcourt (same with Tatum). Very confident they'll get there but looking forward to them not forcing it the rest of this season.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Plus JB's really good at being a high-volume 3pt shooter (and getting better). Butler can only dream of being the 3pt shooter Jaylen is.

Jaylen's handle has improved a lot, works great in transition but still needs work in the halfcourt (same with Tatum). Very confident they'll get there but looking forward to them not forcing it the rest of this season.
lol. Butler University.
 

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Jaylen averaging 25.3/6.4/2.6 on a 60% TS since the ASB. His usage has been down a bit, and they have been using him much less an an initiator, but it’s benefited both him and the offense.

He’s an elite play finisher, and they’ve been playing to that more over the last 6 weeks or so.